Your Reject of the Race - Bahrain

noshpit · Post by **noshpit** » 19 Apr 2009, 12:35

Who will your reject of the race be ?

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 19 Apr 2009, 13:22

Isn't this a bit too... early?
Well the Chinese GP ROTR thread started on the Thursday before the Chinese GP but this is just crazy
I vote you to get ROTR for starting this so damn early :lol:

Nin13 · Post by **Nin13** » 19 Apr 2009, 13:33

It will be Bahrain weather, sand storm............. :twisted:

Kuwashima · Post by **Kuwashima** » 19 Apr 2009, 13:54

Agreed that this is a bit early!! I love speculation as much as the next bloke, but let's keep this until at least the race weekend's begun!

Will unlock on Friday...

Kuwashima · Post by **Kuwashima** » 24 Apr 2009, 10:57

Righty-oh - well the race weekend is on. Ergo - this thread is unlocked.

Future threads on ROTR will be started by Captain Hammer.

For now, noone's stood up yet, and I hope no-one will until Sunday!

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 24 Apr 2009, 12:24

Kuwashima wrote:For now, noone's stood up yet, and I hope no-one will until Sunday!

I don't know ... if this current practice session were the end og Q1 tomorrow, we'd see Kubica, Massa, Kovalainen, Heidfeld an Raikkonen out. Yeah, Ferrari deserve it at this present juncture, assuming the didn't win it for China (but I think Briatore should have gotten that one).

DP-Future F1 Reject · Post by **DP-Future F1 Reject** » 24 Apr 2009, 22:10

I mean this is easy right...Nelsinho!

I saw practice and he spun, went off the road, and passed the pit exit with a shower of sparks emanating from a broken front wing. He's a complete disaster right now and an F1 reject poster boy, what with Alonso getting on so much faster and the pressure from Briatore etc. etc.

I feel bad for the poor kid and all the pressure he is under right now, as bad as you can feel for a millionaire playboy who drives in the top racing league in the world.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 25 Apr 2009, 00:07

DP-Future F1 Reject wrote:I mean this is easy right...Nelsinho!

I saw practice and he spun, went off the road, and passed the pit exit with a shower of sparks emanating from a broken front wing. He's a complete disaster right now and an F1 reject poster boy, what with Alonso getting on so much faster and the pressure from Briatore etc. etc.

I feel bad for the poor kid and all the pressure he is under right now, as bad as you can feel for a millionaire playboy who drives in the top racing league in the world.

I won't comment on the cause of the wing loss, it happens; the depressing thing is the team had to tell him on the radio to go slower because his wing was dangling and might fall off.

StoneColdSpider · Post by **StoneColdSpider** » 25 Apr 2009, 04:43

yeah my money is on Piquet Jr as well....
he could b heading for a hat-trick in Spain

RejectSteve · Post by **RejectSteve** » 25 Apr 2009, 05:06

DP-Future F1 Reject wrote:I mean this is easy right...Nelsinho!

I saw practice and he spun, went off the road, and passed the pit exit with a shower of sparks emanating from a broken front wing. He's a complete disaster right now and an F1 reject poster boy, what with Alonso getting on so much faster and the pressure from Briatore etc. etc.

I feel bad for the poor kid and all the pressure he is under right now, as bad as you can feel for a millionaire playboy who drives in the top racing league in the world.

I don't recall the spin. As I remember, the wing simply clipped a kerb and dislodged itself from the pylon. Piquet is at a Murphy's Law point. Time to bring in that inexperienced blonde-dyed Japanese chap, what was his name, Hideki Noda?

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 25 Apr 2009, 12:34

After seeing the qualifying results, I'm going to nomiate KERS as a potential Reject of the Race. Kubica is now carrying it, but I have no idea about Alonso and the Ferraris and whether they're using it - but the best a KERS car could manage was fourth in the hands of Hamilton. Massa was eighth, Raikkonen tenth, Kovalainen eleventh, Kubica thirteenth and Heidfeld fourteenth. It's hardly the revolution it was made out to be, it's bloody expensive to develop, drivers have been admitting they don't use it, and now FOTA are seeking to get the system banned for 2010. All in all, the FIA encouraged the teams to invest heavily in what has turned out to be a total white elephant.

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 25 Apr 2009, 12:57

Isn't 4th for Hamilton the best quali result for a KERS car to date? The KERS cars are going just as well here as they have anywhere else - if anything they're doing a bit better. Therefore not the most obvious candidate so far, I must admit.

Besides, there's a very good article on autosport.com (for subscribers) by Mark Hughes which makes the point that so far the cars running KERS are poor-handling machines without the benefit of the double-decker diffuser. Once McLaren, Ferrari, BMW et al introduce DDDs, then there will be a more even comparison with the Brawns, Toyotas and Williams to see whether or not KERS really has much of an effect.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 25 Apr 2009, 13:03

Speaking of Kubica and BMW Sauber I nominate them for ROTR... I mean 2 flash fires on the SAME CAR in 1 Qualifying Session (one in Q1 and one in Q2)

They obviously haven't learnt from their China hopelessness :roll:

BMW is looking like a very lost cause right now

Kuwashima · Post by **Kuwashima** » 25 Apr 2009, 14:49

Hot damn. Well currently on the ROTR nominations, it's Sutil 1st and DAYLIGHT second.

Mark's race now compromised...! Sutil moved off line too late, and so Mark had already moved to overtaken him and hence had to go further. A comedy of errors.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 25 Apr 2009, 15:02

Sutil really did mess up big time. At least he was apologetic enough and admitted the error. That won't help Webber, of course.

As for KERS, in a circuit like Bahrain, we might see the KERS-equipped cars overtaking the field much easier. Race pace is more about power than ultimate cornering performance, I suspect.

And, excuse me for being a part of the bandwagon, but isn't this result showcasing how really good Hamilton is when is not whining and pretending to be holier than everyone else? I reckon if he passes and stays ahead of Button tomorrow, old Jenson will get so depressed he won't recover for 3 races. Lewis' character-building season is going well, I believe.

noshpit · Post by **noshpit** » 26 Apr 2009, 13:21

i think that bmw sauber should get rotr. both finished / are way down the grid and kubica has had twice as many spins as piquet.
what ever happened to the massive performance they were boasting about in the pre season

Henrique · Post by **Henrique** » 26 Apr 2009, 13:42

Agreed. Epic fail for BMW. Incredibly bad performance for a team that's used to fight for top places.

rffp · Post by **rffp** » 26 Apr 2009, 13:47

BMW Sauber for dislodging Force India!

LukeB · Post by **LukeB** » 26 Apr 2009, 14:06

KERS for culminative fail over the first 4 fly-away races. Of the 8 cars with it this race 5 finished outside the points. I count 25 starts for KERS so far this season and only 9 points finishes.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 26 Apr 2009, 15:07

Fisichella for driving like an idiot, in the incidents with Massa and Button.

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 26 Apr 2009, 16:33

OK, so the race is run. Congrats to Jenson Button once again on a good race won on track, as opposed to in the pits.
But this thread doesn't exist to talk about the glory alone, but rather about a special kind of glory instead: ROTR.

There have been quite a few reject-worthy statements made during this weekend. Sutil blocking Mark Webber on his flying lap and pushing Webber to P19 in qualifying was the first one. Sutil duly apologized and the stewards agreed with him there, taking off 3 grid spots from his P16 qualifying position, which put him just behind Mark Webber. But still, Sutil found himself ahead of Sebastien Bourdais on the grid. The latter was again in the slipstream of his teammate, and generally went unnoticed. But down to low expectations, he doesn't get the award just yet. After all, the straight-sharp corner-straight-sharp corner-etc. type of track that is located in the Sakhir desert has proven to be a kind of track to which Bourdais' driving style isn't suited too well.
Our 2nd favourite campaigner for the award at season's end, Nelsinho (why is it that Brazilian F1 drivers always have surnames, whereas Brazilian football/soccer stars don't? That would sound so much in the commentary: Nelsinho, Rubinho, Fisico ... oh, wait, he's not Brazilian) ... Anyway, Nelsinho actually made use of his Renault's KERS quite well and I think he did a good job especially in holding people off from overtaking him during the race. No points, but it was some kind of a response to the award he earned at the last round. Wasn't it at the 1st corner when Felipe Massa ruined his front wing and his own race, so much that later on, he had to kick the Force 1ndia of Fisico in the side, going into Turn 11? That performance must have not quite impressed il Conte Di Montezemolo (Is he a Conte or what title does he have?)
The hard tyres not working on the Toyota during the 2nd stint would be another good candidate, because it effectively let go to naught their double pole and their expensive winter testing effort at Sakhir when they were infamously sandblasted off the track whilst there together with Ferrari and BMW Sauber.
I must talk BMW Sauber now, and it's not nice, I'm afraid. On German TV, they interviewed Heidfeld before the race and he said that they had gotten a weather prediction on Saturday that the wind would turn during the race, which later it didn't. Of course, on Saturday, teams have to finalize their gearshift settings for the race or go back 5 grid spots. And Heidfeld told the interviewer that they were having the problem of always getting into the rev limiter because of their gearshift settings that were calculated expecting wind from a different direction. If that is publicocrap or not, everyone must decide for themselves. But being a longtime BMW Sauber supporter, even I think it's time to give them a wakeup-call, to give them the wind from the opposite direction that they so much craved for during the race, to hand the team BMW Sauber the ROTR award for Bahrain 2009 for scoring last and 2nd last. They raced with KERS on board but couldn't make any use of it because they were already in the rev limiter. Sorry guys, but I think the choice is obvious.

Ross Prawn · Post by **Ross Prawn** » 26 Apr 2009, 16:34

Has to be BMW. Amazingly feeble performance.

Or Luca Di Montezumolo for not turning up in costume.

nit · Post by **nit** » 26 Apr 2009, 17:13

simple BMW from pole last year to last, i think that says it all

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 26 Apr 2009, 17:17

BMW Sauber seem to have been rejectful this weekend - the fires in qualifing then being the last two finishers in a race of only one retirement (whom they were running behind anyway). Possibly also Toyota for throwing away a potential double podium, victory even?

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 26 Apr 2009, 17:46

Ross Prawn wrote:Has to be BMW. Amazingly feeble performance.

Or Luca Di Montezumolo for not turning up in costume.

Agree on both accounts! :lol:

Seriously, between Sutil and Bimmer, one of them is going to have it. Kovalainen surprised me for being slow all weekend, but he's in the same situation as Piquet: crappy car and a team mate that makes him look slower than he is.

Chilled Phill · Post by **Chilled Phill** » 26 Apr 2009, 18:05

Tough, tbh.

BMW Sauber are up there, although one could argue the point for Toyota. Taking out inexperience, they threw away a very strong position other teams would capitalise on. Moving over to the harder tyre during the second stint was a gamble that didn't really pay off for Glock and partly did for Trulli. BMW Sauber certainly a match for that with a midfield qualification and at the end, bar Nakajima, last. Speaking of which, surely the only retirement of the race in Kazuki should get an honourable mention too, granted due to mechanical failure but still... :lol:

Nin13 · Post by **Nin13** » 26 Apr 2009, 18:44

Piquet Jr. :evil:

Henrique · Post by **Henrique** » 26 Apr 2009, 18:55

Yannick wrote:Anyway, Nelsinho actually made use of his Renault's KERS quite well and I think he did a good job especially in holding people off from overtaking him during the race.

My favorite part of the race was when Barrichello was trying to pass him and Nelsinho used his KERS to avoid it. Barrichello raised his hand at Piquet at least twice :lol:

watka · Post by **watka** » 26 Apr 2009, 19:21

It's got to be BMW I'm afraid, and at this rate I really can't see Kubica being their next season.

Toyota though were really disappointing. I thought they would have the pace, but again it turned out that their cars were light fuelled and Trulli did his usual trick of stopping early and becoming a mobile road block for the middle stint, which also ruined Vettel's race (not that I'm complained cos I'm a Button fan). Glock meanwhile, was nowhere, don't know if he had a problem or what.

Alianora La Canta · Post by **Alianora La Canta** » 26 Apr 2009, 19:23

I'm going for Nakajima for spinning Kubica, but to be fair to him it was hard for me to pick a Reject of the Race as nobody made a total fool of themselves.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 26 Apr 2009, 20:20

BMW by a country mile. If Barcelona doesn't turn up anything for them, then this year is going to be a lost cause.

Debaser · Post by **Debaser** » 26 Apr 2009, 20:46

Fernando Alonso's drink bottle, meaning he took on no fluid inside the car and fainted after the race (Find the story on another website I dunno where a link for that story is).

donald29 · Post by **donald29** » 26 Apr 2009, 20:57

BMW for obvious reasons, they were piss poor if I'm honest, really falling behind now.

If not them, Nakajima for being off Rosberg's pace once more, for spinning Kubica and then for being the only retirement.

KSvt · Post by **KSvt** » 26 Apr 2009, 23:11

BMW Sauber, based on performance. Toyota based on expectations--I can't help thinking that if they couldn't win this race, they just can't win a race. I'm not sure any individual deserves a mention as a reject in this race except Nakajima. And surely Williams is heading straight for a future ROTR (or season?) for pissing away whatever "super diffuser" edge it had at the start of the season. Looks like yet another year of disappointing results as the team slips ever closer to a fate like Jordan's.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 26 Apr 2009, 23:16

ROTR in my opinion is BMW: Gave up on last year's championship to finish 18th and 19th.
A honourable mention should go to Massa's KERS system, Sutil (Although he did somewhat make it up in the race) and Williams' lack of race pace and reliability (Nakajima's DNF was because of some sort of engine issue. Something to do with oil pressure to be exact)

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 26 Apr 2009, 23:51

I'm going to suggest Toyota for throwing away what had been a golden opportunity and the breakthrough they had been after for years. At the end, Jarno Trulli couldn't even catch Sebastian Vettel despite being on the better tyre.

Nin13 wrote:Piquet Jr.

He did nothing wrong! Sure, he didn't finish in the points, but he did make the top ten and held off a late charge by Mark Webber.

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 26 Apr 2009, 23:59

Captain Hammer wrote:I'm going to suggest Toyota for throwing away what had been a golden opportunity and the breakthrough they had been after for years. At the end, Jarno Trulli couldn't even catch Sebastian Vettel despite being on the better tyre.
Nin13 wrote:Piquet Jr.

He did nothing wrong! Sure, he didn't finish in the points, but he did make the top ten and held off a late charge by Mark Webber.

Agree completely. Nelsinho definitely not in contention for ROTR. Although he, Bourdais, Williams (the free practice kings), BMW and Ferrari currently making early claims for ROTY.

I think everyone's nailed the three big candidates for ROTR so far: Sutil, BMW and Toyota. I'm surprised more aren't suggesting Toyota - going onto the harder tyres mid-race was a strategic stuff-up of race-losing proportions - literally.

Keep the suggestions coming though ... more food for thought before Jamie and I make our final judgments ...

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 27 Apr 2009, 00:18

I think that's part of the problem: people are biased against Piquet because he's Piquet, even when he hasn't done anything wrong. Tenth place was a pretty solid drive in a car that has been less-than-spectacular; if he can repeat that in Spain and Monaco, he should at least be able to keep his seat for the time being. He needs to concentrate on the short-term right now, because without it, there is no long-term. Some people want him out of the sport, but as Brundle commented on the grid, Piquet is essentially the same driver he has been for the past three years. This ultimatum from Renault could be what he needs to light a fire under his belly and start getting some results.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 27 Apr 2009, 00:28

You nailed that right on the head Captain.
Piquet did nothing reject worthy as some people have already said. He even managed to keep the Brawn of Barrichello behind him for a few laps.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the call to put Barrichello on a three stopper. If he had been on a 2 stopper he might have had the pace to leapfrog Hamilton, Trulli and Vettel

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 27 Apr 2009, 03:07

I don't think Barrichello is deserving of reject status, because changing your pit strategy is a risk that people take, and this wouldn't be the first time it didn't pay off the way it was intended to. Sure, it wasn't the greatest move to begin with, but in light of Sutil blocking Webber (which wasn't really a big deal to anyone but the Australian commentators who felt the stewards should have made an exemption and allowed Webber into Q2 beause Sutil's move cost him a sure victroy ... honestly, these guys should be Reject of the Year material), Toyota throwing away their most promising race in years, BMW languishing around in last an second-last, the general anti-climax that has been KERS (but then the Ferraris, McLarens, Renaults and BMWs are four of the worst cars on the grid) and possibly the Sakhir circuit producing yet another less-than-exciting race, Barrichello's three-stop gamble failing to pay off barely even rates a mention.

eytl wrote:I'm surprised more aren't suggesting Toyota - going onto the harder tyres mid-race was a strategic stuff-up of race-losing proportions - literally.

I don't think you can really fault Toyota's way of thinking there. The theory was pretty obvious: get Trulli and Glock out on the harder compund early so that when they do their final stint, they're running the softer option when everyone else has to put up with the harder compound. After all, Kubica was armed with dfferent tyres to Vettel and Button in Melbourne during the final stint and damn near caught both of them; he may well have challenged for the lead if it weren't for his coming-together with Vettel. Glock chanced intermediates in Malaysia when everyone went straight to the extreme wets, and look how quickly he reeled Button in. If the race had gone on for a few more laps, the end result would probably have been a Toyota on the top tier of the podium. The theory is sound, but the execution in this case was lacking. Trulli's inability to pass Vettel while on softer tyres is more of a testament to Vettel's ability as a driver than Toyota's incompetence. If Toyota get Reject of the Race, it should be because they were in a position to control the race, but folded at the first sight of Jenson Button.