ROTR-Germany 2013

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 06 Jul 2013, 12:50

I am absolutely livid with what i've just seen so i'm starting the topic

ROTR at the moment has to be The Idiot that forgot to send Nico Rosberg out again in Q2 He needs to be fired :evil:

Also Force India for being poor going back over the results Force India were the only team other than the "Young" Teams and the lamentable Williams's not to get a car into Q3. Says a lot doesn't it?

And Myself for trying to rival Gunther Schimd's Temper

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 06 Jul 2013, 13:25

Well, it's Saturday. Usually, the award won't be decided before the race. Rosberg's strategist has got a comfortable lead now but it's fairly common the favourite for the award on Saturday won't win it come Sunday.

What do you guys think about Williams out again in Q1? Here's hoping they come back stronger after the summer break.

Rusujuur · Post by **Rusujuur** » 06 Jul 2013, 16:13

Yeah, that call was bad, but I guess they didn't see it coming as I was also thinking why did many of the frontrunners go out and then suddenly the times improved by a country mile for almost everybody. I was dead sure at least RAI would be safe after the first round and asking myself why they sent him out but boy was I wrong...

As of Williams, I have a feeling they have really lost it with this car. When it was unveiled I thought it was a sure winner but it seems that anyone who changed their approach for this year has lost out - Williams, Sauber and Macca all made new cars as opposed to evolving their old model and they are losing out. I can't remember if the Merc is new or an evolution although given their poor pace, their last years car might have been a dud so in their case a new version was in order.

In these early stages I would put my neck on line here and say its HULKENBERG, because he could have beaten the Ferraris and even Ricciardo for 6th but didn't even try. Actually, what just came to mind, last year Q3 had very few qualifiers but this year I think everybody has set a time thus far in Q3 untill now, so is the reason the return to somewhat older spec tyre and it gives an advantage, where it did't before?

roblo97 · Post by **roblo97** » 07 Jul 2013, 12:58

I say the marshalls or the redbull pit crew at the moment

rachel1990 · Post by **rachel1990** » 07 Jul 2013, 13:58

Hmm difficult one today. Several nominations

The stewards who wait till after the race to decide about Di resta. Why????
Mercedes - Fell apart in the race
Lotus's Pit wall.- They could have won the race. Idiots.
Force India- 11th and 13th is not great

But for me it has to go to the Red Bull Pit team who let Mark go too early and could have killed that Camera-man. Hopefully a big punishment is heading their way.

pablo_h · Post by **pablo_h** » 07 Jul 2013, 13:59

1. Webber's pit crew, specifically the RR man. This stuff up injured somebody.
2. Lotus' strategy. Kimi was about 16sec ahead, but they waited until his lead decreased to 9sec before bringing him in. No chance of the lead then, and also had to ruin Grosjean's race because of their poor call.

Shadaza · Post by **Shadaza** » 07 Jul 2013, 14:00

I think a car that had just burst into flames, then rolling down a hill backwards across the track is ROTR.

Bianchi's rogue Marussia takes it.

AustralianStig · Post by **AustralianStig** » 07 Jul 2013, 14:00

The lollipop men - what's up with two unsafe releases in one race...the second of which could have resulted in a fatality?

pablo_h wrote:1. Webber's pit crew, specifically the RR man. This stuff up injured somebody.

Seriously? His gun doesn't work and it's somehow his fault? We saw a lot of the same across all teams with wheel guns not working.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 07 Jul 2013, 14:03

Lets get started.

Force India: No points no Q3 appearance and Mclaren are Much closer to them now. Both cars were just powerless out there

Lotus Strategists: Their errors cost them dearly.

Max Chilton: Sorry but he's been last all weekend and usually by a long way too. Giedo Van der Garde made him look ordinary and that's before i mention what Bianchi and Pic did to him

Red Bull Pit Crew: It's a miracle that the cameraman got away with only minor injuries

The Stewards: Di Resta should have been penalised ASAP

The TV Director: How long did he take to show Webber's pit stop again?

Daniel Ricciardo: Rubbish Race

Bianchi's car: Looked like a ghost took over it

But My ROTR has to be

Williams's Right Front Wheel Gun: Happened on Both cars just when it looked like they were going well for once

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 07 Jul 2013, 14:03

The Stewards - Blatant penalties not handed out in race so they can be reviewed afterwards, what was the point of that?

SgtPepper · Post by **SgtPepper** » 07 Jul 2013, 14:04

roblomas52 wrote:I say the marshalls or the redbull pit crew at the moment

Agree. I can usually tolerate RB constantly sabotaging Webber, but it's taking it too far when a poor cameraman gets taken out too.

Massa for spinning out, although I retract this statement if it turns out it was mechanical, and poor Rosberg's team for costing him a potential front row start (although doubt it would've made any difference considering their appalling race pace).

Feel quite bad for RoGro though, would've loved to see him get his first win, or Kimi. Or anyone else really.

EDIT - Bianchi's car! What a way to go.

Dan B · Post by **Dan B** » 07 Jul 2013, 14:04

This is a tough one to say. On one hand, Nurburgring's track marshalls should get a nomination for leaving the car unattended. Having a dead car roll back into an active race track is incredibly dangerous, and this isn't the first time we have seen incompetence from the Nurburgring (see the 1999 Superbike race, which was one of the most farcical races I have ever seen). On the other hand, Red Bull's pit crew deserve a nomination as well for letting go a driver without a properly secured wheel again, and this time, someone paid the price (the cameraman) though luckily he seemed to be uninjured.

In the end I'm going to nominate Red Bull. The drivers were fine; the cars were fine, but the pit crew completely screwed up.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 07 Jul 2013, 14:06

General pitlane madness: Williams failing at putting a wheel on, RedBull with their attempted murder and Di Resta blatant unsafe release.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 07 Jul 2013, 14:09

Has to go to Felipe Massa, he somehow found a way to completly disappear without a trace. Is that the fourth straight GP where he's had some sort of an accident?

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 07 Jul 2013, 14:13

Lotus Strategists win this out to me. A truly dumb call which most likely cost them a race win.

Dan B · Post by **Dan B** » 07 Jul 2013, 14:15

JeremyMcClean wrote:Has to go to Felipe Massa, he somehow found a way to completly disappear without a trace. Is that the fourth straight GP where he's had some sort of an accident?

Looked like a car failure to me when he spun. Maybe half-shaft but we won't know until Ferrari releases anything.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 07 Jul 2013, 14:17

Dan B wrote:This is a tough one to say. On one hand, Nurburgring's track marshalls should get a nomination for leaving the car unattended

How is it their fault Bianchi parked the car well away from the wall so they couldn't get to it quickly, and on a hill!?

wsrgo · Post by **wsrgo** » 07 Jul 2013, 14:19

Has to be Lotus and their incredibly idiotic strategy of bringing Kimi into the pits. Absolutely no need, Vettel was gaining only a few tenths per lap when he needed over a second. The strategists at Enstone are doing their best to help Raikkonen leave for Red Bull..

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 07 Jul 2013, 14:19

Salamander wrote:
Dan B wrote:This is a tough one to say. On one hand, Nurburgring's track marshalls should get a nomination for leaving the car unattended

How is it their fault Bianchi parked the car well away from the wall so they couldn't get to it quickly, and on a hill!?

In fairness to Bianchi his car was properly on fire, I wouldn't blame him for getting out of it as quickly as possible rather than continuing on to a safer place.

Dan B · Post by **Dan B** » 07 Jul 2013, 14:26

Salamander wrote:
Dan B wrote:This is a tough one to say. On one hand, Nurburgring's track marshalls should get a nomination for leaving the car unattended

How is it their fault Bianchi parked the car well away from the wall so they couldn't get to it quickly, and on a hill!?

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt since his car lit up like a roman candle and he wanted to exit as soon as possible. I'm still going to put the onus on the track marshalls though.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 07 Jul 2013, 14:30

For me Mercedes gets it for losing ground to their rivals. They seemed to be right in the hunt after Britain and looked to have fixed most of their problems but here they were back to having poor race pace.

REJECT OF THE RACE
Mercedes
Poor showing at their home race

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 07 Jul 2013, 14:35

Dan B wrote:
Salamander wrote:
Dan B wrote:This is a tough one to say. On one hand, Nurburgring's track marshalls should get a nomination for leaving the car unattended

How is it their fault Bianchi parked the car well away from the wall so they couldn't get to it quickly, and on a hill!?

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt since his car lit up like a roman candle and he wanted to exit as soon as possible. I'm still going to put the onus on the track marshalls though.

They can't just magically teleport the tractor over there! It takes time to get the equipment ready and out there, and if Bianchi wanted to get out as soon as possible, why didn't he park it before the damn hill!?

The marshals aren't miracle workers, they can't just magically make a car parked on a hill without a handbrake not move, especially if they can't get to it because the driver parked it well away from them.

Dan B · Post by **Dan B** » 07 Jul 2013, 14:57

Salamander wrote:They can't just magically teleport the tractor over there! It takes time to get the equipment ready and out there, and if Bianchi wanted to get out as soon as possible, why didn't he park it before the damn hill!?

The marshals aren't miracle workers, they can't just magically make a car parked on a hill without a handbrake not move, especially if they can't get to it because the driver parked it well away from them.

There should've been marshalls going for the car immediately, dealing with the car. From the replays I have seen, there were no marshalls near the car until the tractor had been taken out.

andrew2209 · Post by **andrew2209** » 07 Jul 2013, 14:58

Surely the marshalls could've put something behind Bianchi's car to stop it rolling?

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 07 Jul 2013, 15:13

Dan B wrote:
Salamander wrote:They can't just magically teleport the tractor over there! It takes time to get the equipment ready and out there, and if Bianchi wanted to get out as soon as possible, why didn't he park it before the damn hill!?

The marshals aren't miracle workers, they can't just magically make a car parked on a hill without a handbrake not move, especially if they can't get to it because the driver parked it well away from them.

There should've been marshalls going for the car immediately, dealing with the car. From the replays I have seen, there were no marshalls near the car until the tractor had been taken out.

Yeah, because Bianchi parked the car right next to the damn track, at the fastest part of the circuit. :roll:

Surely it would've been easier if Bianchi had just been sensible and parked the car before the hill?

andrew2209 wrote:Surely the marshall could've put something behind Bianchi's car to stop it rolling?

Such as?

andrew2209 · Post by **andrew2209** » 07 Jul 2013, 15:17

Salamander wrote:
andrew2209 wrote:Surely the marshall could've put something behind Bianchi's car to stop it rolling?

Such as?

Fair point, although maybe one of the marshalls should've been there to try and push the car, or stop it rolling.

Dan B · Post by **Dan B** » 07 Jul 2013, 15:20

Salamander wrote:Yeah, because Bianchi parked the car right next to the damn track, at the fastest part of the circuit. Surely it would've been easier if Bianchi had just been sensible and parked the car before the hill?

I'm pretty sure when a car is on fire the driver just wants to park it wherever he can and get out of there as soon as possible. Who knows what was going through his head, but really it is the marshalls' job to deal with the car as safely as possible. And from what happened, they failed to do that.

[/quote]

andrew2209 wrote:Surely the marshall could've put something behind Bianchi's car to stop it rolling?

Such as?[/quote]
Chock blocks. If they can hold down the city buses where I live they can surely hold down an F1 car.

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 07 Jul 2013, 15:24

Salamander wrote:
andrew2209 wrote:Surely the marshall could've put something behind Bianchi's car to stop it rolling?

Such as?

Bernie.

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 07 Jul 2013, 15:28

Pit lane madness in general : The loose wheel, Force India's unsafe release, bad strategy calls from a lot of the teams, Williams's dodgy wheel change gear.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 07 Jul 2013, 15:43

Dan B wrote:
Salamander wrote:Yeah, because Bianchi parked the car right next to the damn track, at the fastest part of the circuit. Surely it would've been easier if Bianchi had just been sensible and parked the car before the hill?

I'm pretty sure when a car is on fire the driver just wants to park it wherever he can and get out of there as soon as possible.

So why didn't he park it before the hill!? He just was cruising along off the racing line, smoke pouring out, did he honestly think he was going to make it back to the pits?

Who knows what was going through his head, but really it is the marshalls' job to deal with the car as safely as possible. And from what happened, they failed to do that.

How could they have gotten there faster!? If you're so sure they failed to do their job as well as possible, then what would you have had them do instead?

andrew2209 wrote:Surely the marshall could've put something behind Bianchi's car to stop it rolling?

Such as?

Chock blocks. If they can hold down the city buses where I live they can surely hold down an F1 car.[/quote]
Yes, because all marshal posts have those readily available to deploy at a moment's notice. :roll:

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 07 Jul 2013, 15:46

ROTR-Germany 2013

1.) Vettel not speaking German when Kai Ebel wanted him to. (Show respect to your elders.)

2.) Williams '600' livery. All that hype and it turns out to be even more disappointing than the time when Britney Spears shaved her head and forgot she had children. :roll:

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 07 Jul 2013, 15:47

What if it was no one's fault, and just one of those things? Stuff happens, you know.

Dan B · Post by **Dan B** » 07 Jul 2013, 16:11

Salamander wrote:Yes, because all marshal posts have those readily available to deploy at a moment's notice.

They should. They aren't that big and can easily be carried by one person.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 07 Jul 2013, 16:12

Dan B wrote:
Salamander wrote:Yes, because all marshal posts have those readily available to deploy at a moment's notice.

They should. They aren't that big and can easily be carried by one person.

Because cars rolling away because the driver parked on a hill is a common occurrence.

Dan B · Post by **Dan B** » 07 Jul 2013, 16:24

Salamander wrote:Because cars rolling away because the driver parked on a hill is a common occurrence.

Doesn't mean you shouldn't be prepared for it.

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 07 Jul 2013, 16:41

Many contenders, its difficult to say one. I'm tempted to give my ROTR to Lotus, for using Grosjean as decoy for Raikkonen's sake, but I give it for stewards/marshalls/pit crews.

Special mention for Mercedes for another rubbish race and for Ricciardo, qualify hero to race zero.

CaptainGetz12 · Post by **CaptainGetz12** » 07 Jul 2013, 17:42

I'm giving ROTR to Williams this time. Yes Force India and Lotus had bad pit choices and luck as well (And I would think Lotus could have won it if they pit Kimi either 1-2 laps earlier or not at all), but Williams really can't afford to lose points positions while still being pointless so far this season

To me it looked like the guy on the bacl-right tire had the wrong tools. I know that pitstops are supposed to be split-second affairs, but he shoulve known the process of changing a tire really fast by now. Williams is starting to look more and more like a properly rejectful team to me, making Marussia and Caterham look tame by comparison.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 07 Jul 2013, 17:47

Shadaza wrote:I think a car that had just burst into flames, then rolling down a hill backwards across the track is ROTR.

Bianchi's rogue Marussia takes it.

It's about time Bianchi's Marussia MR-02 gets ROTR after not knowing when to work. Most of the times his car failed have seen flames and this time it was much more dangerous. But I won't mention the car in my top 3 picks.

3. The Lotus Strategists. What the hell was that? You have the car. You have a motivated driver line up. You could have beat Red Bull. And you have nothing to do but watch the race and make rash calls which make you lose epically to Seb.

2. Enoch Yan-tak Law/Toro Rosso. This is a weird call, but you have seemed to cursed a few people. Räikkönen was luckily not cursed not much. JEV was doing so well. And this happens. No offense to our Site Author and Senior Grand Prix Analyst, but this is the way I see. Toro Rosso were crap the whole race. Ricciardo was able to do nothing and a failure for JEV shows his curse beginning.

1. Pit crews. As for Red Bull, this is the last thing Red Bull need. They seem to be the worst liked team since Ferrari dominated the sport with MSC, Multi-21-Gate did nothing good, rash calls, and now THIS. A £30,000 fine was well deserved for the Milton Keynes crew, for the farce tyre change injuring a cameraman and Webber was good enough to finish in the points. Force India's unsafe release got them a £5,000 penalty, which won't do any good PR for them as they have been excellent this year. Williams cost Maldonado a points finish with the front right tyre taking 20 some odd seconds longer than normal, which meant they couldn't score points AGAIN.. Pit crews should take this easily.

Post by **Nuppiz** » 07 Jul 2013, 18:53

Well, looking at all three categories (F1, GP2, GP3), I think the race officialdom takes the cake. The stewards, marshalls and TV director were quite rejectful all weekend.

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 07 Jul 2013, 19:03

AdrianSutil wrote:General pitlane madness: Williams failing at putting a wheel on, RedBull with their attempted murder and Di Resta blatant unsafe release.

Exactly. Can the lollipop man standing slightly to the right in front of the car with the control to the traffic lights in his hands even properly see what's going on at the right rear once the front lifting jack man has turned towards the right side in front of the car which is necessary to pull the lifting jack away to the side? Did he not block the view from the lollipop man towards the right rear?

The moment of comic relief with that Virgin-Manor car rolling backwards down the hill from the Veedol-S down the backstraight deserves an honorary mention, but no more than that.

Here's to a full and quick recovery for the camera man.