Sayonara, cowboy!

Snoozey2 · Post by **Snoozey2** » 16 Oct 2012, 19:26

I have come to bury Kamui, not to praise him.

Hot on the heels of his best-ever race finish in Formula One - 3rd at Suzuka - came the near-unanimous ROTR award at the Gangnam circuit a week later. And in between, Kobayashi was given his "pink slip" by Sauber, notifying him that his services will not be required in 2013.

As rumours of him being replaced by Nico Hulkenberg heated up, there was a round of press in which Kobayashi expressed his dismay at having to look for sponsors in order to secure another year's drive, albeit for a smaller, weaker team. It is possible his Engrish did not come across all that well, but I detect a hint of pride (or hubris, depending on your view of things) in his responses. I assert it is the latter, as I truly believe this to be a major cog in his racing make-up: his determination not to be thought of as yet another failed Japanese pay-driver.

But as of the time of writing, none of the "big" teams have come clamouring, and something tells me "Ol' Kobash" will be too proud to go down on bended knee and beg for a few million yen more on his own if he can't remain with the circus on merit.

So raise a glass, won't you, to the last 4 races of Kamui Kobayashi's F1 career: Texas, Interlagos, Yas Marina, and the Buddhoir. Enjoy them if you can.

Ide · Post by **Ide** » 16 Oct 2012, 19:31

According to some sources in the paddock (one of which is Ted Kravitz) we may already have witnessed Kamui's final goodbye as the silly crash. :cry:

Rumour has it that Sauber will be putting Gutierrez in the car for the last few races to "ready" him for next year. Can't help but think poor old Kamui has been somewhat neglected in the past few weeks by his team.

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 16 Oct 2012, 19:32

He can start his own F1 team!

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 16 Oct 2012, 19:35

Ide wrote:According to some sources in the paddock (one of which is Ted Kravitz) we may already have witnessed Kamui's final goodbye as the silly crash.

Rumour has it that Sauber will be putting Gutierrez in the car for the last few races to "ready" him for next year. Can't help but think poor old Kamui has been somewhat neglected in the past few weeks by his team.

I feel sad for Kobayashi, he's a good driver, but most crucially he his speed hasn't developed since his debut, and Perez has blown him out of the water unfortunately this year. Everyone was raving about him in his first season, but like anything, give it enough time and eventually no one cares. It'll be interesting to see what Gutierrez can do, if they sub him in for the last four, but again I feel for Kobayashi.

RealRacingRoots · Post by **RealRacingRoots** » 16 Oct 2012, 20:11

Jocke1 wrote:He can start his own F1 team!

With blackjack, and hookers?

Post by **Londoner** » 16 Oct 2012, 20:12

Holy moly, Snoozey2 is back! :shock:

And I personally think that if we are seeing the last few races of Kamui, we should reflect on the good memories, not start bashing him. That's what the Autosport Forums are for...

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 16 Oct 2012, 20:13

Sounds like this is just mere speculation. Have you got any sources to back up this claim? I'm fairly sure Sauber won't put Guttierez in the seat alongside Hulkenberg, Telmex have already confirmed they don't need a Mexican driving to assure their sponsorship, and I don't think he's ready yet for an F1 drive. Another year in GP2 will do it, so Kobayashi I think will stay with the team for 2013. I reckon Kamui will probably find some Japanese sponsorship too, he's got loads of support in Japan.

Ubik · Post by **Ubik** » 16 Oct 2012, 20:20

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 16 Oct 2012, 20:45

RealRacingRoots wrote:
Jocke1 wrote:He can start his own F1 team!

With blackjack, and hookers?

I'd be on board with that.

Post by **Ataxia** » 16 Oct 2012, 22:25

redbulljack14 wrote:
RealRacingRoots wrote:
Jocke1 wrote:He can start his own F1 team!

With blackjack, and hookers?

I'd be on board with that.

In fact, forget the blackjack and the F1 team...oh, screw the whole thing.

Post by **mario** » 17 Oct 2012, 07:44

redbulljack14 wrote:
RealRacingRoots wrote:
Jocke1 wrote:He can start his own F1 team!

With blackjack, and hookers?

I'd be on board with that.

BaconLettuceNinja wrote:In fact, forget the blackjack and the F1 team...oh, screw the whole thing.

Quite literally, by the sounds of things...

Anyway, sad though it is that Kobayashi may be being pushed out of Sauber, I guess that there had been some hints that not all was well at Sauber, such as the reports that Peter Sauber felt that Kobayashi hadn't performed as strongly as he felt he should have (even though, with 50 points, Kobayashi has scored more points this season on his own than both drivers did in 2011). The fact that the attitude of the senior management was "at last, he has finally finished on the podium" in Japan is somewhat revealing - and with Perez stealing all the headlines at Sauber (even though Perez isn't all that far ahead on 66 points), Kobayashi has rather been overshadowed this year.

Benetton · Post by **Benetton** » 17 Oct 2012, 08:50

In all fairness, Kobayashi hasn't performed that badly against Perez this season. Neither has consistently outqualified the other but Perez has certainly had some brilliant race performances. And while Kamui has had his moments (Germany, Japan) he has been overshadowed by Perez, by the press at least. But I think what is Kamui's biggest problem is that his developmental curve is not really "growing" at the rate it was maybe expected (should have, if he would have been of interest to bigger teams). Perez has less F1 experience and has had a better season than Kobayashi.

It is really unfortunate that Kamui may be out of a F1 seat all together after this season. That is a faith he doesn't deserve. Can't he really find some Japanese (or other Asian) sponsors to back him up atleast a bit?

I totally understand why Sauber want to go with Hulkenberg. He can drive the team forward. And Gutierrez being promoted is the one logical choice, A) to keep Telmex happy B) his performances in GP2 were adequate in my opinion. I could also see Sauber interested in Pic, not just because of sponsors but because he has shown to be atleast a bit more than decent this year.

Where would Kamui fit in? If he can find some sponsorship then a good fit could be Caterham with Heikki..?

Meatwad · Post by **Meatwad** » 17 Oct 2012, 09:29

If Sauber really are going to drop Kamui, they will lose my support. It seems that it's a similar situation to Petrov at Caterham where the team constantly ignores one driver's good performances while hyping the other driver. If one crash ruins Kamui's chances to retain his seat, it's completely ridiculous! I actually think they made the decision to drop Kamui several races ago and would still drop him if he won a race and outscored Pérez.

The points gap between Kobayashi and Pérez is mostly due to Pérez having better luck with strategies. While Pérez has been better in races (with Kobayashi beating him in qualifying), a gap of 16 points is not huge, especially to a driver who is regarded as good enough for McLaren. Sadly, it seems that Sauber has forgotten everything that Kamui has achieved for them. Kamui scored 32 out of their 44 points in 2010. In the last two years, he has also had very impressive performances, some of them ruined by bad strategies and even worse luck.

Benetton wrote:Where would Kamui fit in? If he can find some sponsorship then a good fit could be Caterham with Heikki..?

To be honest, I would rather see Kamui move to another series. Caterham is nothing but a career graveyard. Even Kovalainen hasn't managed to get anywhere in spite of his impressive performances (he was ranked in the top 5 or 10 last year by almost everyone!). The same applies to Marussia and HRT (especially Timo Glock). The only exceptions to this rule have been D'Ambrosio (lucky one-off for Lotus) and Ricciardo (supported by Red Bull even before his HRT drive).

Let's hope Kamui gets to drive for Force India if he loses his Sauber seat.

Zetec · Post by **Zetec** » 17 Oct 2012, 10:24

Ide wrote:According to some sources in the paddock (one of which is Ted Kravitz) we may already have witnessed Kamui's final goodbye as the silly crash.

Rumour has it that Sauber will be putting Gutierrez in the car for the last few races to "ready" him for next year. Can't help but think poor old Kamui has been somewhat neglected in the past few weeks by his team.

Well, Sauber is trying to fight Mercedes for 5th positions. So giving Kamui's seat to Gutierrez would be just stupid.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 17 Oct 2012, 10:32

It is still early for me to comment on the possibility of Sauber dumping Kobayashi in favour of a lesser driver. Clearly I am still in absolute denial.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 17 Oct 2012, 11:57

As the old saying (around here, at least) goes, Autosport or it didn't happen.

Now, for Kobayashi leaving Sauber, I am still doubting the "Hülkenberg to Sauber" rumours in the first place, to be honest, so why should Sauber dispense with the services of a pretty competent driver when they can fit Esteban Gutiérrez in Sergio Pérez's seat now that he's off to McLaren? Sponsorship? The Telmex money is pretty much assured for next season, so unless they want to shoehorn a pay-driver (which is not very advisable considering the quality of the likes of Giedo van der Garde or Rodolfo González, I don't really see it happening.

Anyway, Kamui still has four races to convince Sauber he should keep him on board, so don't lower the casket yet.

Gerudo Dragon · Post by **Gerudo Dragon** » 17 Oct 2012, 16:06

Jocke1 wrote:He can start his own F1 team!

Super Kamui would be great....

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 18 Oct 2012, 10:43

I now really want to see Kamui going to Williams as he would be a lot better than all current Williams drivers

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 18 Oct 2012, 16:38

eurobrun wrote:I now really want to see Kamui going to Williams as he would be a lot better than all current Williams drivers

No, I don't think that would be the case. I mean, that he would beat Senna like a punching bag is obvious - anyone on the current grid including Karthikeyan would do that, since that is not too hard - however an intrateam battle with Pastor Maldonado would really just be "Vs. Perez 2: Venezuelan Boogaloo" in that Kobayashi would look competitve but lose out in points and significant results. Kobayashi just has the problem that he isn't a star driver, he has exciting scenes and gets decent results for sure, but he lacks the edge and unless your name is Jenson Button and Fortuna gets wet every time she sees you you need that edge to have the upperhand against guys like Perez or Maldonado.

FMecha · Post by **FMecha** » 18 Oct 2012, 17:43

Maybe Kobayashi should go to STR with Vergne's future in doubt. Just a suggestion.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 18 Oct 2012, 18:13

Klon wrote:
eurobrun wrote:I now really want to see Kamui going to Williams as he would be a lot better than all current Williams drivers

No, I don't think that would be the case. I mean, that he would beat Senna like a punching bag is obvious - anyone on the current grid including Karthikeyan would do that, since that is not too hard - however an intrateam battle with Pastor Maldonado would really just be "Vs. Perez 2: Venezuelan Boogaloo" in that Kobayashi would look competitve but lose out in points and significant results. Kobayashi just has the problem that he isn't a star driver, he has exciting scenes and gets decent results for sure, but he lacks the edge and unless your name is Jenson Button and Fortuna gets wet every time she sees you you need that edge to have the upperhand against guys like Perez or Maldonado.

I think the sport doesn't live only from star drivers (as these are difficult to find anyway) but also from good, hard working, solid and experienced drivers who can get consistent results... I mean, just ask Rubens Barrichello that and he will immediately agree

. Some even say that is the problem with Williams!

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 18 Oct 2012, 18:37

DanielPT wrote:I think the sport doesn't live only from star drivers (as these are difficult to find anyway) but also from good, hard working, solid and experienced drivers who can get consistent results... I mean, just ask Rubens Barrichello that and he will immediately agree . Some even say that is the problem with Williams!

Now don't get me wrong, in no shape whatsoever I did say that Kobayashi wasn't good enough to be in F1 or at any given team. I just assumed that he would most likely lose a team battle against Maldonado. As far as I am concerned a Maldonado/Kobayashi line-up would be a giant step upwards from Maldonado/Senna.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 18 Oct 2012, 18:47

Klon wrote:
DanielPT wrote:I think the sport doesn't live only from star drivers (as these are difficult to find anyway) but also from good, hard working, solid and experienced drivers who can get consistent results... I mean, just ask Rubens Barrichello that and he will immediately agree . Some even say that is the problem with Williams!

Now don't get me wrong, in no shape whatsoever I did say that Kobayashi wasn't good enough to be in F1 or at any given team. I just assumed that he would most likely lose a team battle against Maldonado. As far as I am concerned a Maldonado/Kobayashi line-up would be a giant step upwards from Maldonado/Senna.

Maldonado/Vergne would be a step up from Maldonado/Senna.

Meatwad · Post by **Meatwad** » 18 Oct 2012, 18:51

Klon wrote:Now don't get me wrong, in no shape whatsoever I did say that Kobayashi wasn't good enough to be in F1 or at any given team. I just assumed that he would most likely lose a team battle against Maldonado. As far as I am concerned a Maldonado/Kobayashi line-up would be a giant step upwards from Maldonado/Senna.

I don't think Maldonado could beat Kobayashi. He could be faster than Kamui but Kamui is more consistent. Although Maldonado seems to be improving a lot with four consecutive weekends without an incident...

Row Man Gross-Gene · Post by **Row Man Gross-Gene** » 18 Oct 2012, 19:14

Meatwad wrote:
Klon wrote:Now don't get me wrong, in no shape whatsoever I did say that Kobayashi wasn't good enough to be in F1 or at any given team. I just assumed that he would most likely lose a team battle against Maldonado. As far as I am concerned a Maldonado/Kobayashi line-up would be a giant step upwards from Maldonado/Senna.

I don't think Maldonado could beat Kobayashi. He could be faster than Kamui but Kamui is more consistent. Although Maldonado seems to be improving a lot with four consecutive weekends without an incident...

How many points has Pastor scored in those four races?

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 18 Oct 2012, 19:24

Row Man Gross-Gene wrote:
Meatwad wrote:
Klon wrote:Now don't get me wrong, in no shape whatsoever I did say that Kobayashi wasn't good enough to be in F1 or at any given team. I just assumed that he would most likely lose a team battle against Maldonado. As far as I am concerned a Maldonado/Kobayashi line-up would be a giant step upwards from Maldonado/Senna.

I don't think Maldonado could beat Kobayashi. He could be faster than Kamui but Kamui is more consistent. Although Maldonado seems to be improving a lot with four consecutive weekends without an incident...

How many points has Pastor scored in those four races?

Four, although Maldonado would have finished at least 4th in Singapore before his hydraulics decided to die.

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 19 Oct 2012, 01:40

Where is Captain Hammer screaming for a reliable source in this thread? Oh right, he hates Kobayashi.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 19 Oct 2012, 07:05

LionZoo wrote:Where is Captain Hammer screaming for a reliable source in this thread? Oh right, he hates Kobayashi.

BOOM and the hypocrisy is called out.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 19 Oct 2012, 09:30

LionZoo wrote:Where is Captain Hammer screaming for a reliable source in this thread? Oh right, he hates Kobayashi.

To be fair, he doesn't hate Kobayashi directly. He hates that people love Kamui without any good reason in his mind.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 19 Oct 2012, 09:36

Klon wrote:
DanielPT wrote:I think the sport doesn't live only from star drivers (as these are difficult to find anyway) but also from good, hard working, solid and experienced drivers who can get consistent results... I mean, just ask Rubens Barrichello that and he will immediately agree . Some even say that is the problem with Williams!

Now don't get me wrong, in no shape whatsoever I did say that Kobayashi wasn't good enough to be in F1 or at any given team. I just assumed that he would most likely lose a team battle against Maldonado. As far as I am concerned a Maldonado/Kobayashi line-up would be a giant step upwards from Maldonado/Senna.

I think you would be surprise by Kamui on this one. Logic dictates that Kobayashi would put up a good fight and his consistency would deliver the goods. Logic because since Perez, in his second GP2 season, managed to put up a great fight with Pastor and he is being, more or less, matched by Kamui despite his more stellar results. I think Madonado would be a better qualifier but a worse racer.

Snoozey2 · Post by **Snoozey2** » 20 Oct 2012, 17:13

He, The Sushi Chef's Son From Amagasaki has yet to complete a race lap at the Buddhoir, and sounds a lot more measured in the Sauber press release about his chances in India this year:

The track lay out as such should probably mean our performance will be average, which means we should be able to score points there.
It is a bit similar to the Korean circuit, which might have something to do with the fact the same designer did it at about the same time.

Link: http://www.f1-stinger.com/f1-news/originalrelease/2012/sauber/042137.php

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 20 Oct 2012, 19:28

As it has been pointed out, Sauber is in fight for the 5th place in WCC, so I really doubt they would part ways with Kamui before the end of the season. However, the news about the Hülkenberg-Gutierrez line-up seem to be quite strong to me, which would mean no Kamui or my support for the new Moni-Sauber team next year.

Options for Kamui in this case:
Force India: a simple switch with Hülkenberg, probably the most obvious choice, although it's questionable whether the team thinks the same. They have Bianchi in line which would be a nice continuation of the Di Resta-Hulk line. And if they go for someone else, I think Alguersuari has more money to his name than Kamui.

Williams: I highly doubt that. They built up Bottas to be ready next year to join probably Maldonado.

Toro Rosso won't really consider non-Red Bull backed up guys, I think.

Not too good picture, is it?

Snoozey2 · Post by **Snoozey2** » 20 Oct 2012, 20:57

QuickYoda41 wrote:Not too good picture, is it?

No. No it isn't. :cry:

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 20 Oct 2012, 23:05

QuickYoda41 wrote:Williams: I highly doubt that. They built up Bottas to be ready next year to join probably Maldonado.

Bottas better that Kamui, seriously?

I have now lost all faith in Williams being in existence in 5 years.

Gerudo Dragon · Post by **Gerudo Dragon** » 20 Oct 2012, 23:33

Kamui would be interesting to watch in a HRT or Marussia, probably won't happen though.

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 21 Oct 2012, 17:02

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 21 Oct 2012, 17:25

F1000X wrote:

Zetec · Post by **Zetec** » 21 Oct 2012, 21:04

darkapprentice77 wrote:Kamui would be interesting to watch in a HRT or Marussia, probably won't happen though.

Nah, won't happen. He said in an interview, that he won't make a change to a team worse than Sauber just to stay in F1. He also said, that he doesn't want to end as a pay-driver, so he would consider an end to his F1 career.

But as we know, he has obviously changed his mind, maybe boosted by his Suzuka weekend, and he's looking for a japanese-company, who could bring in some cash for a seat.

And I don't see him driving for HRT or Marussia. De la Rosa and Glock are both getting money, so the second driver has to bring money. And if Kamui has the backing, I predict he's trying to land a seat at Sauber or maybe Williams.

Snoozey2 · Post by **Snoozey2** » 22 Oct 2012, 18:53

I'm surprised it took this long for the nation to worry about the immediate future of her favourite Sushi Chef's Son From Amagasaki...
I don't understand Japanese, but you don't need to be a rocket scientist to get the gist of the mangled Engrish oozing out of the Google translator:

Publico-links:
http://f1-gate.com/sauber/f1_17026.html
http://ja.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/92405.html

It appears everyone seems to believe Sauber has already signed Hulkenberg for 2013, and that the fight is on for the most highly prized drive in F1: the second seat for Force India.

Dan B · Post by **Dan B** » 24 Oct 2012, 15:05

eurobrun wrote:
QuickYoda41 wrote:Williams: I highly doubt that. They built up Bottas to be ready next year to join probably Maldonado.

Bottas better that Kamui, seriously?

I have now lost all faith in Williams being in existence in 5 years.

Kobayashi might be (and from what we have seen, is) better than Bottas but the fact of the matter is that Williams have been grooming Bottas for a while. Unless Maldonado leaves for greener pastures (which he won't since apparently he is dedicated to Williams), Kobayashi going in the 2nd seat is highly unlikely.

Then again we never thought Hamilton would go to Toyot...er, Mercedes, so who knows. I just don't see Kobayashi going to Williams though.