Unpopular F1 opinions

Post by **mario** » 13 Nov 2014, 21:44

Cynon wrote:
SgtPepper wrote:
This wrote:Unpopular opinion (at least on this forum): the 1975-style cars looked amazingly badass. Yeah sure, they're no beauties, but they really had something.

Agreed. They're interesting in a slightly mad way.

Those cars look like they started building it, looked at it, then said to each other; "Yep, that looks fast, I think." and then went on-track to find out if their hunches were correct.

That does seem to be the popular assumption, but quite a bit more thought and effort went into the cars than just that - telemetry was already creeping into the sport in the 1970's, whilst Ferrari, for example, used the CCTV cameras around their circuit to monitor the car in real time and then back calculated the cornering speeds.

Wind tunnels were already in reasonably routine use at the time, and in some ways the odd proportions of the cars were the result of various concepts being taken to logical extremes, such as the high airboxes putting the air intakes out of the way of the turbulent airflow around the cockpit area and aiming to enhance the ram air effects, the front wings being pushed lower and further away from the front wheels to move them away from the wake of the wheels and to utilise ground effects on the front wing, the radiators being pushed backwards towards the rear wheels, where they could use the fact that you could create a low pressure region in that area to improve airflow through the radiators - whilst there was a certain amount of experimentation and ignorance, it wasn't as if everybody was groping around in the dark for answers.

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 17 Nov 2014, 20:12

Abu Dhabi sunset race is actually nice way to end F1 season.

Not talking about circuit itself or double points happening in this year.

Julien · Post by **Julien** » 21 Nov 2014, 05:14

You're right that's unpopular. At least with me.

I don't like Abu Dhabi, not the slightest bit. The whole race can only happen because idiotic oil-billionaires couldn't find any other way to waste their money... Abu Dhabi is one of the places where F1 never should have ventured IMO.

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 04 Dec 2014, 18:01

I've probably mentioned this somewhere, but I'll say it again. The 2006-2008 cars (when they started sprouting all manner of fins/flaps and whatnot) looked beautiful. People complain about how messy and cluttered the cars looked, but for me there was something about that which screamed not only fast, but well, I suppose you could say aggressive and sexy in an odd way. Maybe it's just the fact that the cars resembled jets more than anything else that helped reinforce the idea that these weren't any ordinary machines you were looking at.

Could just be the fact that I grew up during the grooved era where the cars were always a bit more expressive in terms of design shall we say

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 04 Dec 2014, 21:51

I think you always consider the cars of the era you first became interested in F1 to be the golden standard of beauty. Thus I consider the cars of the early-to-mid 1990s to be the most attractive. "All the right curves in all the right places," as the recent chart hit states. A car you could run your hand along without a fear of catching it on a random corner.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 04 Dec 2014, 21:56

That Simtek is achingly beautiful. I've always preferred cars with an unusual (as opposed to typical whites, reds and silvers) paintjob and smooth lines to be the best. Cant upload any pictures on this phone but think Prost AP04 (2000), first Simtek, Jordan 191 and the 1991 Lambo as examples of simplicity and a catchy paintjob.
However, the aero-mad 2008 cars also stick out as somewhat 'beautiful'. The Honda was a favourite.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 04 Dec 2014, 22:33

I don't know if anyone remembers those Matchbox Formula one sets. Those were playable but also realistic toys, so that was a goo way to attach to the style of cars from that era.
A few examples:

(btw, if anyone has the Jordan and Lotus cars from these series, i'm looking for them!)

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 04 Dec 2014, 22:42

Those are nice models of beautiful cars. Sorry I can't help with completing your collection.

The only car with "flick-ups" that I found stunningly attractive was the Lola B05/52, aka the A1GP car for its first three series, thereafter used in Auto GP and Formula Acceleration 1.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 05 Dec 2014, 08:43

This wrote:I don't know if anyone remembers those Matchbox Formula one sets. Those were playable but also realistic toys, so that was a goo way to attach to the style of cars from that era.
(btw, if anyone has the Jordan and Lotus cars from these series, i'm looking for them!)

They were great and from about 1994 I think. Yes, I have the Jordan and the Lotus plus a Ferrari which differed in design slightly, its more Indycar in design. Also, the Williams I have was Mansells FW14. There was a Newman Haas Indycar set available but I never got round to picking that up and then they vanished.

Man, that annoys me now.

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 05 Dec 2014, 08:55

dr-baker wrote:I think you always consider the cars of the era you first became interested in F1 to be the golden standard of beauty. Thus I consider the cars of the early-to-mid 1990s to be the most attractive. "All the right curves in all the right places," as the recent chart hit states. A car you could run your hand along without a fear of catching it on a random corner.

It's funny because I never quite warmed up to the pre-raised nose cars. I always thought they looked sluggish and quite frankly rather ugly. My issue stems mostly from the abrupt drop on the nosecone (seen nicely in the first Simtek pic) and the 'humpish' look the car has from the cockpit onwards.

In fact now that I think of it, it probably is only the nose which I have an issue with! I always liked the Benettons from 92' onwards, and the Tyrrells from 90' and 91' (particuarly 91' with that beautiful black scheme). However I just could not accept a screwed up (in my opinion anyway) nosecone!

The Ferrari 461 for instance has a nose that reminds me of an ant-eater

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 05 Dec 2014, 09:34

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:It's funny because I never quite warmed up to the pre-raised nose cars. I always thought they looked sluggish and quite frankly rather ugly. My issue stems mostly from the abrupt drop on the nosecone (seen nicely in the first Simtek pic) and the 'humpish' look the car has from the cockpit onwards.

Thing is, I don't really see an 'abrupt' drop as you do, but gentle, swooping curves. Certainly, I see them as much more elegant and beautiful than current noses by a long way. However, that Ferrari 461 you showed a picture of? I agree that that is a bit of an unusual looking nose! Just looks a bit... flat from the cockpit to the front wing, unlike the Simtek, Williams and Ferrari I showed. The Ferrari 461 did not have "ALL the right curves in ALL the right places..."

roblo97 · Post by **roblo97** » 05 Dec 2014, 10:54

This is what I think is one of the better looking cars fro, that period.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 05 Dec 2014, 11:04

If we're playing that game, then here's an unpopular opinion for you. This is one of my favourite cars from the era:

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 05 Dec 2014, 13:26

CoopsII wrote:
This wrote:I don't know if anyone remembers those Matchbox Formula one sets. Those were playable but also realistic toys, so that was a goo way to attach to the style of cars from that era.
(btw, if anyone has the Jordan and Lotus cars from these series, i'm looking for them!)

They were great and from about 1994 I think. Yes, I have the Jordan and the Lotus plus a Ferrari which differed in design slightly, its more Indycar in design. Also, the Williams I have was Mansells FW14. There was a Newman Haas Indycar set available but I never got round to picking that up and then they vanished.

Man, that annoys me now.

There's been a 1993 series, including a Williams, Ferrari, Footwork, Sauber and possibly a Lotus, and a 1994 series, including a Williams, Ferrari, Arrows, Jordan and Lotus. I have the other 7. (And also have a 1994 Arrows transporter) There are indeed some other models in existence, but i'm only looking for these series. I think i bought most of them in the late nineties. My parents didn't car much about realism, so they gave me the Majorette F1 cars instead, those were very good to play with but not realistic. And when they were realistic, they were just wrong, for example i own one of Senna in a 1985 McLaren-Honda. So when i got old enough to understand these were fake, i insisted that i must have the Matchbox ones.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 05 Dec 2014, 14:29

dr-baker wrote:I think you always consider the cars of the era you first became interested in F1 to be the golden standard of beauty.

Not sure if i'd consider 2004 the golden standard of beauty, but they are definitely lookers, I can tell you that, other than the walrus-nose Williams of course.

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 05 Dec 2014, 15:24

You can't talk about the beauty of early-mid nineties F1 cars without mentioning this:

And you can't talk about the beauty of early-mid nineties F1 cars on F1 Rejects without mentioning this:

girry · Post by **girry** » 05 Dec 2014, 16:39

Started following in the late 90's-early noughties and that probably is my least favorite era of F1 - both aestethically and racing-wise. Was just about to come and post those lookers but Simtek was quicker with them. Perfect taste, sir.

Although, the Andrea Moda looked even sleeker with less sponsors!

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 05 Dec 2014, 17:01

giraurd wrote:Although, the Andrea Moda looked even sleeker with less sponsors!

That is a decent opinion. And I have always pictured in my mind the F1 Rejects logo across the engine cover, where the Industrie Brioche Marche (or whatever it says) logo currently is...

MorbidelliObese · Post by **MorbidelliObese** » 05 Dec 2014, 18:21

This wrote:I don't know if anyone remembers those Matchbox Formula one sets. Those were playable but also realistic toys, so that was a goo way to attach to the style of cars from that era.
A few examples:

(btw, if anyone has the Jordan and Lotus cars from these series, i'm looking for them!)

That's just brought a bunch of memories flooding back

I had those exact same three cars. Not sure where they are now or if they got thrown out/broken as I grew up.

I'm in the early-to-mid 90's camp when it comes to car beauty as well - unsurprisngly enough when I started watching!

Post by **Nuppiz** » 05 Dec 2014, 22:06

dr-baker wrote:
giraurd wrote:Although, the Andrea Moda looked even sleeker with less sponsors!

That is a decent opinion. And I have always pictured in my mind the F1 Rejects logo across the engine cover, where the Industrie Brioche Marche (or whatever it says) logo currently is...

Industrie Regione Marche. I have a very high-resolution picture (over 3000 pixels wide) of the Andrea Moda from the same weekend as my current desktop wallpaper (has been for over two years now).

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 06 Dec 2014, 12:55

Nuppiz wrote:
dr-baker wrote:
giraurd wrote:Although, the Andrea Moda looked even sleeker with less sponsors!

That is a decent opinion. And I have always pictured in my mind the F1 Rejects logo across the engine cover, where the Industrie Brioche Marche (or whatever it says) logo currently is...

Industrie Regione Marche. I have a very high-resolution picture (over 3000 pixels wide) of the Andrea Moda from the same weekend as my current desktop wallpaper (has been for over two years now).

That's right. I couldn't quite remember nor make it out from that photo. Would still look cool with the F1 Rejects logo in its place though!

watka · Post by **watka** » 09 Dec 2014, 00:54

MorbidelliObese wrote:
This wrote:I don't know if anyone remembers those Matchbox Formula one sets. Those were playable but also realistic toys, so that was a goo way to attach to the style of cars from that era.
A few examples:

(btw, if anyone has the Jordan and Lotus cars from these series, i'm looking for them!)

That's just brought a bunch of memories flooding back I had those exact same three cars. Not sure where they are now or if they got thrown out/broken as I grew up.

I'm in the early-to-mid 90's camp when it comes to car beauty as well - unsurprisngly enough when I started watching!

I likewise had those model cars when I was young, which I used to race on one of these Estoril-based playmats (mine looked slightly different):

dr-baker wrote:If we're playing that game, then here's an unpopular opinion for you. This is one of my favourite cars from the era:

I'll raise you with this:

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 09 Dec 2014, 13:08

I was given a Castrol advertising poster in 1994 with the then-current Lotus pictured on it (when I was about 11/12 years old), so will have a soft spot in my heart. Plus Johnny Herbert was a local boy!

MorbidelliObese · Post by **MorbidelliObese** » 10 Dec 2014, 15:04

watka wrote:I likewise had those model cars when I was young, which I used to race on one of these Estoril-based playmats (mine looked slightly different):

Never had that playmat, mine was of a town so I'd stick lego bricks at certain points/junctions to fashion my own street circuit, although overtaking was impossible when racing anything other than Micro Machines

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 01 Jan 2015, 16:30

McLaren needs to drop the Silver color. In the first years of West livery, it was cool, but now its ugly and boring.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 01 Jan 2015, 16:55

Dj_bereta wrote:McLaren needs to drop the Silver color. In the first years of West livery, it was cool, but now it's ugly and boring.

I wouldn't say that it's ugly, but it is too closely associated with Mercedes.

Tank · Post by **Tank** » 12 Jan 2015, 03:51

I actually liked the walrus-nosed Williams - I thought it very brave and innovative.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 12 Jan 2015, 07:13

Tank wrote:I actually liked the walrus-nosed Williams - I thought it very brave and innovative.

I did too. And then when nobody else tried to copy it and do their own the realisation hit...it was useless.

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 12 Jan 2015, 08:55

CoopsII wrote:
Tank wrote:I actually liked the walrus-nosed Williams - I thought it very brave and innovative.

I did too. And then when nobody else tried to copy it and do their own the realisation hit...it was useless.

I too quite like the look of the original FW26 design, just as I love other weird cars like the Ligier JS5, the Eifelland March or even last year's Lotus. They were unique. They tried something different. They failed, but at least they tried.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 12 Jan 2015, 10:46

Simtek wrote:
CoopsII wrote:
Tank wrote:I actually liked the walrus-nosed Williams - I thought it very brave and innovative.

I did too. And then when nobody else tried to copy it and do their own the realisation hit...it was useless.

I too quite like the look of the original FW26 design, just as I love other weird cars like the Ligier JS5, the Eifelland March or even last year's Lotus. They were unique. They tried something different. They failed, but at least they tried.

I too like the FW26. Back then I thought it was different and a bit on the weird side so it made it the coolest car in the grid for me. Quite a shame that it never won a race. The final proof of its uselessness was when Williams changed to a more conventional front wing design it the result was a bump in competitiveness ending up winning the final race in Brazil.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 12 Jan 2015, 11:12

I actually went out and bought a model of that walrus-nosed Williams (in Scalextrix form), suggesting I liked it...

But my favourite odd-looking F1 car is another one-time winner, the Tyrrell P34. A shame that Goodyear did not continue to develop those unique front tyres.

SuzukiSwift · Post by **SuzukiSwift** » 13 Jan 2015, 18:42

14.- Satoru Nakajima was mediocre throughout his career. Takuma Sato at least had a modicum of talent.
15.- Oh, God. Kamui Kobayashi was far more consistent than Sato throughout his career.

14. To add to this, Nakajima was flattered by his favoured status at Honda and underperformed in cars that were actually pretty good (Barring the '88 Lotus).
15. Kobayashi>Sato>Suzuki>Katayama.

I must say that outside of certain exceptions (Tyrrell 019-021 series) all of the high-nosed cars were hideous until about 1997.

AdrianBelmonte_ · Post by **AdrianBelmonte_** » 13 Jan 2015, 20:46

giraurd wrote:Started following in the late 90's-early noughties and that probably is my least favorite era of F1 - both aestethically and racing-wise. Was just about to come and post those lookers but Simtek was quicker with them. Perfect taste, sir.

Although, the Andrea Moda looked even sleeker with less sponsors!

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 13 Jan 2015, 20:59

AdrianBelmonte_ wrote:
giraurd wrote:Started following in the late 90's-early noughties and that probably is my least favorite era of F1 - both aestethically and racing-wise. Was just about to come and post those lookers but Simtek was quicker with them. Perfect taste, sir.

Although, the Andrea Moda looked even sleeker with less sponsors!

Is it just me or does that Perry McCarthy pic look a little bit like it's a painting? Especially around the helmet.

watka · Post by **watka** » 13 Jan 2015, 23:00

SuzukiSwift wrote:

15. Kobayashi>Sato>Suzuki>Katayama.

Would definitely have Katayama above Suzuki. Suzuki got one fluky result whereas Katayama had at one season where he was decent throughout and with better luck would have a podium to his name too.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 14 Jan 2015, 02:39

watka wrote:
SuzukiSwift wrote:

15. Kobayashi>Sato>Suzuki>Katayama.

Would definitely have Katayama above Suzuki. Suzuki got one fluky result whereas Katayama had at one season where he was decent throughout and with better luck would have a podium to his name too.

Furthermore, putting Sato behind Kobayashi is just not apt. Sato is for all intents and purposes better.

SuzukiSwift · Post by **SuzukiSwift** » 14 Jan 2015, 06:33

Well, obvious bias as I am a fan of Aguri, but Suzuki had an excellent 1990. I don't have an excuse as to why he struggled so much with the Footworks. As for Kobayashi, I rate him above Sato due to his consistency. One thing Sato, Suzuki and Katayama all had in common (aside from their speed) was the fact that they had no mechanical sympathy at all and crashed a lot.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 15 Jan 2015, 21:00

Kevin Magnussen will NEVER return to F1. The combination of his stamina falling away in the final races and Vandoorne waiting in the wings at McLaren mean that Abu Dhabi was probably his 19th and last race. Mind you Ron must have suffered some pain having him dropped from the line-up.

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 15 Jan 2015, 21:09

good_Ralf wrote:Kevin Magnussen will NEVER return to F1. The combination of his stamina falling away in the final races and Vandoorne waiting in the wings at McLaren mean that Abu Dhabi was probably his 19th and last race. Mind you Ron must have suffered some pain having him dropped from the line-up.

Nah, he'll be at Red Bull next year and then he will be replaced by Verstappen in mid-2017. His McLaren stint went on longer than his father's but I'm standing by this prediction.

600th post!

Post by **Frogfoot9013** » 15 Jan 2015, 21:12

Simtek wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:Kevin Magnussen will NEVER return to F1. The combination of his stamina falling away in the final races and Vandoorne waiting in the wings at McLaren mean that Abu Dhabi was probably his 19th and last race. Mind you Ron must have suffered some pain having him dropped from the line-up.

Nah, he'll be at Red Bull next year and then he will be replaced by Verstappen in mid-2017. His McLaren stint went on longer than his father's but I'm standing by this prediction.

600th post!

I think K-Mag's gonna go into WEC or TUSCC and not be seen again in F1. Maybe he could race with his father at Le Mans?