The 2013 Canadian Grand Prix Thread

[AndreaModa]

I know this is a little early for opening the race thread, but I wanted to share this piece of news with everyone:

Stramala's favourite American, Alexander Rossi, will be driving one of the Caterhams in FP1. It's not yet clear who out of Pic and van der Garde he will replace.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107769

I also noticed this bit at the bottom of the article:

"I was last in an F1 car in the CT02 2012 car in Abu Dhabi, last November for the young driver test so I'm looking forward to see how far the car has progressed since then."

Except of course, there has never been a Caterham CT02, at least not in F1 form! The kid needs to brush up on his team's chassis designations I think!

[Jocke1]

"I was last in an F1 car in the CT02 2012 car in Abu Dhabi, last November for the young driver test so I'm looking forward to seeing how far I have progressed since then."

fixed

[Alextrax52]

I know this is a little early for opening the race thread, but I wanted to share this piece of news with everyone:

Andrea Moda i don't think you opened the thread too early because Jocke1 opened the Monaco thread 11 days before the actual race and you have as well.

As for Rossi i would expect him to be in the Caterham for these North American races at both Montreal and Texas which is near the end of the year. Whether he has the pace to match the other division 3 racers is an unknown but i would expect him to match at least Chilton because we known how good Bianchi is and Van derp Garde is no longer Derping. The question is how are we going to distinguish his time check from Nico Rosberg's as they both have the timecheck ROS.

In terms of past history i would say Lewis Hamilton is one of the favorites because he loves this place and is a 3 time winner and a 3 time pole sitter too. He could have won 4 races if he didn't rear-end Raikkonen in 2008 and what he did to Button last year just made me laugh.

Red Bull meanwhile have never won around here with a double podium in the 2011 race their best result. Neither Sebastian Vettel or Mark Webber have great records around here with that double podium in 2011 being their only visits to the rostrum. Fernando Alonso also isn't great around here with a Win in 2006 and a 3rd in 2010 being his only podiums around Montreal for all his success this is one of his least successful tracks and his drive in 2007 was pathetic. Nico Rosberg has never stood on the podium at Montreal and he's was massively unlucky in 2007 and 2008 when the Williams was very competitive but on current form and if the Merc handles it's tires well then he'll be at the party for sure.

No one has had more contrasting fortunes around here than Jenson Button. From a somewhat fortunate podium in 2004 to hitting the Wall of Champions in 2005. A solid 2nd in 2010 was followed by that awesome victory in 2011 where he was in every postitio for at least one lap of the race. However he really was Bunsen Jetton last year when he toddled around in 16th while Hamilton won also getting himself lapped and earning himself a nice big ROTR too. In contrast team-mate Sergio Perez used Strategy more than anything else to finish 3rd last year but if Mclaren can keep their Monaco form going then i think he can earn a podium on speed for once.

Finally Lotus and Kimi Raikkonen like Alonso hasn't had the best of times at Montreal. Apart from winning in 2005 and finishing 3rd in 2006 he hasn't had many results to speak of around here but he will be a contender because he's showing no sign of the slump he had at around this point last year. Romain Grosjean finished 2nd last year but unlike Perez he was on for 4th on merit anyway before Vettel and Alonso stumbled so if he can repeat that this year then he might take some of the pressure off himself.

I however have a lot of important exams to get through first

[Jocke1]

Interesting fact on LH at Montreal:
3 wins/podiums. 3 poles. 160 laps in the lead, and 60 points scored.
But he has never set the fastest lap of the race!

[Alextrax52]

Interesting fact on LH at Montreal:
3 wins/podiums. 3 poles. 160 laps in the lead, and 60 points scored.
But he has never set the fastest lap of the race!

What do you think makes him so good at this place Jocke1? Is it down to him just suiting this circuit better than others or is it something in his driving that allows him to excel at this place?

[Jocke1]

What do you think makes him so good at this place Jocke1? Is it down to him just suiting this circuit better than others or is it something in his driving that allows him to excel at this place?

Has he had the same race engineer for all three wins? I'm not sure.
This year he is working with Peter Bonnington, though. Remains to be seen how they will fare this time out.

[F1000X]

What do you think makes him so good at this place Jocke1? Is it down to him just suiting this circuit better than others or is it something in his driving that allows him to excel at this place?

Hamilton is of the late braking breed. This is track the rewards that. I'm curious to see how Checo fairs here.

[go_Rubens]

"I was last in an F1 car in the CT02 2012 car in Abu Dhabi, last November for the young driver test so I'm looking forward to see how far the car has progressed since then."

Except of course, there has never been a Caterham CT02, at least not in F1 form! The kid needs to brush up on his team's chassis designations I think!

Isn't this year's car the CT02?

And Autosport mentioned that this year's Caterham is a CT03 I don't think that exists at all. What a laughable failure!

What do you think makes him so good at this place Jocke1? Is it down to him just suiting this circuit better than others or is it something in his driving that allows him to excel at this place?

Hamilton is of the late braking breed. This is track the rewards that. I'm curious to see how Checo fairs here.

I'm interested in that as well, considering that Checo was using late braking to overtake at Monte Carlo. He kinda paid for it. Now, he can redeem himself. If he gets worse, may another ROTR award come to him.

[Onxy Wrecked]

What do you think makes him so good at this place Jocke1? Is it down to him just suiting this circuit better than others or is it something in his driving that allows him to excel at this place?

Hamilton is of the late braking breed. This is track the rewards that. I'm curious to see how Checo fairs here.

The answer is probably very well for Checo.

[Dj_bereta]

Lewis will crash for sure

2007: Win
2008: Crash in the pit exit.
2010: Win
2011: Crash in the middle of pit wall.
2012: Win
2013: ... you know.

Raikkonen was champion in 2007 and Lewis crashed with him in following year. Button was champion in 2009 and Lewis crashed with him too two years later. Someone won your first title in 2010 and now, 3 years later...

So, guess who Hamilton will crash in this year.

[mario]

What do you think makes him so good at this place Jocke1? Is it down to him just suiting this circuit better than others or is it something in his driving that allows him to excel at this place?

Hamilton is of the late braking breed. This is track the rewards that. I'm curious to see how Checo fairs here.

It is not just braking late, but also the way in which he modulates the brakes - that is the way in which he tends to make up most of his lap time around a circuit, and at a venue like Canada, where you spend a relatively high proportion of your time on the brakes, that probably explains why he is especially strong there. Then again, at the moment it looks like Hamilton is not entirely happy with the braking performance of the W04 - Mercedes have traditionally used different brake materials to McLaren, and whilst Nico seems happy with the more common Brembo brakes, Hamilton, who prefers Carbone Industries, seems to be struggling to get a set up he likes.

I can imagine that there may well be a strong battle between the two Mercedes drivers in Canada in qualifying - Hamilton is going to be very keen to lift his performance and knows this is a venue where he can excel, whilst Rosberg is currently in very competitive form and will be very confident given his recent string of pole positions and the win in Monaco. Canada has also been one of Mercedes's slightly stronger venues too - Rosberg has recorded two top six finishes in recent years, whilst Schumacher picked up 4th (only a few tenths from a podium in the end) too - but I would expect them to slip back a bit in the race as their poor rear tyre management might hurt them at a venue that puts a strong emphasis on rear traction.

Looking at previous events, Ferrari and Lotus might do fairly well come the race itself - both teams have shown fairly strong tyre management, especially Lotus. I also wonder how McLaren and Force India might do - McLaren have shown improved performance and Perez did do well here last time with his tyre management strategy, whilst Force India believe that they should do well at rear traction limited venues like Canada due to their strong rear tyre management.

The one outfit I can see struggling a little is Red Bull - their poor straight line speed might hurt them here, and this time around they cannot easily take advantage of their strong downforce package in the middle sector given their tyre management issues. I fear that we might be hearing some especially vociferous complaints from them after this race if they do poorly...

[AndreaModa]

"I was last in an F1 car in the CT02 2012 car in Abu Dhabi, last November for the young driver test so I'm looking forward to see how far the car has progressed since then."

Except of course, there has never been a Caterham CT02, at least not in F1 form! The kid needs to brush up on his team's chassis designations I think!

Isn't this year's car the CT02?

And Autosport mentioned that this year's Caterham is a CT03 I don't think that exists at all. What a laughable failure!

No, Autosport are right. This year's car is CT03. They missed out CT02 as that designation has gone to a road car they're putting together.

[razta]

Lewis will crash for sure

2007: Win
2008: Crash in the pit exit.
2010: Win
2011: Crash in the middle of pit wall.
2012: Win
2013: ... you know.

Raikkonen was champion in 2007 and Lewis crashed with him in following year. Button was champion in 2009 and Lewis crashed with him too two years later. Someone won your first title in 2010 and now, 3 years later...

So, guess who Hamilton will crash in this year.

As much as I'd love to see that happen (HSCH) this year, I want him on the podium. yep, Merc

[johnnyCarwash]

The one outfit I can see struggling a little is Red Bull .I fear that we might be hearing some especially vociferous complaints from them after this race if they do poorly...

I guess it's another race of pressing mute whenever a Whine Bull driver / team member speaks and not reading their statements.... Then the BBC coverage will be strongly voicing Whine Bull's concerns via DC.....

[DanielPT]

The one outfit I can see struggling a little is Red Bull .I fear that we might be hearing some especially vociferous complaints from them after this race if they do poorly...

I guess it's another race of pressing mute whenever a Whine Bull driver / team member speaks and not reading their statements.... Then the BBC coverage will be strongly voicing Whine Bull's concerns via DC.....

It is been unbearable reading DC's columns lately. I don't know what his agenda is (perhaps being a former Whine Bull driver helps), but for someone as strongly inside the F1 world knowledge, I expected much more well informed opinions of him. It is almost like he never drove in the grooved tyres era...

[mario]

The one outfit I can see struggling a little is Red Bull .I fear that we might be hearing some especially vociferous complaints from them after this race if they do poorly...

I guess it's another race of pressing mute whenever a Whine Bull driver / team member speaks and not reading their statements.... Then the BBC coverage will be strongly voicing Whine Bull's concerns via DC.....

It is been unbearable reading DC's columns lately. I don't know what his agenda is (perhaps being a former Whine Bull driver helps), but for someone as strongly inside the F1 world knowledge, I expected much more well informed opinions of him. It is almost like he never drove in the grooved tyres era...

I would not be surprised if he has been leaned on by Red Bull (incidentally, is he still not, technically, connected to Red Bull? He does still take part in the occasional publicity event for them) to help make their case.

Equally, I suppose that, being used to driving to his own physical limits rather than that of the car, that mentality of wanting to see somebody push themselves right to their limits is hard to reconcile with the fact that many drivers do not feel that they are pushing their physical limits. It is not that long ago that Alonso collapsed from physical exhaustion after the Bahrain GP (in 2009, I think) and some drivers were asking for changes to be made to the tracks and cars because they were struggling to make it through the races - to go from that situation to one where the drivers seem to be much more relaxed in the cockpit probably sticks in the throat of a driver for whom each and every lap was a test of his strength and stamina.

On another note, Adam cooper is reporting that Pirelli intend to bring two additional sets of the experimental new tyres, of the medium compound only, that they want to introduce from Silverstone onwards for the practise sessions. http://adamcooperf1.com/2013/05/29/perf ... i-insists/

[DanielPT]

Equally, I suppose that, being used to driving to his own physical limits rather than that of the car, that mentality of wanting to see somebody push themselves right to their limits is hard to reconcile with the fact that many drivers do not feel that they are pushing their physical limits. It is not that long ago that Alonso collapsed from physical exhaustion after the Bahrain GP (in 2009, I think) and some drivers were asking for changes to be made to the tracks and cars because they were struggling to make it through the races - to go from that situation to one where the drivers seem to be much more relaxed in the cockpit probably sticks in the throat of a driver for whom each and every lap was a test of his strength and stamina.

It is not that they collapsed a lot in the early naughties and even in the 90s. I will refer, again, the big reduction on the grip provided by grooved tyres that reduced the cornering speeds and subsequently the Gs that a driver was subjected. This is nothing new and it is seemingly cyclical...

[PT8475]

Am I the only one wondering how interesting this race could be if we combine the current Pirelli tyres with a track breakup of the kind we saw in 2008? Could make for a busy, busy pitlane.

[AdrianSutil]

Am I the only one wondering how interesting this race could be if we combine the current Pirelli tyres with a track breakup of the kind we saw in 2008? Could make for a busy, busy pitlane.

Wasn't it 2006? The race where Martin Brundle said the work to re-lay turns 1, 2 and the hairpin were done by "a bunch of pikeys?"

[Alextrax52]

Am I the only one wondering how interesting this race could be if we combine the current Pirelli tyres with a track breakup of the kind we saw in 2008? Could make for a busy, busy pitlane.

Wasn't it 2006? The race where Martin Brundle said the work to re-lay turns 1, 2 and the hairpin were done by "a bunch of pikeys?"

No i think it was 2008 when he said that and he got into a bit of a sticky situation for it too.

Also in 2010 the tires broke up quite a lot and instead of the 1 stop plan deployed by everybody at that point in the seaon we saw 2-3 stops instead. Anyone want to bet on how many stops we'll see this year?

[mario]

Equally, I suppose that, being used to driving to his own physical limits rather than that of the car, that mentality of wanting to see somebody push themselves right to their limits is hard to reconcile with the fact that many drivers do not feel that they are pushing their physical limits. It is not that long ago that Alonso collapsed from physical exhaustion after the Bahrain GP (in 2009, I think) and some drivers were asking for changes to be made to the tracks and cars because they were struggling to make it through the races - to go from that situation to one where the drivers seem to be much more relaxed in the cockpit probably sticks in the throat of a driver for whom each and every lap was a test of his strength and stamina.

It is not that they collapsed a lot in the early naughties and even in the 90s. I will refer, again, the big reduction on the grip provided by grooved tyres that reduced the cornering speeds and subsequently the Gs that a driver was subjected. This is nothing new and it is seemingly cyclical...

The argument about pushing physical limits was one that Coulthard made when he argued that, although the drivers would push hard in his time in the sport, that generally it was the driver, rather than the car, that limited the performance.
He claimed in one of his articles that his performance in the car was often limited by his own physical strength and stamina - even with the switch to grooved tyres, he was arguing that the aerodynamic performance of the cars was often still sufficiently high that, in the high speed corners, it was the limits of the driver, rather than the traction of the car, that would be reached first. Whether that is entirely true or not is another matter, but that is what he claims were the state of affairs as he saw it at the time.

Am I the only one wondering how interesting this race could be if we combine the current Pirelli tyres with a track breakup of the kind we saw in 2008? Could make for a busy, busy pitlane.

Wasn't it 2006? The race where Martin Brundle said the work to re-lay turns 1, 2 and the hairpin were done by "a bunch of pikeys?"

No i think it was 2008 when he said that and he got into a bit of a sticky situation for it too.

Also in 2010 the tires broke up quite a lot and instead of the 1 stop plan deployed by everybody at that point in the seaon we saw 2-3 stops instead. Anyone want to bet on how many stops we'll see this year?

Probably two stops for most contenders, I would imagine.

The tyres are more sensitive to thermal degradation rather than out and out wear, and the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve does not really have many corners with sustained high tyre loads or a particularly abrasive surface (if anything, it is the smoothness of the circuit that caused those problems back in 2010 due to the amount of wheel slip that it caused). It is probably going to be the case that, after what happened last year, most major teams will play it safe and go for two stops (beyond Lotus, and even then I am not certain about them, I would wager that few will gamble on a one stop).

[Onxy Wrecked]

Lewis will crash for sure

2007: Win
2008: Crash in the pit exit.
2010: Win
2011: Crash in the middle of pit wall.
2012: Win
2013: ... you know.

Raikkonen was champion in 2007 and Lewis crashed with him in following year. Button was champion in 2009 and Lewis crashed with him too two years later. Someone won your first title in 2010 and now, 3 years later...

So, guess who Hamilton will crash in this year.

Vettel? Sounds good to me!

[Alextrax52]

Who's going to hit the wall of champions next?

Who will join Vettel Button Schumacher Villeneuve and Hill in terms of F1 Champions and the likes of Liuzzi Montoya Kobayashi Senna and Maldonado in terms of other drivers?

[UncreativeUsername37]

Who's going to hit the wall of champions next?

Who will join Vettel Button Schumacher Villeneuve and Hill in terms of F1 Champions and the likes of Liuzzi Montoya Kobayashi Senna and Maldonado in terms of other drivers?

Grosjean's not on that list and he's won GP2, so that's my guess.

[Jocke1]

Who's going to hit the wall of champions next?

Alex Rossi? He's a Formula BMW Americas champion.
And also Giedo van der Garde, World Series by Renault champion.

I predict both champions will hit the wall already on Friday.

[Alextrax52]

Who's going to hit the wall of champions next?

Alex Rossi? He's a Formula BMW Americas champion.
And also Giedo van der Garde, World Series by Renault champion.

I predict both champions will hit the wall already on Friday.

I just had a thought. Mark Webber has never been a World Champion in any form of motor sport let alone F1 and he's never hit the WOC either. So what club would he join?

[johnnyCarwash]

Who's going to hit the wall of champions next?

Alex Rossi? He's a Formula BMW Americas champion.
And also Giedo van der Garde, World Series by Renault champion.

I predict both champions will hit the wall already on Friday.

I just had a thought. Mark Webber has never been a World Champion in any form of motor sport let alone F1 and he's never hit the WOC either. So what club would he join?

The flying club

[Jocke1]

F1.com Canada preview quotes:

Kimi Raikkonen, Lotus
2012 Qualifying - 12th, 2012 Race - 8th
“I have won (in Canada) which was pretty good, but I have experienced some setbacks there as well. Many times the race has been quite a lottery as there seem to be different things which affect it. The weather can change a lot, sometimes the tyres or the track aren’t working very well, sometimes there are a lot of safety cars, or sometimes another driver runs into the back of you when you’re waiting at a red light.

[PT8475]

F1.com Canada preview quotes:

Kimi Raikkonen, Lotus
2012 Qualifying - 12th, 2012 Race - 8th
“I have won (in Canada) which was pretty good, but I have experienced some setbacks there as well. Many times the race has been quite a lottery as there seem to be different things which affect it. The weather can change a lot, sometimes the tyres or the track aren’t working very well, sometimes there are a lot of safety cars, or sometimes another driver runs into the back of you when you’re waiting at a red light.

He certainly seems to be talking a little more of late...

[Onxy Wrecked]

Who's going to hit the wall of champions next?

Alex Rossi? He's a Formula BMW Americas champion.
And also Giedo van der Garde, World Series by Renault champion.

I predict both champions will hit the wall already on Friday.

I just had a thought. Mark Webber has never been a World Champion in any form of motor sport let alone F1 and he's never hit the WOC either. So what club would he join?

The never hit said wall club, an even smaller club than the Wall of Champions.

[tommykl]

The question is how are we going to distinguish his time check from Nico Rosberg's as they both have the timecheck ROS.

I'm guessing they'll do something similar to what they did with Montoya/Monteiro/Montagny, and simply not choose the first three letters. Nico will obviously have ROS, and I'll wager that Rossi will get ROI, or RSI, or maybe even ARO.

[Jocke1]

and I'll wager that Rossi will get ROI, or RSI, or maybe even ARO.

Why not go for the simplest choice, P22. Saves a lot of time for the people handling the timesheets after the session is over.

[AndreaModa]

and I'll wager that Rossi will get ROI, or RSI, or maybe even ARO.

Why not go for the simplest choice, P22. Saves a lot of time for the people handling the timesheets after the session is over.

Post of the thread so far!

[DemocalypseNow]

and I'll wager that Rossi will get ROI, or RSI, or maybe even ARO.

Why not go for the simplest choice, P22. Saves a lot of time for the people handling the timesheets after the session is over.

You are my hero Jocke1.

[Alextrax52]

Dear god when will Whine Bull learn to stop Whining!?

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/06/02/f ... d-up-0206/

[Meatwad]

The question is how are we going to distinguish his time check from Nico Rosberg's as they both have the timecheck ROS.

I'm guessing they'll do something similar to what they did with Montoya/Monteiro/Montagny, and simply not choose the first three letters. Nico will obviously have ROS, and I'll wager that Rossi will get ROI, or RSI, or maybe even ARO.

RSI was used for Rossi last year when he drove in the Spanish GP first practice.

[GwilymJJames]

Dear god when will Whine Bull learn to stop Whining!?

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/06/02/f ... d-up-0206/

I guess it will be when Cheatcedes learn to stop Cheating.

[F1000X]

Dear god when will Whine Bull learn to stop Whining!?

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/06/02/f ... d-up-0206/

I guess it will be when Cheatcedes learn to stop Cheating.

[Salamander]

Dear god when will Whine Bull learn to stop Whining!?

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/06/02/f ... d-up-0206/

I guess it will be when Cheatcedes learn to stop Cheating.

You know any other F1 team would've done exactly the same.

[Londoner]

I'm already really bored of F1 politics rearing its ugly head again, in the same way that I'm really bored of so-called F1 fans whinging about this year's racing.

Nevertheless, I think we're in for another good race, and I can see Lotus doing well if they can manage with one less pitstop. If Grosjean can keep it clean, he may get a podium.