Hamilton-Sutil feud?

Post by **Londoner** » 23 Aug 2013, 10:38

Mr Sutil has had another pop at Hamilton recently, telling him that he needs to "grow up". I wonder if this is more fallout from Sutil's court case at the tail end of 2011>

http://www.thenational.ae/sport/formula-one/formula-one-adrian-sutil-tells-lewis-hamilton-to-grow-up

Discuss.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 23 Aug 2013, 11:06

Soft-hands Sutil needs to understand that not everyone wants to seen to be associated with convicted criminals, regardless of past history. He also needs to learn to deflect questions that he is asked about other people and steer questions towards his career, form and prospects.

takagi_for_the_win · Post by **takagi_for_the_win** » 23 Aug 2013, 11:46

Some very cutting comments from Sutil
Really sticking sticking his neck out there...

Post by **mario** » 23 Aug 2013, 12:03

Faustus wrote:Soft-hands Sutil needs to understand that not everyone wants to seen to be associated with convicted criminals, regardless of past history. He also needs to learn to deflect questions that he is asked about other people and steer questions towards his career, form and prospects.

I can see why he might feel somewhat aggrieved if he feels that Hamilton's testimony might have been able to reverse the judgement handed out to him, although given that Hamilton's claim that he did not witness the incident, which appears to be true based on the CCTV footage (which appears to show his bodyguard hauling him out of the club when Sutil and Lux started arguing), it is hard to see what impact he'd have in that sense.

I guess that Sutil probably feels somewhat betrayed by Hamilton over this incident although, as Faustus points out, the nature of Sutil's conviction for assault and actual bodily harm would undoubtedly change Hamilton's perception of Sutil's character and would be hard to overlook. It's equally true that he might be better off looking to his future career rather than dwelling on the past, with a suggestion from Will Buxton that Sutil's seat in F1 is not secure for 2014 (he seems to only have a one year contract, and Butxon has suggested both Bianchi and Calado might be possible alternatives to Sutil in 2014).

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 23 Aug 2013, 12:25

It's the WWE moment, Hamilton turned heel and walked out on his tag-team partner

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 23 Aug 2013, 17:48

Apply cold water to burned area, Lewis.

Sutil was asked about his relationship with Hamilton, so I see no reason why he shouldn't lash out. He wasn't asked about his form, in any case...

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 23 Aug 2013, 20:05

Hamilton is the driver with most feuds of the field. I don't know if he still has a feud with Massa and Alonso.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 23 Aug 2013, 20:17

Dj_bereta wrote:Hamilton is the driver with most feuds of the field. I don't know if he still has a feud with Massa and Alonso.

Don't forget Maldonado, who himself has a feud with Perez. Perez probably has Hamilton's back.

Post by **mario** » 23 Aug 2013, 21:02

Dj_bereta wrote:Hamilton is the driver with most feuds of the field. I don't know if he still has a feud with Massa and Alonso.

In the case of Alonso and Hamilton, although they are not exactly friends, they are not enemies either - Alonso seems to have been angrier with the way that the management of McLaren handled the situation than directly with Hamilton, even if Hamilton wasn't exactly blame free either. However, with both drivers now at different teams and several years having passed, they seem to be on more amicable terms and seem to have more mutual respect for each other, perhaps in part because they feuded in the past.

As for the relationship between Hamilton and Massa, although Massa was frustrated and critical of Hamilton's driving in 2011 after they clashed on track so often, they resolved their differences in the tail end of the 2011 season with a face to face meeting. Since then, as far as I am aware, Massa hasn't clashed with Hamilton on or off the track and doesn't seem to bear any particular ill will towards him, whilst Hamilton similarly doesn't seem to bear any grudge towards Massa. If anything, in these past few years some might argue that Massa has been more focussed on his own seat rather than on other drivers, especially since once again Ferrari seem to have issued him with an ultimatum to pick up his pace in the next few races or be out for good.

Perhaps it is just how I perceive things, but the only two drivers who seem to have a persistently difficult relationship with each other would seem to be Webber and Vettel. Of course, the fact that they are in such close proximity all of the time would probably explain why that relationship is more strained than some others - with most of the more strong willed drivers in different teams, there is probably less opportunity to clash with each other during and between the races.

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 23 Aug 2013, 21:16

Grow up !! Or I'll CUT you! ...Too.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 23 Aug 2013, 21:18

Jocke1 wrote:Grow up !! Or I'll CUT you! ...Too.

... what is Charles Pic doing on the left there?

... at least, I think it's Charles Pic...

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 23 Aug 2013, 22:10

Salamander wrote:
Jocke1 wrote:Grow up !! Or I'll CUT you! ...Too.

... what is Charles Pic doing on the left there?

... at least, I think it's Charles Pic...

Cos he is a driver you certainly don't want to Pic a fight with

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 24 Aug 2013, 01:36

Eh, nothing more than a lover's tiff. A very long one though. So long that the make-up sex will be explosive, that's for sure.

Post by **tommykl** » 25 Aug 2013, 11:37

FullMetalJack wrote:
Dj_bereta wrote:Hamilton is the driver with most feuds of the field. I don't know if he still has a feud with Massa and Alonso.

Don't forget Maldonado, who himself has a feud with Perez. Perez probably has Hamilton's back.

Ahhh, but Pérez has a feud with Räikkönen, who himself has a long-standing history with Adrian Sutil...

roblo97 · Post by **roblo97** » 27 Aug 2013, 17:38

and sutil may even have a fued with Gutierez

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 27 Aug 2013, 17:39

roblomas52 wrote:and sutil may even have a fued with Gutierez

Sutil has a feud with anyone who has a glasscutable neck...

noiceinmydrink · Post by **noiceinmydrink** » 27 Aug 2013, 17:58

Jocke1 wrote:
roblomas52 wrote:and sutil may even have a fued with Gutierez

Sutil has a feud with anyone who has a glasscutable neck...

So... anyone who's not Corey Taylor then.

Go on, Sutil. Try it. I dare you.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 27 Aug 2013, 23:09

Salamander wrote:... at least, I think it's Charles Pic...

I believe it is him. Certainly looks like a Caterham driver in a photo in the Caption This thread, page 128.

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 07 Sep 2013, 12:49

Did Sutil deliberately impede Lewis around parabolica as revenge for this?

apple2009 · Post by **apple2009** » 07 Sep 2013, 12:59

sswishbone wrote:Did Sutil deliberately impede Lewis around parabolica as revenge for this?

Yes. Sutil is an idiot anyway and shouldn't be in F1.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 07 Sep 2013, 13:10

sswishbone wrote:Did Sutil deliberately impede Lewis around parabolica as revenge for this?

Nah, he probably wasnt even aware he was there.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 07 Sep 2013, 13:15

apple2009 wrote:
sswishbone wrote:Did Sutil deliberately impede Lewis around parabolica as revenge for this?

Yes. Sutil is an idiot anyway and shouldn't be in F1.

Sutil is fast and dead unlucky. He is yet to score a podium but he could have about 5 by now.

Germany 2009
Italy 2009
Brazil 2009
Australia 2013
Britain 2013

+ 4th at Monaco 2008

apple2009 · Post by **apple2009** » 07 Sep 2013, 13:16

good_Ralf wrote:
apple2009 wrote:
sswishbone wrote:Did Sutil deliberately impede Lewis around parabolica as revenge for this?

Yes. Sutil is an idiot anyway and shouldn't be in F1.

Sutil is fast and dead unlucky. He is yet to score a podium but he could have about 5 by now.

Germany 2009
Italy 2009
Brazil 2009
Australia 2013
Britain 2013

+ 4th at Monaco 2008

I'm not denying he's a good driver, I just don't think criminals deserve to drive F1 cars.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 07 Sep 2013, 13:18

apple2009 wrote:I'm not denying he's a good driver, I just don't think criminals deserve to drive F1 cars.

Well he's been punished and served his sentence so in the eyes of society thats the end of the matter.

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 07 Sep 2013, 13:20

apple2009 wrote: I just don't think criminals deserve to drive F1 cars.

KalleVRTN · Post by **KalleVRTN** » 07 Sep 2013, 14:20

good_Ralf wrote:
apple2009 wrote:
sswishbone wrote:Did Sutil deliberately impede Lewis around parabolica as revenge for this?

Yes. Sutil is an idiot anyway and shouldn't be in F1.

Sutil is fast and dead unlucky. He is yet to score a podium but he could have about 5 by now.

Germany 2009
Italy 2009
Brazil 2009
Australia 2013
Britain 2013

+ 4th at Monaco 2008

Germany 2009 didn't seem to be a potential podium, but Force India's first points nevertheless (5th to 7th was there for the taking)
Italy 2009 could have been more with a 1-stop strategy :-)

Brazil 2009 might have been the biggest "what could have been" story yet - the car was fast and had Trulli not shot him off the track, then this would have been 3rd at least.
For Australia 2013, I don't see the potential of a podium pace-wise.
But we can add Bahrain to the list: Massa punted Sutil off, he got a puncture and lost about 1min20sec in the process. Then there followed a string of fastest laps and Adrian finished 1min16sec behind the leader. di Resta (4th) showed what was possible.
Britain 2013 - I sweared loudly at the TV as soon as Vettel retired: not because Vettel was out (I definitely enjoyed that :-)

) but where he parked called up the inevitable safety car, which ruined Force India's strategy. 2nd was possible considering Vettel's retirement, or also 3rd if Alonso caught him.

So there were still two very big podium chances, and some more points also went down the crapper due to bad luck (China, Spain...)

(I'm a huge Sutil fan. But even I think he will get a 3-place penalty for tomorrow's race)

wsrgo · Post by **wsrgo** » 07 Sep 2013, 14:49

I still don't get it about Germany 2009. It seemed Sutil's fault to me..Kimi had no space to go..

TheBigJ · Post by **TheBigJ** » 07 Sep 2013, 16:42

Sutil strikes me as a massive dick though. Just his manner of speaking and his posture seems totally arrogant. Then he glassed the Lotus dude.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 07 Sep 2013, 16:44

TheBigJ wrote:Sutil strikes me as a massive dick though. Just his manner of speaking and his posture seems totally arrogant. Then he glassed the Lotus dude.

Looks like Force India's lineup has gone from dull as dishwater to arrogant as hell

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 07 Sep 2013, 16:52

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:
TheBigJ wrote:Sutil strikes me as a massive dick though. Just his manner of speaking and his posture seems totally arrogant. Then he glassed the Lotus dude.

Looks like Force India's lineup has gone from dull as dishwater to arrogant as hell

Maybe, but I agree with Sutil on Hammy. Sutil asked Hammy to testify at his trial, and he refused (they have not spoken since, despite Hammy saying they're "fine"). After Hamilton had talked about how good friends they were Karting together and stuff. Seriously, who turns their back on a bro? If one of my "friends" bailed on me like that, especially if it cost me more than a year's salary like Sutil, I'd be pissed too. Sutil is a dick, but he's right about this.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 07 Sep 2013, 16:59

Wallio wrote:After Hamilton had talked about how good friends they were Karting together and stuff. Seriously, who turns their back on a bro? If one of my "friends" bailed on me like that, especially if it cost me more than a year's salary like Sutil, I'd be pissed too. Sutil is a dick, but he's right about this.

We've had this before on the forum and you're missing a couple of points. Sutil was guilty. Nothing Hamilton could've said or done would've changed that fact. A dozen witnesses saw the incident so the idea of Hamilton being some sort of star witness who could've proved Sutils innocence is insane. Sutils problem seems to be that Hamilton didnt come out and support him either publicly or privately but why support someone who's attacked somebody like that?

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 07 Sep 2013, 17:49

CoopsII wrote:
Wallio wrote:After Hamilton had talked about how good friends they were Karting together and stuff. Seriously, who turns their back on a bro? If one of my "friends" bailed on me like that, especially if it cost me more than a year's salary like Sutil, I'd be pissed too. Sutil is a dick, but he's right about this.

We've had this before on the forum and you're missing a couple of points. Sutil was guilty. Nothing Hamilton could've said or done would've changed that fact. A dozen witnesses saw the incident so the idea of Hamilton being some sort of star witness who could've proved Sutils innocence is insane. Sutils problem seems to be that Hamilton didnt come out and support him either publicly or privately but why support someone who's attacked somebody like that?

Oh I know he was guilty. Still we Americans have a saying "Bros before Hos". If I had been friends with O.J. I'd have testified. Its just basic loyalty and respect. And Lewis knew full well he wouldn't be a "star witness". Sutil just wanted him to testify to his character, something any real friend would do, no questions asked.

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 07 Sep 2013, 18:09

Ever since this whole post-trial-friendship-ending between Sutil & Hamilton, this has been Adrian's favourite band:

apple2009 · Post by **apple2009** » 07 Sep 2013, 19:35

Wallio wrote:
CoopsII wrote:
Wallio wrote:After Hamilton had talked about how good friends they were Karting together and stuff. Seriously, who turns their back on a bro? If one of my "friends" bailed on me like that, especially if it cost me more than a year's salary like Sutil, I'd be pissed too. Sutil is a dick, but he's right about this.

We've had this before on the forum and you're missing a couple of points. Sutil was guilty. Nothing Hamilton could've said or done would've changed that fact. A dozen witnesses saw the incident so the idea of Hamilton being some sort of star witness who could've proved Sutils innocence is insane. Sutils problem seems to be that Hamilton didnt come out and support him either publicly or privately but why support someone who's attacked somebody like that?

Oh I know he was guilty. Still we Americans have a saying "Bros before Hos". If I had been friends with O.J. I'd have testified. Its just basic loyalty and respect. And Lewis knew full well he wouldn't be a "star witness". Sutil just wanted him to testify to his character, something any real friend would do, no questions asked.

This is hilarious. :lol:

I can't figure out if you're actually a gangster or just playing a character.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 07 Sep 2013, 19:40

apple2009 wrote:This is hilarious.

I can't figure out if you're actually a gangster or just playing a character.

Seriously, there's nothing gangster about it. Think about it, if your best friend was on trial for something, anything, and ask you to testify (not perjure mind you, just testify) you seriously wouldn't? Come on, we all would.

apple2009 · Post by **apple2009** » 07 Sep 2013, 19:46

If my friend almost assaulted and almost killed someone that person would no longer be my friend.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 07 Sep 2013, 19:47

apple2009 wrote:If my friend almost assaulted and almost killed someone that person would no longer be my friend.

Lewis is that you?

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 07 Sep 2013, 19:51

apple2009 wrote:I can't figure out if you're actually a gangster or just playing a character.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xpv5q_ ... &start=242

Post by **mario** » 07 Sep 2013, 19:55

Wallio wrote:
CoopsII wrote:
Wallio wrote:After Hamilton had talked about how good friends they were Karting together and stuff. Seriously, who turns their back on a bro? If one of my "friends" bailed on me like that, especially if it cost me more than a year's salary like Sutil, I'd be pissed too. Sutil is a dick, but he's right about this.

We've had this before on the forum and you're missing a couple of points. Sutil was guilty. Nothing Hamilton could've said or done would've changed that fact. A dozen witnesses saw the incident so the idea of Hamilton being some sort of star witness who could've proved Sutils innocence is insane. Sutils problem seems to be that Hamilton didnt come out and support him either publicly or privately but why support someone who's attacked somebody like that?

Oh I know he was guilty. Still we Americans have a saying "Bros before Hos". If I had been friends with O.J. I'd have testified. Its just basic loyalty and respect. And Lewis knew full well he wouldn't be a "star witness". Sutil just wanted him to testify to his character, something any real friend would do, no questions asked.

The reports of the events seem to suggest that Sutil did not ask Hamilton to be a character witness - the reports indicate that he was asked to provide a purely factual account of events that night, which he then provided via his written testimony to the courts. In fact, there are questions over whether, as a private civil action by Lux against Sutil, Hamilton would have been allowed to provide character evidence for Sutil at all - in some jurisdictions character evidence is not always accepted in every instance under civil law (although I am not certain over whether the German legal system would or wouldn't have permitted Hamilton to do that).

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 07 Sep 2013, 20:15

mario wrote:The reports of the events seem to suggest that Sutil did not ask Hamilton to be a character witness - the reports indicate that he was asked to provide a purely factual account of events that night, which he then provided via his written testimony to the courts. In fact, there are questions over whether, as a private civil action by Lux against Sutil, Hamilton would have been allowed to provide character evidence for Sutil at all - in some jurisdictions character evidence is not always accepted in every instance under civil law (although I am not certain over whether the German legal system would or wouldn't have permitted Hamilton to do that).

Ah well, that's different then. Here in America all trials have 1-2 real eyewitnesses and 2-3 DOZEN character witnesses (on both sides!).