Greece to build F1 circuit?

[sswishbone]

Was browsing a forum about to be closed down and saw an article containing these links

http://www.formula1onlive.com/2011/05/g ... ealed.html

http://www.formula1onlive.com/2011/05/g ... rcuit.html

If true then I am confused as all hell, last I heard Greece was in massive danger of needing a europe bail-out, I doubt an F1 circuit is what the creditors had in mind! As far as the image goes, if that is the design for the layout it appears a cross between Hockenheim and interlagos, which ain't a bad thing. Thoughts people? for me a little unecessary

[AndreaModa]

Haha erm nope this isn't going to happen! They had a bailout last year, and it looks very likely that they'll need another one, or pull out of the eurozone entirely this year. Considering they can't even afford the repayments on these loans, I don't think they'll be able to spare the $195 million for a racetrack!

[Faustus]

Yeah, this will never happen.

[Londoner]

Not going to happen, I'm afraid, especially with the EU bailout. I'm not sure if motorsport is even popular over in Greece.

[Faustus]

Well, the Acropolis Rally is part of the World Rally Championship and is very popular, but that's about it. There used to be a Formula 3 series, I have no idea if it still exists, but it was just for older cars and was very weak.

[Shizuka]

EU bailout or not, they at least managed to be part of the euro zone, unlike Hungary, who keeps pushing back the joining date while hosting a race here!
Greece needs to sort the financial problems first. Then they could try, but not now.

[DanielPT]

EU bailout or not, they at least managed to be part of the euro zone, unlike Hungary, who keeps pushing back the joining date while hosting a race here!
Greece needs to sort the financial problems first. Then they could try, but not now.

Why would Hungary want to join Eurozone? They have HWNSNBM. Everything else is unnecessary!

[DemocalypseNow]

EU bailout or not, they at least managed to be part of the euro zone, unlike Hungary, who keeps pushing back the joining date while hosting a race here!
Greece needs to sort the financial problems first. Then they could try, but not now.

Why would Hungary want to join Eurozone? They have HWNSNBM. Everything else is unnecessary!

The European Union defers to the United Nations.
The United Nations defers to HWNSNBM.

[Aerond]

Well, it says they´re going to build a F1-Spec track (possible), not that they´re going to organise a race (which is obviously not happening).

Now, they must find more private money for this, me thinks.

[AndreaModa]

Well, it says they´re going to build a F1-Spec track (possible), not that they´re going to organise a race (which is obviously not happening).

Now, they must find more private money for this, me thinks.

That would be the only way it would be built. But then, who would invest in a country that has so much sovereign debt?

Ireland is in a similar, albeit much less extreme position, and they're having trouble finding the money to fund some motorway projects! No-one wants to invest when things turn sour, so I highly doubt anyone will be stupid enough to plough so much money into a project like that in Greece of all places.

[Benetton]

But then, who would invest in a country that has so much sovereign debt?

Those having extra extra cash and willing to buy cheap land, I suppose since the economy in that country is a mess. High risk equals high reward.

But this is not going to happen unless it's 100% privately backed. Greece, the state, has some serious debt, which probably needs to be restructured during this year.

[DemocalypseNow]

But then, who would invest in a country that has so much sovereign debt?

Those having extra extra cash and willing to buy cheap land, I suppose since the economy in that country is a mess. High risk equals high reward.

But this is not going to happen unless it's 100% privately backed. Greece, the state, has some serious debt, which probably needs to be restructured during this year.

Maybe the Greek govt will give the project some tax breaks or something?

[GroupLotusRenault]

EU wont let them hold a F! race as they need them to pay them back....

[golic_2004]

After what I saw on the news this morning. The chances of Greece having a F1 circuit are: Life having a successful career. http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-201 ... 15842.html

[Ferrim]

Off-topic but I really hope that this madness of the bailouts finishes, and soon.

Greece CAN'T pay back its debt. It's awful that they keep trying to force them take "adjustment plans" that only push them into bigger moles of debt.

[Popi_Larrauri]

Off-topic but I really hope that this madness of the bailouts finishes, and soon.

Greece CAN'T pay back its debt. It's awful that they keep trying to force them take "adjustment plans" that only push them into bigger moles of debt.

And I thought that I was the only one!!!!





....I want to hug you right now...

[shinji]

Off-topic but I really hope that this madness of the bailouts finishes, and soon.

Greece CAN'T pay back its debt. It's awful that they keep trying to force them take "adjustment plans" that only push them into bigger moles of debt.

And I thought that I was the only one!!!!





....I want to hug you right now...

Only one? The entire Rep. of Ire. shares the sentiment.

[Ferrim]

The Rep. of Ire. can't either. Neither Portugal, and more than possibly Spain (in this case because of private debt)

[jackanderton]

I might remind people that investment can also be a way of escaping debt.

I doubt the Greek people appreciate that after the disaster of the 2004 olympics, but it's still true.

[DanielPT]

I might remind people that investment can also be a way of escaping debt.

I doubt the Greek people appreciate that after the disaster of the 2004 olympics, but it's still true.

The problem of Olympics and every major sports event out there, F1 including, is that the investment needed heavily outweighs revenues during that event. Revenue boost coming from tourism and commerce which results directly from the event are an estimation and no one really knows true figures. Nevertheless it doesn't cover all the costs in hosting the event. Yes, popularity rises and you are spoken of during a certain time, but there isn't much more into that. Worst, the facilities demanded by those who actually organize the sporting part of the event raise each time an event takes place. This happens because as they are entitled to a part in the event income (without having spent a nickel). This means that the bigger the investment, the bigger is the probable income and so the bigger their share is. It is really nothing sort of a Mafia ripping countries and tax payers off. Countries and politics go with that because bringing in events and doing investment, no matter how mad/stupid it is, may win them elections.

[Popi_Larrauri]

I might remind people that investment can also be a way of escaping debt.

I doubt the Greek people appreciate that after the disaster of the 2004 olympics, but it's still true.

The problem of Olympics and every major sports event out there, F1 including, is that the investment needed heavily outweighs revenues during that event. Revenue boost coming from tourism and commerce which results directly from the event are an estimation and no one really knows true figures. Nevertheless it doesn't cover all the costs in hosting the event. Yes, popularity rises and you are spoken of during a certain time, but there isn't much more into that. Worst, the facilities demanded by those who actually organize the sporting part of the event raise each time an event takes place. This happens because as they are entitled to a part in the event income (without having spent a nickel). This means that the bigger the investment, the bigger is the probable income and so the bigger their share is. It is really nothing sort of a Mafia ripping countries and tax payers off. Countries and politics go with that because bringing in events and doing investment, no matter how mad/stupid it is, may win them elections.

I coincide with this, and as a matter of fact, I don't remember a single event of this nature that have been declared as proven to be profitable. There's one factor that can atenuate this sentence, though. Constructors tend to be a good way to accelerate a slowed economy, since even if they are led by rich owners, they employ a lot of low income workers (thus, as low income people tend to expend everything they earn (because it is less probable that they are able to save at the end of the month) this tends to activate the economy faster than other investments), and constructors always subcontracts a lot of sub-branches of the economy on items related on constructors. In fact, the 2008 real state bubble build-up was not only a matter of private interest making their own business around deregulation and mortgages, but also from the government side, for the above mentioned issues, as sympathetic with the effect of rising PIB grow.

But the issue remains: the government, for doing this, must do an expenditure that right now should be unable to do.... so, maybe the only solution is controlled devaluation (as painful as can be, but in the long term it has amazing results) or defaulting the debt... both could be interesting subjects, but far away from this forum.

[dnhrudi]

The only way this is gonna happen is if they relocate the British Grand Prix to Corfu with BRDC funding

[Phoenix]

I see no incentives for Bernie to want to have a Greece GP. The country is in huge economical troubles and in political turmoil because of that, and Acropolis Rally aside, they don't have a big motor racing culture. I'm now wondering, is there a Greek racing driver in the international motor racing scene right now? (Aside from some obscure rally driver).

[DanielPT]

I see no incentives for Bernie to want to have a Greece GP. The country is in huge economical troubles and in political turmoil because of that, and Acropolis Rally aside, they don't have a big motor racing culture. I'm now wondering, is there a Greek racing driver in the international motor racing scene right now? (Aside from some obscure rally driver).

You have Alexandros Margaritis that was competing in the FIA GT1 Championship last year (As was Deletraz).

Aside from this there goes Bernie calculations for deciding a GP:

Greece: 1 + Track_designed_by_Tilke(?) - No_money - Political_turmoil - No_driver - No_team = Not_in_a_million_years

Barhain: 1 + Track_designed_by_Tilke + Lots_of_money - Political_turmoil - No_driver - No_team = Lets_go_there

[Phoenix]

Aside from this there goes Bernie calculations for deciding a GP:

Greece: 1 + Track_designed_by_Tilke(?) - No_money - Political_turmoil - No_driver - No_team = Not_in_a_million_years

Barhain: 1 + Track_designed_by_Tilke + Lots_of_money - Political_turmoil - No_driver - No_team = Lets_go_there

Shame that doesn't fit in my sig. I have to stand by the promise I made in my current sig.

[dr-baker]

I see no incentives for Bernie to want to have a Greece GP. The country is in huge economical troubles and in political turmoil because of that, and Acropolis Rally aside, they don't have a big motor racing culture. I'm now wondering, is there a Greek racing driver in the international motor racing scene right now? (Aside from some obscure rally driver).

You have Alexandros Margaritis that was competing in the FIA GT1 Championship last year (As was Deletraz).

A1 Team Greece only entered 2 rounds/4 races back at the start of the 2006/07 season and in that short time, they used two race drivers and 2 test/practice drivers: Takis Kaitatzis and Nikos Zahos as race drivers, Stelios Nousias and Vasilis Papafilippou as test drivers. I had never heard of them before and haven't heard of them since. Wikipedia says they did not enter again due to lack of funds (plausible, considering how long Korea lasted the following season...) but at the time, I heard that their drivers had to to their compulsory military service at around that time and no replacements were available...

[Myrvold]

(Aside from some obscure rally driver).

The obscure driver that actually won a PWRC round 2 years ago?

[MansellsEyebrows]

I see no incentives for Bernie to want to have a Greece GP. The country is in huge economical troubles and in political turmoil because of that, and Acropolis Rally aside, they don't have a big motor racing culture. I'm now wondering, is there a Greek racing driver in the international motor racing scene right now? (Aside from some obscure rally driver).

You have Alexandros Margaritis that was competing in the FIA GT1 Championship last year (As was Deletraz).

A1 Team Greece only entered 2 rounds/4 races back at the start of the 2006/07 season and in that short time, they used two race drivers and 2 test/practice drivers: Takis Kaitatzis and Nikos Zahos as race drivers, Stelios Nousias and Vasilis Papafilippou as test drivers. I had never heard of them before and haven't heard of them since. Wikipedia says they did not enter again due to lack of funds (plausible, considering how long Korea lasted the following season...) but at the time, I heard that their drivers had to to their compulsory military service at around that time and no replacements were available...

who?

[dr-baker]

You have Alexandros Margaritis that was competing in the FIA GT1 Championship last year (As was Deletraz).

A1 Team Greece only entered 2 rounds/4 races back at the start of the 2006/07 season and in that short time, they used two race drivers and 2 test/practice drivers: Takis Kaitatzis and Nikos Zahos as race drivers, Stelios Nousias and Vasilis Papafilippou as test drivers. I had never heard of them before and haven't heard of them since. Wikipedia says they did not enter again due to lack of funds (plausible, considering how long Korea lasted the following season...) but at the time, I heard that their drivers had to to their compulsory military service at around that time and no replacements were available...

who?

Exactly. I remembered the team existing briefly, not the drivers!

[dnhrudi]

I think I saw one of them in Greek F3 in the early mid 90's. Went to 2 meetings, both events could be kindly described as having a certain comedy quality...