The 2013 Canadian Grand Prix Thread

[good_Ralf]

Bottas set the 14th fastest lap of the race (1.8 seconds off the best), which is the same as his finishing position. I'm saying this so that everyone knows how crap the Williams was today.

By the way, di Resta has exactly double the points of Sutil (34 vs 17). Only a catastrophic end-of-season slump a la 2012 can stop him from being best of the rest now.

[pasta_maldonado]

The champagne song

It's Georges Bizet to you, mister.

Ah, so that's what it's called

[lgaquino]

The degree of expertise on here is incredible

yeah, I learned a lot on the past few months...welcome!

Vettel getting booed on the podium restored my faith in humanity, and the F1 viewing public.

That I don't like. One thing I've always admired in F1 was that, unlike in football, the level of respect towards the sportsmen were high.. even if the victorious one was not your favourite.
But it's not the same anymore... People were booing hamilton the last time he won in Monza. I thought that was really sad. such an epic place to win and you get booed because you're not a ferrari driver ?! shame

[Frentzen127]

The champagne song

It's Georges Bizet to you, mister.

Ah, so that's what it's called

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTMIPQWKzOU

[Salamander]

Vettel getting booed on the podium restored my faith in humanity, and the F1 viewing public.

That I don't like. One thing I've always admired in F1 was that, unlike in football, the level of respect towards the sportsmen were high.. even if the victorious one was not your favourite.

I'm sorry, what sport are we talking about? I'm pretty sure that stuff has been around since the Schumacher-era at the very least.

[lgaquino]

Vettel getting booed on the podium restored my faith in humanity, and the F1 viewing public.

That I don't like. One thing I've always admired in F1 was that, unlike in football, the level of respect towards the sportsmen were high.. even if the victorious one was not your favourite.

I'm sorry, what sport are we talking about? I'm pretty sure that stuff has been around since the Schumacher-era at the very least.

Never noticed to be honest. Back then all I could see was the local coverage, that never shut up and ended immediately after the podium cerimony. Nowadays I get to watch the BBC/Sky coverage, which quite simply shows a lot more..

[PT8475]

The champagne song

It's Georges Bizet to you, mister.

Its the overture to his Carmen opera to you, mister.

[PT8475]

Vettel getting booed on the podium restored my faith in humanity, and the F1 viewing public.

Really? It made me feel slightly sick. I don't want F1 to go the way of the bloody football, where they all hold some deep-seated hatred for anyone who appears in any other team, no matter whether they've done anything wrong or not.

[Paul Hayes]

Oh dear, what a disappointing Canada!

[Ataxia]

Booing drivers is NOT on. Vettel's a 3-time champion; whether you think he's deserved it or not is out of the question, because he's the man who's strung it together three years in a row. He deserves at least a modicum of respect from the fans.

I didn't enjoy that race a lot; I missed from lap 45-55 because my laptop decided it didn't want to be on any more...so once I got the show back on I'd lost track of stuff.

[QuickYoda41]

I can safely say that I've never seen a Canadian GP this boring. Where the hell did those extreme differences come from? Is this going to be the norm with the harder Pirellis?

[Dan B]

Oh dear, what a disappointing Canada!

Canada is either really good or really disappointing. Sadly it seems it was the latter.

Also, Like this is gonna change anything.

[James1978]

It always seriously makes me laugh when a Caterham or Marussia driver gets a grid penalty but it being so inconsequential; but then again maybe it's a way of neutralising the fact that maybe they shouldn't be getting these penalties (though I agree with the one for the Webber collision but not the Hulkenberg one).

[kevinbotz]

I was pretty disappointed in the home fans when they booed Vettel on the podium. Slightly ashamed for my fellow Canadian fans who decided to forego all etiquette and decorum for what was really just sheer pettiness.

I actually found the race to be fairly entertaining. Yes, Vettel romped away to victory again, but there was plenty of action in the midfield (at least in the first half of the race), and there were certain battles in the front that caught my eye (Webber and Alonso on Rosberg, Hamilton and Alonso for 2nd).

[PT8475]

Oh dear, what a disappointing Canada!

Canada is either really good or really disappointing. Sadly it seems it was the latter.

Also, Like this is gonna change anything.

Wait, no penalty for Webber collision, and penalty for the Hülkenburg one?

[Dan B]

Oh dear, what a disappointing Canada!

Canada is either really good or really disappointing. Sadly it seems it was the latter.

Also, Like this is gonna change anything.

Wait, no penalty for Webber collision, and penalty for the Hülkenburg one?

I'm guessing the penalty for the Webber collision was the Stop-Go Van de Garde had to serve.

[JJMonty]

Tragic news coming in during the aftermath of the race

http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/C ... story.html

[kevinbotz]

Tragic news coming in during the aftermath of the race

http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/C ... story.html

Wow...

My condolences to his family.

[Meatwad]

Tragic news coming in during the aftermath of the race

http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/C ... story.html

Rest in peace. It's very sad that three marshals have died in just over a decade.

[JJMonty]

The ironic thing is that Brundle was very critical about the crane being brought out - suggesting it would be easier, safer and less hassle to just leave the car there due to there being only 3/4 laps left. In his words "The car is out of danger, you are only going to hit it if you actually aim for it!" Had they of done that, then this poor chap wouldn't have been involved in the accident

[shinji]

The champagne song

It's Georges Bizet to you, mister.

Its the overture to his Carmen opera to you, mister.

Ya, I know. Just thought Bizet should be treated with a bit more respect than having his music referred to as 'The champagne song'!

[eytl]

The ironic thing is that Brundle was very critical about the crane being brought out - suggesting it would be easier, safer and less hassle to just leave the car there due to there being only 3/4 laps left. In his words "The car is out of danger, you are only going to hit it if you actually aim for it!" Had they of done that, then this poor chap wouldn't have been involved in the accident

Yes. I completely agreed with Brundle when I saw what was going on. Especially when the crane driver decided to take a straight line towards the Sauber, which brought it within a metre of the track, instead of following the curve of the tyre wall right away from the track.

Undoubtedly this incident is awfully tragic and I think I speak on behalf of everyone on this forum when we extend our deepest condolences to the track worker's family and friends.

At the same time, one has to ask questions about the training for the Canadian marshals. This incident was needless not only for the crane being sent out, but also if indeed the poor gentleman involved was merely trying to retrieve a radio. Let's not forget the slipping marshal two years ago who earned ROTR. As I commented at the time, he appeared to have been inappropriately dressed, and that incident could also have been a very tragic incident.

[Ed24]

Whilst the Brundle comments were an eerie omen to what happened, they were separate incidents as the incident occurred as they were taking the car back to the pits (the incident happened half way down the pit exit based on the photo I saw) - something that would have happened regardless of what they did during the race. To be honest it just looked like incredibly bad luck.

[CoopsII]

At the same time, one has to ask questions about the training for the Canadian marshals.

Apparently, this poor guy had been a marshall for ten years. It really looks like a flukey unfortunate accident, a real shame.

[mario]

Whilst the Brundle comments were an eerie omen to what happened, they were separate incidents as the incident occurred as they were taking the car back to the pits (the incident happened half way down the pit exit based on the photo I saw) - something that would have happened regardless of what they did during the race. To be honest it just looked like incredibly bad luck.

It's added a rather sombre note to proceedings but, as you say, under the circumstances it looks like it was a momentary, and unfortunate, lapse in concentration that lead up to that accident.
That said, I am a little surprised that they were using a piece of plant like that to move the car, given that sort of equipment does not have the best line of sight and required the marshals to be in very close proximity to stabilise the car - I was under the impression that was why most venues preferred to use a flat bed truck to move damaged cars around.

[CoopsII]

Vettel getting booed on the podium restored my faith in humanity, and the F1 viewing public.

That I don't like. One thing I've always admired in F1 was that, unlike in football, the level of respect towards the sportsmen were high.. even if the victorious one was not your favourite.

I'm sorry, what sport are we talking about? I'm pretty sure that stuff has been around since the Schumacher-era at the very least.

Austria 2002 aside, and then it was Ferrari as a team that was being boo'd, I dont recall any specific incidents of mass booing like we witnessed from those idiotic Canadians yesterday. The closest thing I remember was those even-more idiotic fellow Brits cheering when MSC crashed at Silverstone 1999. Morons.

And, yes, the football (or Soccer) comparison was one I considered too. I hope its not the way things are heading, perhaps those folks yesterday had drunk a little too many Molsons or something. Either way they should take a leaf out of the Tifosi at Monza, when Ferrari get beaten there they dont boo, whine or piss they just go home

[johnnyCarwash]

At the same time, one has to ask questions about the training for the Canadian marshals.

Apparently, this poor guy had been a marshall for ten years. It really looks like a flukey unfortunate accident, a real shame.

I was also suprised at the decision to remove the car at that point too, but slipping under the crane is a sad way to perish. R.I.P. to the marshall.

I hope the canadian marshalls association can ensure that such an accident doesn't happen again. And considering the marshall who fell over two years ago, thankfully that was just hillarious and not tragic like yesterday.


On a more positive note:
I missed about 40 laps of the race (between 20 and 60) and seems from comments on here that the only thing I missed of note was Van der Garde having a couple of interesting moments.

[good_Ralf]

Anyone know why Sutil has the flag of Uruguay on his helmet?

Hes half Uruguayan, I think his father.

Compatriot Frentzen's mother is Spanish, by the way.

[Alextrax52]

I remember at the end of the 2011 race that when Vettel got the 2nd place trophy everyone just booed him throughout. I was even convinced that some of the Mclaren team did it as well only to get their butts handed to them when Hamilton and Button finished 40 secs and 1 minute behind Vettel at Europe. I don't get why no one in Canada likes Vettel. Did he do something to the country?

[good_Ralf]

Did he do something to the country?

I think the Canadians are against German champions overall given what Schumi did to Villeneuve in Jerez '97. From the moment he turned into the Williams, people in Canada felt betrayed in some way and might think Vettel is linked to Schumacher.

[Shadaza]

Did he do something to the country?

I think the Canadians are against German champions overall given what Schumi did to Villeneuve in Jerez '97. From the moment he turned into the Williams, people in Canada felt betrayed in some way and might think Vettel is linked to Schumacher.

I think booing other athletes is disgraceful, especially if the only reason is that they beat your athlete. Booing dirty competitors maybe, but this isn't wrestling and I hope I won't hear any booing should Vettel win Silverstone.

It seems there were an awful lot of Ferrari fans at the race so hopefully the booing was just because Vettel isn't wearing red rather than any personal attack.

Such sad news about the marshall, the marshalling in Canada over the last few years has been a little suspect but nobody should expect such a tragic accident .

[CoopsII]

I think the Canadians are against German champions overall given what Schumi did to Villeneuve in Jerez '97. From the moment he turned into the Williams, people in Canada felt betrayed in some way and might think Vettel is linked to Schumacher.

Betrayed? Their guy won the championship half an hour later, if thats true then its a crap excuse, as is involving a compatriot.

[Eifelland]

How are there so many tifosi in Canada? Is it just because of Gilles, or a latin-based sense of kinship with Ferrari?

[SgtPepper]

First of all I have to say how saddened I am by the death of a marshall. I know that there are certainly a lot of potential dangers to take into account, but some part of me fears this will keep happening to these volunteers every so often because there will never be as much effort put into keeping them as safe as the drivers. Call me cynical, but if we can keep these guys safe at 200mph, surely we can keep some poor guy safe from a crane?

That I don't like. One thing I've always admired in F1 was that, unlike in football, the level of respect towards the sportsmen were high.. even if the victorious one was not your favourite.
But it's not the same anymore... People were booing hamilton the last time he won in Monza. I thought that was really sad. such an epic place to win and you get booed because you're not a ferrari driver ?! shame

Normally I would absolutely agree with you, and I dislike blind dedication to one particular driver/team (particularly the almost bizarre behaviour of the 'tifosi'), and I would also advocate a healthy respect throughout the F1 community. HOWEVER, with the Canadian podium (which I think was more than just the Ferrari fans as it happened in Australia too) I also took other ideas into account;

1) Ok this is contentious (and perhaps not the best place to discuss this?) but I truly rate Vettel's championships at about Button's or Villeneuve's degree of talent,
2) His attitude leaves MUCH to be desired - be that the tantrums, self-entitlement (a la Malaysia) or the ever loathed gesticulation, it doesn't bode well for likeableness,
3) Now this is the key point to my supporting of the fan's reaction in Canada - Vettel lives in another world to us mere fans. We know he doesn't frequent forums or the internet much, and all around him will be the soothe-sayers and the ego-massagers. How often does he actually have a reality check? How often is he aware of the great dislike generated within much of the F1 public? (Which I also firmly beleive is deeper than a dislike of his success/being German).

Excuse me if this seems like a rant, and I'm normally a strong advocate of good sportmanship and respect between equals - and I find it pathetic and rude that half of the Italian grand prix venue leaves if both Ferraris retire, I suppose what I'm trying to say is...does Vettel deserve the respect? In my eyes, absolutely not, and the Canadian podium was a brief glimpse, just a tiny glimmer of hope, in some degree of realisation of questioning to Vettel's 'I-have-3-championships-which-have-nothing-to-do-with-Newey-I'm-obviously-just-the-best' self satisfaction. Maybe that's just me though.

[madmark1974]

First of all I have to say how saddened I am by the death of a marshall. I know that there are certainly a lot of potential dangers to take into account, but some part of me fears this will keep happening to these volunteers every so often because there will never be as much effort put into keeping them as safe as the drivers. Call me cynical, but if we can keep these guys safe at 200mph, surely we can keep some poor guy safe from a crane?

That I don't like. One thing I've always admired in F1 was that, unlike in football, the level of respect towards the sportsmen were high.. even if the victorious one was not your favourite.
But it's not the same anymore... People were booing hamilton the last time he won in Monza. I thought that was really sad. such an epic place to win and you get booed because you're not a ferrari driver ?! shame

Normally I would absolutely agree with you, and I dislike blind dedication to one particular driver/team (particularly the almost bizarre behaviour of the 'tifosi'), and I would also advocate a healthy respect throughout the F1 community. HOWEVER, with the Canadian podium I also took other ideas into account;

1) Ok this is contentious (and perhaps not the best place to discuss this?) but I truly rate Vettel's championships at about Button's or Villeneuve's degree of talent,
2) His attitude leaves MUCH to be desired - be that the tantrums, self-entitlement (a la Malaysia) or the ever loathed gesticulation, it doesn't bode well for likeableness,
3) Now this is the key point to my supporting of the fan's reaction in Canada - Vettel lives in another world to us mere fans. We know he doesn't frequent forums or the internet much, and all around him will be the soothe-sayers and the ego-massagers. How often does he actually have a reality check? How often is he aware of the great dislike generated within much of the F1 public? (Which I also firmly beleive is deeper than a dislike of his success/being German).

Excuse me if this seems like a rant, and I'm normally a strong advocate of good sportmanship and respect between equals - and I find it pathetic and rude that half of the Italian grand prix venue leaves if both Ferraris retire, I suppose what I'm trying to say is...does Vettel deserve the respect? In my eyes, absolutely not, and the Canadian podium was a brief glimpse, just a tiny glimmer of hope, in some degree of Vettel's 'I-have-3-championships-which-have-nothing-to-do-with-Newey-I'm-obviously-just-the-best' self satisfaction. Maybe that's just me though.

Well it could force Red Bull and Vettel to have a bit of a think about things. Both of them seemed genuinely delighted to have won in North America, respectively for business and personal reasons, and to hear that perhaps not
everyone was happy about it and that maybe their respective 'brands' are not as popular as they might have thought may give them reason for concern. Having said that, I didn't like to hear the booing and there's no place for that
sort of behaviour, especially as Canada is a well established venue.

[CoopsII]

Normally I would absolutely agree with you, and I dislike blind dedication to one particular driver/team (particularly the almost bizarre behaviour of the 'tifosi'), and I would also advocate a healthy respect throughout the F1 community. HOWEVER, with the Canadian podium I also took other ideas into account;

1) Ok this is contentious (and perhaps not the best place to discuss this?) but I truly rate Vettel's championships at about Button's or Villeneuve's degree of talent,
2) His attitude leaves MUCH to be desired - be that the tantrums, self-entitlement (a la Malaysia) or the ever loathed gesticulation, it doesn't bode well for likeableness,
3) Now this is the key point to my supporting of the fan's reaction in Canada - Vettel lives in another world to us mere fans. We know he doesn't frequent forums or the internet much, and all around him will be the soothe-sayers and the ego-massagers. How often does he actually have a reality check? How often is he aware of the great dislike generated within much of the F1 public? (Which I also firmly beleive is deeper than a dislike of his success/being German).

Excuse me if this seems like a rant, and I'm normally a strong advocate of good sportmanship and respect between equals - and I find it pathetic and rude that half of the Italian grand prix venue leaves if both Ferraris retire, I suppose what I'm trying to say is...does Vettel deserve the respect? In my eyes, absolutely not, and the Canadian podium was a brief glimpse, just a tiny glimmer of hope, in some degree of Vettel's 'I-have-3-championships-which-have-nothing-to-do-with-Newey-I'm-obviously-just-the-best' self satisfaction. Maybe that's just me though.

1) So?
2) In your opinion. In every media interview Ive seen, to me at least, he comes across as as grounded and humble as you can really expect a triple world champion to be.
3)If he did frequent forums, if he did get this 'reality check' he apparently needs, if he did understand what certain people think about him (and you've no idea what he knows) what do you think he should do? Win less races? And I disagree that 'much of the F1 public' dislike him, and you have no evidence to back that up anyway.

Does Vettel deserve respect? In those circumstances yesterday I think he deserves it as much as anybody.

Vettel annoys me because he keeps beating drivers that I want to win but you cant deny that he deserved better than what a small, but vocal, portion of the fans gave him yesterday.

[CoopsII]

And hello everyone, I've been reading this forum for months but never commented for fear of looking foolish, but I simply had to escape the Vettel fanboyism on F1 fanatic. The degree of expertise on here is incredible, so I'll mostly ask questions/keep my mouth shut.

Welcome to the forum but perhaps celebrating escaping Vettel fanboyism by launching some anti-Vettel fanboyism isnt the best start

[Meatwad]

The main reason why people hate Vettel is his domination. Yes, Vettel can sometimes be involved in controversies, complain about various things etc. but Alonso and Hamilton, among others, have also had similar moments. The only reason why they don't get as much hate is that they have not been as successful in the last three seasons. If anyone else on the grid won three consecutive championships, they would be similarly hated (especially if they completely dominated like Vettel in 2011).

The common saying that Vettel has to prove himself against a world champion makes no sense in my opinion. I would say that Hamilton is the only driver on the grid who has actually done this (against world champions Alonso and Button). Hamilton wasn't even a world champion when he drove against Alonso. The main problem is that if Vettel lost the championship to Webber this year, according to this theory he would be a better driver than before, in spite of his performance being inferior to previous years (he has never been outscored by a team mate).

If we compare Vettel's team mates (Heidfeld, Liuzzi, Bourdais and Webber) to Alonso's (Marques, Yoong, Trulli, Villeneuve, Fisichella, Hamilton, Piquet, Grosjean, Massa), I don't think there is a huge difference. The only one of Alonso's team mates that I would rank easily ahead of Vettel's is Hamilton, and he beat Alonso on countback (as a rookie). I would rank Trulli, Fisichella and Massa at about the same level as Webber. Bourdais and Liuzzi may not have been the best drivers in F1 but neither were Marques, Piquet and Grosjean (especially the 2009 version). Heidfeld and Villeneuve should probably be kept out of this comparison as they only drove as Vettel and Alonso's team mates for a few races. As should Yoong although we know he was a pretty poor driver.

I didn't understand the booing either. If it had happened in Australia, it would have been similarly unacceptable but at least there would have been some excuse for it.

[SgtPepper]

1) So?
2) In your opinion. In every media interview Ive seen, to me at least, he comes across as as grounded and humble as you can really expect a triple world champion to be.
3)If he did frequent forums, if he did get this 'reality check' he apparently needs, if he did understand what certain people think about him (and you've no idea what he knows) what do you think he should do? Win less races? And I disagree that 'much of the F1 public' dislike him, and you have no evidence to back that up anyway.

Does Vettel deserve respect? In those circumstances yesterday I think he deserves it as much as anybody.

Vettel annoys me because he keeps beating drivers that I want to win but you cant deny that he deserved better than what a small, but vocal, portion of the fans gave him yesterday.

1) To me, what I consider an upper-mid-tier driver walking away with three championships simply because of the machinery (I'm certainly no Alonso fan, but I felt he clearly deserved at least 2012 for dragging the Ferrari into championship contention) isn't just dull to watch, but in the long run bad for the sport as a whole. Although I acknowledge that the technological development has always been a part of F1, when a driver is able to flatten the opposition simply by virtue of what he's in, it makes the role of the drivers ultimately pointless. Although I find the development race interesting, to me personally I adore F1 because of the skills involved by the guys piloting them.
2) It's clearly a facade, as his true nature shows through whenever the pressure is ramped up (and he was blatant about it post-Malaysia when he said Webber didn't 'deserve' to win, despite the fact Webber had got infront of him on nothing but merit). I know this isn't a popularity contest, but that to me seems over the line in terms of lack of respect for one of the elder-statesmen of F1.
3) The polls on F1 fanatic regularly show that Vettel is generally far less popular than his counterparts. However, I will agree with you that I'm not sure what he's supposed to do really to garner respect - maybe shift teams and prove himself in an inferior car? I'm genuinely not sure.

I suppose we'll just have to disagree on whether it was warranted or not, and I certainly understand where you're coming from as I'll be appalled if a non-Ferrari driver is booed at Monza, but to me it was refreshing to see a chink in the armour of Vettel's vastly swollen ego.

[SgtPepper]

And hello everyone, I've been reading this forum for months but never commented for fear of looking foolish, but I simply had to escape the Vettel fanboyism on F1 fanatic. The degree of expertise on here is incredible, so I'll mostly ask questions/keep my mouth shut.

Welcome to the forum but perhaps celebrating escaping Vettel fanboyism by launching some anti-Vettel fanboyism isnt the best start

I know, I didn't post for months for fear of treading on toes, and then managed to do so immediately! :/ It's the ability of everyone here to simply recall tiny instances that happened 15-20 years ago that's quite daunting, but also intruiging. My close friend who only really watches the occasional race and is coming to Silverstone with me finds it perplexing that people retain such a vast degree of facts about one topic.

But then again he likes DRS, so I suppose I shouldn't pay too much attention.