2015 Silly Season Thread

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mario
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by mario »

Simtek wrote:The entry list for next year has been updated. Manor and Caterham are still on it, but now Lotus joins them as an entry subject to confirmation. :|

One possible reason might be that Lotus had not formally confirmed their engine partner for 2015 when the FIA drew up their list - whilst it was rumoured for a long time, I think that the official confirmation of the Mercedes-Lotus deal only came a few weeks ago, which may have been when the list was prepared. Still, I'd agree that such a move is not auspicious - mind you, if I remember well, were they not also put down as "subject to confirmation" when the 2014 entry list was drawn up in 2013, only for that to be changed towards the start of this season?
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by Waris »

Simtek wrote:The entry list for next year has been updated. Manor and Caterham are still on it, but now Lotus joins them as an entry subject to confirmation. :|


Sauce?
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by Miguel98 »

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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by watka »

Marciello has snapped up the Sauber 3rd driver position: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/30642322

I wonder if he was ever a consideration for a Marussia seat when it looked like they'd be around for 2015. This move certainly gives indications that they think Marciello is ready.
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by f1andrea »

Exclusive: no problem in Lotus entry (italian)

http://www.blogf1.it/2014/12/29/lotus-n ... -nel-2015/

The story that Lotus entry was in trouble is a big big farce created by some stupid and inattentive media that don't know what write in winter..this story was reported by a lot of website only because each website copy among them
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by Bobby Doorknobs »

Waris wrote:
Simtek wrote:The entry list for next year has been updated. Manor and Caterham are still on it, but now Lotus joins them as an entry subject to confirmation. :|


Sauce?

[url=http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/entry_lists_decisions/files/THE%20WHOLE%202015%20F1%20ENTRY%20LIST%2022.12.2014[2].pdf]Here.[/url] Although as mario said, they were "subject to confirmation" this time last year as well (as were Marussia). It could be meaningless, but then again...
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by Captain Hammer »

I'm pretty sure mario is right - this isn't the first time that they've done this.
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

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Simtek wrote:[url=http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/entry_lists_decisions/files/THE%20WHOLE%202015%20F1%20ENTRY%20LIST%2022.12.2014[2].pdf]Here.[/url] Although as mario said, they were "subject to confirmation" this time last year as well (as were Marussia). It could be meaningless, but then again...

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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by Shizuka »

watka wrote:Marciello has snapped up the Sauber 3rd driver position: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/30642322

I wonder if he was ever a consideration for a Marussia seat when it looked like they'd be around for 2015. This move certainly gives indications that they think Marciello is ready.


Smart move from Ferrari. This puts pressure on both Nasr and Ericsson, because he might step in for 2016. I think Marciello was planned to be Marussia's second driver next to Chilton, because I doubt Jules would have been there for a third year.

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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by Backmarker »

Shizuka wrote:
watka wrote:Marciello has snapped up the Sauber 3rd driver position: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/30642322

I wonder if he was ever a consideration for a Marussia seat when it looked like they'd be around for 2015. This move certainly gives indications that they think Marciello is ready.


Smart move from Ferrari. This puts pressure on both Nasr and Ericsson, because he might step in for 2016. I think Marciello was planned to be Marussia's second driver next to Chilton, because I doubt Jules would have been there for a third year.


And Raffaele Marciello does actually have some (possibly modest) sponsorship behind him to help him in to a race seat.

I think the hope was that Bianchi would either take a reserve role at Ferrari (like Gutierrez and Vergne will this season), or a race seat at Sauber, with Marciello replacing him, if Marussia were still around. A great shame it won't happen, because I felt he had made great improvement in only two seasons of F1 and it would have been interesting to see him in more competitive machinery, which the Sauber at least supposedly is.
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by mario »

On a different note, the FIA have now been forced to concede that Ferrari and Renault have spotted a gap in the regulations over the homologation date for their 2015 spec engines which will allow them to homologate their engines during, rather than before, the opening race of the season.

Basically, the loophole has come about because the FIA had assumed that the teams would homologate their engines before the first race of the season, and therefore a homologation date has not actually been specified in the regulations. The FIA has therefore accepted that the teams can use their development tokens during the season to upgrade the engines, so long as they do not breach the overall limit of 32 tokens for engine development.

However, and this might explain why Boullier was pushing for a relaxation of the regulations, whilst Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault are allowed to introduce engine upgrades during the season because they had already homologated their engines back in 2014, Honda, as a new manufacturer, cannot introduce upgrades as they have to homologate their engine by the 28th Feb. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117259
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

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mario wrote:On a different note, the FIA have now been forced to concede that Ferrari and Renault have spotted a gap in the regulations over the homologation date for their 2015 spec engines which will allow them to homologate their engines during, rather than before, the opening race of the season.

Basically, the loophole has come about because the FIA had assumed that the teams would homologate their engines before the first race of the season, and therefore a homologation date has not actually been specified in the regulations. The FIA has therefore accepted that the teams can use their development tokens during the season to upgrade the engines, so long as they do not breach the overall limit of 32 tokens for engine development.

However, and this might explain why Boullier was pushing for a relaxation of the regulations, whilst Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault are allowed to introduce engine upgrades during the season because they had already homologated their engines back in 2014, Honda, as a new manufacturer, cannot introduce upgrades as they have to homologate their engine by the 28th Feb. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117259


Well McLaren is in deeper shite now.
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by mario »

F1000X wrote:
mario wrote:On a different note, the FIA have now been forced to concede that Ferrari and Renault have spotted a gap in the regulations over the homologation date for their 2015 spec engines which will allow them to homologate their engines during, rather than before, the opening race of the season.

Basically, the loophole has come about because the FIA had assumed that the teams would homologate their engines before the first race of the season, and therefore a homologation date has not actually been specified in the regulations. The FIA has therefore accepted that the teams can use their development tokens during the season to upgrade the engines, so long as they do not breach the overall limit of 32 tokens for engine development.

However, and this might explain why Boullier was pushing for a relaxation of the regulations, whilst Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault are allowed to introduce engine upgrades during the season because they had already homologated their engines back in 2014, Honda, as a new manufacturer, cannot introduce upgrades as they have to homologate their engine by the 28th Feb. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117259


Well McLaren is in deeper shite now.

It depends on how good a job Honda has done so far on their engines, because we have been hearing very different opinions from different directions - some sources have been keen to talk up the engine by claiming that Honda's engine is already ahead of the Renault and Ferrari power units, but not as strong as Mercedes are, whilst others have suggested that the engine is overweight and suffers from high fuel consumption.
The only thing that both sides have indicated is an issue is systems integration - we saw how Renault, for example, struggled to get their hybrid systems working smoothly in conjunction with their engine (remember Kamui complaining that the Renault engine had problems with inconsistent behaviour when on partial throttle in early testing), and Honda seem to be suffering from similar issues now. However, we saw that Renault were able to introduce changes to the software controlling the flow of energy to and from their MGU-H during the year that helped solve those issues; I believe that software changes might not come under the development restrictions, so Honda may have a few areas where they can still develop some parts of their powertrain during the season, even if it far more limited than their rivals.

Mind you, if we are honest, McLaren's biggest problems have tended to be internal, and mostly centred around their chassis department, rather than engine related. The restrictions will certainly not help Honda or McLaren, but on the other hand we saw that McLaren struggled this year even though they had Mercedes's engine, and it has been their chassis design team that McLaren have been pouring more resources into recently.
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

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Honda won't be at much of a disadvantage. Whatever disadvantage they have will not be remedied quickly. It will take time to gather data on the performance of the engine. That data needs to be turned into useful information, and only then can solutions be developed. Remember when it became apparent that Renault were in trouble last year? They admitted that they would not be able to turn their season around until the British Grand Prix at the earliest. Honda will face a similar predicament. Mercedes, Renault and Ferrari, on the other hand, all have what Honda do not - a year's worth of primary data to work with.

I suspect that the FIA will do what they have done with Korea and engineer a loophole for Honda. Ferrari and Renault have scored a major coup by getting this concession, but so long as the FIA try to force the homologation of the Honda engine, it presents a major barrier to entry for new manufacturers who will see it as being forced to run a fixed engine while everyone else gets a concession. But at the same time, they won't be able to recant and let Honda develop away, because that will just put power in the hands of the manufacturers - and given that the Strategy Working Group reportedly rejected a plan to save £20 million per year without any discernible change in performance, that's a scenario the FIA will be keen to avoid.

Given that it will be at least six months before Honda can make any meaningful changes to their engines, I suspect the FIA will let this run its course, closing the loophole for 2016 and discreetly give Honda some leeway and/or limit the ability of Renault and Ferrari to develop their engines in 2016 (by which point the engines should already be very good).
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

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Captain Hammer wrote:Honda won't be at much of a disadvantage. Whatever disadvantage they have will not be remedied quickly. It will take time to gather data on the performance of the engine. That data needs to be turned into useful information, and only then can solutions be developed. Remember when it became apparent that Renault were in trouble last year? They admitted that they would not be able to turn their season around until the British Grand Prix at the earliest. Honda will face a similar predicament. Mercedes, Renault and Ferrari, on the other hand, all have what Honda do not - a year's worth of primary data to work with.

I suspect that the FIA will do what they have done with Korea and engineer a loophole for Honda. Ferrari and Renault have scored a major coup by getting this concession, but so long as the FIA try to force the homologation of the Honda engine, it presents a major barrier to entry for new manufacturers who will see it as being forced to run a fixed engine while everyone else gets a concession. But at the same time, they won't be able to recant and let Honda develop away, because that will just put power in the hands of the manufacturers - and given that the Strategy Working Group reportedly rejected a plan to save £20 million per year without any discernible change in performance, that's a scenario the FIA will be keen to avoid.

Given that it will be at least six months before Honda can make any meaningful changes to their engines, I suspect the FIA will let this run its course, closing the loophole for 2016 and discreetly give Honda some leeway and/or limit the ability of Renault and Ferrari to develop their engines in 2016 (by which point the engines should already be very good).

Well, James Allen makes a couple of points that suggests, in some ways, it is a double edged sword for Ferrari and Renault if they do not homologate their engines immediately.

Some parties suspect Mercedes are planning on bringing their 2015 spec units for the first race, whereas Ferrari and Renault may compete with the 2014 spec engines instead. Even if Mercedes have found only, say, 10-20bhp, any additional performance they might have unlocked will only increase their existing performance advantage over their rivals: in essence, Ferrari and Renault would be having to gamble that any additional performance they can unlock by extending their development programs later into the season will be enough to overcome any potential deficit in terms of performance and points which they might accrue in the opening races.

It has been plausibly suggested that, if Ferrari and Renault did push back introduction of their 2015 engines, it probably wouldn't be any later than the Spanish GP, in part because it would be logistically easier than trying to introduce a new engine at a flyaway round and in part because the Spanish GP tends to be where the first major upgrade packages are introduced, given that Barcelona is such a well known venue for the teams that they can more easily benchmark the performance of their components. If so, that may give them a couple of months more R&D time, but whether that will be enough to make any serious headway into Mercedes's potential performance advantage is debatable.

Furthermore, there is also the catch that, if the 2014 and 2015 engines are structurally different (for example, if the position of some of the ancillary units like the oil pump were to change), that could cause a few issues with the design and packaging of the 2015 spec chassis. It'll be interesting to see if the teams can adapt to such an issue, not to mention whether some teams might regret delaying introduction of their new engines until later in the season.
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Engine Development Unfreeze

Post by johnston21 »

Honda/McLaren must be furious.

Edit: Apologies, just now seeing this is being discussed in the 2015 Silly Season thread.
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Re: Engine Development Unfreeze

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johnston21 wrote:Edit: Apologies, just now seeing this is being discussed in the 2015 Silly Season thread.

You still got plenty of views, though.
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Re: Engine Development Unfreeze

Post by Bobby Doorknobs »

CoopsII wrote:
johnston21 wrote:Edit: Apologies, just now seeing this is being discussed in the 2015 Silly Season thread.

You still got plenty of views, though.

I reckon it was a publicity stunt. :P
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by razta »

Mercedes are set to give the new W06 more "BLING"... yes that's right, according to rumors.. "Chrome" arrows, as opposed to silver arrows, and OZ Racing will supply the rims, not Advanti.. and they'll also be given the chrome paint job.

And Mclaren are set to go "Honda" on their paint job..
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merce ... t/?v=2&s=1
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by dr-baker »

razta wrote:And Mclaren are set to go "Honda" on their paint job..
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merce ... t/?v=2&s=1

I always associate Honda touring cars with red-and-white paint schemes, as I also do with McLaren...

Image
Image
Image
Image
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by razta »

yeah those are honda's racing colors.. Red and White
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

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razta wrote:yeah those are honda's racing colors.. Red and White

Just like McLaren's colours of the 1980s and early 1990s! Just like McLaren-Honda in 1988! How could they not adopt those colours for 2015?!?!?!
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

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dr-baker wrote:
razta wrote:yeah those are honda's racing colors.. Red and White

Just like McLaren's colours of the 1980s and early 1990s! Just like McLaren-Honda in 1988! How could they not adopt those colours for 2015?!?!?!

I guess that there would be the slightly awkward fact that the liveries from the 1980's and 1990's were not associated with Honda, but with Marlboro.

Thinking about it, it raises one interesting question - who potentially retains the rights to that livery? Might it cause a bit of friction with Marlboro given the fact that they are partners with Ferrari, but the colour scheme could potentially be associated with Marlboro?
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by AndreaModa »

I'd imagine Marlboro would be delighted if McLaren went with red and white. It would effectively be a bit of free advertising, in the same way the black and gold of Lotus is for JPS.
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by dr-baker »

mario wrote:
dr-baker wrote:
razta wrote:yeah those are honda's racing colors.. Red and White

Just like McLaren's colours of the 1980s and early 1990s! Just like McLaren-Honda in 1988! How could they not adopt those colours for 2015?!?!?!

I guess that there would be the slightly awkward fact that the liveries from the 1980's and 1990's were not associated with Honda, but with Marlboro.

Thinking about it, it raises one interesting question - who potentially retains the rights to that livery? Might it cause a bit of friction with Marlboro given the fact that they are partners with Ferrari, but the colour scheme could potentially be associated with Marlboro?

If the red-and-white livery is closer to that of the touring cars that I posted above, then that would be different enough for Marlboro to not be invoked? And it equally would not be reminiscent of Toyota's liveries.
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by Klon »

mario wrote:Thinking about it, it raises one interesting question - who potentially retains the rights to that livery? Might it cause a bit of friction with Marlboro given the fact that they are partners with Ferrari, but the colour scheme could potentially be associated with Marlboro?


Well, that would require the concept of liveries being something you actually something you can establish copyright over. I guess it would be possible, but I have never even heard of a lawsuit for copyright violations ever been undertaken, even in clear-cut cases (see: Lotus' post 2012 livery). Secondly, with how castrated Marlboro's support of Ferrari was by the self-righteous vermin of today, I guess Philip Morris would be more than happy to see McLaren go back to the famous colours, because even if they don't sponsor it directly, the association is still present, because anyone not desperately looking to avoid said association in aforementioned self-righteousness realises and knows that for McLaren, white and red are Marlboro's colours and nothing else.
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by Captain Hammer »

dr-baker wrote:Just like McLaren's colours of the 1980s and early 1990s! Just like McLaren-Honda in 1988! How could they not adopt those colours for 2015?!?!?!

Tobacco advertising laws would get in the way. When Craig Lowndes raced a Peter Brock tribute livery at Bathurst a few years ago, they had to invert the design to avoid imitating the Malboto livery. Lotus got away with it because JPS are largely defunct and their livery has steadily drifted away from the original design.

Besides, do McLaren want to be associated with Malboro anymore? The name and likeness might be on the historic models on display in the MTC, but that doesn't mean that they want the name out on the circuit. Likewise, do Malboro want to be associated with McLaren anymore?

The idea that McLaren will return to the Malboro livery is nothing more than a fanboy pipedream based on the intangible concept of it being "iconic" or "heritage", neither of which actually satisfy the needs of the team.
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by FMecha »

The linked article also hints possibility of an orange Macca. ;)
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by Captain Hammer »

As Keith Collantine pointed out on Twitter, the traditional Formula 1 fan's New Years' celebrations are to:

1) Sing Auld Lyne Sang
2) Nurse a hangover
3) Read stories about McLaren changing their livery

Although I can see the rationale in this case - Honda have traditionally run white and red livery in the past, and would be keen to avoid clashing with Mercedes, especially if Mercedes are changing their livery to chrome.

If true, then I imagine that they might go for something similar to their 2014 livery, with white in the place of the silver and red replacing black. There was some fine detail in the transition from black to silver, so I imagine that might be highlighted with McLaren orange.
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by mario »

Captain Hammer wrote:
dr-baker wrote:Just like McLaren's colours of the 1980s and early 1990s! Just like McLaren-Honda in 1988! How could they not adopt those colours for 2015?!?!?!

Tobacco advertising laws would get in the way. When Craig Lowndes raced a Peter Brock tribute livery at Bathurst a few years ago, they had to invert the design to avoid imitating the Malboto livery. Lotus got away with it because JPS are largely defunct and their livery has steadily drifted away from the original design.

Besides, do McLaren want to be associated with Malboro anymore? The name and likeness might be on the historic models on display in the MTC, but that doesn't mean that they want the name out on the circuit. Likewise, do Malboro want to be associated with McLaren anymore?

The idea that McLaren will return to the Malboro livery is nothing more than a fanboy pipedream based on the intangible concept of it being "iconic" or "heritage", neither of which actually satisfy the needs of the team.

I think that some of the cars on display in the MTC have actually had the Marlboro name removed from their liveries, so even the historic models have had their associations with Marlboro watered down. As for the Lotus-JPS colour scheme, at the time there were some complaints in some quarters, particularly in Canada, because in some parts of Europe JPS did piggyback on the back of Lotus reviving the colour scheme to publicise their products.

On another note, the BBC is now running a story claiming that McLaren, on behalf of Honda, have formally complained to the FIA about the recent ruling on engine development during the season which cuts Honda out. It looks like, as you've said before, the FIA will probably have to find some way to accommodate Honda's complaints. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/30685450
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by watka »

I can hear the groans of all the people happy to see the back of the McLaren chrome livery who will now have to put up with it on the Mercedes. I personally don't dislike chrome but thought Mercedes had a good thing going on with the silver livery (I particularly liked the matt silver they had when Schumi was at the team).

As for McLaren's livery, am I right in saying that everyone has forgotten that Honda had an F1 team? :lol: Funny to see a post of Honda touring car liveries rather than this:
Image

One for the "most anonymous F1 stints" thread I think!

Edit: OK, so that's a BAR rather than a Honda, but I couldn't find a Honda picture small enough for the forum. Which says something about Honda F1!
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by FMecha »

I read in another thread here the reason why the Marlboro logos in the old McLarens at MTC was removed was due to pressure from West (the rival cigarette brand that sponsored McLaren in 1997-2005, causing someone to get angry about it, but I forget who :?), rather than tobacco laws.
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by dr-baker »

watka wrote:I couldn't find a Honda picture small enough for the forum. Which says something about Honda F1!

How about this, then?

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;)
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Bobby Doorknobs
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by Bobby Doorknobs »

What if Honda wanted McLaren to bring this back? :P
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#FreeGonzo
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good_Ralf
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by good_Ralf »

Simtek wrote:What if Honda wanted McLaren to bring this back? :P

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Fixed.
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Dj_bereta
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by Dj_bereta »

... and replace Alonso with Barrichello.

Yes, I like this.
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Nessafox
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by Nessafox »

I'd rather have Honda use Super Agurish liveries! :D
I don't know what i want and i want it now!
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f1andrea
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by f1andrea »

good_Ralf wrote:
Simtek wrote:What if Honda wanted McLaren to bring this back? :P

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Fixed.


Someone knows where this car is exposed? I've put my name on it, but I've never received nothing about it :(
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Bobby Doorknobs
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by Bobby Doorknobs »

Shocking news: Korea dropped from 2015 calendar!

The whole forum looks at me with a "we don't care" look, and immediately they go back to what they were doing.
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RonDenisDeletraz
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Re: 2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by RonDenisDeletraz »

Simtek wrote:Shocking news: Korea dropped from 2015 calendar!

The whole forum looks at me with a "we don't care" look, and immediately they go back to what they were doing.


Absolutely stunned, never did I even vaguely imagine this would happen :P
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