F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

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Jeroen Krautmeir
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F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by Jeroen Krautmeir »

Conceived by me as I saw Klon's wonderful conception, this is just another thing of mine to use up my holiday... To put it simply, we are going to create our own team ranking. To do this, each of us will judge a given driver in 5 categories which will be given later with points scores from 0.0 to 10.0 (in 0.5-steps). Then after a distinct period of time (1 or 2 days, depending of the activity in this thread), we'll have a points average for each driver, which will put the (*enters music for additional awesomeness*) Inoffical F1 Rejects Team's Ranking.

And that's right, you just saw me copy-paste nearly half of Klon's work. :P

Here are the five categories:

Raw Pace: Simple. How fast was the team?
Driver Selection: Was the team smart with choosing their drivers?
Strategy Making: Were they just relying on shamans or actually cracking their head on what to do?
Entertainment Value: This should be straightforward. :P
Personal Sympathy: If you think that Andrea Moda should have been given a second chance, or that Life should have been given more money to showcase their W12 properly, then here is the place to yell out your feelings!

AND WE BEGIN!!!
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***Stewart Grand Prix***

Raw Pace: 7.0 They had it, but were plagued in 97' and 98' by terrible reliability.
Driver Selection: 7.5 Rubens was an obvious choice, but Jackie blundered on choosing Jan, and making a big fuss of him.
Strategy Making: 7.0 I really can't say anything :P
Entertainment Value: 8.0 I guess Jackie being speechless at Monaco 97' is good enough!
Personal Sympathy: 9.0 They should have been there longer, and Ford shouldn't have been asses and buy the team over. Jackie and Paul had the brains and Ford had the brawn, but lose the brains, and you're nothing.
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by Klon »

Am I pathetic for feeling full of pride, because someone think an idea of mine was good enough to copy? :mrgreen:

Raw Pace - 7.5
The cars were quite decent in terms of raw power but tend to break down while looking at it.

Driver Selection - 8.0
Rubens is always a good choice and taking on Herbert after the Magnussen disappointment was intelligent as well.

Strategy Making - 6.0
To be honest, I never saw anything special but there were no big troubles either, at least as far as I know.

Reliability? - 1.0
Driving cheese, really.

Entertainment Value - 7.0
Well, Stewart is quite an interesting person, so his team wasn't bound to be too boring either.

Personal Sympathy - 7.0
Well, they were pretty decent but I liked others better.
Last edited by Klon on 17 Jun 2010, 01:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by Pointrox »

Raw Pace - 8
With good driver behind the wheel and when the car didn't brake down (vide European GP '99), they were very competitive.

Driver Selection - 10
They've had some reliable drivers in their team. Enough said.

Strategy Making - 5
I can't really tell if they used any, so I'll rate it neutrally.

Entertainment Value
- 6
Most of the time their cars kept on breaking down - that wasn't very amusing, if you ask me.

Personal Sympathy - 8
They were doing fine, unlike when they were fully taken over by Ford and renamed to Jaguar Racing.
I really liked their livery (tartan stripe around the whole car).
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by Aerond »

Stewart;

Raw pace: 9 - Pretty strong for a "new" team. They were incredible in 99, in just their 3rd season.
Driver selection: 8 - Barrichello and Herbert were great, but keeping Magnussen for a second try in 98 wasn´t very wise.
Strategy making: 8 - Thanks to it they got some brilliant results in 97 and it brought the first win in 99
Entertainment: 7 - Watching both Stewarts burn at Melbourne grid in 99 made me laugh.
Personal sympathy: 8 - I used to like them a lot, but didn´t like it much when Jackie sold the team to Jaguar...
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by Tealy »

Do you think we should have a category to cover a team's reliability as well?

Stewart

Raw Pace - 8.0
Very quick in all three years competing. For a team of their experience at the time their performance was incredible.

Driver Selection - 7.5
Barrichello and Herbert were good fits for this team. I don't think Magnussen was a bad choice either given his prior record but keeping him for 98' was a mistake. Sadly Verstappen wasn't much good to them either.

Strategy Making - 6.0
Sometimes they would pull a result out of the bag in 99' but in the first two years their strategy was to pray for their cars to get to the end of the race. Usually that was enough for a good finish.

Entertainment Value - 6.5
Far from the most exiting team on the grid but it was great watching their 99' year pan out.

Personal Sympathy - 8.5
Good boss, good drivers, great atmosphere in the team and above all the fact that they were a privateer team mean I really liked them.

Hopefully to be added
Reliability - 1.5
Very few teams have had so many unreliability problems as the Stewart team did. They were abysmal at getting their cars to the finish line.
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by shinji »

Why were Stewart first?

6.5 - Good for what they were, not incredible
8 - Verstappen, Barrichello and Herbert bring the good, Magnussen the hilarity
7.5 - Had several good wet races, so seemed to know what they were doing
8 - Won one of the best races of the '90s, and had a good underdog spirit
7 - No particular affiliation but they seemed genuine and that's all I ask of really in supporting something
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by watka »

Raw Pace - 8.0
It didn't take them long to get up to speed, especially with Barrichello at the wheel.

Driver Selection - 8.0
To be fair, Magnussen had all the credentials on paper. The error was selecting Verstappen as a replacement, who is not the best driver at bring home his car.

Strategy Making - 7.0
They weren't as quick as at least 4 teams at any one team, so their results had some strategy element.

Entertainment Value - 8.5
Jackie in the paddock, Monaco '97, and Europe '99. Smiles all round.

Personal Sympathy - 9.0
It was a crime what Jaguar did to them.
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by tristan1117 »

Raw Pace: 7.5- Pretty fast for a new team, Magnussen struggled but Barrichello and Herbert were quick.
Driver Selection 7.5- Barrichello, Herbert and Jos the Boss were good, Magnussen was a bit overhyped, but many have been over the years.
Strategy Making 7.0- Mostly good, not too many blunders.
Entertainment Value 8.0- Jackie Stewart and the gang were entertaining especially at Europe 99. They're more exciting then Christian Horner constantly reassuring us that everything in Red Bull is OK.
Personal Sympathy 8.5- Too bad Jaguar (whoops, I meant FORD) bought them out.
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by TomWazzleshaw »

Stewart Grand Prix:
Raw Pace: 7.0. They were quick but the car kept blowing up too much.
Driver Selection: 8.5. The only bad choice was keeping Magnassun for 98
Strategy Making: 6.5. I was 4 when they last raced but from what I hear and from what I've seen on youtube a few of their best results came through stratagy.
Entertainment Value: 6.5. Refer to previous point for this score.
Personal Sympathy: 8.5. Ford ruined everything by buying the team out.
Reliability: 1.0. The car spent more time on the back of a tow truck or on fire than doing anything meaninful.
Last edited by TomWazzleshaw on 16 Jun 2010, 08:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by Cynon »

***Stewart Grand Prix***

Raw Pace: 6.0. The cars were decently fast but they went kablamo too many times. Hard to be fast when you're not moving at all.
Driver Selection: 5.5. Barrichello was an okay choice at the time, but Jan Magnussen? Really? The drivers didn't give them their best results as much as ...
Strategy Making: 9.0. This is where their results came from.
Entertainment Value: 5.5. I seldom find a team boring enough to use a white car entertaining. But they had Jackie Stewart...
Personal Sympathy: 4.0 Jackie and Paul Stewart knew what they were doing, which is great for results, but they had Rubens Barrichello driving for them, and they sold the team to Jaguar. Their car was ugly, but they were more genuine than Williams.
Reliability: 1.0. Stewart Grand Prix, or rather, How To Make An Art Out of Mechanical Failures. They should have called the team Murphy's Law Grand Prix, because the cars seldom held together... and isn't it ironic that unreliability plagued the same team years down the road?
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by Nessafox »

Raw Pace: . 7/10
relatively fast, but fragile and inconsistent
Driver Selection: 7.10
Good drivers, or potentially good drivers, but not able to support the second driver decently
Strategy Making: 7/10
inconsistent, but it was strategy that give them their only win and some of their podia
Entertainment Value: 7,5/10
Nothing special, but not bad either.
Personal Sympathy: 9/10
Reliability: 3/10
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by Jeroen Krautmeir »

F1 REJECTS INOFFICIAL TEAM RATINGS

Overall
Stewart Grand Prix- 7,417

Raw Pace
Stewart Grand Prix- 7,409

Driver Selection
Stewart Grand Prix- 7,772

Strategy Making
Stewart Grand Prix- 6,909

Entertainment Value
Stewart Grand Prix- 7,136

Personal Sympathy
Stewart Grand Prix- 7,863

Apologies for the wait, I have been a bit busy lately. So I'm afraid we wont have the reliability category! But next up is:
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

***Equipe Ligier***

Raw Pace: 8.0 Sometimes they had it, sometimes they didn't.

Driver Selection: 9.0 Very patriot when choosing their drivers (except for the Brundell choice). But overall, did well in choosing well-talented Frenchmen, like Laffite and Panis.

Strategy Making: 5.0 Neutral.

Entertainment Value: 10.0 C'mon guys! Guy Ligier going around attempting to destroy whole racetracks is epic! :D

Personal Sympathy- 10.0 I liked them, and I miss them.
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by Phoenix »

I have a couple suggestions:
·First, it would be nice to add a "Reliability" mark for each team, I think.
·Second, and this is a suggestion for when we rate long-living teams such as McLaren, Williams, etc., we could divide the ratings for each decade of activity for the team.
·Third, if we rate very old teams, rating their strategy will be very difficult or impossible. If we rated BRM, for example, we should eliminate that mark.
And now, with the team: Ligier
Raw pace-7.0 "In the beginning, they made very fast cars, but from 1982 to 1984 they lost the north. They bounced back in 1985 and 1986, but from 1987 to 1992 they sucked badly, especially in 1988, which is still a mistery not solved by the science. They recovered in 1993, 1994 was average, and their 2 last years were good but not great."
Driver selection-7.0 "Some great choices (Laffite, Depailler, Pironi, Cheever, Arnoux, Johansson, Boutsen, Brundle, Blundell, Panis), but others were utterly uneducated (Jarier, Boesel, Hesnault). Oh, and they had to stand Aguri Suzuki and Pedro Diniz in 1995 and 1996 for commercial reasons."
Strategy making-5.0 "Nothing special."
Entertaining value-7.0 "Guy Ligier's temperamental moods got very amusing at times (such as when he kicked a telephone tecnician thinking he was a member of his own team), but after his sellout, it got dull. The drivers would put a good spectacle if the car let them, though."
Personal sympathy-9.0 "A team always going to be missed, definately."
Reliability-7.0 "Well, they lacked some of it back in the early 80s when they had the chance to be champions, but the blue cars usually tended to be OK in this regard."
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by Jeroen Krautmeir »

Phoenix: Yeah, I've ditched going further back, so next up is a 2000s team. Just haven't thought of one yet!
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by thehemogoblin »

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:Phoenix: Yeah, I've ditched going further back, so next up is a 2000s team. Just haven't thought of one yet!


Prost?
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by Jeroen Krautmeir »

thehemogoblin wrote:
Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:Phoenix: Yeah, I've ditched going further back, so next up is a 2000s team. Just haven't thought of one yet!


Prost?

Lol. Just what I had in mind!
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by Jeroen Krautmeir »

SO Ligier is apparently too old, so lets go into the "future". WITH;

***British American Racing (BAR)***

I am too busy to post my opinion right now, but I will soon! F1 Rejects, feel free to start without me!
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by mario »

Phoenix, you could also add to the list of poor driver choices by Ligier the decision by Guy Ligier to bring in Ickx in 1979 to replace the injured Depailler, when Ickx never got within a second of his team mate (and was routinely much further back).
In fact, I really wish that i could find an article that I saw elsewhere about the 1979 season, explaining why Ligier was so strong in the opening races, only to fall back afterwards.
But, essentially, it pointed out that Ligier, thanks to its sportscar roots, maganed to build a very torsionally stiff chassis, which meant that they could maximise their ground effects, at a time when the Lotus chassis was simply not strong enough (there is the famous quote that "The Lotus 79 chassis had all the torsional rigidity of wet lettuce"). Mclaren also couldn't build a strong enough chassis, whilst the Alfa V12 in the Brabham meant the car had a very high centre of gravity, and was quite heavy (although the Ligier was a bit overweight, due to the chassis). Meanwhile, Ferrari couldn't build proper venturi tunnels, because their 12 cylinder boxer engine was in the way, and the Williams FW07 was not ready for the start of the season.

So, for the opening few races, Ligier had the best car, and it showed when they beat Lotus by over a second in Buenos Aires. It was all the more entertaining for Ligier because as the car had been unloaded, a couple of Lotus engineers were looking at the car, and were saying "Why have htey done the suspension like that?" and "Why are the sidepods shaped in such a strange way?", before one of them was heard to remark "It [the Ligier] is a mess - if that thing wins a race, I'll resign immediately".

What is interesting is that the article then went on to describe why they fell back. There was an old legend that Guy Ligier found the perfect suspension set up for the opening races, wrote it down on a cigarette packet and then lost it, and they were simply unable to find the right set up again. However, fun though it may be, it seems that it was a deliberate false rumour put out by rival teams (Lotus in particular), who were bitter at Ligier's success.

Simply put, it was down to monetary problems - Ligier were operating on a shoestring (the mechanics had to sleep in the garage, because the team couldn't afford hotels), and simply couldn't afford to develop the car. Depailler's accident then robbed them of an experienced development driver, and the combination of superior tyres and power offset the disadvantages of the Ferrari T4 for long enough for Ferrari to take the title.
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by Tealy »

Don't give up on teams just because people haven't posted anything after a few days. I don't visit this forum anywhere near as much as I do the Paul Stoddart memorial forum and never got a chance to put my thoughts in on Ligier.

And going back on topic...

BAR

Raw Pace - 6.5
Only really had one season of success. The rest of the time they were stuck in the midfield which was embarrasing considering their drivers and the funds the team had.

Driver Selection - 8.0
Villeneuve was a great signing in '99 but the driver himself started to go downhill as the team improved. The second driver was constantly improved as the team got better going from Zonta to Panis and then Button who really shone in this team. Plus you've got to add major points for bringing Takuma Sato into the team.

Strategy Making - 6.0
I may be wrong but I can't think of any major decision making that benefitted them much in a race. In their more successful seasons their strategy was just to use the engine to its maximum capability.

Entertainment Value - 6.0
BAR wern't all that exiting on track, but Takuma Sato was which has balanced my score out.

Personal Sympathy - 2.5
Team bourne out of a tobacco company with tons of money and even more arrogance, especially in that first year. I never really liked them much and only supported them in '04 when they were Ferrari's main challengers.
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by DemocalypseNow »

British American Racing

Raw Pace - 5.0
Apart from 2004 every BAR was either extremely average or rubbish.

Driver Selection - 5.0
5.0 chosen simply because it's bang in the middle. It was like a rollercoaster - that went underground at the start. Villeneuve and Zonta...oh dear. Dumping Zonta for Panis was at least a step in the right direction, and then Button/Sato was a good idea - long term investments (one of which did eventually come good).

Strategy Making - 4.0
What strategy?

Entertainment Value - 5.5
Would have been 2.0 without Taku.

Personal Sympathy - 0.0
Signed a mediocre ex-champion, used a rent-a-chassis from Reynard and bought some discount Supertec engines - and then claimed they'd thrash everyone.
And subsequently failed epically.
Arrogant to the extreme, poorly managed and dumped Sato (only for Honda to intervene and get Aguri Suzuki to make a team for him).
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by tommykl »

BAR

Raw Pace: 5
Were quite average except or 2004.

Driver Choice: 6.5
Zonta was a really bad choice, as was Villeneuve, but Panis, Sato and Button make up for it.

Strategy: 3
The only strategy I remember from them is to have an underweight car, and we know how that turned out

Entertainment Value: 5
Flatout boring on the track except when Sato was driving, but hilarious with their claim that they would destroy everyone.

Personal Sympathy: 0
Tobacco advertising (yaaawn), lots of cash (yaaawn) and a HUUGE ego. I tend not to like teams like that.
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by TomWazzleshaw »

BAR

Raw Pace: 5
Didn't do much in any season other than 2004

Driver Choice: 7
Zonta was a pathetic choice and Villeneuve was average at best after 2000 but Salo (He drove 3 races for them replacing Zonta in 99 and scored their best finish of the season :lol: ), Panis, Button and Sato made up for that.

Strategy: 2.5
Spent more time going backwards than anything else.

Entertainment Value: 5
Boring as hell on the track (except for Sato) but anything but boring off the track with all their publicocrap.

Personal Sympathy: 0
They only avoided being in the negative points region because Sato drove for them :lol:
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by MinardiFan95 »

BAR
Raw Pace - 4.5: Never really did much until 2004

Driver Choice - 6.5: Would have been [jeremy_clarkson] eleventy million [/jeremy_clarkson] if all their drivers were like Takuma Sato. Sadly that was not the case and for most of the team's duration in F1 their first driver was Jacques 'Whinging' Villeneuve.

Strategy - 4: Never had much, if any strategic brilliance throughout their time in F1.

Entertainment Value: 5: 0 (without Sato) 10 (with Sato) : Utterly boring until they signed Takuma Sato.

Personal Sympathy: 0 - The highest score I could give a team which was owned by a tobacco company.
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by Klon »

I agree with Tealy, you have to show patience, some of my drivers take quite some time to get some votes. I'd be happy to help you (re: your email) but I didn't quite get your problem, could you send me a private message here?

BAR

Raw Pace - 8.0
Due to Honda engines, they actually were quite good in this regard.

Driver Selection - 3.5
Well, this is where they lose out. I'm not joining the usual Villeneuve bashing, but I agree that after 2002 they should have parted ways for both Villeneuve's and BAR's gain. Takuma Sato sure is bonus points, but making Button your team leader is NOT what I consider to be a good move

Strategy Making - 6.0
Fairly decent, not causing too much trouble...

Entertainment Value - 7.0
BAR in itself were not the priniciple of a watchable team, but Sato guarantees 7 points no matter what you do.

Personal Sympathy - 3.5
Lots of money not used well. Also, there's this ever-lasting rumour about the team and Honda blocking Sato from success with experimental parts in 2004. Although I liked their guts of going full tobacco power in this ever so annoying age of "Wah! Wah! Smoking's bad!"
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by Phoenix »

mario wrote:Phoenix, you could also add to the list of poor driver choices by Ligier the decision by Guy Ligier to bring in Ickx in 1979 to replace the injured Depailler, when Ickx never got within a second of his team mate (and was routinely much further back).
In fact, I really wish that i could find an article that I saw elsewhere about the 1979 season, explaining why Ligier was so strong in the opening races, only to fall back afterwards.
But, essentially, it pointed out that Ligier, thanks to its sportscar roots, maganed to build a very torsionally stiff chassis, which meant that they could maximise their ground effects, at a time when the Lotus chassis was simply not strong enough (there is the famous quote that "The Lotus 79 chassis had all the torsional rigidity of wet lettuce"). Mclaren also couldn't build a strong enough chassis, whilst the Alfa V12 in the Brabham meant the car had a very high centre of gravity, and was quite heavy (although the Ligier was a bit overweight, due to the chassis). Meanwhile, Ferrari couldn't build proper venturi tunnels, because their 12 cylinder boxer engine was in the way, and the Williams FW07 was not ready for the start of the season.

So, for the opening few races, Ligier had the best car, and it showed when they beat Lotus by over a second in Buenos Aires. It was all the more entertaining for Ligier because as the car had been unloaded, a couple of Lotus engineers were looking at the car, and were saying "Why have htey done the suspension like that?" and "Why are the sidepods shaped in such a strange way?", before one of them was heard to remark "It [the Ligier] is a mess - if that thing wins a race, I'll resign immediately".

What is interesting is that the article then went on to describe why they fell back. There was an old legend that Guy Ligier found the perfect suspension set up for the opening races, wrote it down on a cigarette packet and then lost it, and they were simply unable to find the right set up again. However, fun though it may be, it seems that it was a deliberate false rumour put out by rival teams (Lotus in particular), who were bitter at Ligier's success.

Simply put, it was down to monetary problems - Ligier were operating on a shoestring (the mechanics had to sleep in the garage, because the team couldn't afford hotels), and simply couldn't afford to develop the car. Depailler's accident then robbed them of an experienced development driver, and the combination of superior tyres and power offset the disadvantages of the Ferrari T4 for long enough for Ferrari to take the title.

This is a very interesting post...I forgot about Ickx driving for then in 1979. It was probably signed because of experience, but he hadn't driven regularly in Formula 1 since 1975 and seemed past his best ever since he signed for Lotus. It showed.
I thought Ligier had a healthy budget. They had sponsorship from Gitanes, mainly. If it was funded, or influenced in any way by the French government at that time, I don't know, though.
And now, with BAR...
RAW PACE-7.0 OK, so 1999 was an utter disaster, but the BARs were usually decent enough in that regard, and had some very good days, especially in 2004.
DRIVER SELECTION-5.5 Button proved to be a very safe and good investment, but Villeneuve didn't quite cut it as he should had. I can understand to an extent why the team chose Zonta in 1999 (he was the current WSC champion) but keeping it for 2000 was not right. And Sato was there for the Honda engines in the first place; albeit he performed OK in 2004, his performances were pale compared to what Button did (3rd against 8th in the standings). And don't ask about 2005: as someone else said: "Bonsai not banzai".
STRATEGY MAKING-7.0 They did the job, I guess.
ENTERTAINING VALUE-7.0 Villeneuve had his feisty moments, and we cannot forget Sato either, but mostly they were quite quiet.
PERSONAL SYMPATHY-3.0 A team that was formed from a giant tobacco company will never rank high in this regard in my books, just like if there was a team formed from a giant energetic drinks company.
RELIABILITY-6.5 2002 was a bad year, with a lot of Honda engines blow-ups, and 1999 was even worse, but regularly they were OK in this regard.
LIVERY RATING (sorry, I had to put it :lol: )-4.0-Dull. Just dull. Oh, well. there was 1999. Wait...Ghastly. Just ghastly.
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by watka »

BAR

Raw Pace: 6
What everyone else said. Struggled badly at the beginning. Came good in 2004. Anonymous midfielders in between.

Driver Choice: 6.5
Button, Sato, and Davidson counter off Zonta

Strategy: 2
Not the brightest team in the world.

Entertainment Value: 7
Villeneuve was occasionally interesting, their first livery was certainly interesting.

Personal Sympathy: 5
0 for the Reynard era, but lots for the Prodrive era. Button should have somehow got a win in 2004. Davidson should have had more of a chance also.
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by Nessafox »

mario wrote:Phoenix, you could also add to the list of poor driver choices by Ligier the decision by Guy Ligier to bring in Ickx in 1979 to replace the injured Depailler, when Ickx never got within a second of his team mate (and was routinely much further back).
In fact, I really wish that i could find an article that I saw elsewhere about the 1979 season, explaining why Ligier was so strong in the opening races, only to fall back afterwards.
But, essentially, it pointed out that Ligier, thanks to its sportscar roots, maganed to build a very torsionally stiff chassis, which meant that they could maximise their ground effects, at a time when the Lotus chassis was simply not strong enough (there is the famous quote that "The Lotus 79 chassis had all the torsional rigidity of wet lettuce"). Mclaren also couldn't build a strong enough chassis, whilst the Alfa V12 in the Brabham meant the car had a very high centre of gravity, and was quite heavy (although the Ligier was a bit overweight, due to the chassis). Meanwhile, Ferrari couldn't build proper venturi tunnels, because their 12 cylinder boxer engine was in the way, and the Williams FW07 was not ready for the start of the season.

So, for the opening few races, Ligier had the best car, and it showed when they beat Lotus by over a second in Buenos Aires. It was all the more entertaining for Ligier because as the car had been unloaded, a couple of Lotus engineers were looking at the car, and were saying "Why have htey done the suspension like that?" and "Why are the sidepods shaped in such a strange way?", before one of them was heard to remark "It [the Ligier] is a mess - if that thing wins a race, I'll resign immediately".

What is interesting is that the article then went on to describe why they fell back. There was an old legend that Guy Ligier found the perfect suspension set up for the opening races, wrote it down on a cigarette packet and then lost it, and they were simply unable to find the right set up again. However, fun though it may be, it seems that it was a deliberate false rumour put out by rival teams (Lotus in particular), who were bitter at Ligier's success.

Simply put, it was down to monetary problems - Ligier were operating on a shoestring (the mechanics had to sleep in the garage, because the team couldn't afford hotels), and simply couldn't afford to develop the car. Depailler's accident then robbed them of an experienced development driver, and the combination of superior tyres and power offset the disadvantages of the Ferrari T4 for long enough for Ferrari to take the title.



i read something (don't remember where and when) about lafitte saying ligier were convinced that they did the sidepods wrong, because of a wrong calculation in the windtunnel, corrected it, and suddenly weren't as competitive as before. but why they didn't change it back to the original shape, remains a mystery, unless that old legend there is true.
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by tristan1117 »

BAR

Raw Pace: 5.5 Weren't fast before 2004, before that, they had Jacques. After that, they had illegal fuel systems.
Driver Choice: 6.0 Button and Sato were (mostly) good, Zonta was terrible, Panis was OK and Jacques was up and down.
Strategy Making: 4.0 Better than Toyota, but I just can't get Zonta and Villeneuve crashing into each other at Germany 2000 and Craig Pollock's reaction out of my head.
Entertainment Value: 6.0 Takuma Sato added a point simply because of his podium, and getting second in the Constructors was nice. Fairly entertaining.
Personal Sympathy: 2.0 BAR never really appealed to me; the team was quite boring, Button and Taku were the only high points and they took out HWNSNBM at the 2004 Belgian GP. Aim your papayas!
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by Jeroen Krautmeir »

F1 REJECTS INOFFICIAL TEAM RATINGS

Overall
Stewart Grand Prix- 7,417
British American Racing- 4,787

Raw Pace
Stewart Grand Prix- 7,409
British American Racing- 5,833

Driver Selection
Stewart Grand Prix- 7,772
British American Racing- 6,055

Strategy Making
Stewart Grand Prix- 6,909
British American Racing- 4,277

Entertainment Value
Stewart Grand Prix- 7,136
British American Racing- 5,944

Personal Sympathy
Stewart Grand Prix- 7,863
British American Racing- 1,777

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

So BAR were pretty much pathetic. Now, we will go to a team which was founded by a Kiwi, in the 60s. There can only be one;

***McLaren Racing***

Go ahead guys!
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by Klon »

McLaren

Raw Pace - 9.5
McLaren is always a threat in terms of speed, even in their worse seasons they can still take valueable points from you.

Driver Selection - 10.0
Most likely the best team in that regard in F1 history, virtually always with top names, exceptions are rare (Kovalainen, the mid-90es-drivers alongside Häkkinen).

Strategy Making - 9.0
Very decent at it, can adapt and survive well.

Entertainment Value - 8.0
Very professional in itself, but internal bickering is always good stuff to watch and has quite some tradition in there

Personal Sympathy - 7.5
Out of the three current top teams they are the team with most of my support, despite having Button (which, really, says a lot about the other two teams...)
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by TomWazzleshaw »

McLaren

Raw Pace: 9.5
Always been there or thereabouts and even on bad days will take points off you.

Driver Choice: 9.5
Almost always picked some of the top drivers of the day. However there were a few exceptions (Fisichellaitis sufferer Heikki Kovaleinen being one of those)

Strategy: 9
They knew how to get the job done

Entertainment Value: 8
Professionalism at it's best but internal bickering and some of the on track performances (Kimi Japan 05, nuff said) made up for it.

Personal Sympathy: 7
Got screwed over epically by Mercedes in 04 and 05 which immediatly gives them a few points in that book and out of the top 3 teams I prefer them the most (however not as much as Renault :lol: )
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by Enforcer »

Raw Pace - 9.5 - More or less what Wizzie said. Worst years I can think of for them were the mid 90s and Hakkinen still hauled into the podium places.

Driver Choice - 9.0 - With the exception of Schumacher (who they did try to get), I think pretty much every top driver since about 1980 has driven for them. I'm docking them a point because with the exception of Hamilton and Hakkinen, they got established top guys rather than unearthing diamonds, and because of the amount of predictable Punch and Judy episodes that have occured from trying to keep two top drivers sweet.

Strategy - 9.0 - How often have McLaren dropped the ball on strategy calls? Not a lot.

Entertainment Value - 6.5 - The team itself has a certain sterility to it, but watching the intra team battles has been fun.

Personal Sympathy - 2.5 - McLaren have produced the most anti-Schumacher championship rivals since I started supporting him in the late 90s. So they score badly with me. Plus I don't like their prodigal talent, Lewis Hamilton, or how they handled the Hamilton/Alonso dynamic.
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by FullMetalJack »

Raw Pace - 9.0 - Always at the forefront of the grid, could have been a higher rating if it weren't for 1994, 1995, 2004, and to some extent 1996.

Driver Choice - 9.0 - Prost, Senna, Hakkinen, Berger, Hamilton, Coulthard, Button, Alonso, Raikkonen and Montoya were examples of excellent driver choices. Minus points for choosing Mansell (He was 42 and couldn't race as good anymore), Alliot and Magnussen.

Strategy - 9.0 - What Enforcer said.

Entertainment Value - 7.0 - Fairly entertaining with some interesting intra-team battles

Personal Sympathy - 2.5 - They've never been one of my favourite teams and plus they've been too successful for my sympathy.
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by Phoenix »

OK, lessee...
RAW PACE-9.0 Ever since its creation, McLaren produced very fast cars, except for a couple of bleak periods (1978-1980, 1994-1996).
DRIVER CHOICE-10 Hulme, Fittipladi, Watson, Prost, Lauda, Senna, Rosberg, Berger, Häkkinen, Coulthard, Räikkönen, Alonso, Hamilton, eeerrm, Button, why not...All fabulous McLaren drivers...Rarely erred in this regard *cough*Andretti *cough* Mansell *cough* Kovalainen *cough*
STRATEGY-9.0 I cannot remember particular moments, but they have always been on the right side.
ENTERTAINING VALUE-9.0 A serious outfit, so its awesome drivers brought in most of the fun with great battles. Special mention for the Prost-Senna and Alonso-Hamilton battles, as well as the Stepneygate.
PERSONAL SYMPATHY-9.5 Despite the Stepneygate, it's one hell of a legend of a team, and that ranks high in my books.
RELIABILITY-9.0 Usually great, 1988 and the latest years being its heights, though in some years (1993-1996, 2002, 2004-2006) it slipped badly.
LIVERY-10 The Marlboro livery from 1974 to 1996 was simple, but beautiful and really iconic. The orange livery of the early years was nice as well, and the West and Vodafone liveries made up for a fantastic replacement to Marlboro.
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by watka »

Raw Pace - 9.5 - Usually outstanding. You can't argue with a team that once won 15 out of 16 races in a season.

Driver Choice - 9.0 - Fantastic. Aside from Schumacher, they've probably had all of the most talented drivers in their seats since they started out. A few bad picks, but these have been rare.

Strategy - 9.0 - Top notch more often than not. Can win races without being the best team. Perhaps only matched for strategy by Schumacher-era Ferrari.

Entertainment Value - 8.0 - Even when they've been dominating, they've had intra-team scuffles or other controversies.

Personal Sympathy - 7.0 - Right now, I probably support them more than anyone else, and they are my local team. However, they are often the architects of their own downfall and can be as shady as Ferrari at times.
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by Cynon »

McLaren

Raw Pace - 8
Aside from early 2009 they have never been below the midfield IIRC.

Driver Selection - 9
Some of their drivers in the 1990s were pretty weak. I mean, David Coulthard?

Strategy Making - 9
Sadly masterful.

Entertainment Value - 6
Ronspeak, Montoya, Senna v. Prost, Hakkinen

Personal Sympathy - 1
I hate McLaren. Shadier than Ferrari and are the epitome of British scum. As much as I hate Fernando Alonso they shafted him for no good reason other than they had a British driver they wanted to support more than Alonso.

Reliability - 7
Usually the damn cars hold together, but whenever they've had reliability problems they don't fix them for the entire year...
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by MinardiFan95 »

McLaren

Raw Pace - 8.5 - At or around the front of the pack most of the time.

Driver Selection - 7 - Have had their fair share of very good drivers over the years, however their drivers have been involved in quite a bit of conflict with each other (Senna Vs. Prost, Hamilton vs. Alonso).

Strategy - 9.5 - At the moment they are easily the best team in terms of strategy decisions. Button's win at Melbourne this year proved this.

Entertainment - 5 - Not very entertaining from a F1 Rejects point of view, but the battles between their drivers drag the score up to 5.

Personal Sympathy - 0.5 - Its a team founded by a Kiwi and run by Pommies, who happen to be Australia's two main sporting rivals. Spygate and Liegate don't exactly help their cause in this area either
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by Jeroen Krautmeir »

F1 REJECTS INOFFICIAL TEAM RATINGS

Overall
McLaren Racing- 7,812
Stewart Grand Prix- 7,417
British American Racing- 4,787

Raw Pace
McLaren Racing- 9,062
Stewart Grand Prix- 7,409
British American Racing- 5,833

Driver Selection
McLaren Racing- 9,062
Stewart Grand Prix- 7,772
British American Racing- 6,055

Strategy Making
McLaren Racing- 9,062
Stewart Grand Prix- 6,909
British American Racing- 4,277

Entertainment Value
McLaren Racing- 7,187
Stewart Grand Prix- 7,136
British American Racing- 5,944

Personal Sympathy
Stewart Grand Prix- 7,863
McLaren Racing- 4,687
British American Racing- 1,777

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
So while you guys were pretty positive about McLaren, most of you don't feel sympathetic towards them. Stewart still leads in that category! But now, this team can always BE ON EDGE, and their pretty much BITTEN HEROES. Yep, it's;

***Jordan Grand Prix***

Raw Pace - 7.5
They were fast in the 90s, but it just went downhill after, well, Hill left. :D

Driver Selection - 8.5
Many good choices all around.

Strategy Making - 9.0
Their specialty in my opinion.

Entertainment Value - 7.0
When you have Eddie Jordan, you have a lot. ;)

Personal Sympathy - 10.0
I miss them alot. I especially miss the yellow. Sure, the Renaults are yellow for 2010, but their Renaults and not Jordans.

Go ahead!
Last edited by Jeroen Krautmeir on 28 Jun 2010, 12:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by TomWazzleshaw »

Jordan Grand Prix

Raw Pace: 7
Very hit or miss in this category but usually in the upper midfield

Driver Choice: 8
Mostly good driver choices (Frentzen, Heidfeld, Trulli, both Schumachers, Fisichella, Irive and Barry to name a few) but there were some absolute shockers as well (Hello Pantano :lol: )

Strategy: 6
No comment (Only ever saw them race when they were on their death beds)

Entertainment Value: 6.5
Eddie Jordan's outspokeness gains some points here as well as the somewhat entertaining if incredibly sour Frentzen saga back in 01

Personal Sympathy: 8.5
Deserved to win the 1999 championship with Frentzen for starters and their demise was a sad chapter in F1 history
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Re: F1 Rejects Teams Ratings

Post by FullMetalJack »

**THE GREAT JORDAN GRAND PRIX**

Raw Pace: 7
Usually had some decent pace, although when on their proverbial death bed in 2003-2005 they were really slow. At least Fisichella, Heidfeld and occasionally Monteiro had a bit of pace during that period.

Driver Choice: 8
Driver choices were generally good, M.Schumacher, Frentzen, Hill, Heidfeld, and of course, Alesi.

Strategy: 7.5
Reasonably good strategy, but not spectacular.

Entertainment Value: 10
Mostly due to the fact that they were my favourite team in the history of Formula 1.

Personal Sympathy: 10
Loved to have saw Frentzen win the 1999 Drivers Championship, shame what happened to them with the soulless Midland and Spyker. At least Force India are remotely interesting and I like them.
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