Mclaren to run Honda mills in 2015 per BBC

[kevinbotz]

AAAAAAND it's official!

Hehehehehehehe.

I do prefer the sound of "McLaren-Honda" to "McLaren-Mercedes."

[CoopsII]

Presuming he's still with the team it reunites Button with his old Japanese muckers, IIRC Button was quite popular with Honda.

McLaren - CHANGE THE LIVERY FOR 2015! No reds and whites though please, time to begin a new iconography.

[Shizuka]

McLaren - CHANGE THE LIVERY FOR 2015! No reds and whites though please, time to begin a new iconography.

Why not go back to the classic orange livery?

[mario]

AAAAAAND it's official!

Hehehehehehehe.

I do prefer the sound of "McLaren-Honda" to "McLaren-Mercedes."

I wonder if McLaren will try to milk the nostalgia factor as much as possible and return to a classic livery as well? With the partnership with Mercedes ending, there is no incentive to keep the silver livery and Lotus were able to whip up a fair amount of press headlines when they decided to adopt their own interpretation of the JPS livery for their cars (even if they weren't always complimentary). With the media hyping up the nostalgic link between McLaren, Honda and Senna, there might be a desire to revisit the famous white and red livery given that it is so iconic and representative of its era and its success.

It's going to be interesting to see whether Honda can actually produce a competitive engine, though, under the new regulations - Honda may have been competitive in the past when it came to turbo engines, but Renault Sport have indicated that Honda haven't been that active in the post 2014 engine regulation discussions. They are starting some way behind their rivals when it comes to building the engines - the indication from some publications, like Racecar Engineering, is that Honda have only started work on an F1 spec engine within the last 6 to 12 months, whereas Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault started a couple of years ago and have been dyno testing their engines for several months now.

[DanielPT]

AAAAAAND it's official!

An happy guy I am! It is good to see Honda back as engines suppliers, their natural form!

It's going to be interesting to see whether Honda can actually produce a competitive engine, though, under the new regulations - Honda may have been competitive in the past when it came to turbo engines, but Renault Sport have indicated that Honda haven't been that active in the post 2014 engine regulation discussions. They are starting some way behind their rivals when it comes to building the engines - the indication from some publications, like Racecar Engineering, is that Honda have only started work on an F1 spec engine within the last 6 to 12 months, whereas Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault started a couple of years ago and have been dyno testing their engines for several months now.

On the other hand, by starting later, they will be able to watch what the standard is and what the others have done. I am confident that Honda knowns how to build an engine as it managed in the past, although in their most recent F1 guise their lumps weren't much renowned.

[CoopsII]

McLaren - CHANGE THE LIVERY FOR 2015! No reds and whites though please, time to begin a new iconography.

Why not go back to the classic orange livery?

That would get my vote everytime. I guess it will be built around whatever primary sponsors they have for that year. In fact, they'll probably keep the silver and different silver just to annoy.

[DemocalypseNow]

McLaren - CHANGE THE LIVERY FOR 2015! No reds and whites though please, time to begin a new iconography.

Why not go back to the classic orange livery?

That would get my vote everytime. I guess it will be built around whatever primary sponsors they have for that year. In fact, they'll probably keep the silver and different silver just to annoy.

Given the primary sponsor may well be Telmex, perhaps they'll go back to the Löwenbräu livery?

[CoopsII]

Deleted

[Paul Hayes]

Very interesting that this has now been confirmed. Although they do say "never go back", and people expecting a renewed McLaren-Honda domination will probably be disappointed.

[CoopsII]

With the media hyping up the nostalgic link between McLaren, Honda and Senna, there might be a desire to revisit the famous white and red livery given that it is so iconic and representative of its era and its success.

The trouble is I dont think theres anyway of doing the red and white thing without it looking like a massive fag packet on wheels as this guy proves.
http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/res ... -honda.25/

[AustralianStig]

If this is anything to go on it looks like orange is sounding pretty likely...

http://www.givemesport.com/345401-mclar ... nge-livery

[Aerospeed]

Aaand the cat's been let out of the bag...

Am I the only one around here who will miss the McLaren-Mercedes partnership?

[DanielPT]

Now what they only need to do is to find a great driver for this partnership in time for 2015. Maybe Kevin Magnussen, who knows?

Am I the only one around here who will miss the McLaren-Mercedes partnership?

McLaren-Mercedes partnership graced F1 for what will be exactly 20 years and obviously that leave a mark. I will miss it for sure, but not in the immediate.

[mario]

AAAAAAND it's official!

An happy guy I am! It is good to see Honda back as engines suppliers, their natural form!

It's going to be interesting to see whether Honda can actually produce a competitive engine, though, under the new regulations - Honda may have been competitive in the past when it came to turbo engines, but Renault Sport have indicated that Honda haven't been that active in the post 2014 engine regulation discussions. They are starting some way behind their rivals when it comes to building the engines - the indication from some publications, like Racecar Engineering, is that Honda have only started work on an F1 spec engine within the last 6 to 12 months, whereas Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault started a couple of years ago and have been dyno testing their engines for several months now.

On the other hand, by starting later, they will be able to watch what the standard is and what the others have done. I am confident that Honda knowns how to build an engine as it managed in the past, although in their most recent F1 guise their lumps weren't much renowned.

It is possible that this could cut both ways - whilst they may be missing out in development time on the one hand, on the other hand they are likely to have a clearer picture of the state of play come 2015.

I have to partially agree with Paul Hayes, though, that there are probably going to be some quite unrealistic expectations of how this relationship might pan out in the future. After all, whilst their record in the turbo era and the early years of the 3.5L formula that followed was pretty strong, their recent record in F1 has been more mixed - their V10's were fairly decent but not class leading (BMW, Ferrari, Renault and Mercedes were at least comparable and often better), and their V8's were average at best before slowly sliding back down the grid as development slowed.
I cannot see Honda providing McLaren with an engine that would be able to dominate the field, or even necessarily being superior to the Mercedes turbo engine (at least to begin with). That said, what I am happy is that, at the very least, we are seeing a broadening of the engine supply base given that, in recent years, it has been contracting sharply - hopefully, it'll put more pressure on the other engine suppliers to keep the cost of their engines down too.

[kevinbotz]

AAAAAAND it's official!

An happy guy I am! It is good to see Honda back as engines suppliers, their natural form!

It's going to be interesting to see whether Honda can actually produce a competitive engine, though, under the new regulations - Honda may have been competitive in the past when it came to turbo engines, but Renault Sport have indicated that Honda haven't been that active in the post 2014 engine regulation discussions. They are starting some way behind their rivals when it comes to building the engines - the indication from some publications, like Racecar Engineering, is that Honda have only started work on an F1 spec engine within the last 6 to 12 months, whereas Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault started a couple of years ago and have been dyno testing their engines for several months now.

On the other hand, by starting later, they will be able to watch what the standard is and what the others have done. I am confident that Honda knowns how to build an engine as it managed in the past, although in their most recent F1 guise their lumps weren't much renowned.

It is possible that this could cut both ways - whilst they may be missing out in development time on the one hand, on the other hand they are likely to have a clearer picture of the state of play come 2015.

I have to partially agree with Paul Hayes, though, that there are probably going to be some quite unrealistic expectations of how this relationship might pan out in the future. After all, whilst their record in the turbo era and the early years of the 3.5L formula that followed was pretty strong, their recent record in F1 has been more mixed - their V10's were fairly decent but not class leading (BMW, Ferrari, Renault and Mercedes were at least comparable and often better), and their V8's were average at best before slowly sliding back down the grid as development slowed.
I cannot see Honda providing McLaren with an engine that would be able to dominate the field, or even necessarily being superior to the Mercedes turbo engine (at least to begin with). That said, what I am happy is that, at the very least, we are seeing a broadening of the engine supply base given that, in recent years, it has been contracting sharply - hopefully, it'll put more pressure on the other engine suppliers to keep the cost of their engines down too.

I'll admit, most of my excitement derives from nostalgia. I definitely agree that the Honda engines probably won't be produce anything remotely close to the domination they enjoyed back in the late-1980s and the early-1990s.

Nevertheless, I'm happy that McLaren will be a works team again in the not-so distant future. It'll be nice seeing a McLaren-Honda on the grid again.

[Londoner]

Didn't Honda claim their V10s were producing 1000bhp by the final races of 2005? Was this actually true, or just publicocrap to impress people in Japan before the race.

Well, at least this move will finally get rid of the insipid red and silver livery...

[Zetec]

So, if I can judge the situation properly, they have to build the 2014 car around the Mercedes engine and change to whole damn thing for 2015 again.

And what do you guys think about the fact, that McLaren could deliver informations about the 2014 Mercedes engine to Honda for their preparation?

[S951]

reading into it it's not an exclusive deal either so if required Honda would supply another team who would be the likely candidates for this? all talking hypothetically I can see 1 maybe straight away

[Zetec]

Didn't Honda claim their V10s were producing 1000bhp by the final races of 2005?

And I remember a certain Jenson Button, saying: "It's not easy trying to plant this much power onto the circuit."

reading into it it's not an exclusive deal either so if required Honda would supply another team who would be the likely candidates for this? all talking hypothetically I can see 1 maybe straight away

Yes, Honda is open to deliver other teams with engines, if required. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107448

[S951]

Didn't Honda claim their V10s were producing 1000bhp by the final races of 2005?

And I remember a certain Jenson Button, saying: "It's not easy trying to plant this much power onto the circuit."

reading into it it's not an exclusive deal either so if required Honda would supply another team who would be the likely candidates for this? all talking hypothetically I can see 1 maybe straight away

Yes, Honda is open to deliver other teams with engines, if required. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107448

is that a certain brazilian at monaco in your avatar good sir?

[AndreaModa]

We got Williams Renault...

We now have McLaren Honda...

All I'm waiting for now is a moustachioed Brummie to announce his comeback in a Ferrari and we'll be all set!

[mario]

Didn't Honda claim their V10s were producing 1000bhp by the final races of 2005? Was this actually true, or just publicocrap to impress people in Japan before the race.

Well, at least this move will finally get rid of the insipid red and silver livery...

The engine known as the "Suzuka Special", which was used at the tail end of the 2005 season, was supposedly close to 1000bhp (I think the figure is generally around the 985bhp mark), but that was only in the closing stages of that season.
Most of the time, though, it was BMW that was suspected of having the most powerful engines, although they probably didn't have quite the advantage that they had in previous years in 2005 (in part because, with their relationship with Williams being increasingly strained, BMW were perhaps less committed to development than they had been in the past).

So, if I can judge the situation properly, they have to build the 2014 car around the Mercedes engine and change to whole damn thing for 2015 again.

And what do you guys think about the fact, that McLaren could deliver informations about the 2014 Mercedes engine to Honda for their preparation?

That seems to be the case - as a customer team for Mercedes in 2014 they cannot shape the design process of the new engine, whereas they should have more flexibility for 2015.
The impact of that change, though, depends on whether or not the engine regulations are opened up in the future - they are fairly rigid for 2014, so the differences in the packaging of the engines should be small and, in theory, they could probably adapt a 2014 spec chassis for 2015 around the new Honda engine (though it would obviously work better as an integrated package). However, there have been a few indications that they might be relaxed a little for 2015, so we will have to wait and see.

As for information passing from Mercedes to Honda via McLaren, that is something Mercedes have said they are worried about and they will be taking steps to minimise the chances of that happening. Some info might trickle through but I think that it will be limited, especially since, now McLaren are just customers, that Mercedes were already providing more limited technical support and less technical info to McLaren in the first place.

[FullMetalJack]

We got Williams Renault...

We now have McLaren Honda...

All I'm waiting for now is a moustachioed Brummie to announce his comeback in a Ferrari and we'll be all set!

Jack Christopherson may have had a moustache, and he may drive for Ferrari at some point

[takagi_for_the_win]

AAAAAAND it's official!

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

Didn't Honda claim their V10s were producing 1000bhp by the final races of 2005? Was this actually true, or just publicocrap to impress people in Japan before the race.

The engine known as the "Suzuka Special", which was used at the tail end of the 2005 season, was supposedly close to 1000bhp (I think the figure is generally around the 985bhp mark), but that was only in the closing stages of that season.
Most of the time, though, it was BMW that was suspected of having the most powerful engines, although they probably didn't have quite the advantage that they had in previous years in 2005 (in part because, with their relationship with Williams being increasingly strained, BMW were perhaps less committed to development than they had been in the past).

Didn't they produce "Suzuka Specials" every year from 2002 on?

And 2001-2003 was generally when the BMW's were regarded as superior, by 2004 I think most of their advantage had gone.

[CoopsII]

All I'm waiting for now is a moustachioed Brummie to announce his comeback in a Ferrari and we'll be all set!

Dont encourage him.

[mario]

AAAAAAND it's official!

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

Didn't Honda claim their V10s were producing 1000bhp by the final races of 2005? Was this actually true, or just publicocrap to impress people in Japan before the race.

The engine known as the "Suzuka Special", which was used at the tail end of the 2005 season, was supposedly close to 1000bhp (I think the figure is generally around the 985bhp mark), but that was only in the closing stages of that season.
Most of the time, though, it was BMW that was suspected of having the most powerful engines, although they probably didn't have quite the advantage that they had in previous years in 2005 (in part because, with their relationship with Williams being increasingly strained, BMW were perhaps less committed to development than they had been in the past).

Didn't they produce "Suzuka Specials" every year from 2002 on?

And 2001-2003 was generally when the BMW's were regarded as superior, by 2004 I think most of their advantage had gone.

It is a little unclear whether or not BMW did or did not maintain its advantage into 2004, but they were probably, at the very least, on equal terms with their rivals. It is true that, in 2005, Williams did at the time complain about a lack of development by BMW, although that seems to have been in part because BMW were caught out by the late change in engine regulations (the requirement to last two race weekends) and the P85, the engine they had wanted to use for 2005, wasn't capable of lasting for two race weekends, hence the hybrid P84/5 (a modified version of the P84 engine that was durable enough).
Even so, that engine was, on paper, still pretty potent - I believe that BMW claimed a power output of around 950bhp, which was still comparable to their rivals. One of the other advantages that BMW had over its rivals was that BMW possibly had the lightest engine on the grid at the time - they claimed that their 2004 engine weighed in at 89kg, and as far as I am aware none of their rivals were able to get below 90kg.

One other interesting question might also be how well some of those outfits dealt with the power losses associated with wear and tear, given that 2004 saw the first longer life engine (lasting an entire race weekend) and 2005 saw that rise to two race weekends. Whilst it did hit BMW to some extent, Honda also struggled in the early stages of 2005, so there is the interesting question of how quickly the engines lost power and whether Honda could maintain that power output for long over a race weekend. Even now, with engine optimised for a longer life, Ferrari reckons that they lose about 5bhp over the course of a race weekend due to wear and tear, and power losses probably would have been more severe back in 2005 when the manufacturers were still adapting to the new lifespan requirements.

[Zetec]

is that a certain brazilian at monaco in your avatar good sir?

Well, he is from Brazil, it is Monaco, in a Tyrrell, spinning into the armco barrier, then leaves F1 and wins the Porsche GT3 Cup Brasil in 2010 or 2011 I think. And then bough his old Footwork FA17 (but never raced it in BossGP like he intended to do).
Rosset Ricardo he shall be called. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym0WAZ2ea3s

[mediocre]

Nicolas Prost and Bruno Senna as driver line-up — make it happen!

[madmark1974]

Nicolas Prost and Bruno Senna as driver line-up — make it happen!

Strangely appropriate that our user named 'mediocre' posted that ...

[James1978]

I bet Lewis Hamilton is desperate to go back there once his Merc contract is up............

[Benetton]

This is really good news for the sport! Hopefully Lotus switch to Honda as well. Then we'll have McLaren-Honda and Lotus-Honda

[Onxy Wrecked]

Very interesting that this has now been confirmed. Although they do say "never go back", and people expecting a renewed McLaren-Honda domination will probably be disappointed.

The Hondas have been less than impressive in IndyCar this season so I wouldn't have high hopes for this combo.

[FullMetalJack]

This is really good news for the sport! Hopefully Lotus switch to Honda as well. Then we'll have McLaren-Honda and Lotus-Honda

Let's have Lotus Lamborghini instead. Bring back Lambo engines!

[go_Rubens]

This is really good news for the sport! Hopefully Lotus switch to Honda as well. Then we'll have McLaren-Honda and Lotus-Honda

Let's have Lotus Lamborghini instead. Bring back Lambo engines!

Not to burst your bubble or anything, but I don't think Lambo is into 6 cylinder engines.

[James1978]

Lotus-Judd.

When I got into F1 in the early 90s, I thought the name "Judd" sounded hilarious for an engine when it was up against well-known motoring companies like Honda, Renault, Ford and Ferrari, not knowing it was actually someone's name!

I was even more stunned when I learned a top team like Williams had used them in 1988!

[mediocre]

I was even more stunned when I learned a top team like Williams had used them in 1988!

And failed hard.

[FullMetalJack]

This is really good news for the sport! Hopefully Lotus switch to Honda as well. Then we'll have McLaren-Honda and Lotus-Honda

Let's have Lotus Lamborghini instead. Bring back Lambo engines!

Not to burst your bubble or anything, but I don't think Lambo is into 6 cylinder engines.

Let a man dream, although in reality you're probably right.

[WaffleCat]

Let's have Lotus Lamborghini instead. Bring back Lambo engines!

Not to burst your bubble or anything, but I don't think Lambo is into 6 cylinder engines.

Let a man dream, although in reality you're probably right.

For all you know,they'll do a "Reverse Porsche",in which they take one of their V12s and cut it into two and add a turbo and voila.

[tommykl]

Lotus-Judd.

When I got into F1 in the early 90s, I thought the name "Judd" sounded hilarious for an engine when it was up against well-known motoring companies like Honda, Renault, Ford and Ferrari, not knowing it was actually someone's name!

I was even more stunned when I learned a top team like Williams had used them in 1988!

...and then later you learned that Honda, Renault, Ford and Ferrari were also someone's name

[Divina_Galica]

We got Williams Renault...

We now have McLaren Honda...

All I'm waiting for now is a moustachioed Brummie to announce his comeback in a Ferrari and we'll be all set!

Can cars be that wide these days??

DG