Your Reject of the Race - Valencia!

lostpin · Post by **lostpin** » 27 Jun 2010, 23:22

The Webber incident just proved how fast the Red Bull is compared to the Lotus. It really has wings

. Nothing rejectful here. Mercedes GP seems far more appropriate.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 27 Jun 2010, 23:31

dr-baker wrote:Ermmm, 4th place and within 13 seconds? I think they DID end up near the podium.

I doubt they would have if Webber hadn't crashed.

kowalski wrote:@Hammer - get over your English bias....

I don't have English bias. I just don't think Hamilton's penalty was warranted, because I don't think he would have been able to tell where he and the safety car were relative to one another and the white line. And I suspect Ferrari are meddling with the race results.

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 27 Jun 2010, 23:44

AndreaModa wrote:
eytl wrote:
Ross Prawn wrote:Vettel -- Yes, yes. I know he won and drove well and all of that. But his silly one fingered gesture whenever he does anything good is getting on my tits. As are his 'wooh, wooh' speeches which sound like he has been taking taking advice from the wrong sort of management consultant. He was such a nice boy a couple of years ago, but I fear the PR men have gotten hold of him.

+1

+2

it's not only me who's noticed that! Needs to freshen up his celebrations methinks!

Atleast it isn't the goddamn victoryhop of schuey. If I never see it again it'll be too soon.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 28 Jun 2010, 00:19

AndreaModa wrote:
Myrvold wrote:
AndreaModa wrote:The stewards may have been a bit wayward with their decisions, but at the end of the day rules are rules and whilst I would have preferred to see 'reprimands' handed out so the results weren't skewed, the rules must be both obeyed and enforced.

Just wondering, what is the point with reprimands? I mean, they should be some sort of last warning... but they seem to come up again, and again for the same drivers without anything happening.

There isn't a point really as far as we've seen, though I didn't fully explain myself when what I meant was I'd have rather seen some sort of decision made during the race, rather than letting the cars race to positions, for them only to be skewed later on, or worse still dis-qualified. Obviously that's totally out of the question here, but some may recall Clive James' comments during his F1 season reviews in the 80s about how drivers frequently put their lives on the line, completed the race distance, only to be told at the end that it was a complete waste of time and totally pointless as they were disqualified over a technicality or rule.

In this instance, the incident and outcome are much less severe than disqualification, but the point still stands that F1 drivers finish in decent positions, the fans see them celebrating on the podium/post-race only for a couple of hours later to discover on the 6 o'clock news that the podium ceremony and finishing positions are completely void because of the stewards handing out some belated time penalties or whatever. The stewards had plenty of time to issue the 5 second penalty, what's wrong with announcing it mid-race and allowing the affected drivers to try and recover the deficit, which would surely create a much more exciting event, a bit like two part aggregate races affected by a race stoppage?

Ahh, then I agree

though, reprimand, only if it is any point in it... "do something like this again and you will have a hard penalty"

RAK · Post by **RAK** » 28 Jun 2010, 00:24

DonTirri wrote:
AndreaModa wrote:, but some may recall Clive James' comments during his F1 season reviews in the 80s about how drivers frequently put their lives on the line, completed the race distance, only to be told at the end that it was a complete waste of time and totally pointless as they were disqualified over a technicality or rule.

1982 season review, Long Beach, about Gilles Villeneuves rear wing.

Only reason I remember it so vividly is because I happened to watch said review less than a week ago

As I say on other sites, I appear to have been overtaken by a Japanese assassin. I've actually reviewed the review recently, so it's obviously going to be in my memories.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 28 Jun 2010, 01:03

Jack O Malley wrote:The race control. Masters of cock-ups.

^ This, and for the fact that they basically allowed Lewis Hamilton to get a... non-penalty when he should have gotten one...

A reprimand, ladies and gentlemen, is the equivalent of no penalty whatsoever. You get no punishment when by all rights you should get some.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 28 Jun 2010, 03:04

Captain Hammer wrote:
kowalski wrote:@Hammer - get over your English bias....

I don't have English bias. I just don't think Hamilton's penalty was warranted, because I don't think he would have been able to tell where he and the safety car were relative to one another and the white line. And I suspect Ferrari are meddling with the race results.

Are you becoming delirious?

While I don't approve of some of Ferrari's tactics over the years, they were right in this case. They complained to the FIA, as they are entitled to do so, and the FIA reacted way too slowly anyway. Try and tell me you'd not be pissed off if you were a driver who lost 6 positions because one of your main rivals was playing games with you and the safety car, and then an entire group of drivers break another rule to jump past you while you were simply abiding by the rules, only to be rewarded with 8th instead of 3rd? I'd probably launch some sort of projectile missile at both the FIA and the drivers who stole positions by bending the rules.

This whole 'Ferrari is the devil' act is getting weary. Yep, they have a chairman who can't keep his mouth shut to save his own life, and yes, they employed possibly the biggest cheat that ever raced in F1, but inventing conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory just so you can badmouth Ferrari whenever you feel like it makes you look some crazed psychopath hellbent on revenge for something you imagined they did to you.

Kowalski was half right, he just got positive and negative bias the wrong way round. Have to agree with him about the Alonso/Hamilton situation, he slowed down once he saw the SC coming out, waited until the last moment and blasted past it as late as he dared to so Alonso would be stuck behind it. The FIA conveniently waited the exact amount of time Hamilton needed to pull away from Kobayashi before handing out the penalty. If anything the conspiracy theories should be aimed at McLaren this time...

LukeB · Post by **LukeB** » 28 Jun 2010, 04:19

Myrvold wrote:Just wondering, what is the point with reprimands?

When the stewards actully punish drivers, everyone complains about them ruining the race and discouraging racing (see: previous seasons with penalty happy stewards, this season with Schumacher at Monaco). When they cut back on punishing drivers people complain about them letting drivers get away with things (see: pretty much any controversial incident involving Hamilton this season).
Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

JohnMLTX · Post by **JohnMLTX** » 28 Jun 2010, 04:33

Speed Network in America for thinking that it's OK to tape delay the race a whopping 6 HOURS.

i went online and streamed the StarSports feed from INDIA to watch the race live.

coops · Post by **coops** » 28 Jun 2010, 05:37

Fernando Alonso Diaz.

Things not going well? Blame everybody else.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 28 Jun 2010, 07:03

Mark Webber: If it rains, it pours. Webber demonstrated that to the extreme here. Horrible start as he got gobbled up by about a thrid of the field in the first lap, had a bad pitstop then ran into the back of Kovy in what was a misunderstanding of epic proportions which leads me to my next nomination...

The ONE HD commentry team: Seriously for most of the race afterwards they dished everything they could at Kovy and Lotus even though the accident wasn't really anyone's fault (I got the impression from the replays that Kovy move to the left at the last second to try and get out of the way and Webber just reacted too slow and ran into the back of him)

Mercedes: Rosberg lucked in a point post race, Schumacher was stuck behind the Alguersarus again and both had brake problems by lap 20. Nuff said really

Tonio Liuzzi: Sure he may have gotten unlucky with the safety car but still that doesn't fully explain the gap between him and Sutil

Ferrari: Lap 9 of the European Grand Prix: Mark Webber runs into the back of Heikki Kovaleinen in what was one of the biggest accidents in a while bringing out the safety car. From that point on both Ferraris were taken out of contention for big points and neither driver did anything about it on the track.

Bruno Senna: For the avoidable collision with Timo Glock plus the fact he nearly took Kobayashi and Button immediatly afterwards

Aerond · Post by **Aerond** » 28 Jun 2010, 07:42

The stewards: For "rewarding" Hamilton about passing the Safety Car. It took too long and the penalty was too light to actually have any influence -well, yeah, Hamilton couldn´t approach Vettel after that, but he kept 2nd place anyway-. Maybe there shouldn´t be a penalty at all (but I think Hamilton passed the Safety Car on purpose, because he brakes, then he decides to pass it), but it should be a case of no penalty or something "real", not the farce we were forced to watch.
As some commentary team said, I´m sure the next race the rule will be clarified and nobody will be able to pass the Safety Car under any situation, but my feelings are that Hamilton is given a different treatment from the rest of the drivers for some reason.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 28 Jun 2010, 07:57

coops wrote:Fernando Alonso Diaz.

Things not going well? Blame everybody else.

I didn't know whether to laugh, cry or throw things at the screen when I realised he was asking, many laps after the SC incident, what had been the result of Hamilton's penalty.

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 28 Jun 2010, 08:06

Talking about commentators, Finnish commentators had somewhat blunder as well. When Hülkenberg retired and he got a radio message "Look for F", commentators were thinking it was referring to F-duct.

coops · Post by **coops** » 28 Jun 2010, 08:11

Bleu wrote:Talking about commentators, Finnish commentators had somewhat blunder as well. When Hülkenberg retired and he got a radio message "Look for F", commentators were thinking it was referring to F-duct.

<holds hand up sheepishly>
Me too, I thought maybe it'd fallen off although I was surprised they wanted him to go hunting for it.

I did have a pretty major hangover at the time, mind.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 28 Jun 2010, 08:16

Bleu wrote:Talking about commentators, Finnish commentators had somewhat blunder as well. When Hülkenberg retired and he got a radio message "Look for F", commentators were thinking it was referring to F-duct.

I thought they were saying "Look for S"
Then again it was like 11:30pm at the time where I was.

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 28 Jun 2010, 08:26

Alonso

His obsessive hatred of Lewis Hamilton is amusing at times, but it's also affecting his driving. What was further amusing is that himself and Ferarri were so busy trying to get people penalised for things they forgot 2 things- 1)they themselves are infamous for putting expediency over principle when it comes to the rules 2)their cars are second rate and won't be winning either the drivers or constructors championship this year.

Tealy · Post by **Tealy** » 28 Jun 2010, 10:00

Wizzie wrote:
Bleu wrote:Talking about commentators, Finnish commentators had somewhat blunder as well. When Hülkenberg retired and he got a radio message "Look for F", commentators were thinking it was referring to F-duct.

I thought they were saying "Look for S"
Then again it was like 11:30pm at the time where I was.

Quick question, does anyone know what Hulkenberg was actually being asked to do? I never figured that one out.

If a driver gets a reprimand for "Overtaking the Safety Car" for example. Then the next time said driver Overtakes a Safety car they will get punished. This presumably means that drivers like Hamilton could pick up a ton of reprimands without being punished for any of them. However I am in favour of the reprimands used this season, as someone said above the stewards were being blamed for ruining the race when they handed out punishments all the time and this is their (not perfect but decent) solution.

My ROTR is Ferrari - While I don't believe that Hamilton deliberately overtook the safety car I do think it is a major blunder that the stewards took as long as they did to (rightly) punish him for it. However whinging that one driver got lucky when you didn't really doesn't hide the fact that your team are failing epically at the moment. Ferrari were rubbish this weekend and there is no getting away from that, but what makes it worse is the manner of the whole thing. While Schumacher just gets on with the job after Mercades' slow car + strategy blunder Alonso was complaining that he didn't get a free present off of the FIA. I personally think we have seen the end of Ferrari International Assistance and Ferrari aren't used to having things go against them. Their solution: Tell everyone how unfair it is everytime something goes wrong in the hope of some sympathy from the stewards. Ferrari were pathetic this weekend and they only had themselves to blame for it.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 28 Jun 2010, 10:07

Tealy wrote:Quick question, does anyone know what Hulkenberg was actually being asked to do? I never figured that one out.

I think it was because the car was on fire, Hulk was being ordered to find a fire station or somesuch, which is marked with a F, apparently.

coops · Post by **coops** » 28 Jun 2010, 10:14

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:I think it was because the car was on fire.

It wasnt on fire at the time but the pit-wall thought there was a high risk of fire due to the nature of the problem, whatever it was.

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 28 Jun 2010, 10:22

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
Tealy wrote:Quick question, does anyone know what Hulkenberg was actually being asked to do? I never figured that one out.

I think it was because the car was on fire, Hulk was being ordered to find a fire station or somesuch, which is marked with a F, apparently.

That was it, he was being asked to look for a fire marshal- they told him that specifically over the radio then said 'look for F'.

Felt sorry for the guy because it was a good race for him and a desperately needed opportunity to come away with points to rescue a horrible year.

kowalski · Post by **kowalski** » 28 Jun 2010, 10:49

Tealy wrote:Ferrari were rubbish this weekend and there is no getting away from that, but what makes it worse is the manner of the whole thing.

Are you sure about that? Alonso was faster than Hamilton at the time of the Webber crash. Hamilton needed a new front wing so the odds are that Alonso would have gotten past him during their stops. Massa was also on line for a decent stack of points - and would have liekly finished ahead of Button...

Other than horrible timing of the safety car and Hamilton cheeting in what way where they 'rubbish'? - yes, they where pissed off - buit they certainly had some good speed....

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 28 Jun 2010, 10:55

Captain Hammer wrote:My Reject of the Race is ... FERRARI! In order to understand why I'm giving it to them, you have to look at things chronologically:

1) Hamilton comes upon the safety car, hestitates for a moment and gets penalised
2) Alonso flags him for it
3) The stewards take twenty minutes to decide what action to take
4) Hamilton has enough of a gap to Button that when he takes the penalty, he does not lose track position
5) Alonso complains to Ferrari about it
6) Ferrari agree it is unfair and tell Alonso to keep his head down while they see what they can do
7) Nine cars are flagged for speeding in pit lane

My suspicion is that Ferrari, upset about Hamilton not really losing anything from the penalty (which is the way it should have been - he didn't deserve it), have gone looking for other people to flag for rule breakages. Crucially, Button, Barrichello, Hulkenberg, Kubica, Petrov, Sutil, Liuzzi, Buemi and de la Rosa were all in front of Alonso and Massa after the stops. If the stewards issue post-race penalties that change the race in Ferrari's favour, it's not going to be good - because Ferrari ran a "PR event" at Fiorano ahead of the race and the car just happened to be carrying Valencia-spec parts, leading to a lot of people suspecting they were conducting an illegal in-season test and dressing it up as a media function to get away with it.

Sigh. I thought we'd finally finished with all this FIA-Ferrari conspiracy theory crap. Especially since it's Alonso who's complaining that the result was orchestrated by the stewards.

And no, I'm not hard-wired to disagree with Captain Hammer before I've even read it. I'll read it and disagree if I disagree or agree if I agree.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 28 Jun 2010, 11:25

LukeB wrote:
Myrvold wrote:Just wondering, what is the point with reprimands?

When the stewards actully punish drivers, everyone complains about them ruining the race and discouraging racing (see: previous seasons with penalty happy stewards, this season with Schumacher at Monaco). When they cut back on punishing drivers people complain about them letting drivers get away with things (see: pretty much any controversial incident involving Hamilton this season).
Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

I agree entirely. People won't be happy whatever the Stewards do. People are griping that the 5-second penalties weren't harsh enough, yet everyone complained when Schumacher was punished 20 for his overtake on Alonso. And if those 5-second penalties HAD been 20, everyone would have been complaining about how the results had been decided off the track by overly-draconian stewards. People are complaining about the length of time it took to punish Hamilton, yet if the stewards had thrown the book at him straight away without properly looking at the incident... well, you get the idea.

muttley · Post by **muttley** » 28 Jun 2010, 11:36

Tealy wrote: Ferrari were rubbish this weekend

So, both cars in 3rd and 4th place before the SC is now "rubbish"? Interesting.

Tealy · Post by **Tealy** » 28 Jun 2010, 12:02

muttley wrote:
Tealy wrote: Ferrari were rubbish this weekend

So, both cars in 3rd and 4th place before the SC is now "rubbish"? Interesting.

Kobayashi was 3rd for most of the race after the safety car. You telling me he was the 3rd fastest driver out there?If Ferrari had genuine pace I think we would have seen it, instead they did nothing but trundle round in their positions for the rest of the grand prix.

Just a side-thought. You can always tell when Ferrari, Hamilton or Schumacher have been involved in something controversial because everyone has such polarising views on the situation. Yet this doesnt happen if something happened involving Force India for example.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 28 Jun 2010, 12:30

Tealy wrote:
muttley wrote:
Tealy wrote: Ferrari were rubbish this weekend

So, both cars in 3rd and 4th place before the SC is now "rubbish"? Interesting.

Kobayashi was 3rd for most of the race after the safety car.

That's after the safety car. Where was he before it?

muttley · Post by **muttley** » 28 Jun 2010, 12:34

Tealy wrote:Kobayashi was 3rd for most of the race after the safety car. You telling me he was the 3rd fastest driver out there?If Ferrari had genuine pace I think we would have seen it.

What's your point exactly? Kobayashi was 17th and then was gifted a 3rd place from the safety car (which he defended amazingly) while Ferrari were 3rd and 4th (because they had pace) and lost positions because of the SC.

Post by **mario** » 28 Jun 2010, 12:42

fjackdaw wrote:
LukeB wrote:
Myrvold wrote:Just wondering, what is the point with reprimands?

When the stewards actully punish drivers, everyone complains about them ruining the race and discouraging racing (see: previous seasons with penalty happy stewards, this season with Schumacher at Monaco). When they cut back on punishing drivers people complain about them letting drivers get away with things (see: pretty much any controversial incident involving Hamilton this season).
Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

I agree entirely. People won't be happy whatever the Stewards do. People are griping that the 5-second penalties weren't harsh enough, yet everyone complained when Schumacher was punished 20 for his overtake on Alonso. And if those 5-second penalties HAD been 20, everyone would have been complaining about how the results had been decided off the track by overly-draconian stewards. People are complaining about the length of time it took to punish Hamilton, yet if the stewards had thrown the book at him straight away without properly looking at the incident... well, you get the idea.

And I'll agree with you guys as well - when it comes down to dealing with transgressions, the stewards are always going to be hit, whether they are doing the right or wrong thing. After all, given that the race director was probably more concerned about Webber and Heikki at the time, and ensuring that the debris was cleared away as soon as possible for a restart, it would have been quite easy to overlook both Hamilton and the safety car, and the drivers who were going too quickly under the safety car, for a number of laps.

Tealy wrote:
muttley wrote:
Tealy wrote: Ferrari were rubbish this weekend

So, both cars in 3rd and 4th place before the SC is now "rubbish"? Interesting.

Kobayashi was 3rd for most of the race after the safety car. You telling me he was the 3rd fastest driver out there?If Ferrari had genuine pace I think we would have seen it, instead they did nothing but trundle round in their positions for the rest of the grand prix.

Valencia is not the best of tracks for passing, however. After all, the moment Kobayashi pitted, Button set the fastest lap of the race, and his lap times dropped by around a second a lap. And Button can, and has, forced his way past other drivers when presented with the chance - yet he was stuck about a second off Kobayashi's rear wing for most of the race (and Kobayashi wasn't that slow either - not exactly third fastest, but certainly comparable to the lower end of the points scorers, like Buemi, and at times comparable to Rubens and Kubica). So, I doubt that Ferrari were willingly "trundling around" as you put it - OK, they didn't pass, but not that many drivers did force their way through in the end.
Overall, I would say that Ferrari probably did have better pace then they were able to show - I suspect that Alonso could easily have finished in the top 6, as could have Massa, if they had not ended up stuck in traffic.

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 28 Jun 2010, 12:59

I just enjoyed that bit where Massa did bugger all and Alonso lost track position to a malajusted psychotic in a Sauber.

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 28 Jun 2010, 15:51

My reject of the race is Kovalainen, for putting Webber in a lot of danger by braking too early.

Honorable mention goes to Alonso for whining, after he was promoted(!) a place after the time penalties.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 28 Jun 2010, 16:49

LukeB wrote:
Myrvold wrote:Just wondering, what is the point with reprimands?

When the stewards actully punish drivers, everyone complains about them ruining the race and discouraging racing (see: previous seasons with penalty happy stewards, this season with Schumacher at Monaco). When they cut back on punishing drivers people complain about them letting drivers get away with things (see: pretty much any controversial incident involving Hamilton this season).
Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

You are missing something. A reprimand should only be given once... not twice. When a driver is reprimanded twice on two or three races, there should really be a penalty. Agree?

agree entirely. People won't be happy whatever the Stewards do. People are griping that the 5-second penalties weren't harsh enough, yet everyone complained when Schumacher was punished 20 for his overtake on Alonso. And if those 5-second penalties HAD been 20, everyone would have been complaining about how the results had been decided off the track by overly-draconian stewards. People are complaining about the length of time it took to punish Hamilton, yet if the stewards had thrown the book at him straight away without properly looking at the incident... well, you get the idea.

It was complains because it was unclear what to do, most thought that Schumacher, Brawn and Mercedes did a legal thing. This however is not a legal thing, it isn't a think to debate, neither it is a clear violation, and therefor a 5 sec penalty is... well... not enough. However I do think if it was only one or two cars that did it, I do think it would've been a higher penalty.
But why using that long time on Hamilton anyway? It doesn't matter if he saw the line or not. Drivers should know where the lines are before they start. And he took a chance, but misjudged it. It was clear from the tv-cameras. There is no point in evaluating it. It was a mistake, that led to a violation of the rules.

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 28 Jun 2010, 17:07

Klon wrote:People complaining about keeping track position despite penalties - Last year, Nürburgring, I pointed the same out with Webber's drive-through and was chewed on. I know, it's Hamilton, but hypocrisy much?

I don't think this is the same as the Nurburgring case though. There, Webber's offence was unrelated to his track position, whereas at Valencia, Hamilton gained a lot of time through his offence.

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 28 Jun 2010, 17:12

Waris wrote:My reject of the race is Kovalainen, for putting Webber in a lot of danger by braking too early.

I was under the impression Kovey braked at his normal point, which happens to be about 50m before Webber's.

From where I was sitting it looked like Heikki took the inside line to defend, Webber followed him but didn't commit to passing on either side (he had room on both sides) then Heikki took a little kink back to the racing line and braked.

Heikki's defending would have fine but for the massive performance difference between the two cars, Webber's tactics would also have been fine, as it looked like he was just about to commit to the inside.

I can't blame Heikki for defending his track position, and I can't blame him for braking in the normal place, in fact one of the first rules of defending your position is don't outbreak yourself!

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 28 Jun 2010, 19:25

Myrvold wrote:
LukeB wrote:
Myrvold wrote:Just wondering, what is the point with reprimands?

When the stewards actully punish drivers, everyone complains about them ruining the race and discouraging racing (see: previous seasons with penalty happy stewards, this season with Schumacher at Monaco). When they cut back on punishing drivers people complain about them letting drivers get away with things (see: pretty much any controversial incident involving Hamilton this season).
Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

You are missing something. A reprimand should only be given once... not twice. When a driver is reprimanded twice on two or three races, there should really be a penalty. Agree?

Who got a reprimand?

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 28 Jun 2010, 20:13

Not in this race. But I know Hamilton have got two reprimands this year, in two or three races. And there have been at least one other driver with a reprimand this year.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 28 Jun 2010, 20:36

Ross Prawn wrote:But his silly one fingered gesture whenever he does anything good is getting on my tits.

Get a bib.

Also, the track for ROTR. There's no way Kamui Kobayashi should have been where he was for the whole race.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 28 Jun 2010, 20:40

Captain Hammer is going to hate me for this... but here's a shout out for Button, for staying so long behind Kobayashi. You just know Lewis would have tried (and knackered his tyres in the process as well).

Jordan192 · Post by **Jordan192** » 28 Jun 2010, 20:50

Waris wrote:My reject of the race is Kovalainen, for putting Webber in a lot of danger by braking too early.

As my motorbike instructor said to me, "Only A [RHYMING EXPLETIVE DELETED] Hits The Car in Front"

It was a perfectly reasonable mistake to make given the closing speed, it wasn't indicative of some kind of inherent incompetence, but make no mistake - it was absolutely 100% Webber's mistake - There was no overlap, no doubt about who should be making room for the other, he didn't leave enough room and went into the guy in front.

Also, regarding Hamilton's penatly (or more precisely, the reaction to it): What the hell? He commited the offence, he was penalised. He was fast enough to not lose a position. This is not somehow unjust or a new thing.
It's a bad time of year to be making Football analogies, granted, but when was the last time a Penalty being saved was considered a perversion of justice?

Reject is Mercedes though, Ferrari just got unlucky and then acted like cocks afterwards. Merc were genuinely dire.

Ross Prawn · Post by **Ross Prawn** » 29 Jun 2010, 00:25

thehemogoblin wrote:
Ross Prawn wrote:But his silly one fingered gesture whenever he does anything good is getting on my tits.

Get a bib.

I did. It helped, thanks. Now he just pisses me off.