2015 Silly Season Thread

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 25 Sep 2014, 05:29

Some possible moves:

MERCEDES - ROSBERG / HAMILTON
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Whatever their differences, Rosberg and Hamilton make for the strongest pairing on the grid.

FERRARI - VETTEL / BIANCHI
Despite four titles, Vettel has never been accepted as a legend of the sport. Another title with Red Bull will do nothing to change that, but leading Ferrari back to glory will. Raikkonen is unceremoniously dumped, and Bianchi promoted over Hulkenberg.

RED BULL - RICCIARDO / KVYAT
Ricciardo keeps his seat in anticipation of a 2015 title bid. With Vettel off to Ferrari and Vergne cast off, Kvyat fills the second seat.

McLAREN - ALONSO / MAGNUSSEN
Ron Dennis does the deal and lures Alonso back. He is partnered with Magnussen, while Button retires and takes over McLaren's driver management programme.

WILLIAMS - BOTTAS / GROSJEAN
Grosjean's desperation to escape Lotus pays off as he hijacks Massa's seat. Bottas unsurprisingly stays with the team.

LOTUS - MALDONADO / WEHRLEIN
After a dismal 2014, people questiom why Lotus even bother. Mercedes, however, keep the faith, promoting Wehrlein to the second seat.

FORCE INDIA - HULKENBERG / PEREZ
Despite being widely-regarded as a shoo-in for a Ferrari seat, Hulkenberg is completely overlooked this time. He and Perez stay on-board at Force India for a second season.

TORO ROSSO - VERSTAPPEN / SAINZ JNR
With Kvyat off to Red Bull, Toro Rosso usher in Sainz Jnr, to the surprise of no-one.

SAUBER - MASSA / OCON
After some serious soul-searching, Sauber cut Gutierrez and Sutil loose. They re-hire Massa, and take Ocon at Ferrari's behest.

MARUSSIA - CHILTON / MERHI
As Red Bull dither over their line-ups, Ferrari seize the initiative and steal Merhi away. Chilton sticks around, keeping the team in the black.

??? - VANDOORNE / EVANS
The Team Formerly Known As Caterham decide to play the long game, dumping Kobayashi and Ericsson in favour of Vandoorne and Evans in the hopes of securing a Honda deal for 2015.

Post by **mario** » 25 Sep 2014, 19:33

And now to liven things up, we have yet more speculation on the state of the driver market, with Adam Cooper throwing out the suggestion that Ferrari may be trying to target Hamilton as a potential replacement for Alonso, should he leave, although he has also indicated that Vettel remains high on their list as well. http://adamcooperf1.com/2014/09/25/has- ... /#comments

AustralianStig · Post by **AustralianStig** » 25 Sep 2014, 21:50

This might belong in the unpopular opinions thread, but I was thinking about the third car idea the other day and it occurred to be that I'd actually really support this idea. After all, it means more drivers in more competitive cars, therefore the racing should be better.

Although I'd hate to see third cars coming in at the expense of small teams, so I guess this is one of those 'have your cake/eat it' situations.

watka · Post by **watka** » 25 Sep 2014, 23:56

I'm supporting this conspiracy theory on Max Verstappen.

Red Bull must be trying to get some publicity back after Mercedes have hogged all the headlines and furthermore, Verstappen was on Mercedes young driver program, so they must have poached him in order to dump him into F1 and hope that he'll do atrociously and therefore remove him as a threat from the equation.

There's some logic in there somewhere.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 26 Sep 2014, 03:52

Somehow I doubt third cars will actually become a thing. The idea has been suggested so many times, I can only hope it finally dies.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 26 Sep 2014, 04:22

The teams reckon it's not possible in 2015, as they would need six months' warning to make the grid. It's not as easy as simply building a third car - there's infrastructure that would need to be put in place, and it would be a $20 million outlay (albeit a one-time-only expense) according to Toto Wolff.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 26 Sep 2014, 06:44

AustralianStig wrote:This might belong in the unpopular opinions thread, but I was thinking about the third car idea the other day and it occurred to be that I'd actually really support this idea. After all, it means more drivers in more competitive cars, therefore the racing should be better.

Am I right in thinking the drivers in the third cars dont collect points though or is it just constructor points?

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 26 Sep 2014, 07:37

Points is the big issue with three cars. If big teams have three cars, it will be harder for smaller teams to get points. We could conceivably wind up in a position where three teams lock out the top nine places, leaving everyone else fighting over a single point.

The easiest way to do it would be to award constructor points to the LAST car from a team to cross the line. So if the final result was ROS-RIC-VET-HAM, Red Bull would get full WCC points because both of their drivers crossed the line before the Mercedes drivers. If one driver retires, the team get no points - even if their driver won the race; alternatively, the team would still score points based on the retired driver's position, but they wouldn't get many. And in the event that a driver took out several cars and was deemed responsible, they would be classified as the first driver from that group out of the race, minimising the team's points.

TheFlyingCaterham · Post by **TheFlyingCaterham** » 26 Sep 2014, 08:12

Captain Hammer wrote:Points is the big issue with three cars. If big teams have three cars, it will be harder for smaller teams to get points. We could conceivably wind up in a position where three teams lock out the top nine places, leaving everyone else fighting over a single point.

The easiest way to do it would be to award constructor points to the LAST car from a team to cross the line. So if the final result was ROS-RIC-VET-HAM, Red Bull would get full WCC points because both of their drivers crossed the line before the Mercedes drivers. If one driver retires, the team get no points - even if their driver won the race; alternatively, the team would still score points based on the retired driver's position, but they wouldn't get many. And in the event that a driver took out several cars and was deemed responsible, they would be classified as the first driver from that group out of the race, minimising the team's points.

Lotus and Mercedes wouldn't liek you for this

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 26 Sep 2014, 09:21

Third car teams on itself, alone, is a bad idea to the sport. And a great idea to the promoter that wants to pay less money to the teams!

My first reason for opposing to it is, above all and being this F1Rejects, what would happen to the smaller teams that find it hard enough as it is to field 2 cars, nevermind 3. That would mean that such outfits like Caterham, Marussia, Sauber and probably Lotus would be driven out of F1. And I have no doubt that this is Bernie's first objective (see my first paragraph). Thinking otherwise is being very optimistic.

Then, as already been said, it is not inconceivable that we end up having 3-4 teams locking up the points. Red Bull, Mercedes, Ferrari and McLaren would all be over in the points while Williams, Force India and Toro Rosso would trundle along filling up the grid. How long would Williams or for that matter Force India last in these circunstances? Sure we might have owner changes in these teams but is there a reason to believe they will go better than most of the team owner changes we have today? What if one of the top teams, say Mercedes, grows tired of spending battling some Ferraris, some Hondas and some Renaults (supposing that these last two don't pull out meanwhile) and leaves the sport? That is one less major team and the impact would be much higher than when Toyota left. Besides all this, there is always the question of the sport staying hostage of some big manufacturer (like when Audi and Peugeot were dictating rules to ACO). I know it is a grim view, but is there othere way to see it? I mean, F1 is an already closed environment where someone finds it pretty much impossible to enter and be succesful. Do we want it to be even more of a closed environment?

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 26 Sep 2014, 09:22

TheFlyingCaterham wrote:Lotus and Mercedes wouldn't liek you for this

It's not like they're scoring points under the current structure ...

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 26 Sep 2014, 09:45

Captain Hammer wrote:
TheFlyingCaterham wrote:Lotus and Mercedes wouldn't liek you for this

It's not like they're scoring points under the current structure ...

Mercedes is, though.

RAK · Post by **RAK** » 26 Sep 2014, 09:58

RonDenisDeletraz wrote:Somehow I doubt third cars will actually become a thing. The idea has been suggested so many times, I can only hope it finally dies.

Agreed; if we were to have any move away from the two-car team, I'd prefer if it allowed for the implementation of single-car teams rather than third cars.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 26 Sep 2014, 10:16

If all teams had to run three cars I'd be very happy.

watka · Post by **watka** » 26 Sep 2014, 12:40

One big positive I can see from three car teams would be for the drivers. Rather than their being only a handful of prime seats (this year there are 6 - Mercedes, Red Bull and Williams, arguably 8 if you include Ferrari), 3 car teams would mean more seats in competitive cars. In the last 5 seasons, we've only seen Ricciardo (+ arguably Rosberg) break through into a seat where they have the chance to win grand prix on a semi-regular basis. Perez and Magnussen have been hired by McLaren but you got the impression that was only because they knew they wouldn't be fighting for titles. Elsewhere on the grid, the seats going to young drivers have been determined by whether they have cash or are part of the Red Bull roster.

3 car teams eliminates some of the risk element for these teams in hiring a rookie or a sophomore. It means that there would be a chance, for example, for Bianchi or Hulkenberg to graduate to Ferrari whilst they still have 2 more experienced and proven hands in the other car. It is becoming increasingly rare to see someone start out in a midfield or lower end team and move up to a top end team unless they are sponsored by a driver program - and even then they are often under extreme pressure to perform. The two drivers I mentioned are in danger of potentially never getting a top end drive the longer time goes on and they will be increasingly looking over their shoulders at the next crop of drivers coming through.

andrew2209 · Post by **andrew2209** » 26 Sep 2014, 16:12

Whist having 3 car teams could result in the points being locked out, in the 90's Ferrari, Williams, McLaren and Benetton regularly had the majority of points between them, so it's not like it hasn't happened before.

Post by **mario** » 26 Sep 2014, 19:17

DanielPT wrote:Third car teams on itself, alone, is a bad idea to the sport. And a great idea to the promoter that wants to pay less money to the teams!

My first reason for opposing to it is, above all and being this F1Rejects, what would happen to the smaller teams that find it hard enough as it is to field 2 cars, nevermind 3. That would mean that such outfits like Caterham, Marussia, Sauber and probably Lotus would be driven out of F1. And I have no doubt that this is Bernie's first objective (see my first paragraph). Thinking otherwise is being very optimistic.

Then, as already been said, it is not inconceivable that we end up having 3-4 teams locking up the points. Red Bull, Mercedes, Ferrari and McLaren would all be over in the points while Williams, Force India and Toro Rosso would trundle along filling up the grid. How long would Williams or for that matter Force India last in these circunstances? Sure we might have owner changes in these teams but is there a reason to believe they will go better than most of the team owner changes we have today? What if one of the top teams, say Mercedes, grows tired of spending battling some Ferraris, some Hondas and some Renaults (supposing that these last two don't pull out meanwhile) and leaves the sport? That is one less major team and the impact would be much higher than when Toyota left. Besides all this, there is always the question of the sport staying hostage of some big manufacturer (like when Audi and Peugeot were dictating rules to ACO). I know it is a grim view, but is there othere way to see it? I mean, F1 is an already closed environment where someone finds it pretty much impossible to enter and be succesful. Do we want it to be even more of a closed environment?

And that is a reason why I am also uncomfortable with the proposal for three car teams - whilst it may bring a few short term benefit for some drivers, since it may enable then to gain a seat with a particular team, the overall long term prospects for the sport are quite damaging given the prospect for a shrinking of the engineering talent pool and the increased impact of an individual manufacturer pulling its support.

Post by **mario** » 27 Sep 2014, 18:00

Captain Hammer wrote:My understanding on the sponsor situation is that Ron is still Ron - he wants a long-term sponsor, like West and Vodafone. It's believed that they were talking to play.com/buy.com, but the deal fell through because the company wanted a shorter deal than the team did.

The Honda deal is going to have a wider scope than the team - I expect that their road cars will also benefit. That's what Ron has been working on these past few years. Any sponsor the team picks up will also suit the road car division and Honda. So they naturally want to take their time. I can't see them joining up with tobacco, alcohol or gambling companies, because Ron will want maximum coverage at every event.

As fir that Diageo story, Byron Young has some interesting thoughts on it - he says that even though the article references him, the author of said article never asked him about it.

Revising this point, there has since been a clarification from McLaren on Diageo - it appears that the situation is a little nuanced than initially thought.

McLaren and Diageo have confirmed that they are continuing their existing contract, which means Johnnie Walker logos will continue to appear on the sidepods of the car. However, it seems that McLaren were trying to persuade Diageo to increase their sponsorship package and become the title sponsors for the team - with a price tag commensurate with their increased prominence. It is that title sponsorship deal which appears to have been rejected by Diageo, but the existing sponsorship deal is being maintained.

razta · Post by **razta** » 28 Sep 2014, 06:52

Rubens wants the 3rd Mercedes seat if 3 cars are enabled.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/barri ... -singapore

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 28 Sep 2014, 08:33

razta wrote:Rubens wants the 3rd Mercedes seat if 3 cars are enabled.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/barri ... -singapore

I approve.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 29 Sep 2014, 07:28

Klon wrote:
razta wrote:Rubens wants the 3rd Mercedes seat if 3 cars are enabled.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/barri ... -singapore

I approve.

Me too although the quote

"Since I've been karting regularly again, I've lost weight,"

made me laugh as it sounds like Rubens had piled the pounds on to the extent it needed pointing out he'd lost them again.

razta · Post by **razta** » 30 Sep 2014, 06:19

HAHHAHAHAH yeah.. Fatty twobens

FMecha · Post by **FMecha** » 01 Oct 2014, 06:41

Eddie Jordan on Alonso to McLaren... as well as Vettel? http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/29422678

Discuss. I say it is way to premature for Vettel to leave RBR.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 01 Oct 2014, 07:10

What I like about Eddie Jordan is that he always manages to mention Jordan F1s achievements in every thing he does :lol:

roblo97 · Post by **roblo97** » 01 Oct 2014, 07:49

FMecha wrote:Eddie Jordan on Alonso to McLaren... as well as Vettel? http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/29422678

Discuss. I say it is way to premature for Vettel to leave RBR.

If that happens, Vergne to Red Bull, you heard it first on the F1 Rejects podcast!

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 01 Oct 2014, 08:07

I can see McLaren going for Alonso or Vettel, but not both. It's at odds with Ron Dennis' comments to Kevin Magnussen about not letting his penalties change the way he drives.

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 01 Oct 2014, 11:31

Captain Hammer wrote:I can see McLaren going for Alonso or Vettel, but not both. It's at odds with Ron Dennis' comments to Kevin Magnussen about not letting his penalties change the way he drives.

While I don't believe it will happen, Alonso and Vettel is a far more marketable line up than Alonso and Magnussen or Vettel and Magnussen. If the cost of their contracts is outweighed by additional sponsorship it would be worth shafting Magnussen.

LellaLombardi · Post by **LellaLombardi** » 01 Oct 2014, 12:02

Backmarker wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:I can see McLaren going for Alonso or Vettel, but not both. It's at odds with Ron Dennis' comments to Kevin Magnussen about not letting his penalties change the way he drives.

While I don't believe it will happen, Alonso and Vettel is a far more marketable line up than Alonso and Magnussen or Vettel and Magnussen. If the cost of their contracts is outweighed by additional sponsorship it would be worth shafting Magnussen.

I would be appalled if they gave Magnussen the Perez treatment. The whole idea of shafting Perez was that Magnussen was the hot new talent and he's done a solid job this season.

Either way it looks like Button's going.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 01 Oct 2014, 12:08

LellaLombardi wrote:
Backmarker wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:I can see McLaren going for Alonso or Vettel, but not both. It's at odds with Ron Dennis' comments to Kevin Magnussen about not letting his penalties change the way he drives.

While I don't believe it will happen, Alonso and Vettel is a far more marketable line up than Alonso and Magnussen or Vettel and Magnussen. If the cost of their contracts is outweighed by additional sponsorship it would be worth shafting Magnussen.

I would be appalled if they gave Magnussen the Perez treatment. The whole idea of shafting Perez was that Magnussen was the hot new talent and he's done a solid job this season.

You'd also have to keep in mind Magnussen was brought up through the ranks as part of the McLaren young driver program, so it'd make no logical sense for McLaren to dump him at this point.

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 01 Oct 2014, 18:14

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116103

Although on the plus side this increases van der God's chances of securing a seat.

Post by **mario** » 01 Oct 2014, 19:21

Captain Hammer wrote:I can see McLaren going for Alonso or Vettel, but not both. It's at odds with Ron Dennis' comments to Kevin Magnussen about not letting his penalties change the way he drives.

It does seem plausible that both of those drivers would be targets for McLaren, but there are probably two major questions over McLaren that are going to potentially put off those drivers.

Firstly, there is a major question over how competitive Honda's engine will prove to be - will they be able to produce an engine that can compete with the Mercedes unit, or are they likely to be lagging behind (not just in terms of outright performance, but also in terms of reliability)? Honda are beginning to release a few details of their engine, but even so it is going to be a long time before we have an idea of where they stand - at least Ferrari and Renault can provide Alonso and Vettel with an indication of what upgrades are in the pipeline and offer a sense of reassurance that Honda currently cannot.

Secondly, there is going to be a question over how McLaren's reorganisation will work out - we've seen a number of changes within McLaren's technical team, but it will take a while before the effects of that reorganisation are going to be felt. For Alonso, the risk is perhaps less given that Ferrari are themselves going through a period of major reorganisation, so either way there will probably be some pain in the short term whether he was at Ferrari or McLaren.
As for Vettel, well, a number of the people that McLaren were targeting were Red Bull employees - Prodromou being the highest profile acquisition - so at least he'd have some familiarity with a number of key players, but still it'd be a major risk to leave a fairly stable team that has had a pretty strong technical team for several years now.

That, I think, is perhaps in some ways a bigger concern than the Honda powertrain - McLaren have not been the leading chassis designer for a number of years now, and their aero performance has been somewhat lacking too.
After all, even if they are being given the minimum level of support possible by Mercedes, they still have the best engine in the field and are unable to beat either Ferrari or Renault, despite the problems both of those teams have had - they're also lagging quite some way behind Williams and are struggling to beat Force India too, and both of those teams have considerably fewer resources at their disposal than McLaren. Even if Honda can match Mercedes right from the start, if the MP4/30 has a chassis that is as lacklustre as the previous iterations, they probably won't be picking up many trophies in 2015 irrespective of their driver line up - and that is going to be something that will make both drivers think, especially Vettel (as Red Bull have pretty consistently produced a better chassis than McLaren for some years now).

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 01 Oct 2014, 19:24

Simtek wrote::( http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116103

Although on the plus side this increases van der God's chances of securing a seat.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! And if you prefer van der "God", you can Boo-urn.

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 01 Oct 2014, 22:15

dr-baker wrote:
Simtek wrote: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116103

Although on the plus side this increases van der God's chances of securing a seat.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! And if you prefer van der "God", you can Boo-urn.

I can assure you I would rather Simona getting the drive, the van der God comment was just an attempt to extract some kind of positive from this sad story.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 01 Oct 2014, 22:51

I don't believe any stories about VDG until they actually happen. There are constant rumours about his future in the sport, and I strongly suspect he is the one behind them. Given the frequency at which they happen, you could be forgiven for thinking that he's a prodigious, must-watch talent. But he's not - he's a mediocre driver with an inflated opinion of himself.

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 01 Oct 2014, 23:05

To be honest I don't know what evidence there ever was to suggest Giedo was a big talent, other than a couple of great qualifying sessions last year, and those were freak occurrences more than Senna-esque performances. Though I would still rather see him in the Sauber than the two guys that are there now, even if he is not a whole lot better.

Frentzen127 · Post by **Frentzen127** » 01 Oct 2014, 23:08

Captain Hammer wrote:he's a mediocre driver with an inflated opinion of himself.

Precisely why he must be given a seat! The entertainment!

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 01 Oct 2014, 23:17

Frentzen127 wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:he's a mediocre driver with an inflated opinion of himself.

Precisely why he must be given a seat! The entertainment!

You do realise that sentence also perfectly describes Paul di Resta right? Are you saying you found di Resta entertaining? :shock:

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 01 Oct 2014, 23:43

Simtek wrote:
Frentzen127 wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:he's a mediocre driver with an inflated opinion of himself.

Precisely why he must be given a seat! The entertainment!

You do realise that sentence also perfectly describes Paul di Resta right? Are you saying you found di Resta entertaining?

I never really thought Di Resta was boring. His inflated ego was good for a laugh sometimes

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 02 Oct 2014, 09:53

Captain Hammer wrote:he's a mediocre driver with an inflated opinion of himself.

Tell me Captain, which is more difficult? To enter F1 being a mediocre driver with an inflated opinion of himself, being hugely talented or having insane amounts of cash à la Maldonado? That's Mr Giedo van der God for you! :lol:

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 02 Oct 2014, 10:01

DanielPT wrote:Tell me Captain, which is more difficult? To enter F1 being a mediocre driver with an inflated opinion of himself, being hugely talented or having insane amounts of cash à la Maldonado? That's Mr Giedo van der God for you!

Giedo van der Garde has rather not sane amounts of cash too, so that doesn't count.