Your Reject of the Race - Catalunya

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 09 May 2009, 10:05

I'm not going to be here for qualifying, so I'm starting this thread earlier than intended because I probably won't be back online until tomorrow.

So far, there hasn't really been anyone who has unimpressed enough for Reject status, though Adrian Sutil's fuel cell preventing him from getting anything done in yesterday's session is the strongest case. I suppose Nelson Piquet might get a nod for his trips into the landscape, but don't forget that he was one of the fastest early in the practice session - at one stage he was the quickest man on the circuit - so I think that unexpected-but-welcomed performance negates his time in the kitty litter.

hclw · Post by **hclw** » 09 May 2009, 10:25

Nick Heidfeld crashing in 3rd practise puts him as my odds-on favourite for the reject win

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 09 May 2009, 10:28

If Nelson Piquet were to outperform Alonso at Alonso's home ground from here on in (Which he surprisingly looks like doing) then Fernando would be looking like ROTR
But enough speculation and back to the current state of play.
Sutil's fuel cell doesn't look like a ROTR candidate but has hclw said BMW Sauber and Heidfeld in particular looks like odds on favourites here

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 09 May 2009, 12:31

Ferrari making an early bid after Raikkonen's elimination in Q1. Looks like the same thing happened as with Massa in Malaysia. And looks like they simply didn't learn the lesson about not gambling that one run will be enough.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 09 May 2009, 12:32

eytl wrote:Ferrari making an early bid after Raikkonen's elimination in Q1. Looks like the same thing happened as with Massa in Malaysia. And looks like they simply didn't learn the lesson about not gambling that one run will be enough.

So far, agreed. Can't believe they fell for that again. Heikki was just slow, beating only the Force Indias...

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 09 May 2009, 13:59

Hmmm, my night didn't go as planned. Come to think of it, there never was a plan to begin with, so maybe that's why it failed.

Anyway, after seeing the qualifying results, I'd have to say Ferrari have made the strongest argument.

I also think Toyota deserve it for suggesting they will be leaving at the end of te year. They, like Ferrari, may not like the so-called 'two tier' system, but running under the budget cap is obviously so appealing that you couldn't justify not using it. Sure, you have more money to spend, but you don't have much to spend it on. In short, they've got nothing more than a pair of twos when the FIA is sitting on a royal flush.

And possible Button's downplaying of the Brawn; after suggesting they're no longer the class act and saying the car doesn't have the balance he wants, he goes ahead and puts in a blinder to take pole. And you can tell I'm running out of candidates because my suggestions are becoming increasingly specious.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 09 May 2009, 15:06

Something to add to Kimi not passing Q1:

Ferrari's Kimi Raikkonen has accepted responsibility for failing to make it out of the first qualifying session for the Spanish Grand Prix.

The Finn failed to go out for a second run and watched from his garage as he slid down to 16th place, among the first five cars to be eliminated.

"It was my own mistake. I didn't do a very good first run" he told BBC Sport.

"It doesn't really matter whose fault it is. I wasn't really keen to go again, I thought we had done enough."

It is the second time in five races this season that Ferrari have been caught out in this manner, after the same thing happened to Raikkonen's team-mate Felipe Massa in Malaysia in April.

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 041802.stm

Not really keen?! What the effing hell does he mean? Luca, you know who to shoot for this one!

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 09 May 2009, 20:18

CarlosFerreira wrote:Something to add to Kimi not passing Q1:

Ferrari's Kimi Raikkonen has accepted responsibility for failing to make it out of the first qualifying session for the Spanish Grand Prix.

The Finn failed to go out for a second run and watched from his garage as he slid down to 16th place, among the first five cars to be eliminated.

"It was my own mistake. I didn't do a very good first run" he told BBC Sport.

"It doesn't really matter whose fault it is. I wasn't really keen to go again, I thought we had done enough."

It is the second time in five races this season that Ferrari have been caught out in this manner, after the same thing happened to Raikkonen's team-mate Felipe Massa in Malaysia in April.

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 041802.stm

Not really keen?! What the effing hell does he mean? Luca, you know who to shoot for this one!

Hmmm.... isn't being "keen to go out" what you're paid to do, Kimi? I don't think Ferrari should get ROTR, it should be Kimi. He knew his first run wasn't good enough but he didn't want to go out. I call that being lazy.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 09 May 2009, 21:09

I'm gonna wait for the race, but as far as this goes, Kimi and the people around him are best candidates.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 09 May 2009, 21:20

Ferrari are my ROTY candidate for sure right now.

Libertango · Post by **Libertango** » 10 May 2009, 14:13

Ferarri. Have they ever been that bad?

Nin13 · Post by **Nin13** » 10 May 2009, 14:24

Ferrari...........
3 major mistakes----------
1- Kimi left in pits in Q1.
2- Kimi KERS problem and retirement.
3- Massa was fueled less to finish, this means he had to let Vettel and Alonso through.

Did you'll hear Webber before they went to podium, he told Brawn duo that "Massa f*cked up Vettel's race" , actaully he did.............

deCrasheris · Post by **deCrasheris** » 10 May 2009, 14:29

I'm going with Adrian Sutil for his effort to cut through the first corner which resulted in cloting jarno Trulli's spinning Toyota. It could also go to whichever Toro Rosso driver ran into the back of the other Toro Rosso knocking them both out in the same corner.

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 10 May 2009, 14:42

It's been a long time since we've seen a melee at the start that was as bad as this one: it eliminated no less than 4 cars: Trulli, Bourdais, Buemi and Sutil. Causing that collision to happen is very reject-worthy. Apparently, it was triggered by two cars getting too close together on the exit of Turn 2. One of them was the Williams of Rosberg, the other one I'm not sure. Anyway, right after that, Rosberg came across the road to where Trulli was and sent him into that melee-causing spin. So Trulli spun off and darted across the oncoming traffic, taking out the first Toro Rosso on one side of the track. And whilst the other Toro Rosso spun on top of the first one, Trulli hit the side of Sutil on the other side of the track.

Other contenders include Kimi Raikkonen, whose bad strategy in qualifying was surprising, after what had happened to Massa in the qualifying for the Malaysian GP. And the new Ferrari wasn't reliable, whereas the old one at least got points, despite its too light a fuel load in the last stint.

And where exactly was Heikki Kovalainen? Pretty much a no-show all weekend. Out already after Q1 and then retired early in the race.

So therefore, I'd like to nominate the Finnish and semi-Finnish drivers in the field for ROTR. Besides that, it's nice to add several people to the ROTR award high scores at once, presenting each of them with a third of an award sawed into 3 pieces.

Obviously, Ferrari, McLaren and Kazuki Nakajima get the benefit of the doubt from me this time around.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 10 May 2009, 16:06

I posted this in the race discussion, by mistake. Here's my vote:

ROTR to Ferrari. The Kimi debacle on qualifying, plus Massa losing 2 places on the last lap because someone missed the accounting of fuel loads - not pretty. Too many organizational problems. Besides, there's the issue with Kimi retiring on mechanical issues.

Toyota surprised me on the negative. Trulli messed up, and Glock underperformed, again. Not brilliant. So did the McLarens and Kubica.

Another driver who surprised on the negative was Vettel. He never seemed quite keen on taking Massa, confident he would take him on strategy, and ended up losing a podium to Webber. Maybe this race will teach Vettel the need for aggression, and not just raw pace. Jenson has had to learn that as well, over the years.

watka · Post by **watka** » 10 May 2009, 20:24

I'll make it another vote for Ferrari; for not only making the same mistake twice in qualifying with Kimi, but also not fuelling Massa enough, and Kimi's car failing in the race. You could argue that they made significant improvements to the car, but at the end of the day they made 3 mistakes.

Bourdais has a strong shout for ROTR also, for being slow in qualifying again and also running straight into the back of Buemi. The Trulli-Sutil clash was unavoidable in my view, but Bourdais just didn't slow down. He admitted that he thought the car was going to roll, so he was clearly going at some speed.

Some people are saying Kovalainen, but really it was down to the car as well as him. He had technical problems all weekend and therefore never really got in the groove. Unfair to place all the blame on him.

Ross Prawn · Post by **Ross Prawn** » 10 May 2009, 23:15

Actually a lot of people were mediocre in this race, Toro Rosso, BMW et al. But he award has to go to Ferrari for sheer inspired awfulness.

Repeating the Q1 mistake from two races ago, this time with Kimi - unbelievable. Messing up Massa's pit stop/fuel - poor.

As Stephano said, unacceptable. Trouble is that he says it pretty much every day now.

johnston21 · Post by **johnston21** » 11 May 2009, 02:26

thehemogoblin wrote:Ferrari are my ROTY candidate for sure right now.

------------------
"post race"

x 2, nuff said... :ugeek:

Robbie · Post by **Robbie** » 11 May 2009, 03:43

Seriously, is there any candidate other than Ferrari?

The only guys finishing down low were the usual--Piquet, Nakajima, Fisi.

You could say the track for not helping in ANY overtaking at all--but then, Ferrari is screaming at the top of its lungs for Reject of the Race. Come on, guys, prove us right! :twisted:

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 11 May 2009, 05:06

I must say Kuwashima and I are yet to throw pots and pans at each other over this one, but I'm surprised everyone is saying Ferrari.

Kimi's elimination in Q1 appears to have been as much his fault as the team's. Yes he also DNFed in the race but overall Ferrari's pace was much improved. Massa was a podium chance for much of the race. His fuel issue at the end appears to have been a rig problem rather than a calculation problem.

I agree with de Crasheris that Sutil has to come into the reckoning - trying to be smart (and cheating) by cutting turn two and making up a heap of places ... so that he could be slewed into by Trulli. Instant karma.

McLaren were sod-awful (Kovalainen in particular), and why is no-one saying anything about the strategy bungles for Barrichello and Vettel? Barrichello for sticking with a risk-laden aggressive strategy after Button had laid down the gauntlet by going to the more orthodox strategy, and Vettel/Red Bull for not ensuring that Seb was freed from staring at Massa's backside.

Not saying that Ferrari won't get it, but to me there is no stand-out candidate at all ...

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 11 May 2009, 06:02

Reject of the Race in my opinion would be the Italian assault on this race in general. Here is my reasoning:
Jarno Trulli: Made a poor start and then caused the Melee down at the exit of 2
Giancarlo Fisichella: Had the oppertunity to outshine Sutil but failed to do so
Toro Rosso: Ran into eachother... nuff said
Ferrari:
1. Kimi not going out again in Q1
2. Felipe NOT using KERS early enough at the start (More Massa forgetting than anything else in my opinion though but according to the world feed graphic he only started using it at 220kph) which cost them the race there and then
3. Kimi's problems witith KERS and he eventual DNF outside the points
4. Ferrari short filling Massa which meant that he lost 4th the Vettel, 5th to Alonso, held on to 6th by 1.8 seconds and ran out of fuel on the cool down lap

A honourable mention goes to McLaren though... Slow and horrible to watch (Espcially when Hamilton's tyres started graining at the end of his 2nd stint... he was sveral seconds slower than anyone else on the track just before he pitted)

Nin13 · Post by **Nin13** » 11 May 2009, 06:56

IF REJECT OF THE RACE IS ANYTHING THEN IT HAS TO BE>>>>>>>>>

RACIST FANS IN SPAIN

We must stop going to SPAIN...... Its getting out of hand..............................

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/05/ ... stigation/

Really shameful to watch how this @ssholes act!!
REALLY SHAMEFUL!!!!!!!!!!

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 11 May 2009, 06:59

I think ROTR has been settled there and then... if they decide to go back to Spain next year it would be shock of the decade for sure

noshpit · Post by **noshpit** » 11 May 2009, 08:08

i think that it should go to the italians

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 11 May 2009, 08:09

That's been going on for a while now, happens every time F1 goes there after Alonso left McLaren. However, there's stupid people everywhere.

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 11 May 2009, 08:18

I'd like to put in a mention for Bordais who seemed to pull the Riccardo Rosset Spa 98 trick of accelerating directly to the scene of the accident, with bonus points for choosing his team mate to nearly decapitate!

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 11 May 2009, 08:31

I'll tell you who it is...Barrichello. Race winning car with the optimum strategy, never held up in traffic, and totally stuffed by his team mate on a less optimal strategy. Then to cap it all he launces into a whinge about team orders after the race. Don't forget that he's lucky to be in a team which a) survived and b) didn't hire Senna. With the car he's got it's time to put up or shut up!

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 11 May 2009, 08:35

noisebox wrote:I'll tell you who it is...Barrichello. Race winning car with the optimum strategy, never held up in traffic, and totally stuffed by his team mate on a less optimal strategy. Then to cap it all he launces into a whinge about team orders after the race. Don't forget that he's lucky to be in a team which a) survived and b) didn't hire Senna. With the car he's got it's time to put up or shut up!

Button did make everyone look silly, especially on the hard tyre. We knew he was talented and quick, but the way he's been handling things just makes Barrichello look a bit second-hand.

Doesn't beat Ferrari, though! Granted, there may have been a tech problem in the refueling; come back in, let the RBs go, splash-and-dash and beat Alonso, instead of losing one more position than necessary and look silly.

rffp · Post by **rffp** » 11 May 2009, 15:35

My ROTR is Ferrari, for repeating the Q1 mistake and for the mess with Massa at the end of the race.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 11 May 2009, 15:52

The Ferrari-powered cars generally seem to be rejectful in my opinion. Kimi failed to get out of Q1 then had unreliability; Felipe became the Trulli-train after Jarno's 'retirement' and the two Toro Rossos broke the first unwritten rule of F1 - don't crash into your teammate! Special rejectdom for the racist Spanish fans - however often it has happened before, it should never be tolerated. Full stop.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 11 May 2009, 15:57

dr-baker wrote:Special rejectdom for the racist Spanish fans - however often it has happened before, it should never be tolerated. Full stop.

Yup. I'd just prefer to ignore them, so they'd go away. If the FIA makes a fuss out of this, it will become mandatory to see some idiot doing the same every GP.

LukeB · Post by **LukeB** » 11 May 2009, 16:24

Trulli. Wiped out nearly a quater of the field in the second corner.

The end of Massas race has to be the crowning moment of embarrassment for Ferrari so far this year. Finally get their car up to some kind of competitive pace, then they have to crawl around for the last few laps and give away two places. They've had worst races this season but that just seemed particularly humiliating.
As for Raikonnen, right now I don't think he cares about his performances either way. ROTR should go to someone who cares about (not) winning it

Sitorimon · Post by **Sitorimon** » 11 May 2009, 16:39

If we're ignoring the racist fans then it has to be Sutil for me- the sheer irony of cutting a corner to avoid trouble (and thus gain places) and then just running into something that had he just stayed at the back anyway he'd have missed, is just too much poetic justice for words. First time in a while that having an ex gravel trap tarmac-ed has caused trouble

Si

Popi_Larrauri · Post by **Popi_Larrauri** » 11 May 2009, 16:59

CarlosFerreira wrote:
dr-baker wrote:Special rejectdom for the racist Spanish fans - however often it has happened before, it should never be tolerated. Full stop.

Yup. I'd just prefer to ignore them, so they'd go away. If the FIA makes a fuss out of this, it will become mandatory to see some idiot doing the same every GP.

I do totally agree. Besides, how many of them where? Four? Five s***ers? Among 35.000. Spain it´s not a racist country in itself, even all things given (i.e. ETA)

I nominate:

1) Ferrari mechanics and strategist: Destroying all what designers have done to recover the lost ground. There´s a sayng in Argentina that goes "do not take more care on sawdust than on boards", If a set of tyres worths more than Q2 or a 1 lap fuel load in order to keep Vettel worth more than the whole race, then they are absurdely wrong...

2) Sutil: if you gonna enter into the road wherever you want, try not to do it EXACTLY where that fancy italian spining guy is. 50% of initial mayham is his fault, Trulli was just flyng down in dire strait.

3)Mc Laren: Have any of you any news about them?

4) Ross Brawn "Strategical one-two team Orders?" Im not an expert as you are, but to me, was quiet absurd to change strategy only on Button.

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 11 May 2009, 20:26

My Reject of the Race is Ross Brawn. He seems to have continued to bring the spirit of Austria 2002. Imagine what Barichello feels like after playing number 2 at Ferrari for Schumacher and now he has to again for Button.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 11 May 2009, 21:17

My first nomination for ROTR is Vettel's strategist. Button's strategy was changed mid-race, so I can't really see a reason why somebody at Red Bull didn't decide to fuel Vettel long for the middle stint, allowing him to leapfrog Massa at the final stop.

Second nomination goes to McLaren. They have seemed to gone from best of the rest in Bahrain to lower-midfield in the blink of an eye. Even Hamilton was only on a KERS-less Heidfeld's pace at best, and Heikki Kovalainen could only beat Force India.

Final nomination goes to Toyota. It looks like their failure to capitalise on their front row lockout in Bahrain could've been a much more wasted oppurtunity than anyone realised. Now they're behind Brawn, Red Bull, and Ferrari, it seems. Factor in the fact that Alonso is regularly in Q3 and has KERS, and it doesn't look too good for them. And then there was the start, where Glock got away terribly, ruining his race, and Trulli, of course, didn't make it past turn 2. Not the best of weekends for them.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 11 May 2009, 22:58

tristan1117 wrote:My Reject of the Race is Ross Brawn. He seems to have continued to bring the spirit of Austria 2002. Imagine what Barichello feels like after playing number 2 at Ferrari for Schumacher and now he has to again for Button.

Actually, that's not the case at all. Button, Brawn and Barrichello all admitted that Barrichello was on the better strategy, and it would have paid off if Button's engineers hadn't felt he would have been stuck behind Rosberg after his second stop, so they changed his strategy. If Brawn were out to sabotage Barrichello, then how come every tme the BBC picked up the Brazilian's radio transmissions, Jock Clear was telling him to put the hammer down? Barrichello has said that if he felt Brawn were forcing him into a position where he was playing second fiddle to Button, he'd reitre there and then, which he clearly hasn't done. Brawn has stated that it is good Barrichello feels this way, because it will give him more drive.

It's evident that Jenson Button is the better driver. Barrichello was fuelled lighter than Button, but JB managed to lay down laps that were quick enough to keephim in contention. We've already seen that he has this insane ability to squeeze extra speed out of the car when he needs it that most; that's how he won in Malaysia and Bahrain. Barrichello needed a twenty-second advantage over Button (at least) when he went in for his second stop, but the best he could do was just eleven. And when Button came out after his second stop, he was able to lay down serious laps on the ahrder compound while Barrichello was forced to defend against Webber.

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 12 May 2009, 00:21

But you have to agree that Barichello is on the lookout for anything that resembles team orders. He even said so.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 12 May 2009, 00:47

tristan1117 wrote:But you have to agree that Barichello is on the lookout for anything that resembles team orders. He even said so.

He's just over the hill. Think Alan Jones in 1986.

LukeB · Post by **LukeB** » 12 May 2009, 01:14

I wonder if Barichello is rueing all those years he spent at Ferarri? Very succesful they may have been, but now he's in the best car in the field with noone holding him back and it looks like he's gotten there to late.
Sure if he spent his Ferrari years elsewhere he woulden't have won any WDCs, Ferrari being so strong then, but maybe he wouldn't feel like he wasted his talent propping up Schumacher when he should have been out raceing for himself while he was at his peak.