2015 Silly Season Thread

[Londoner]

Talk then turned to other subjects, including his fear that Mercedes will walk away with the championship again for another two years, and his plan to rectify it by forcing through a change to a new engine – perhaps a normally-aspirated V10, with as much as 1,000 horsepower – at a meeting of the all-powerful Strategy Group next week. Put to him both that this would cost even more money, and alienate big manufacturers such as Mercedes, he (Bernie) amusingly responded: “We probably shouldn’t ask Mercedes.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/11289026/Life-after-Bernie-Ecclestone-How-F1-supremo-is-scheming-to-bring-in-first-lady-of-F1.html

Funnily enough, we didn't get this amount of whinging about domination when Ferrari and Red Bull were cleaning up the titles. Why's it so outrageous that Mercedes are doing the same?

[DemocalypseNow]

Talk then turned to other subjects, including his fear that Mercedes will walk away with the championship again for another two years, and his plan to rectify it by forcing through a change to a new engine – perhaps a normally-aspirated V10, with as much as 1,000 horsepower – at a meeting of the all-powerful Strategy Group next week. Put to him both that this would cost even more money, and alienate big manufacturers such as Mercedes, he (Bernie) amusingly responded: “We probably shouldn’t ask Mercedes.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/11289026/Life-after-Bernie-Ecclestone-How-F1-supremo-is-scheming-to-bring-in-first-lady-of-F1.html

Funnily enough, we didn't get this amount of whinging about domination when Ferrari and Red Bull were cleaning up the titles. Why's it so outrageous that Mercedes are doing the same?

Yes, we did. It's just you were in diapers when it happened and thus too young to experience the expletive-laden frustration of the viewers when Schumacher was cleaning house!

And as for people not whining about Red Bull? Have you been living under a rock? Have you been on an internet-sabbatical for the last four years?

[Collieafc]

I like what McLaren did. Here's why: they have two experienced, good drivers, who can develop the Honda engine. It may be even better if the Honda engine is capable of at least beeing better than the Renault and Ferrari engines. Then, after 1-2 years period, when both Button and Alonso retire, they'll have two incredibly talented drivers in K-Mag and Vandoorne to step up into the car and be competitive off the bath.

Good in theory, but that's assuming K-Mag and Stoffel don't get impatient and look for a drive elsewhere...

That wouldn't be wise from their part. Realistically, McLaren is the best drive they have available to them in years to come. Mercedes have Rosberg and Hamilton locked for more years than an Alonso - Button pairing. To drive a Red Bull you have to belong to Red Bull as a young driver. Williams are perfectly happy with their pairing and if Massa retired or Bottas went to other pastures (say Ferrari) they look set to go and grab Nasr, who, by then, will have decent experience time from Sauber. As for Ferrari, they have Vettel and Raikkonen although that Kimi's seat might be available soon. Still, it is well known that Ferrari don't put inexperienced drivers on their cars. As for lower grid cars, ask Hulkenberg how many years it is taking him to climb up to a front of the grid drive. The last one doing it was his team-mate (to McLaren no less) and things didn't end well. All in all it is unlikely that they can find a better career path than to wait a couple of years for a drive. Also, unless third cars come into play, it will be difficult to find teams willing to let McLaren put a driver of their own into one of their seats.

It's also highlighting how there just isnt a midfield like the days of old to park such drivers at for a year or two to see if they come good. Would we have had the likes of say Barrichello come through to eventually get a top seat nowadays? I doubt it, as right now it seems you either have to be in a top seat already, sponsored by a driver program, or sitting on a pile of cash to get a seat. Theres just no midfield for good but not great drivers - arguably the midfield right now is solely Force India (and Hulkenburg has been rooted there since forever). Williams are moving up the grid, while Sauber and Lotus falling down.

[AndreaModa]

It's also highlighting how there just isnt a midfield like the days of old to park such drivers at for a year or two to see if they come good. Would we have had the likes of say Barrichello come through to eventually get a top seat nowadays? I doubt it, as right now it seems you either have to be in a top seat already, sponsored by a driver program, or sitting on a pile of cash to get a seat. Theres just no midfield for good but not great drivers - arguably the midfield right now is solely Force India (and Hulkenburg has been rooted there since forever). Williams are moving up the grid, while Sauber and Lotus falling down.

Barrichello was heavily backed by Arisco, Pepsi and a host of other Brazilian companies when he signed for Jordan. Yes he was talented, but he also brought money. It's a shame that people think that back in the "good old days" you didn't need money to get a crack at F1. There have been very few drivers down the years that have gone on and done well with nothing but goodwill and driving ability alone. That first step is almost always made easier by a bit of cash lying around.

[Bobby Doorknobs]

It's also highlighting how there just isnt a midfield like the days of old to park such drivers at for a year or two to see if they come good. Would we have had the likes of say Barrichello come through to eventually get a top seat nowadays? I doubt it, as right now it seems you either have to be in a top seat already, sponsored by a driver program, or sitting on a pile of cash to get a seat. Theres just no midfield for good but not great drivers - arguably the midfield right now is solely Force India (and Hulkenburg has been rooted there since forever). Williams are moving up the grid, while Sauber and Lotus falling down.

Barrichello was heavily backed by Arisco, Pepsi and a host of other Brazilian companies when he signed for Jordan. Yes he was talented, but he also brought money. It's a shame that people think that back in the "good old days" you didn't need money to get a crack at F1. There have been very few drivers down the years that have gone on and done well with nothing but goodwill and driving ability alone. That first step is almost always made easier by a bit of cash lying around.

Niki Lauda basically bought himself his March drive back in '71. Hell, even before that and going back to the early days of motor racing itself you had drivers buying a car from a manufacturer, entering it into a race and hoping for the best. It's not much different to the present day, except that now the FIA don't just give out superlicences to anyone who sat in the cockpit of a single seater, they expect some standard of driving ability. Hence the fact that it's been ages (too long!) since there were drivers like Ide and Délétraz who just seemed so out of their depth.

[tommykl]

It's also highlighting how there just isnt a midfield like the days of old to park such drivers at for a year or two to see if they come good. Would we have had the likes of say Barrichello come through to eventually get a top seat nowadays? I doubt it, as right now it seems you either have to be in a top seat already, sponsored by a driver program, or sitting on a pile of cash to get a seat. Theres just no midfield for good but not great drivers - arguably the midfield right now is solely Force India (and Hulkenburg has been rooted there since forever). Williams are moving up the grid, while Sauber and Lotus falling down.

Barrichello was heavily backed by Arisco, Pepsi and a host of other Brazilian companies when he signed for Jordan. Yes he was talented, but he also brought money. It's a shame that people think that back in the "good old days" you didn't need money to get a crack at F1. There have been very few drivers down the years that have gone on and done well with nothing but goodwill and driving ability alone. That first step is almost always made easier by a bit of cash lying around.

Niki Lauda basically bought himself his March drive back in '71. Hell, even before that and going back to the early days of motor racing itself you had drivers buying a car from a manufacturer, entering it into a race and hoping for the best. It's not much different to the present day, except that now the FIA don't just give out superlicences to anyone who sat in the cockpit of a single seater, they expect some standard of driving ability. Hence the fact that it's been ages (too long!) since there were drivers like Ide and Délétraz who just seemed so out of their depth.

Ah, yes. He basically got a bank loan and went to March saying "Yes, this is totally sponsorship money!"

[go_Rubens]

After reading the Formula 1 website's interview with Jenson Button, it seems Jenson is indicating a multi year deal is in place. He is insisting something along the lines of, "This kind of a project is not something for one year only."

[Captain Hammer]

He's not indicating.

He has said it outright.

[Dj_bereta]

I read somewhere Boullier said Magnussen has "high chances" of getting a race seat in other team for 2016 season. In other words, McLaren seats are locked, at least, until the 2017 season. This is bad for Vandoorne too.

Also, he said there are possibilities of Honda supply engines for another team in 2016 season and onwards. Nothing confirmed, only "possibilities".

[Salamander]

I read somewhere Boullier said Magnussen have "high chances" of getting a race seat in other team for 2016 season. In other words, McLaren seats are locked, at least, until the 2017 season. This is bad for Vandoorne too.

Also, he said there are possibilities of Honda supply engines for another team in 2016 season and onwards. Nothing confirmed, only "possibilities".

Well, Button did say he has a multi-year contract.

[watka]

My understanding is Button's contract is a one year contract with an option to extend by another year. Who controls this option though, I don't know.

[CoopsII]

My understanding is Button's contract is a one year contract with an option to extend by another year. Who controls this option though, I don't know.

Jesus?

[dr-baker]

My understanding is Button's contract is a one year contract with an option to extend by another year. Who controls this option though, I don't know.

Jesus?

Of course it is. But will he want the option to be taken up? That I could not tell you!

[Salamander]

[Londoner]

That is a strange decision indeed, unless Ferrari are preparing for life without Philip Morris money. The current contract runs out at the end of 2015, so maybe this is a ploy to get Carlos Slim on board for 2016 onwards.

I wonder though, who will replace Kimi after next season, because it cannot be Guti, surely not. Could Sergio Perez resume his ties with Ferrari?

[Salamander]

I wonder though, who will replace Kimi after next season, because it cannot be Guti, surely not. Could Sergio Perez resume his ties with Ferrari?

Grosjean or Hulkenberg would be my bets. Both are quick but probably not enough to challenge Vettel.

[DanielPT]

That is a strange decision indeed, unless Ferrari are preparing for life without Philip Morris money. The current contract runs out at the end of 2015, so maybe this is a ploy to get Carlos Slim on board for 2016 onwards.

I wonder though, who will replace Kimi after next season, because it cannot be Guti, surely not. Could Sergio Perez resume his ties with Ferrari?

Well, before jumping on money based decision which would mean F1 is even in a worse shape than I think it is, let's think a bit about it. Ferrari probably wanted a driver with F1 racing and development experience on the latest cars who they could chose? Sutil? Not enough good reputation. Kobayashi? After he dumped them last year no way. Ericsson and Chilton were probably snubbed and Vergne is looking at other series. Gutierrez^2 was maybe the best suited driver to what Ferrari wanted. Of course, he is facing eternal service at testing duties much like Gene, De la Rosa or Badoer.

[CoopsII]

Smart move. That's the 2017 drivers title practically on it's way to Mexico already.

[mario]

That is a strange decision indeed, unless Ferrari are preparing for life without Philip Morris money. The current contract runs out at the end of 2015, so maybe this is a ploy to get Carlos Slim on board for 2016 onwards.

I wonder though, who will replace Kimi after next season, because it cannot be Guti, surely not. Could Sergio Perez resume his ties with Ferrari?

Well, before jumping on money based decision which would mean F1 is even in a worse shape than I think it is, let's think a bit about it. Ferrari probably wanted a driver with F1 racing and development experience on the latest cars who they could chose? Sutil? Not enough good reputation. Kobayashi? After he dumped them last year no way. Ericsson and Chilton were probably snubbed and Vergne is looking at other series. Gutierrez^2 was maybe the best suited driver to what Ferrari wanted. Of course, he is facing eternal service at testing duties much like Gene, De la Rosa or Badoer.

It would be a pretty astounding situation if Ferrari - a team that reportedly gets the biggest cut of FOM's revenue and has the brand with the highest value in F1 - was adopting pay drivers, and a sign that the sport is in very deep trouble.

Whilst I agree that it could also be that Ferrari are just looking for a new test driver with a reasonable amount of experience, the decision still makes fairly poor sense from that point of view. Gutierrez is not an especially experienced driver (Gene had spent several years as Williams's test driver before moving to Ferrari and both de la Rosa and Badoer have their fair share of races between them), and I believe that he is held in fairly low regard for his feedback skills, so I am not sure what value he could really add there.

If Ferrari wanted an experienced driver who could act as a test driver and provide them with good feedback, I can think of a number of other drivers who could fit that role quite well. Heidfeld, for example, could feasibly work for them for a few years and was generally considered a pretty solid development driver when he competed: alternatively, if they wanted a younger driver, Kovalainen is on the market and has decent experience at both racing and testing, and I'd imagine that somebody like Glock could also make a case.

Alternatively, if Ferrari wanted to be brave and to use the test driver role as an opportunity to bed in a new recruit, as they did with Bianchi (before he was seconded to Marussia), they could give Marciello the seat as part of his preparations for a second season in GP2. Alternatively, they could also look further down the line at a figure like Fuoco and give him an opportunity within the team as well, or could have reached out to somebody like Frijns via Sauber.

All in all, I can't help but feel that there probably has been some financial incentive for Ferrari to take him on - as East Londoner points out, Philip Morris's deal with Ferrari ends in 2015, and it may yet be that they decide to cut their ties given that their association with Ferrari is becoming ever more tenuous.

As for who might drive for Ferrari when Kimi leaves, I think that part of Ferrari's problem is that they haven't worked that out yet. Their long term plans were probably based around Bianchi - some of their moves have suggested that was one course of action they were following - so his accident earlier this year must have wrecked their plans, much as Kubica's accident a few years ago meant that their considerations of replacing Massa with him soon evaporated.
At the moment, I would imagine that the major restructuring that Ferrari is going through means that their focus is more on their technical department rather than their driver line up right now, to the point where it could be that they still haven't made any real long term plans for replacing Kimi for the future.

[Backmarker]

That is a strange decision indeed, unless Ferrari are preparing for life without Philip Morris money. The current contract runs out at the end of 2015, so maybe this is a ploy to get Carlos Slim on board for 2016 onwards.

I wonder though, who will replace Kimi after next season, because it cannot be Guti, surely not. Could Sergio Perez resume his ties with Ferrari?

I would think that Maurizio Arrivabene should be able to get Philip Morris to extend their sponsorship, but it doesn't hurt to have other sponsorship revenues, I suppose.

[girry]

There's always a Hülkenberg to sign for Ferrari, should all other options fail.

[Shizuka]

All in all, I can't help but feel that there probably has been some financial incentive for Ferrari to take him on - as East Londoner points out, Philip Morris's deal with Ferrari ends in 2015, and it may yet be that they decide to cut their ties given that their association with Ferrari is becoming ever more tenuous.

Has to be money taking part in this decision - they finished only fourth in the WCC, which hasn't happened since 2009. (And without Alonso, they might have been battling with McLaren, especially given Button's late season surge)

[AndreaModa]

All in all, I can't help but feel that there probably has been some financial incentive for Ferrari to take him on - as East Londoner points out, Philip Morris's deal with Ferrari ends in 2015, and it may yet be that they decide to cut their ties given that their association with Ferrari is becoming ever more tenuous.

Has to be money taking part in this decision - they finished only fourth in the WCC, which hasn't happened since 2009. (And without Alonso, they might have been battling with McLaren, especially given Button's late season surge)

And yet despite finishing fourth, they still took home more than Williams and Red Bull because of the retarded clusterf*ck that is the current post-season payment system.

[BigG80]

If Ferrari wanted an experienced driver who could act as a test driver and provide them with good feedback, I can think of a number of other drivers who could fit that role quite well. Heidfeld, for example, could feasibly work for them for a few years and was generally considered a pretty solid development driver when he competed: alternatively, if they wanted a younger driver, Kovalainen is on the market and has decent experience at both racing and testing, and I'd imagine that somebody like Glock could also make a case.

Heidfeld hasn't been in F1 for too long to make him a viable option. He has no experience of the current engine and I should think the aero and tyres have moved on sufficiently for his feedback to be slightly meaningless. Likewise with Glock who also seems rather happy in DTM judging from my facebook feed although I struggle with more than just a few German words.

As for Kovalainen, I would think his two outings at the tail end of 2013 were too damaging for his credibility and it would look very peculiar if Ferrari were seen to be taking him.

Guti might be a slowish driver but he has just spent a year driving a current Ferrari powered car. The only other available driver that fits the bill is Chilton and I don't see him as a "fit" at Ferrari somehow. Plus Guti's backing must be significantly bigger and having more money just makes sense in F1.

[Londoner]

In other news, Robin Frijns's Caterham contract expired today, with his career approximately 99.97% dead. He must be kicking himself for turning down that Red Bull Junior spot, which he did TWICE. He's basically got no options other than to fish for a Formula E drive, or try and get a GT seat in WEC.

[Dj_bereta]

Ferrari won't hire a test driver to be a racing driver in the future (see Badoer, Gene, Fisichella and Kobayashi). So, I think the chances of Gutierrez getting a Ferrari seat in the future are very slim and if this happens, I don't think he is going to do a bad job.

[Nessafox]

Ferrari won't hire a test driver to be a racing driver in the future (see Badoer, Gene, Fisichella and Kobayashi). So, I think the chances of Gutierrez getting a Ferrari seat in the future are very slim and if this happens, I don't think he is going to do a bad job.

I see what you unintentionally did there!

[roblo97]

In other news, Robin Frijns's Caterham contract expired today, with his career approximately 99.97% dead. He must be kicking himself for turning down that Red Bull Junior spot, which he did TWICE. He's basically got no options other than to fish for a Formula E drive, or try and get a GT seat in WEC.

It is sad that his time in F1 has ended this way but I think he may fish arround for the Formula E seat or possibly a drive for Nissan or Porsche at Le Mans.

[mario]

If Ferrari wanted an experienced driver who could act as a test driver and provide them with good feedback, I can think of a number of other drivers who could fit that role quite well. Heidfeld, for example, could feasibly work for them for a few years and was generally considered a pretty solid development driver when he competed: alternatively, if they wanted a younger driver, Kovalainen is on the market and has decent experience at both racing and testing, and I'd imagine that somebody like Glock could also make a case.

Heidfeld hasn't been in F1 for too long to make him a viable option. He has no experience of the current engine and I should think the aero and tyres have moved on sufficiently for his feedback to be slightly meaningless. Likewise with Glock who also seems rather happy in DTM judging from my facebook feed although I struggle with more than just a few German words.

As for Kovalainen, I would think his two outings at the tail end of 2013 were too damaging for his credibility and it would look very peculiar if Ferrari were seen to be taking him.

Guti might be a slowish driver but he has just spent a year driving a current Ferrari powered car. The only other available driver that fits the bill is Chilton and I don't see him as a "fit" at Ferrari somehow. Plus Guti's backing must be significantly bigger and having more money just makes sense in F1.

Even though Glock and Heidfeld have been out of the sport for some time, personally I'd still rank their potential feedback above Gutierrez's given that Sauber reportedly didn't think much of his feedback (something you would assume Ferrari would be aware of given their links to Sauber). I'd agree that Heikki's poor form in 2013 seems to have been a bit of a career killer though.

In other news, Robin Frijns's Caterham contract expired today, with his career approximately 99.97% dead. He must be kicking himself for turning down that Red Bull Junior spot, which he did TWICE. He's basically got no options other than to fish for a Formula E drive, or try and get a GT seat in WEC.

It is sad that his time in F1 has ended this way but I think he may fish arround for the Formula E seat or possibly a drive for Nissan or Porsche at Le Mans.

I don't think it is just the fact that he turned Red Bull down, but the fact that he poured so much vitriol onto them in public when he scorned them, that hurt his chances with other teams. His other problem is that he is trying to force his way into the field when the number of teams is shrinking - thereby cutting off seats - and the few decent midfield teams, like Force India, already have a strong line up (I'd say that the Hulkenberg-Perez line up is a fairly solid partnership) and are unlikely to be willing to change that (not to mention that Force India already have candidates like Juncadella on their books). Further back, well, what else can he offer the teams? Lotus and Sauber are in need of cash - something he will be aware of - but Sauber already has Nasr, who has the benefit of having been trained up by Williams, coming to them, and Lotus has already locked their drivers in some time ago.

As you say, his best options at this point are probably to look for a seat with a factory WEC team, with Porsche and Nissan being the obvious candidates. Out of those, you would assume that the latter would perhaps give him a better opportunity for a season long campaign - I assume that Porsche's third car will only be for selected rounds (i.e. Le Mans, and possibly the sprint race at Spa), whereas Nissan will presumably be competing in every round.

[Miguel98]

It's weird, because I think that will be hard for anyone to grab a seat at Nissan's WEC team, with their drivers in JGTC (or Super GT, how ever it's called now), and they're Gran Turismo boys, like Mardenborough, Reip or the russian guy who's name I can't remember.

[Bobby Doorknobs]

It's weird, because I think that will be hard for anyone to grab a seat at Nissan's WEC team, with their drivers in JGTC (or Super GT, how ever it's called now), and they're Gran Turismo boys, like Mardenborough, Reip or the russian guy who's name I can't remember.

Mark Shulzhitskiy.

[AndreaModa]

Well would you look at that!

[Miguel98]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/12/16/ferrari-reshuffle-staff-confirm-fry-tombazis-departures-announce-mexican-sponsor/

And after the sponsor announcement, this happens.

[go_Rubens]

I don't mind Ferrari getting rid of Pat Fry (it was about time anyway), but signing Gutiérrez as a test driver is surely rather stupid?! I don't understand Arrivabene's decision here...

[Shizuka]

I don't understand Arrivabene's decision here...

The sponsorship deal pretty much confirms it was mainly for money.

[Captain Hammer]

And it makes sense for Slim to want to be associated with the team. They have far more commercial pulling power than Sauber do.

[DanielPT]

And it makes sense for Slim to want to be associated with the team. They have far more commercial pulling power than Sauber do.

I just hope that this sponsor "stealing" from Ferrari doesn't further financially cripple Sauber.

[Salamander]

And it makes sense for Slim to want to be associated with the team. They have far more commercial pulling power than Sauber do.

I just hope that this sponsor "stealing" from Ferrari doesn't further financially cripple Sauber.

They already planned to drop Gutierrez for Ericsson and Nasr, remember? I think they anticipated losing Slim's sponsorship.

[DanielPT]

And it makes sense for Slim to want to be associated with the team. They have far more commercial pulling power than Sauber do.

I just hope that this sponsor "stealing" from Ferrari doesn't further financially cripple Sauber.

They already planned to drop Gutierrez for Ericsson and Nasr, remember? I think they anticipated losing Slim's sponsorship.

They did, yes, but it could still cripple them. I am unsure about Ericsson money + Nasr and Banco do Brasil equalling Slim's sponsorship. But I might be wrong. I know that it would be unlikely for Sauber to let them go if that was the case but it also might be that Slim and Telmex wanted more TV time elsewhere.

[Backmarker]

I just hope that this sponsor "stealing" from Ferrari doesn't further financially cripple Sauber.

They already planned to drop Gutierrez for Ericsson and Nasr, remember? I think they anticipated losing Slim's sponsorship.

They did, yes, but it could still cripple them. I am unsure about Ericsson money + Nasr and Banco do Brasil equalling Slim's sponsorship. But I might be wrong. I know that it would be unlikely for Sauber to let them go if that was the case but it also might be that Slim and Telmex wanted more TV time elsewhere.

They've also lost Adrian Sutil's Medion (and other sponsors), so Ericsson and Nasr must be making up for that as well.