Heidfeld In Risk Of Losing Seat?

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 31 May 2011, 13:08

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91912

I think we could see Bruno Senna in a Renault. Although I'd definitely prefer RRRMMMMMMNNNNNNN.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 31 May 2011, 13:16

I wouldn't sack him. I think he's doing a fine job at the moment, slightly unlucky at times.

I looked, and turns out he's 6th in the Drivers Championship, albeit 40 points behind Alonso in 5th.

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 31 May 2011, 13:28

Renault won't sack him, either, at least not at current performance rate. They just want to push him more forward, but there's nothing about replacing him with anybody.

Anyway, Montrealand possibly a chaos race is coming up, Nick will be good there, just remember 2007 & 2008.

jpm · Post by **jpm** » 31 May 2011, 13:31

This is porofundly wierd; Heidfeld is beating Petrov in the points, and its points that win prizes, not qualifying pace. Overall, its hughly unprofessional of Boullier to come out in the press like that, and it wouldn't surprise me if this is just publicrap to keep Lotus Renault in the news afterTeam Lotus were allowed to keep their name.

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 31 May 2011, 13:44

jpm wrote:This is porofundly wierd; Heidfeld is beating Petrov in the points, and its points that win prizes, not qualifying pace. Overall, its hughly unprofessional of Boullier to come out in the press like that, and it wouldn't surprise me if this is just publicrap to keep Lotus Renault in the news afterTeam Lotus were allowed to keep their name.

It's down to money - simple as that. Petrov brings money into the team through sponsorship - Heidfeld needs results to justify his position in the team. He really needs to be domniating Petrov...

Row Man Gross-Gene · Post by **Row Man Gross-Gene** » 31 May 2011, 13:46

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:I'd definitely prefer RRRMMMMMMNNNNNNN.

+1!

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 31 May 2011, 14:07

Lotus Renault is not like Toro Rosso, so I think that he will stay. Besides, in Spain he had a terrific race trouncing his team-mate and gaining some points in the process. And in Monaco he did a fine job. It seems to me that Boullier is still living in pre-season winning expectations.

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 31 May 2011, 14:17

I think it depends on what happens with Kubica's recovery in the next few months.

If it looks like he will be back during next year, they'll keep Heidfeld, but if it looks like Kubica may never return, they may as well try Grosjean or Senna as Heidfeld's not going to get any better now.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 31 May 2011, 14:38

I wonder how much of this is Renault falling back and pegging the blame on the hired temp. Last time I heard of it, Renault was under some financial stress - I remember hearing in early April that Bahar et al. still hadn't paid in a penny to the team, despite promising the world... the team seems to be falling back on the development of the car, especially when compared with Mercedes and even Sauber.

Anyway, inability to clear Petrov consistently isn't something ol' Nick will want to put on CV.

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 31 May 2011, 15:32

I wonder also how much car development experience, Nick is currently bringing to the Renault party & whether that is enough to justify him staying over & above a relative rookie like Bruno Senna?

As Carlos has pointed out above, on the evidence of the past few races it does seem that Renualt has drop back on the development race. So depend on how their next upgrades should fair, might give us a clue as to whether Nick is pointing the team in the right direction or not? Remember last year, that Renault always seemed to find good gains with any new upgrades they brought. Of course their will be other factors affecting the performance of their upgrades (cost, etc) but at least it will be an indication as to whether Nick is helping to pointing the team in the right direction or not?

My take on Eric Bollier's comments is simply intended to jee-up Nick, particularly in qualifying. Personally I think it would be unwise for Renualt to get rid of him at this stage, purely based on his quali performances.

Aside for the additional disruption it would cause the team (something they can surely do without), as stated earlier, at the end of the day its races performances that matter. In this regard Nick's races have been generally solid (if unspeculatar). Furthermore I think Nick has the ability to improve on his Quali performances (maybe he is still a little rusty / not 100% comfortable with the car in quali). Whatever the problem is, surely Nick is experienced & clever enough to realise that this is perhaps his last F1 chance & therefore he must overcome whatever problem in quali he is currently experiencing. Whether he can do that or not is of course another matter, but i'd say at least give him until mid season to prove his worth.

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 31 May 2011, 16:06

I went into this season angry Bruno Senna didn't get the Renault seat, expecting Nick Heidfeld to be a major disappointment. Now, I think he deserves it, at least until Kubica is fit to return. I hope Renault can pick up it's pace though, I'd really like to see another podium before the year is out.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 31 May 2011, 16:19

Whilst I agree that getting rid of Heidfeld would be unwise, and that he's done an okay job so far this season, I still believe they should have put Senna in alongside Petrov. I mean, with the exception of his podium in Malaysia, is there anything that Nick has done that Bruno couldn't have? Petrov has matured well so far this season compared with last year's exploits, so I really don't think he needs Heidfeld alongside him as an experienced hand this year like he did with Kubica in his debut season. Plus I'm fed up with all these old drivers being given far too many chances in a sport where places are limited and young drivers are queuing up to get in! Get Heidfeld, Trulli and Barrichello out, hell even Sutil if he keeps getting beaten by Di Resta! Plus Webber and Massa look past it now! Let's get some fresh blood into the sport and get some new potential future world champions onto the grid!

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 31 May 2011, 16:50

AndreaModa wrote:Whilst I agree that getting rid of Heidfeld would be unwise, and that he's done an okay job so far this season, I still believe they should have put Senna in alongside Petrov. I mean, with the exception of his podium in Malaysia, is there anything that Nick has done that Bruno couldn't have? Petrov has matured well so far this season compared with last year's exploits, so I really don't think he needs Heidfeld alongside him as an experienced hand this year like he did with Kubica in his debut season. Plus I'm fed up with all these old drivers being given far too many chances in a sport where places are limited and young drivers are queuing up to get in! Get Heidfeld, Trulli and Barrichello out, hell even Sutil if he keeps getting beaten by Di Resta! Plus Webber and Massa look past it now! Let's get some fresh blood into the sport and get some new potential future world champions onto the grid!

I half agree, some of the drivers are bringing valuable experience to the team. Trulli and Massa are doing nothing for their teams, Trulli should have retired when Career Poison F1 Team pulled out. Massa has also been useless, his injury is part of it, because in 2008, and 2009 up to his injury, he was great.

Benetton · Post by **Benetton** » 31 May 2011, 18:29

He's sixth in the drivers!! So he won't get replaced/sacked/dumped.

He needs to improve his qualifying pace though to maximize results.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 31 May 2011, 18:32

Benetton wrote:He's sixth in the drivers!! So he won't get replaced/sacked/dumped.

He needs to improve his qualifying pace though to maximize results.

Good point there...

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 31 May 2011, 18:45

CarlosFerreira wrote:
Benetton wrote:He's sixth in the drivers!! So he won't get replaced/sacked/dumped.

He needs to improve his qualifying pace though to maximize results.

Good point there...

Indeed it is.

He is even ahead of both Mercedes drivers and nobody considers Renault faster than Mercedes...

EDIT: And ahead of Massa...

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 31 May 2011, 19:31

To be honest, I think he seems to be doing exactly the job I thought Renault had hired him for!

Post by **mario** » 31 May 2011, 20:05

redbulljack14 wrote:I wouldn't sack him. I think he's doing a fine job at the moment, slightly unlucky at times.

I looked, and turns out he's 6th in the Drivers Championship, albeit 40 points behind Alonso in 5th.

It has to be said that his qualifying form has been poor - he was 18th in Australia (admittedly with malfunctioning KERS and heavy traffic spoiling his last attempt), 6th in Malaysia, 16th in China (though that was due to Petrov blocking the track when he broke down, preventing anybody bettering their times), 9th in Turkey, couldn't take to the track in Spain due to that fire he had in final practise and 16th in Monaco. OK, so in several instances, Heidfeld was unlucky to be outqualified by Petrov, but Petrov has still managed to outqualify Heidfeld consistently.
That said, whilst Heidfeld has had some misfortune in some races - such as in Australia, where his sidepod was ripped open on the first lap - Petrov has had a little bit of bad luck too. Don't forget, in Monaco Petrov was running in 7th, with Heidfeld in 10th, before his accident with Alguersuari put him out of the race. If the race had finished in that order, then Heidfeld would have 27 points, with Petrov on 25 - which is pretty close between the two drivers.

I agree, though, that overall Heidfeld is doing a solid enough job - he is doing exactly what he was expected to do, which is to keep the car running until the end of the race and getting points where possible. It partially why Heidfeld is in 6th place in the WDC, which is, incidentally, the same position Kubica was in last year. The problem is, this year it looks like it will be harder to snatch podiums from the bigger teams - overall, the drivers in the top teams have been more consistent, as well as having better reliability, compared to 2010. It's not for nothing that the top four drivers have all scored significantly more points than they had at this stage last year (especially Vettel) - with the podium featuring the same usual faces, and cars less likely to break down, how else are either Renault driver going to get a podium save for abnormal conditions?

Coupled to that, development on the R31 is faltering - Petrov, after all, might be qualifying better than Heidfeld, but his qualifying performances have slid back as the season has worn on. Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari are as far away as ever, and compared to last year, there seem to be fewer new parts coming to the car per race. Remember how you'd normally see a modified front wing endplate here, or a small turning vein there? We saw that for the first two to three races, but recently the updates seem to have slowed down, and so has their relative performance.

The fact that a few rumours of money problems at Renault - after all, Boullier did admit that the team had overspent last year, which probably meant that they had to cut back for this year - is probably hurting them too. And even on tracks which were thought so suit them, they were not especially strong - in Monaco, both drivers were complaining that they simply couldn't attack the corners because the bumps were unsettling the car. Perhaps, if Mercedes struggles to develop the W02, Renault could get 4th in the WCC - but compared to where they wanted to be, the development of the R31 has disappointed them and the public at large.

So, overall, I think that Boullier is possibly attacking Heidfeld to deflect attention from the fact that Renault as a whole are not as competitive as they hoped, and seem to be losing, instead of making up, ground. With the car he has at his disposal, Heidfeld has done as much as could be reasonably expected (best of the rest behind the top three teams). But, given that Renault wanted to be much closer to the front, I think that Boullier is keener to blame a driver that they brought in from outside, rather than the team itself and the slight slide in performance of the car as a whole.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 31 May 2011, 22:02

It would be unfair if Heidfeld lost his seat, which in all likelihood won't happen. He's doing a good job, and having a good turn of race pace, and I don't think he's struggling that badly in qualifying (save for this weekend). Probably if it's true that Group Lotus isn't delivering the money it promised, then it's understandable that their performances are falling down, dragging its drivers along. Which is a shame because the car itself is quite good. I really hope they can bounce back, Petrov has a lot of potential and Heidfeld can do a great points-collecting job.

And no, I don't think Bruno Senna or Romain Grosjean would do a better job. They're inexperienced and, apart from making mistakes from time to time, Renault wouldn't have someone with a good technical input to try to develop the car (I don't think Renault is interested in the "secret features" of the HRT F110).

jpm · Post by **jpm** » 31 May 2011, 22:08

AndreaModa wrote:Whilst I agree that getting rid of Heidfeld would be unwise, and that he's done an okay job so far this season, I still believe they should have put Senna in alongside Petrov. I mean, with the exception of his podium in Malaysia, is there anything that Nick has done that Bruno couldn't have?

What's all the fuss about Senna? He was comprehensively destroyed by Klien in quali when he had had no testing, was mediocre against the lacklustre Chandhok and was even beaten by Sakon Yamamoto. In GP2, he was beaten by Giorgio Pantano, and was never that quick in sportscars either. Whilst he may have the name, Grosjean is a far better talent (did anyone see him ass 3 people in 1 go in Barcelona), and yet I still believe Heidfeld will do a better job than both. If anyone other than Nick should be in the car, it shouldn't be Senna, thats all I'm saying. It should be Grosjean or Sam Bird!

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 31 May 2011, 23:04

Senna didn't get equal treatment in HRT afaik. And in the last qualifying session of the year, it was horrible.

Anyway, if you use the "Pantano" argument, then I'll use this: He beat Grosjean, Buemi, Petrov, Maldonado, Chandhok and D'Ambrosio. And crushed his teammates.

I think he's been doing pretty well for a guy with that little experience behind him. At the age of 14 I had more racing experience then he had at the age of 22 when he started in F3. I also don't think the HRT-time is a good indication of his, or Chandhoks talent. And when Brawn also chose Barrichello because of his experience, it does prove that he has something other than his last name.

I also don't think Grosjean will let Renault destroy his chances to win GP2 again (that would make it three seasons).

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 01 Jun 2011, 01:07

Row Man Gross-Gene wrote:
Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:I'd definitely prefer RRRMMMMMMNNNNNNN.

+1!

-2! Roman isn't exactly bad, but he's better off getting the GP2 championship, getting some sponsorship along with it, and getting a full time drive somewhere else, because he won't have a permanent seat at Renault if Bobbie is coming back. And his form in 2009 proved that he's not a driver they can fall back on, and he won't get enough time to straighten himself out. Senna is arguably faster and more reliable than him. Bruno isn't a mistake-maker, and has good speed, and he's actually tested the car before. And though his spot wouldn't be permanent either if Bobbie is coming back, he'd be able to prove himself of worth to be no the F1 grid and get himself a seat elsewhere.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 01 Jun 2011, 01:29

He's not in risk of losing his drive -- it's just Boullier's way of getting more out of a driver.

GroupLotusRenault · Post by **GroupLotusRenault** » 01 Jun 2011, 05:27

If they sack him who would be just as good as him or better? Its not Senna or R.G. Maybe Boullier wants another pay driver

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 01 Jun 2011, 06:49

I find Boullier's comments really silly to be honest, yes qualifying has been a little setback, but as already said, in race-trim he has been quick, just go back to Spain, started 24th and beat his teammate who started 6th. During the practice for Monaco, Crofty informed us all that Petrov had even gone on record and said he wouldn't bother with Q2 or Q3 from then on as it was clear starting further back was an advantage. Renault can't really say he's disappointed when he's running in 6th overall in the championship

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 02 Jun 2011, 10:43

Why the clamour for Senna? How about the chap who outperformed him last year, Sakhon Yamamoto? Or that other chap who outperformed him- Narun Chandhok? Or that other chap who outperformed him- Christian Klien?

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 02 Jun 2011, 11:58

I really want to see Christian Klien get a decent drive in F1. 2006 was probably a stain on his reputation, but lest we forget he was supposed to get RBR's first podium, and his performances in the HRT should be enough to forgive anything he did in 2006. Otherwise, would like to see him go to IndyCar, perhaps with NHR.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 02 Jun 2011, 12:12

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:I really want to see Christian Klien get a decent drive in F1. 2006 was probably a stain on his reputation, but lest we forget he was supposed to get RBR's first podium, and his performances in the HRT should be enough to forgive anything he did in 2006. Otherwise, would like to see him go to IndyCar, perhaps with NHR.

I am afraid that 2006 is a too big stain...

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 02 Jun 2011, 12:20

DanielPT wrote:
Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:I really want to see Christian Klien get a decent drive in F1. 2006 was probably a stain on his reputation, but lest we forget he was supposed to get RBR's first podium, and his performances in the HRT should be enough to forgive anything he did in 2006. Otherwise, would like to see him go to IndyCar, perhaps with NHR.

I am afraid that 2006 is a too big stain...

Right, then we'll plop him in an HRT, and he'll win a race ala-Mario Dominguez Surfers 2003.

Shame really. But I feel talent-wise, he's not too far from Glock, Sutil or Heikki.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 02 Jun 2011, 12:58

Myrvold wrote:Senna didn't get equal treatment in HRT afaik.

Don't get me wrong, but that line made me laugh :mrgreen:

The notion of "didn't get equal treatment" in an environment such as HRT's, I mean. With no car improvements at all I'm not sure how you can really give an unequal treatment to your drivers.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 02 Jun 2011, 17:19

Ferrim wrote:
Myrvold wrote:Senna didn't get equal treatment in HRT afaik.

Don't get me wrong, but that line made me laugh The notion of "didn't get equal treatment" in an environment such as HRT's, I mean. With no car improvements at all I'm not sure how you can really give an unequal treatment to your drivers.

I think you'll find Andrea Moda were just as bad, or if anything, worse. And they managed to give unequal treatment between Moreno and McCarthy.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 02 Jun 2011, 17:57

Ferrim wrote:
Myrvold wrote:Senna didn't get equal treatment in HRT afaik.

Don't get me wrong, but that line made me laugh The notion of "didn't get equal treatment" in an environment such as HRT's, I mean. With no car improvements at all I'm not sure how you can really give an unequal treatment to your drivers.

Didn't they have some weight upgrades (or downgrades)?

And also, it goes for qualiruns and tyres.

Post by **mario** » 02 Jun 2011, 17:59

Well, James Allen has written an article about Boullier's recent comments, along with an interview that Boullier gave to L'Equipe last weekend, and it seems that some of the comments that Boullier said were much more cutting than reported at first.

He makes it pretty clear that part of the reason why they went for Kubica was because he had very strong leadership skills outside of the car - and the determination to "bang his fist on the table" (quite literally) to get things done. To be honest, I can see why Heidfeld's not so comfortable in that role - his attitude out of the car has generally been much quieter and more collaborative instead of domineering.
In the L'Equipe article, it seems that Heidfeld got no mention at all (unsurprisingly) - but, even though he did compliment Petrov's progression, Boullier was also pretty disparaging about Petrov in other areas. He goes on to complain about how much management Petrov requires:

Perhaps the most surprising comment is that Boullier has seen the need to put in place a fix-it man for Petrov, having identified that he’s not very good at basic self-care, “He needed someone to guide him, to get him about, to tell him how to behave at the track, what time to wake up, have breakfast, how to manage his day, be on time for meetings and so on,” he said.

And, to make matters worse, he then went on to complain about the "arrogance" of Petrov's former English engineers and trainers (he now has a Spanish trainer, along with Japanese and French engineers) - considering that his team is officially English, based in England and predominantly staffed by English team members, I can imagine that those comments would feel like a bit of a slap in the face to them.

On top of that, Boullier then goes on to mention that Genii want to take on a much more active role in managing the team this year, having left the team and the previous management to its own devices in 2010.

But the really interesting point Boullier wants to make in the interview is that he seems to be on the verge of making some changes to the way the team operates at a management level. “It’s time to turn a page in our reconstruction of the team.,” he says. “In 2010 we (Genii) didn’t look into the track activities, we didn’t want to destabilise the team. We focussed on getting the factory right and efficient. Now it’s time to attack the next job, I would say that we are lacking an efficient management at the race track.”

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/06/r ... /#comments

All in all, I wonder if Boullier has made a bit of an error in judgement with that interview - marginalising Heidfeld is not going to improve his confidence, and it's hard to expect a complete outsider to simply walk in and throw his weight about like the guy he is only temporarily replacing. Petrov, meanwhile, probably won't appreciate the fact that Boullier makes it look like he needs 24 hour attention and cannot fend for himself, and implicitly insulting the senior pit crew (with the remarks about arrogance) aren't going to improve relations within the team, and make Boullier look like the more arrogant of the two.

Row Man Gross-Gene · Post by **Row Man Gross-Gene** » 02 Jun 2011, 23:47

Okay, let's just look at this logically Mr. Boullier.

1. Which imbecile gave Kubica leave to race in a rally of no import weeks before the start of the season? This person, along with Kubica, deserves the blame for the lack of a "fist-pounding" presence in the team this season.

2. To the extent you blame a lack of "at track management" for poor performances, I assume you accept full responsibility as the top manager for your team at the track for each race.

3. I'm sure you'd be doing just fine without Petrov's sponsorship money, so feel free to send him packing. Certainly Genii's and Group Lotus' immense cash investment would be more than enough to sustain you in your fight for the championship.

Go home Eric Boullier!

GroupLotusRenault · Post by **GroupLotusRenault** » 03 Jun 2011, 00:40

Like mario said if the team is english based in England, why try and make them speak french??? How many updates have the team made compared to last year to their car?

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 03 Jun 2011, 01:32

Ferrim wrote:
Myrvold wrote:Senna didn't get equal treatment in HRT afaik.

Don't get me wrong, but that line made me laugh The notion of "didn't get equal treatment" in an environment such as HRT's, I mean. With no car improvements at all I'm not sure how you can really give an unequal treatment to your drivers.

Karun was bringing in the bulk of money, so most of the teams effort, what little effort that may be ,was being put inot pushing him forward over Bruno. Karun got upgrades, by upgrades I mean things that are standard on F1 cars that HRT didn't have yet, before Senna did. Things like the suspension made from carbon rather than steel, the fuel tank, and many other mechanical parts, he got first. That's why Senna was plagued with retirements for the first half of the season, while Karun sailed from finish to finish. Karun was actually even given an offer for 2011, while Senna was really not even seen as a future option for the team.

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 03 Jun 2011, 01:48

Peter wrote:
Ferrim wrote:
Myrvold wrote:Senna didn't get equal treatment in HRT afaik.

Don't get me wrong, but that line made me laugh The notion of "didn't get equal treatment" in an environment such as HRT's, I mean. With no car improvements at all I'm not sure how you can really give an unequal treatment to your drivers.

Karun was bringing in the bulk of money, so most of the teams effort, what little effort that may be ,was being put inot pushing him forward over Bruno. Karun got upgrades, by upgrades I mean things that are standard on F1 cars that HRT didn't have yet, before Senna did. Things like the suspension made from carbon rather than steel, the fuel tank, and many other mechanical parts, he got first. That's why Senna was plagued with retirements for the first half of the season, while Karun sailed from finish to finish. Karun was actually even given an offer for 2011, while Senna was really not even seen as a future option for the team.

I'm sorry, but I laughed at that. It's well known that Karun failed to pay more than half of what he was supposed to bring, which is why he got the boot. Senna was the main money-bringer, and Embratel was on the car practically at every race. If anything, Senna was given slightly better treatment, as evidenced in Bahrain, where he was the first to get in the F110.

GroupLotusRenault · Post by **GroupLotusRenault** » 03 Jun 2011, 03:52

But Senna didnt do anything with HRT, why should he replace a good constant driver?

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 03 Jun 2011, 03:54

GroupLotusRenault wrote:But Senna didnt do anything with HRT, why should he replace a good constant driver?

Exactly.

GroupLotusRenault · Post by **GroupLotusRenault** » 03 Jun 2011, 04:02

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:
GroupLotusRenault wrote:But Senna didnt do anything with HRT, why should he replace a good constant driver?

Exactly.

Also what does the team want Heidfeld to do? Win every race?....If the team did like in 2010 where they kept bringing in new parts to the car then they should aim high. But with all the rumours in the paddock saying they are short of funds and with the court case with team lotus this isnt helping them on track.
Also Eric Boullier saying that the english are arrogent??? As a englishman that hurts badly. And does it matter that Petrovs engineers are english? Spainsh & japanese engineers wont help. Very bad attitude.