2014 Australian Grand Prix Thread - A New Dawn?

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 16 Mar 2014, 08:35

By my numbers is five/six retirements related to mechanical failures (depending on how you count Bianchi, he was running at the end but unclassified): both Lotus, Hamilton, Vettel and Ericsson. I've said somewhere that we wouldn't get more than five mechanical-induced retirements in Oz, so basically within my expectations.

I was quite excited at the beginning -there were things going on everywhere, and I didn't start thinking about DRS, tyres and other things until lap 9 or so, which is telling. The action dropped from there on, but it was still at least an okayish race. I've been reading a lot of criticism in my Twitter feed, many people that are usually fair and balanced (hey, I think that's why I follow them!) looked absolutely disappointed with lots of things, the racing itself, the engines, the pace... so I'm happy to see the line here is more similar to how I've seen it.

I was quite surprised to see Hamilton drop out, and as has already been said it was a bit of a déjà vu from his final McLaren days. It was a relief to see Bottas surviving his incident -at the moment of impact I was thinking, "this can't be happening, yet another quick car that Williams are going to waste in the first few races?!" The car was really fast (fastest apart from Mercedes and Red Bull I would say), and I can't help but seen similarities between them and Stewart in 1999: the livery looks similar from a distance, they have a lot of pace coming from nowhere the previous season, and even their first race has been similar: one car out at the beginning and a a great comeback from the other one. And also from a distance, the Martini logo at the rear wing looks like the Malaysia logo that used to be in the Stewart, although that wasn't in 1999. A big plus is that the Williams seems to be a lot more reliable!

Mercedes are the class of the field at the moment -and the gap to Red Bull is bigger than I felt yesterday, so when Red Bull fix all their problems it should be an interesting battle. Also, now that Renault are up to speed it looks like the Ferrari engine is definitely under par: it can't be coincidence that Sauber are so far behind, when we've seen the Ferrari drivers struggle both to overtake and to avoid being overtaken. So it's two out of three things that were predicted six or seven months ago about the engines: that Mercedes would be very strong, that Ferrari was down, and that Renault would have a hell of preseason testing (this one wasn't). If it is definitely the case, I can see Alonso leaving Ferrari after this year: he looked extremely disappointed during the post-race interview in Spanish television.

A great debut race for Magnussen, I'm uncertain where McLaren are at the moment, third best Mercedes team at the moment and a bit better than Ferrari on pace, although the Alonso factor makes it more or less level (Alonso lost a lot of time stuck behind Hulkenberg). Force India have been a disappointment: if the Ferrari problems can be fixed (they twitted that their electrical systems were running down, so maybe there is something more to come), and given that Renault are improving fast, then they might find themselves at the back of the established teams, fighting with Sauber. Only Hulkenberg has saved them.

Finally, Lotus will be back I believe, they were absolutely nowhere at the beginning but were steadily increasing their pace lap after lap. Of course, once they reached a certain point of speed they ended up having to retire, but that's what testing is for, and this weekend was their missing third test.

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 16 Mar 2014, 08:39

I think Alan Jones just hosted the best podium interviews since it's inception. He was calm, listened to what the drivers had to say, did not interrupt, and asked some good, lighthearted questions.
He didn't scream silly like Eddie Jordan, and he didn't slur his words like so many others before him. Good job, Jones.

SgtPepper · Post by **SgtPepper** » 16 Mar 2014, 08:45

Anthony Davidson has just reported that Kamui may have had some form of brake failure.

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 16 Mar 2014, 08:52

Jocke1 wrote:I think Alan Jones just hosted the best podium interviews since it's inception. He was calm, listened to what the drivers had to say, did not interrupt, and asked some good, lighthearted questions.
He didn't scream silly like Eddie Jordan, and he didn't slur his words like so many others before him. Good job, Jones.

Alan Jones is a nice chap, and conducted some good interviews.

But the whole idea is stupid still. If you want someone famous to do interview the drivers, just get them to sit with them in the press conference. I miss the post race press conference.

More_Blue_Flags · Post by **More_Blue_Flags** » 16 Mar 2014, 08:54

Managed to get home from work about 90 minutes after the race started and managed to watch the recording without sneaking a peek at the results or having my daughter (a Nico Rosberg fan) gleefully tell me about the Rosberg-Ricciardo podium finish. Great race, but my initial reaction is to wonder if Bottas could qualify for both ROTR and IIDOTR after clipping the wall and losing the wheel but a great drive afterwards?

Post by **Londoner** » 16 Mar 2014, 09:40

Oh you are having a bloody laugh

FIA stewards are about to become public enemy number one in Australia.

Post by **mario** » 16 Mar 2014, 09:52

More_Blue_Flags wrote:Managed to get home from work about 90 minutes after the race started and managed to watch the recording without sneaking a peek at the results or having my daughter (a Nico Rosberg fan) gleefully tell me about the Rosberg-Ricciardo podium finish. Great race, but my initial reaction is to wonder if Bottas could qualify for both ROTR and IIDOTR after clipping the wall and losing the wheel but a great drive afterwards?

It is true that Bottas's actions were both impressive and yet left us wondering what might have been - he still managed a fairly respectable finish but perhaps could have beaten Alonso if he hadn't lost it at that crucial moment.

East Londoner wrote:Oh you are having a bloody laugh

FIA stewards are about to become public enemy number one in Australia.

Unfortunately, the rules are the rules even if it would be a very unpopular disqualification - we will have to wait and see what happens though, as it may be the case that he exceeded the fuel flow limit but is within the error of margin of the fuel flow meter. If it is, it might just give the team enough wriggle room to argue against a disqualification (although the FIA have indicated that they will take a harsh line against fuel infractions).

Post by **Londoner** » 16 Mar 2014, 09:54

The wording from Jo Bauer mentioned that "Car 3 exceeded "consistantly" the max fuel flow limit. That's pretty much a clear cut DSQ.

EDIT: https://twitter.com/tedkravitz/status/445135537285111808

I think that's official. Such a shame.

ryangregg12345 · Post by **ryangregg12345** » 16 Mar 2014, 09:59

Magnussen is SO getting that role in Tooned

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 16 Mar 2014, 10:02

Oh deary deary me! This is absolutely disgraceful that it is going to be resolved in such a manner, yes I am delighted at a potential double Mclaren podium, but not in such an arbitrary and nonsense manner as this!

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 16 Mar 2014, 10:05

Calm down folks, cast your minds back to the mid 90s and it was quite common for drivers to be disqualified in the first few races due to fuel irregularities. These things happen, he drove a good race, no-one's taking that away from him but Red Bull have broken the rules (intentionally or unintentionally is irrelevant) and the rulebook must be adhered to. No point kicking up a fuss about it, accept it, appreciate what an excellent drive it was and look forward to Malaysia!

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 16 Mar 2014, 10:08

the big change here though is that Red Bull will now be nowhere in the constructors due to this decision. Mclaren out in front of Mercedes is an unexpected big gain. Ferrari also get stronger result. Whilst Perez flukes a totally undeserved point. Madness.

Post by **Londoner** » 16 Mar 2014, 10:08

AndreaModa wrote:Calm down folks, cast your minds back to the mid 90s and it was quite common for drivers to be disqualified in the first few races due to fuel irregularities. These things happen, he drove a good race, no-one's taking that away from him but Red Bull have broken the rules (intentionally or unintentionally is irrelevant) and the rulebook must be adhered to. No point kicking up a fuss about it, accept it, appreciate what an excellent drive it was and look forward to Malaysia!

Nah, I'd rather have all of the stewards hung by the larger of their two testicles for their decision right now. :lol:

[/Blackadder The Third reference]

ryangregg12345 · Post by **ryangregg12345** » 16 Mar 2014, 10:10

Since when was there a fuel flow limit???

"This is UNACCEPTABLE!!!" - Adventure Time's Lemongrab.
Bernie Ecclestone will want a word with those stewards.

Why is it every time a driver commits an offence, whether it's major or not, the stewards report them to the authorities? These FIA regulations are getting out of hand, I tell you. :evil:

Three years ago they deprived Perez of debut points, and now they threaten to deprive Ricciardo of a debut podium on home soil.
Something has got to be done or they will ruin the good name of Formula One.

Heh that rhymes. :lol:

GwilymJJames · Post by **GwilymJJames** » 16 Mar 2014, 10:28

Pfft, the good name of Formula One got ruined years back.

Post by **mario** » 16 Mar 2014, 10:33

ryangregg12345 wrote:Since when was there a fuel flow limit???
"This is UNACCEPTABLE!!!" - Adventure Time's Lemongrab.
Bernie Ecclestone will want a word with those stewards.

Why is it every time a driver commits an offence, whether it's major or not, the stewards report them to the authorities?
Something has got to be done or they will ruin the good name of Formula One.

That clause has been in the 2014 spec regulations for some time (at least a year in advance of the new rules) - as for the referral, it is part of the formal investigation procedure as it enables them to investigate everything in a more detailed manner.

And as AndreaModa says, if it is a clear breach of the regulations and the car was running in an illegal configuration, then ultimately the penalty is harsh but justifiable. The regulation is the same for all parties, and although it is very unpopular it is also the case that ultimately the team has to abide by the rules, especially if it is one that could give a potential performance benefit (McLaren could argue that Ricciardo would have had slightly more power by breaching that rule, and therefore may have been in a position to defend against Magnussen that he would otherwise not have been in, if the fuel flow rate was indeed higher than permitted).
However, we might have to wait a little longer as there are now a few claims that the investigation is still ongoing (it seems that key staff from Red Bull are being asked to visit the stewards). Incidentally, it would appear that Ricciardo's fuel meter was a little troublesome - Red Bull had replaced the device in Parc Ferme, so perhaps there is a possibility of a technical issue than a definite breach of the rules.

[Incidentally, I like your taste in comedy East Londoner with the Blackadder reference there...]

ryangregg12345 · Post by **ryangregg12345** » 16 Mar 2014, 10:39

GwilymJJames wrote:Pfft, the good name of Formula One got ruined years back.

Then they'll ruin it even more, with harsher FIA regulations and penalties that will tarnish the sport as we know it.
I can remember Lewis Hamilton losing his pole position at Spain 2012 JUST because of pit crew error, they didn't fill the McLaren with enough fuel.

Drugs already tarnished the name of cycling, and now this.

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 16 Mar 2014, 10:51

ryangregg12345 wrote:
GwilymJJames wrote:Pfft, the good name of Formula One got ruined years back.

Then they'll ruin it even more, with harsher FIA regulations and penalties that will tarnish the sport as we know it.
I can remember Lewis Hamilton losing his pole position at Spain 2012 JUST because of pit crew error, they didn't fill the McLaren with enough fuel.

Drugs already tarnished the name of cycling, and now this.

Oh, sit down and shut up, you cretin.

As AndreaModa and others have pointed out, if they broke the rules, Ricky unfortunately HAS to be DSQ'd. But his amazing weekend has endeared himself even further, no one will forget. As for the Hamilton incident - again, rules were broken, and punishments had to be broken out. The decision made Maldonado's job of winning the GP even easier.

It's been a great first weekend of racing, and yet all you can do is moan because it hasn't gone the way we'd have liked it to? It's racing, shite happens. I'd have thought you'd be mature enough to understand that instead of whinging about it.

ryangregg12345 · Post by **ryangregg12345** » 16 Mar 2014, 10:55

pasta_maldonado wrote:
ryangregg12345 wrote:
GwilymJJames wrote:Pfft, the good name of Formula One got ruined years back.

Then they'll ruin it even more, with harsher FIA regulations and penalties that will tarnish the sport as we know it.
I can remember Lewis Hamilton losing his pole position at Spain 2012 JUST because of pit crew error, they didn't fill the McLaren with enough fuel.

Drugs already tarnished the name of cycling, and now this.

Oh, sit down and shut up, you cretin.

As AndreaModa and others have pointed out, if they broke the rules, Ricky unfortunately HAS to be DSQ'd. But his amazing weekend has endeared himself even further, no one will forget. As for the Hamilton incident - again, rules were broken, and punishments had to be broken out. The decision made Maldonado's job of winning the GP even easier.

It's been a great first weekend of racing, and yet all you can do is moan because it hasn't gone the way we'd have liked it to? It's racing, shite happens. I'd have thought you'd be mature enough to understand that instead of whinging about it.

I know it's racing, I'm calm, but I'm expressing my own opinion of why Ricciardo should keep his podium because it was history in the making, and it came in his first race for Red Bull, and why the stewards shouldn't take it away from him. I'm looking forward to the highlights later today.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 16 Mar 2014, 11:03

ryangregg12345 wrote:I know it's racing, I'm calm, but I'm expressing my own opinion of why Ricciardo should keep his podium because it was history in the making, and it came in his first race for Red Bull, and why the stewards shouldn't take it away from him. I'm looking forward to the highlights later today.

That is not an acceptable reason to throw the rulebook out of the window. Not even slightly.

AxelP800 · Post by **AxelP800** » 16 Mar 2014, 11:15

I have decide on myself: Whenever FIA DSQ someone because of fuel limit thing, I don't care. Ricciardo is always recorded to finished 2nd at 2014 Australian GP

Be smart FIA

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 16 Mar 2014, 11:24

ryangregg12345 wrote:I know it's racing, I'm calm, but I'm expressing my own opinion of why Ricciardo should keep his podium because it was history in the making, and it came in his first race for Red Bull, and why the stewards shouldn't take it away from him. I'm looking forward to the highlights later today.

I wonder if you'd have the same reaction if the other Red Bull had gotten disqualified from a podium position. Unfortunately, the rules are the rules, and Red Bull can't just evade a punishment because of a "historic" result.

Otherwise, the first 10 laps were fantastic and the rest was okay. The engine wheezes were a bit annoying but I can get used to it. I'm still excited for the rest of the season, so I'm satisfied.

Post by **mario** » 16 Mar 2014, 11:27

Salamander wrote:
ryangregg12345 wrote:I know it's racing, I'm calm, but I'm expressing my own opinion of why Ricciardo should keep his podium because it was history in the making, and it came in his first race for Red Bull, and why the stewards shouldn't take it away from him. I'm looking forward to the highlights later today.

That is not an acceptable reason to throw the rulebook out of the window. Not even slightly.

I have to agree there too - whilst Ricciardo's performance was indeed hugely popular, if it came about because his engine was able to exceed the fuel flow limit rate and was therefore producing more power than it should have been, ultimately you cannot ignore that just because it was "history in the making". Yes, I would be disappointed if Ricciardo was indeed stripped of 2nd place on technical grounds, but at the same time we cannot simply ignore the fact that both he and the team may have benefited by doing so.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 16 Mar 2014, 11:33

mario wrote:I would be disappointed if Ricciardo was indeed stripped of 2nd place on technical grounds, but at the same time we cannot simply ignore the fact that both he and the team may have benefited by doing so.

Then Red Bull might be hiding their real pace, which might be a lot slower. I guess we'll see how fast (or slow) and reliable they really are in Malaysia.

FullMetalJack wrote:Just a quick question. Assuming Ricciardo keeps his podium, when was the last time we had two unrejectifications in one race?

Thread for driver unrejectifications

The 2005 USGP, which of course, was a farce. The drivers in question were Monteiro and Karthikeyan.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 16 Mar 2014, 11:36

Just a quick question. Assuming Ricciardo keeps his podium, when was the last time we had two unrejectifications in one race?

More_Blue_Flags · Post by **More_Blue_Flags** » 16 Mar 2014, 11:47

mario wrote:
Salamander wrote:
ryangregg12345 wrote:I know it's racing, I'm calm, but I'm expressing my own opinion of why Ricciardo should keep his podium because it was history in the making, and it came in his first race for Red Bull, and why the stewards shouldn't take it away from him. I'm looking forward to the highlights later today.

That is not an acceptable reason to throw the rulebook out of the window. Not even slightly.

I have to agree there too - whilst Ricciardo's performance was indeed hugely popular, if it came about because his engine was able to exceed the fuel flow limit rate and was therefore producing more power than it should have been, ultimately you cannot ignore that just because it was "history in the making". Yes, I would be disappointed if Ricciardo was indeed stripped of 2nd place on technical grounds, but at the same time we cannot simply ignore the fact that both he and the team may have benefited by doing so.

While I would be very disappointed to see Ricciardo lose his result after today's drive it's hard to disagree with this reasoning.

I am assuming that if Ricciardo is DSQ then everybody else moves up a placing? If so, seeing Perez pick up an undeserved championship point for an undistinguished drive is another disappointing outcome.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 16 Mar 2014, 12:26

There's been situations before with fuel irregularities (Brazil 1995 springs to mind) where Schumacher and Coulthard kept their results but their respective teams did not. Could this not happen here?

Dan B · Post by **Dan B** » 16 Mar 2014, 12:39

More_Blue_Flags wrote:I am assuming that if Ricciardo is DSQ then everybody else moves up a placing? If so, seeing Perez pick up an undeserved championship point for an undistinguished drive is another disappointing outcome.

Unless they pull some kind of "no second place scorer" a-la Lance Armstrong Tour stripping, I think that is what happens. However, rules are rules, and if Red Bull did break them, well, that's tough.

Decent race, though I expected it to end like this. Lotus surprised me since I thought they would've dropped off sooner, great drives from Bottas, Magnussen, and Kvyat, and good drives from Alonso and Hulkenberg. Kobayashi's punting of Massa though was pretty amateurish but if it was due to brake failure, then there's not much more that can be done though I do sympathize with Massa as I do feel like he could've been much higher. And as for Raikkonen, well, he was thrashed.

Disappointing for Marussia and Sauber; I understand Marussia does not have the funds but they have a decent engine this time and could've been higher but with their engine stalls on the grid that pretty much ruined their race. Sauber though were awful. Sutil was anonymous at best and Gutierrez was just slow.

In all, a decent race.

IceG · Post by **IceG** » 16 Mar 2014, 12:41

Wolff got his defence in early apparently: http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns27547.html

IceG · Post by **IceG** » 16 Mar 2014, 12:43

Vettel's car was surely under weight given all the toys he was throwing out in the laps he completed.

wsrgo · Post by **wsrgo** » 16 Mar 2014, 12:56

It's confirmed

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 16 Mar 2014, 13:01

That means Red Bull double-DNF, have no points from race 1 and the home curse for Australian drivers continues.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 16 Mar 2014, 13:05

In related news, this decision moves Talent to 13th. Which is better than anything Caterham managed last year, and by the looks of it, could well settle the battle of the minnows.

ryangregg12345 · Post by **ryangregg12345** » 16 Mar 2014, 13:20

Damn you stewards.

Australia is officially cursed. The stewards have officially sodded up history again.
And, that's right, good_Ralf, Red Bull score zero points, both drivers not classified, and Australia's home drought continues, with Ricciardo being the first driver to be disqualified from a Grand Prix since the same race three years ago with the Sauber fiasco.

But look on the bright side, McLaren have a double podium finish and Button is on the podium for the first time in 20 races!
And Magnussen's third becomes second, still the highest-ever finish for a Dane in F1. This extend's McLaren points lead to 8.
And Force India gets double points, with Perez pushed into the top 10.
This is also Chilton's best career finish with thirteenth, maintaining his perfect record from last year.

Ricciardo will be throwing a huge meltdown right now.

noiceinmydrink · Post by **noiceinmydrink** » 16 Mar 2014, 13:38

ryangregg12345 wrote:Ricciardo will be throwing a huge meltdown right now.

Are you sure?

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 16 Mar 2014, 13:40

There could be nuclear war and Ricciardo would be smiling!

Still, Ricky's DSQ promotes Magnussen to second, equalling the best ever finish for a rookie (Villeneuve's 2nd in Australia, 97)

Post by **Nuppiz** » 16 Mar 2014, 13:41

tommykl wrote:Vigneron (Belgian commentator) just stated that K-Mag is the third Danish F1 driver after Jan and Tom Belsø. I was screaming at the television that he forgot the true great that was Jac Nelleman

And you both forgot Nicolas Kiesa, who drove five rather uneventful races with Minardi in 2003. Although he was so forgettable that I only realised it when I checked Denmark's stats on StatsF1. :lol:

ryangregg12345 · Post by **ryangregg12345** » 16 Mar 2014, 13:41

So, Magnussen's podium makes Denmark the 28th country on a Formula One podium.

pi314159 · Post by **pi314159** » 16 Mar 2014, 13:42

pasta_maldonado wrote:There could be nuclear war and Ricciardo would be smiling!

Still, Ricky's DSQ promotes Magnussen to second, equalling the best ever finish for a rookie (Villeneuve's 2nd in Australia, 97)

You forgot about Giancarlo Baghetti winning his first race.

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 16 Mar 2014, 13:45

pi314159 wrote:
pasta_maldonado wrote:There could be nuclear war and Ricciardo would be smiling!

Still, Ricky's DSQ promotes Magnussen to second, equalling the best ever finish for a rookie (Villeneuve's 2nd in Australia, 97)

You forgot about Giancarlo Baghetti winning his first race.

Oh dear

Baghetti's victory doesnt seem to be that memorable.