Your Reject of the Year!

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 09 Oct 2011, 23:52

Now that the championship has been decided and there are just four races left in the season, I think it's high time we started considering the most Rejectful drivers of 2011. So, you get to rank the drivers first, second and third, with a few dishonourable mentions along the way.

A dishonourable mention is presented to everyone who isn't Sebastian Vettel, for obvious reasons.

In 3rd Place, we have Jarno Trulli, who passed his prime about three years ago. He's now slow and something of a liability to Team Fernandes, who insist on keeping him on.

2nd place is awarded to Mark Webber. On the back of his most competitive season in Formula 1, Webber should have been a title contender this year. But from the moment FP1 started in Melbourne, it became apparent that Sebastian Vettel has been driving circles around him, and the Australian has had no answer to Vettel's sheer speed.

And 1st place, the 2011 Formula 1 Reject of the Year goes to ... Lewis Hamilton. The difference between the performances we know he can deliver and the performances he has actually been delivering is greater than any other driver on the grid. 2011 has been a season of silly mistakes, constant denials and a general lack of respect for his fellow competitors (calling them "idiots" in Monaco, blaming Kobayashi at Spa without reviewing the replay and barging past Massa in Singapore). Once is a mistake, and twice might be a coincidence - but three times is a pattern, Lewis.

I'm also going to do something a little bit different this year, and offer award to the 26th, 27th and 28th most-Rejectful driver on the grid. Or, to put it in easier terms, the least-Rejectful drivers of the year (as there have been twenty-eight drivers overall).

The award for 26th place goes to Sebastian Vettel. With his sheer dominance, it would be easier to rank him further up the order, but I think that would marginalise the achievements of others.

In 27th place we have an unexpected winner: Vitaly Petrov. I'm not just saying this because I'm a Petrov fan - in 2011, he has become a completely different driver. He seemed to crash once a weekend in 2010, but this year, he has only crashed twice - and his Monaco wipeout was hardly his fault. He's had a massive improvement across the board. If he can start scoring points on a regular basis, he could be a good candidate for a second driver with one of the front-running teams.

And in 28th and last place, the least-Rejectful driver on the grid, we have Jenson Button. He only seems to get sharper, smarter and faster with age; races like Canada and Hungary are testaments to that. He's out-qualifying and out-performing Lewis Hamilton with ease, and he's starting to embody a McLaren driver. Moreover, I think history will re-evaluate his 2009 World Championship - maybe there was more to it than a fantastic car ...

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 10 Oct 2011, 00:11

I agree on both 1st and 26th. Vettel has actually had a couple of rejectful moments, with "losing a race for trolling around instead of opening a big gap while your rivals are stuck behind a slow car and then spinning in the final lap when someone who wouldn't have been that close if he had pushed before was catching him" being the most important. That's why he's been more rejectful than Button, whose position I also agree with.

kobayashiftw · Post by **kobayashiftw** » 10 Oct 2011, 00:55

ROTR for Lewis

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 10 Oct 2011, 02:24

Great...

I'm usually opposed to making choices like this these since I usually jinx them. I can see Webber winning the next two races, Hamilton praising the stewards, Jarno Trulli scoring a point, and Jenson Button clumsily whacking the back of Ricciardo's HRT. It's going to be a fun next four races, that's for sure.

I'll get back you on on ROTR when Brazil comes and goes.

EDIT - I just noticed this, but Button can't be 28th... because de la Rosa's and Chandhok's one offs will classify them as an "NC" and so there will be 26 drivers to choose from.

DOSBoot · Post by **DOSBoot** » 10 Oct 2011, 03:02

I'll wait until the end of the season before I make my final decisions. But here's my ROTR nominations this year so far.

3. Bruno Senna: The hype over him on this thread, hasn't exactly lived up to some of their expectations.

2. Lewis Hamilton: Needs no explanation.

1. Williams: After a respectable 2010 season where they scored 69 points, this year they have so far managed to only score 5. Their fall from grace is just astonishing.

Row Man Gross-Gene · Post by **Row Man Gross-Gene** » 10 Oct 2011, 03:14

My nomination: Everyone who is acronymizing Reject of the Year as ROTR!

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 10 Oct 2011, 03:15

Third - Seb... Seb... Mark Webber - Being taken to the cleaners by Vettel, who has stepped up to a new plane of existance, is bad enough. Being beaten by McLarens and Ferraris on a consistant basis in a car which is in theory half a second up the road is simply unacceptable.

Second - Lewis Hamilton - We know how good he can be (Some of his performances in the first half of 2009 in a sub-par car and his drive at China this year come to mind) but something clicked at Monaco with a dismal showing and ever since then he's been a train wreck both on and off the track.

First - Williams F1 - If you thought 2006 was bad then you ain't seen nothing yet. They had no choice but to sign on Maldonado for the PDVSA money and the car proved slow. In recent races Barrichello has made it a habit of finishing behind Maldonado. Statistically it is their worst season ever (Even 1977 was better :lol:

)

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 10 Oct 2011, 06:34

This is probably one of the most hotly-contested ROTYs in years.

Mark Webber - Exactly how many positions has he lost off the start this year? It was at least 20 by Singapore. One or two isolated incidents I can understand, but he just has not adapted to the Pirelli tyres this year, at all, and it casts a large shadow of doubt on his future success.
Lewis Hamilton - No explination necessary.
Felipe Massa - Only man with a top 3 car to not score a podium all year. He's one of the most likeable drivers there, but he's just not quick enough anymore, not even to be Alonso's lackey at this point.
Renault - Podiums in the first two races, then sharply downhill from there.
Williams - Well, they're doomed.
Pastor Maldonado - Last of the established drivers to score a point, and he only has the one. Remind me why he's here? Oh right, money.
Virgin - This year has been a complete and utter waste for them.
Jerome d'Ambrosio - I only remember him for stuffing it in the wall, and for spinning in the pitlane.
Vitantonio Liuzzi - Was not as far ahead of Karthikeyan as he should have been, outpaced by rookie Ricciardo, with mistakes galore, and then that crash. He is not the driver HRT, or anyone, for that matter, need.
Bruno Senna - Probably would still be on zero points if Liuzzi hadn't stuffed it up into the first chicane at Monza. Petrov clearly has the legs on him in race trim, almost to the point that Kubica was faster than Petrov last year.
Jarno Truli - Whine, whine, whine. Why is this guy still in F1?

My reject podium would be:

3rd: Williams
2nd: Vitantonio Liuzzi
1st: Lewis Hamilton

Post by **Londoner** » 10 Oct 2011, 07:23

This is going to be most enjoyable, as well as difficult!

3rd - Felipe Massa. It has been quite depressing to see him suffer as Ferrari's, Alonso's and Ramilton's whipping boy this year. No podiums at the moment, no pace, a mere shadow of the driver he used to be. Who knows had he won in Hockenhiem last year, maybe this would have given him an insentive to compete, even with the F150 not being the best car on the grid.

2nd - Williams. You know you're in trouble when you openly sign a pay driver. The usual mutterings about how they've got a good package this year dissolved by the first two races, where they were the only team other than HRT to get neither car to the finish. A pitiful 5 points so far, by far their worst ever season. And then to finish behind a Lotus on merit... They've also had some horendous luck (Monaco comes to mind). With them getting a supply of Renault engines for next season, maybe they can improve. They were however, a lock for ROTY, but, they were overhauled in spectacular fashion by...

1st - Lewis Hamilton. If I had only started watching F1 this season, I would have thought he was in his rookie season. Didn't learn from his reprimand last year at Malaysia for weaving, and then caused an accident with Alonso. After that however, came two of his finest drives to date, at China and Spain, and I actually started to respect the guy again. But then came Monaco, and one of the most atrocious, petulant and unsportsmanlike performances I have ever seen from any driver. Stuffing up his qualifying, ramming Massa off the road in a pathetic move, and then to do the exact same to poor Maldonado at the restart. And of course, to give one of the most childish, offensive interviews I've ever heard. He clearly didn't learn, and in the space of three racing laps at Canada, he managed to crash into three other drivers, the last with Button which thankfully left Button's car intact and Hamilton's terminally damaged. Threw away a clear win at Hungary with a ridiculous spin turn and botched strategy, more nonsense with Maldonado at Spa, before stupidly moving over on Kamui. And to date, three more incidents with Massa. Really amaturish performances this year, not fitting of a world champion.

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 10 Oct 2011, 09:54

I must say if you do consider expectations, Button makes a strong case to be 1st ahead of Vettel, but Vettel's impeccable form and slightly better consistency is very hard to go past.

At the moment, here's my bottom 5 (with 1 being my provisional RotY)

5. Michael Schumacher - has had as many accidents as Lewis, so needs to be considered
4. Jerome D'Ambrosio - Great start to the year but very anonymous after that
3. Lewis Hamilton - It seems his F1 career is in reverse, he makes more mistakes every year almost. Needs better management.
2. Narain Karthikeyan - Tough circumstances, but didn't even impress much, particularly considering what Ricciardo's now doing to Liuzzi.
1. Rubens Barrichello - Despite his supposed 'development' skills, the car is and has remained crap, and he's even getting beaten by Maldonado quite regularly now. Also involved in clumsy accidents such as Melbourne and Spa. Maldonado should be ahead on points without Lewis at Monaco.

VirtuaMcPolygon · Post by **VirtuaMcPolygon** » 10 Oct 2011, 10:30

Karun Chandhok on the sole basis of jumping into a car to impress and then crashing it straight away.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 10 Oct 2011, 11:05

3. Jarno Trulli - A truly anonymous season. Without any spectacular rejectful moments he has shown that he is now past F1 in an anonymous year riddled of complaints about this and that in the car (usually the power steering). If one struggles to remind that he is still driving in F1 then you know it is bad.

2. Wirth Research - They came, they saw and they failed massively. Wirth was convinced he could impose his CFD-only approach and show that it was the way to go. He probably came into F1 10 years early. I don't usually beat the first pioneers who fail only to lead way to more successful ones but everyone saw it was way too early for this approach to work on F1.

1. Williams F1. How the mighty have fallen. They were the first to see one car beaten on merit by one belonging to the so-called new teams. Not to mention they are ninth on the championship and only scored 5 points this season. If they don't improve they might end up battling with Virgin and Lotus/Caterham. Which is rejectful enough.

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 10 Oct 2011, 15:31

3rd - AT&T Williams Grand Prix Engineering Limited Horribly uncompetitive all season. It speaks volumes for their season that had Lewis Hamilton not driven Maldonado off the circuit in Monaco, they'd have twice as many points. 3 points finishes so far this season and they're not likely to get another. Also, their stock flotation was horrible, the prices collapsing spectacularly as soon as the cars shortcomings were put on show. It's recovered a bit now, obviously, but still pretty rejectworthy.

2nd- Genii Lotus Renault GP or whatever the hell they're called It might be odd to put them ahead of Williams, but where we expected Williams to at best be around the low points scoring positions, Renault had retrieved a considerable amount of respectability last year after Crashgate and very much looked like a team on the up. But their season was a disaster in the making before it even started. Let's recap Renault's activities for 2011:
Let their lead driver compete in a rally where he severly injured his hand and could've ended his career. May still do so. I hope not, obviously.
Prompted a ridiculous argument with Team Lotus for use of the name.
Had 3 competetive races.
Went the wrong way on development of a key component and reached the limit on it quickly.
Backward slide down the grid.
Sacked Nick Heidfeld to put in Senna who really hasn't done any better.
Left Mercedes, who aren't that good, totally unchallenged for 4th in the WCC.
There's an outside chance that The Force will leapfrog them into 5th.

1st - Lewis Carl Davidson Hamilton, MBE
To assign ROTY to Lewis may be deemed unfair considering he chalked up 2 race wins and at times was the only person who ever looked like he had a hope of matching Vettel for outright pace, but his amazing knack for crashing into damn near anything that can be crashed into cost him big. And if that wasn't enough, he gave us some tantrums to boot. In terms of maturity and intelligence, Button's shown him up big time.
You can argue that the McLaren's distance from the Red Bull's pace has brought out the worst in him, but if Hamilton wants to be taken seriously as a top driver, then it's no good being at your best only when the going is good. Button's not as quick a driver as him, but he's 32 points up the road in the same machinery, simply for being able to make the best of what he has. Did Senna spend the bulk of 1993 crashing into people? No. Don't get me wrong, against the pace of Red Bull and the clockwork consistency of Vettel, Lewis was never going to win the WDC, but he could have and really should have made more of a contest of it.
So on the basis of the what he's done compared what he should've done this season, Lewis is my ROTY.

Least rejectful (CBA elabourating):
26th: Alonso
27th: Button
28th: Vettel

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 10 Oct 2011, 16:42

Dishonourable mentions - Lewis Hamilton, Renault, Karun Chandhok.

3rd - Jarno Trulli

2nd - Narain Karthikeyan

And it pains me to say this.

1st - Williams

golic_2004 · Post by **golic_2004** » 10 Oct 2011, 19:53

Dishonorable Mentions: Narain Karthikeyan, Jarno Trulli

3. Lewis Hamilton: By all standards his worst season when it comes to silly shunts, problems with others, and overly agressive driving.

2. Nick Heidfeld: All the hype and, aside from the Malaysian Grand Prix, did very little to achieve. He was expected to win (really?) at least one race...did he even make it to Q3 at all?

1. Williams: What was with Williams saying they had the car to beat/that it would be their best season in years? All I saw was a has-been and a pay driver who may have his profile being written down as I write this. But instead of Maldonado alone being Reject of the Year, I might as well give it to the entire Williams.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 10 Oct 2011, 20:21

1: Hamilton, I don't care if he wins all of the remaining races and drives like a true champ, he'd still get first for his unsportsmanlike conduct off and on the track. No, Lewis, it's not because you're black, it's because you left black marks from your tires/nose on other cars on a (seemingly) weekly basis. At least Paul Tracy (PT's team once painted the nose of his car black before a race started once because he earned such a reputation for wrecking other cars) and Dale Earnhardt acted a lot more civilized even when they wrecked other cars. If anyone knows who Michael Waltrip is, Lewis Hamilton is on par with Waltrip for being the Biggest Piece of Shite to Ever Drive a Racecar.

2: Schumacher, He's had a few good drives by his standards, but he really has driven like a 70 year old man with restless leg syndrome on public roads. The difference between Schumacher crashing into other cars and Hamilton crashing into other cars is that I think everyone expected Schumacher to be crap again considering how his 2010 had gone.

3: Barrichello, Wasn't he supposed to be a great development driver? The absolute best man to develop a car? So how are those awesome developments going, Ruby? What's that? You're nearly getting beaten by Fondmetal Team Caterham Malaysia? :lol:

Honorable Mention:

4: Karthikeyan, Frankly, he did better in F1 than in NASCAR trucks, but I think everyone expected that he was going to be really bad anyway.

Post by **mario** » 10 Oct 2011, 21:11

I guess that it is still a little early to judge this award accurately, given that the season isn't quite over, but for what it is worth I might as well offer my thoughts

3. Lewis Hamilton - the only reason why I've tempered this and not put him at the top of the reject podium is that, although his form in recent races has been poor, he did at least start the season with a strong showing (2nd place despite the damaged splitter and having been relatively close to Vettel's pace up until that point) and put in some very good performances in China, Spain and Germany.
Still, his fall from grace since then has been relentless, and you wonder whether he gone into a vicious circle where an accident, and the resultant criticism throughout the media and paddock, causes him to over drive and lose focus when he most needs it.

2. Nick Wirth - for all the boasting about his improved CFD capabilities before the season began, it was soon clear that this years car was, though at least much more reliable, little more than a (barely) updated VR-01. Instead of closing up the gap to the midfield the MVR-02 was no closer, and perhaps further away, than last years car, and soon not only miles behind Team Lotus but beginning to struggle to keep HRT behind them (and this despite HRT not really being properly prepared until the Chinese GP, whereas MVR had taken part in pre-season testing). The upgrade packages that Wirth brought in might have helped things a little, but more than once this season MVR have been very close to not qualifying, which is exactly what Wirth was supposed to help them avoid.

Moreover, Wirth's long term prospects look to be dimming - he'd staked a lot on his partnership with MVR because Acura, his other major client, cut their ARX-02a program in 2010 (the ACO's cost cap regulations meant that the 02a was ineligible and Acura wouldn't fund development of a new model), so unless the ARX-03a program succeeds, wirth might be out of motorsport altogether...

1. Williams GP - this has been their least competitive season ever (and all the more sobering considering Williams had been on the up in recent years), the car is (unsurprisingly) almost completely devoid of sponsors now, save for Maldonado's PDVSA sponsorship, the stock market flotation has been a failure and the senior management have come under increasing pressure as Sam Michael's departure hasn't answered the questions over Williams's long term development capabilities. The return of Couglan hasn't exactly gone down well amongst the rest of the paddock, and to add insults to injury their customer team, HRT, are now looking to Mercedes (with the wind tunnel deal) instead of Williams to develop their 2012 car.

Williams really have to hope that their 2012 car, with a (hopefully more competitive) Renault engine is a vast improvement - another year or two of results like this, and the associated drop in TV revenue, could push the team to financial breaking point.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 10 Oct 2011, 21:41

I think the choice would be obvious: Williams win this in a dominating way. Seriously, 5 points in the current points system?

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 10 Oct 2011, 22:00

This wrote:I think the choice would be obvious: Williams win this in a dominating way. Seriously, 5 points in the current points system?

That would be 0 points in the 2003-09 points system.

Shadaza · Post by **Shadaza** » 10 Oct 2011, 22:33

3- Mark Webber

Lewis Hamilton may have had his ups and downs, but I can't really think of a single up for Webber, he had a couple of pole positions but threw them away at the first corner, Vettel has been running circles around him and he hasn't responded 1 bit.

2- The Lotus debacle, both claiming lotus, neither deserve it, neither have been as quick on track as expected and both were very disappointing all round.

1- Williams. Not only rejects of the year but if you had a compliation of all of the previous years then I think Williams 2011 "win" the worst performance award. Slow car is understating it, the only teams slower are teams with a much smaller budget with less experienced key staff and with poorer facillities. Pastor Maldonado and Rubens Barrichello is hardly a world beating line up but both them deserve better then that piece of garbage, if the links of Kimi Raikkonen are true and also the confirmed partnering of a Renault engine come up good then Williams have promise for next year, however this is a worse downward slope then the 2006 disaster.

Another sad fact is Williams are the last team since Redbull to score an F1 pole posistion, sure it was flukey but that just show how monumentally bad this years car is. It makes me sad.

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 11 Oct 2011, 10:49

Cynon wrote:(PT's team once painted the nose of his car black before a race started once because he earned such a reputation for wrecking other cars)

Mid-Ohio 2001 IIRC, and then he got put on probation again after something like a race or two. :lol:

I'm gonna leave my votes until the end of the season, but truth be told, it just has to be Williams, and I really don't wanna say that, but there's really no other choice at the moment.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 11 Oct 2011, 11:13

I too think Webber and Massa have been far worse than Hamilton compared to their respective teammates. The points gaps to their respective teammates is much bigger than Hamilton's to Button's. (And although Hamilton is a WDC and the other two not, they both were within one race of doing so)

So my podium:

Bronze: Webber (partly because I'm going to lose my bet on him that he would finish ahead of Button in the standings)
Silver: Massa
Gold: Williams as much as it pains me to say it

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 11 Oct 2011, 11:59

James1978 wrote:I too think Webber and Massa have been far worse than Hamilton compared to their respective teammates. The points gaps to their respective teammates is much bigger than Hamilton's to Button's. (And although Hamilton is a WDC and the other two not, they both were within one race of doing so)

I believe that the thing with Hamilton is those huge expectations on his shoulders. People expected Hamilton to wipe the floor with Button (me included) but this did not happen and it is Button that is leading at the moment. At the same time no one expected Button to be where he is, leading the fight against Vettel (I think we can stop saying Red Bulls, because Webber is nowhere near his team-mate). The onus of proof is that Button, being second in the championship, having the 2nd fastest car and matching Vettel's race pace while beating his team-mate to the line in most of the second half of the season, is being voted for the infinite improbability drive of the race in Suzuka. If it was Hamilton instead, no one would dream of voting for him except if McLaren was expected to be far off the pace, which was not the case. Like most though, I think that it is Button who is doing his job while Hamilton is going through some difficulties, but given Button relations with the team it is probable that this tendency is maintained in the future. It is true that Button doesn't have the raw speed of Hamilton but Button looks to be more intelligent that Hamilton and that may be enough in certain situations. Conclusion, Hamilton is over-hyped. Again.

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 11 Oct 2011, 13:43

For me it is close between Mark Webber, Lewis Hamilton and Williams, but I will defer final judgement until the end of the season, heres why:

Mark Webber - For a driver who so nearly won the title last year, and who is driving clearly the best car, just 8 podiums, no wins and 4th in the championship is a very poor return. He has squandered a couple of pole positions and front row grid slots with poor starts too. Mark will need to win one of the last four races to escape Reject of the Year.

Lewis Hamilton - In total meltdown right now, first it was clumsy overtaking moves, but in Suzuka he showed poor judgement in qualifying and poor pace (while his team mate won the race) as well. Still, he has won two races this year with brilliant drives. Lewis needs to win at least one race, finish consistently well and stay out of trouble with stewards to escape the title.

Williams - No real promise and no real pace, their worst year ever, they need to either score some more points or have Hamilton and Webber fail miserably in the last four races to escape their second RoTY award, my "title favourites".

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 11 Oct 2011, 13:54

James1978 wrote:I too think Webber and Massa have been far worse than Hamilton compared to their respective teammates. The points gaps to their respective teammates is much bigger than Hamilton's to Button's. (And although Hamilton is a WDC and the other two not, they both were within one race of doing so)

Well I think it's not just Hamilton's performances that people are disappointed with, it's his mistakes, attitude and tendency for accidents.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 11 Oct 2011, 16:05

My own personal Reject of the Year podium:

3º - Vitantonio Liuzzi: he was supposed to mince Narain Karthikeyan but he wasn't, in truth, all that better. However, what gets him in my RoTY podium is definately how his performance is comparing with that of Daniel Ricciardo. No doubt about the fact the Australian is very talented, but Liuzzi is a seasoned driver and is really losing out to the Red Bull-endorsed driver, and that should just not happen, much less considering the fact Ricciardo arrived at mid-season.

2º - Rubens Barrichello: where is the guy who was so motivated last year and scored 47 points? This year, Barrichello seemed overly subdued by the lamentable level of quality of his car. Not only Maldonado is having the upper hand in qualifying, but is also worth remembering that, had Hamilton not taken him out at Monaco, he'd be outscoring Barrichello too. He just seems to let time go by until he announces his retirement.

1º - Renault: and to think they began the season with two podiums and his car being better than the Ferrari... The loss of Robert Kubica in that rally crash was a blow, but still, the team has shown a conspicuous lack of ability to properly develop the car and at least try to keep their level of performance from the beginning of the year. Add to that the conflict over the Lotus naming rights with Tony Fernandes and the relative lack of funds and, voila, the most improved team of last year gets RoTY this time. Remember, this ranking is partly based on expectations...

TheBigJ · Post by **TheBigJ** » 11 Oct 2011, 19:17

1) Mark Webber...such a nice guy though. Hasn't won in the best car by a country mile at the start, when Alonso has won in his geriatric Ferrari. Shocking...
2) The John Deere Caterham Maylasia Lotus'...what ever happened to mid-table?
3) Rubens Barrichello...shocking. His teamate is way cooler...cmon ruby!

IceG · Post by **IceG** » 11 Oct 2011, 22:37

ROTY - the Bahrain Grand Prix

This was the worst performance by anything involved in F1 EVER. There were people dying in the streets and doctors being locked up for treating the wounded. And no-one with any power in F1 took a moral stance to just say "No". Everything else; petulant drivers, arguments over names, poor No.2 drivers, under-performing teams, etc. is all totally irrelevant in comparison. F1 is just a rich man's game with really great toys NOT life and death.

golic_2004 · Post by **golic_2004** » 12 Oct 2011, 19:27

Cynon wrote:4: Karthikeyan, Frankly, he did better in F1 than in NASCAR trucks, but I think everyone expected that he was going to be really bad anyway.

He didn't do all that bad in NASCAR Trucks, especially considering he had never been to any of the tracks. Could have won at Talladega too. It was a testing moment for him doing NASCAR.+

Priceless · Post by **Priceless** » 13 Oct 2011, 05:49

This is not definitive, but I already have a partial list... which may change depending on how the rest of the season plays out.

3rd: Vitantonio Liuzzi - it seems to me that the reigning ROTY could be heading to a back-to-back title, just as Vettel with the WDC. He's actually losing to Ricciardo, his only fair comparison since HRT can't really match the other cars...

2nd: Lewis Hamilton - as already said here, I also expected Hamilton to have the measure of Button throughout the season, but what happened was the inverse... Button making the most out of the McLaren car and delivering excellent performances, and doing that by always keeping his cool, while Hamilton seems incapable of doing that at present - shown by the crashes and over-aggressive moves we've seen lately. However, past results show that Hamilton is every last bit as capable of extracting the maximum performance of a car as Button is - he just needs the right state of mind, which Button has and Hamilton seems to be lacking this year.

1st: Williams F1 - If this is drivers only, it must go to Barrichello - saddens me, as a Brazilian F1 fan, to say this, but it's a harsh reality; even with Williams' car being as bad as it is he's been beaten by Maldonado for the last few races, it seems that the 19 consecutive seasons are taking their toll - looks like it's time for him to Hang Up The Keys. But as many have done, I'd give the provisional ROTY title to Williams as a whole - it's sad to see a team that once had a car that was called 'other-worldly' by none other than Ayrton Senna in this state. I sincerely hope their 2012 package can be more competitive...

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 13 Oct 2011, 06:01

I want to stop the Liuzzi hate right in its tracks. People are hating on him because he didn't beat Karthikeyan enough, isn't that probably more good on Narain's part than bad on Tonio's part? Meaning, that Narain did a much better job than was expected? Plus, Ricciardo hasn't beaten Liuzzi on merit as yet. Singapore, Liuzzi lost his wing during that race as well as Daniel, and Suzuka was simply a dreadful weekend for Liuzzi. Did something like 18 laps before Sunday.

If Tonio gets ROTY again, i'll burn your houses down! :evil:

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 13 Oct 2011, 07:21

Peter wrote:I want to stop the Liuzzi hate right in its tracks. People are hating on him because he didn't beat Karthikeyan enough, isn't that probably more good on Narain's part than bad on Tonio's part? Meaning, that Narain did a much better job than was expected? Plus, Ricciardo hasn't beaten Liuzzi on merit as yet. Singapore, Liuzzi lost his wing during that race as well as Daniel, and Suzuka was simply a dreadful weekend for Liuzzi. Did something like 18 laps before Sunday.

If Tonio gets ROTY again, i'll burn your houses down!

Karthikeyan is a pay-driver who last drove an F1 car in 2005 and spent the intermediary time racing NASCAR trucks. Liuzzi is there to get results. If Kathikeyan can keep up with him, that doesn't spell wonders for him - after his miserable 2009, the onus is on Liuzzi to pull something special out of the bag, like say, mixing it with the Virgin's and Lotus', not make Karthikeyan look half-decent. Same with Ricciardo - the general opinion is Ricciardo is outperforming Liuzzi. It doesn't matter if Liuzzi has had issues, Ricciardo was taking it to the Virgin's in the race, something Liuzzi hasn't done yet.

Sorry, but Liuzzi has brought this on himself. The guy has talent, he showed that last year at Korea. The problem is he has a seeming inability to show it more than once every couple of years or so. And in F1, that just won't cut it.

KL-racer · Post by **KL-racer** » 13 Oct 2011, 20:04

well, here's my podium for ROTY so far
3rd: Jerome D' Ambrosio: Virgin failed AGAIN in terms of a second driver. First, we had Lucas di grassi in 2010, but he got sacked for d' Ambrosio during the 2010 silly-season. When he got the seat, he can't produce better results, and add the fact that according to a speed.com article there's now THREE pay drivers willing to pay more money than he gives now, and it's pretty easy to see that they are considering sacking their second straight "2nd" driver in as many seasons!
2nd: Lewis Hamiliton: There is no doubt that he is indeed foolish most of the time! But when his head was straight, he could be a good driver, but that didn't happen enough times and he made way too many amateurish mistakes. In the end, I had to put him on this podium but the ROTY for now is . . .
1st: Rubens Barrichello: If teams would qualify for this award, I would give it to the ENTIRE williams team, but if it's drivers only, I would give it to barrichello, because he's way past his prime and he can't seem to leave F1 and retire! If he doesn't retire after this year, I would be pissed off!!!

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 13 Oct 2011, 20:10

My three choices (in no particular order - the numbers are just to seperate the concepts out):

i). Williams: Is this really the same team that got me interested in F1 in the early and mid-1990s?

ii). The Bahrain GP: Need I say more? The surprise is to see it on the calendar for early next year, when nothing politically has been sorted out yet.

iii). A10 World Series & Superleague Formula: One was promised to start this month with a lot of hype in January, only to petter out by February. The other promised an expanded calendar into South America and Asia and ended up holding only two rounds all year, neither of which I have the slightest recollection of, despite have an interest in the series!

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 13 Oct 2011, 23:45

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
Peter wrote:I want to stop the Liuzzi hate right in its tracks. People are hating on him because he didn't beat Karthikeyan enough, isn't that probably more good on Narain's part than bad on Tonio's part? Meaning, that Narain did a much better job than was expected? Plus, Ricciardo hasn't beaten Liuzzi on merit as yet. Singapore, Liuzzi lost his wing during that race as well as Daniel, and Suzuka was simply a dreadful weekend for Liuzzi. Did something like 18 laps before Sunday.

If Tonio gets ROTY again, i'll burn your houses down!

Karthikeyan is a pay-driver who last drove an F1 car in 2005 and spent the intermediary time racing NASCAR trucks. Liuzzi is there to get results. If Kathikeyan can keep up with him, that doesn't spell wonders for him - after his miserable 2009, the onus is on Liuzzi to pull something special out of the bag, like say, mixing it with the Virgin's and Lotus', not make Karthikeyan look half-decent. Same with Ricciardo - the general opinion is Ricciardo is outperforming Liuzzi. It doesn't matter if Liuzzi has had issues, Ricciardo was taking it to the Virgin's in the race, something Liuzzi hasn't done yet.

Sorry, but Liuzzi has brought this on himself. The guy has talent, he showed that last year at Korea. The problem is he has a seeming inability to show it more than once every couple of years or so. And in F1, that just won't cut it.

What? Liuzzi has tangled with Lotii and Virgins several times this year, he has manged to get into a battle with a Virgin at almost every race. I'm not going to sit by and watch Ricciardo get credited for doing something that's nothing new to HRT.

In regards to Karthikeyan, I was saying that Liuzzi not doing what was expected and wiping the floor with Karthikeyan is more down to Narain being under rated, and actually being a worthy teammate for the Italian, who has gotten back into the groove of open wheeled racing just fine, and who isn't the rubbish you all have him out to be, rather than Liuzzi just under performing and not doing a good job. You're putting Karthikeyan in the "rubbish zone" and dragging Liuzzi down there with him because of his inability to beat him by enough for your standards. Perhaps Karthikeyan ought not be in the "rubbish zone" to begin with?

Eryx · Post by **Eryx** » 14 Oct 2011, 17:17

The year isnt out but...meh

3.Felipe Massa - Ever since his accident hes never recover'd ....

2.Virgin - GUESS!!!! still beaten by HRT so far even though they do have a faster car.

1.Lewis Hamilton - Constantly accidents and making dumb mistakes.....colliding with massa allot

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 14 Oct 2011, 17:56

I agree with Blindcavesalamander. Liuzzi is a decent enough driver, he just needs to perform more often, he really should have got that 3rd top-6 finish last year.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 14 Oct 2011, 18:10

redbulljack14 wrote:I agree with Blindcavesalamander. Liuzzi is a decent enough driver, he just needs to perform, he really should have got that 3rd top-6 finish last year.

Fixed.

By the way, the reason why Liuzzi should not get RoTY is because of low expectations...

GwilymJJames · Post by **GwilymJJames** » 15 Oct 2011, 04:33

3rd: Renault

Reasons have been given above by others.

2nd: Lotus, Virgin, HRT (joint award)

They've been in F1 for (almost) two years. The last team not to have a top-ten finish by the end of their first season was EuroBrun. The new teams really should start thinking about maybe challenging Williams regularly soon.

1st: Williams

Reasons have been given above by others.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 15 Oct 2011, 13:58

GwilymJJames wrote:
2nd: Lotus, Virgin, HRT (joint award)

They've been in F1 for (almost) two years. The last team not to have a top-ten finish by the end of their first season was EuroBrun. The new teams really should start thinking about maybe challenging Williams regularly soon.

This is not like 20/30 years ago. Reliability has improved massively ever since, and if any of "our" reject teams managed to qualify for a race and finish it, they could well walk away with a top ten result through pure attrition. Today, only three or four cars at most use to retire from races. This way, it's very difficult for teams to achieve top ten results. I reckon, however, that Lotus might be in the midfield by next year, but MVR and HRT will take a couple more years before if everything goes well for them.