2012 Brazilian Grand Prix discussion thread

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:12

Nice end to the season with a nice race. Shame that the Hulk can't win, he did a imprevisive job. He was clearly the best driver of the middle to end of the season and he deserves a better car. He also destroyed Di Resta in the end of the season. Also, congratulations to Kobayashi, a very nice race in a car that isn't good in this track. He finished the championship only 6 points behind Perez. Sauber will regret dumping him in favour of Gutierrez.

I don't like much Vettel, but he deserved the title. Let's say the truth, Alonso was helped outside of the track by Stewards decisions in some moments of the championship. The first help was the Yellow Flag in European GP and now, he had a little help with the Hulk Drive Through in a crash that is a purely racing incident. Because of this help, I don't think Alonso deserved more this title than Vettel. Alonso did a great job in this year, but he threw your title in the trash with your crash with kimi in suzuka, in a critical moment of the championship. Also, he got beaten by Massa in the last races, or in qualify, or in the race. Amazing first half, not so good second.

I think also, Hamilton deserved this title much more than Alonso and Vettel, but he had a very unlucky season.

I hope in 2013 season, this fights in the track get even better and the stewards stop with this sillys actions. And the most important, I hope to see Massa fighting for the championship.

GwilymJJames · Post by **GwilymJJames** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:14

I'm gonna say something that it appears the rest of the forum won't like, but it's true.

Sebastian deserved to win this year.

As he did last year.
And the year before.

And he deserves to be a triple world champion.

Because he is.

TheBigJ · Post by **TheBigJ** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:15

I can't stress the fact that Vettel is really just baby Schumi and is ruining the sport.

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:16

macherone wrote:
pasta_maldonado wrote:Thirded. Vettel has to be the most lucky, the most arrogant, the most undeserving triple, no even double world champion that the sport has ever seen! He DID NOT deserve this title. Forget FIArarri, it's blantantly FIA Red Bull. How can one man be so lucky? Anyone in this sport who is considered great has either been a fantastic yet unlucky driver or a fantastic driver. Michael Schumacher - had to fight for 1994, 1995, lost out in 1997, fought for 2000, 2003, and drove superbly in 2006. Senna - fought for all his titles, superb driver. Mansell - Twice denied titles in his hand tha he worked relentlessly for. Prost - Speed undenied. Fangio - Undeniable greatness. Moss - master of things with wheels. Scheckter- Won in a friggin' Wolf. Hakkinen - fought extremely hard for '98 and '99. Montoya - Simply astounded everyone with amazing overtakes. Lauda- almost died, carried on, won in his comeback. Alonso - 2005 and 2006 great driving, fought so hard in 2007, 2010 and 2012. Button - matured with age. But what about Vettel? What qualities does he possess? None. He's not even nice OFF the track.

I don't know if I could take a 2014 Vettel walk over, because he DOES NOT DESERVE TO BE A TRIPLE OR QUADRUPLE WORLD CHAMPION, ESPECIALLY IN A ROW.

End of rant, except for one last thing. Somehow, I'll always love the sport.

It's amazing you pick Montoya between the F1 greats.

Anyway, I think Vettel does deserve credit for his 2010 title. And damn, you say "Scheckter won in a Wolf", Seb did win in a Toro Rosso. The luck is there, but only if you're able to fight for it.

But still, it could be better for everyone if Vettel starts to lose sometimes. This and Canada 11 make me think he is sometimes unable to cope with the pressure...

Well, you're right - I forgot about 2010, I do givce Vettel credit because he really had to work for that one. For me, winning in a Wolf is much harder than winning in a Toro Rosso because although the Wolf was a better car (possibly) in reletive terms to the Toro Rosso, Scheckter won twice in the dry to finish in the top 5 of the championship that year, while Vettel won once in changeable conditions in a car that was closer to the pace of the fastest car than the Wolf was.

And Montoya's one of my all-time favourite drivers, he probably doesn't deserve to be associated with the 'great' tag but I always liked him especially in the Williams. :lol:

pi314159 · Post by **pi314159** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:20

Vettel absolutely deserved his 2010 and 2012 titles. He didn't have a superior car in these two (this year between Singapore and Austin). And I think he also deserves his 2011 title. That was a bit like Mansell in 1992, where he had the best car, but also was clearly ahead of his teammate.

14 Hundred Hours · Post by **14 Hundred Hours** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:21

"Jake promises to reveal who will be his replacement on the BBC F1 coverage next season and then the camera spins round to focus on F1 chief Bernie Ecclestone who says: "See you next year with F1 on the BBC". Now that would be quite something...if it were true!"

Please don't be true.

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:24

well for us americans this means farwell to SPEED channel and to Bob Varsha. in my eyes, the greatest announcer to ever grace a formula one broadcast.

Ferrarist · Post by **Ferrarist** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:24

TheBigJ wrote:I can't stress the fact that Vettel is really just baby Schumi and is ruining the sport.

Not (just) him, but Red Bull as a whole. Ferrari has at least tradition and passion for this sport. Red Bull has just the same attitude to F1, which they have at football. They just create one soulless marketing team after marketing team, just to rip off their idiotic customers, who are conditioned to think of Red Bull as "cool", thus pumping more money into Red Bull's pockets.

And if Alonso and Button leave this sport, so will I. I won't sit around seeing Vettel and Red Bull dominate year after year. I've already had enough of it during Schumacher's years at Ferrari.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:28

Can Ferrari appeal this? They might acutally have a case. It's 50/50. Vettel lined Kobayashi up in the green flag zone but was alongside him in a yellow flag zone. It's a really close call...

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:29

kostas22 wrote:Can Ferrari appeal this? They might acutally have a case. It's 50/50. Vettel lined Kobayashi up in the green flag zone but was alongside him in a yellow flag zone. It's a really close call...

It was a yellow/red oil flag not a yellow flag. Pat Fry has even said this.

Gerudo Dragon · Post by **Gerudo Dragon** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:30

I hope Button somehow gets disqualified. Somehow.

Aerond · Post by **Aerond** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:30

As much as I can't help being biased towards Alonso, I think that if Vettel won is because he deserved it and that's it, the same if it had been the other way around.

Now, that said, on the way home I was thinking how Alonso has lost three world championships because of just one driving mistake (2007 in Japan where he lost control under the rain in Fuji, 2010 when he binned it in Belgium and this year in Suzuka). That doesn't stop from being the best overall driver in the field.

GwilymJJames · Post by **GwilymJJames** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:30

kostas22 wrote:Can Ferrari appeal this? They might acutally have a case. It's 50/50. Vettel lined Kobayashi up in the green flag zone but was alongside him in a yellow flag zone. It's a really close call...

Well given that Pat Fry went on Sky Sports F1 and said it was a yellow-and-red flag, they might struggle to find a case.

JJMonty · Post by **JJMonty** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:31

It's a bloody Red/Yellow striped flag light!!!

I really can't believe SkySports are s**t stiring this as much as possible, Pat Fry has already confirmed this!!! :evil:

Benetton · Post by **Benetton** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:32

I really can't swallow the Hulkenberg penalty! He spins out in the rain. Doesn't warrant a DT. Maldonado crashed into Perez in Silverstone and into Hamilton in Valencia, both on a bone dry circuit, and got absolutely nothing. Force India should appeal their penalty if anything!

With the same logic, Vettel should get a penalty for crashing into Bruno at the start!

Pedestrian · Post by **Pedestrian** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:36

Ferrarist wrote:
TheBigJ wrote:I can't stress the fact that Vettel is really just baby Schumi and is ruining the sport.

Not (just) him, but Red Bull as a whole. Ferrari has at least tradition and passion for this sport. Red Bull has just the same attitude to F1, which they have at football.

To be fair, it's not Red Bull's fault thei are winning. It's the fault of the other "tradition" teams that they keep loosing to a fizzy drinks manufacturer.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:37

Hahaha, oh my HWNSNBM, this is hilarious. All that rage about Vettel overcoming the odds posed by Senna going full retard in lap 1 and Red Bull's strategists apparentely mixing their drink with too much vodka. You just cannot handle the GOAT swag that certain drivers, like Vettel, bring to the table. I for my part am going to be content with enjoying how this exciting finale has turned out and laughing about some of you silly lads.

Oh, and of course...

Post by **Nuppiz** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:39

I wasn't surprised to see the barrage of anti-Vettel posts here again...

I'm not going to comment who was the more deserving person to win the title, because quite frankly the battle came down to my two least favorite drivers. Fact is, Vettel won, and he didn't break the rules in this GP despite the suspicious-looking overtake on Kobayashi (which was actually under the slippery conditions flag, end of discussion).

The race was very exciting, and now I definitely know which GP I'll vote as my favorite in the Forum Awards. The last lap under the safety car was somewhat anti-climactic, but throughout the rest of the race I was kept on my toes to see who finishes and where. Nice to see the "new" teams dicing it in the points for a while, and Petrov eventually robbing the 10th place in the CC back with Caterham's best result ever.

Also, Kimi's adventures on the old track :lol:

And wut, Vettel crashed into Senna? I perceived it the other way around, he had no chance to know that Senna would divebomb like that!

Benetton · Post by **Benetton** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:40

Klon wrote:Senna going full retard in lap 1

What? The reason Vettel spun was that he turned into Senna!

I have nothing against Vettel. He drove admirably today after his car was quite badly battered. The issue with Kobayshi (Yellowgate) is solved. It was a redyellow flag.

But Vettel turned into Bruno, and that was quite amateurish.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:41

Benetton wrote:
Klon wrote:Senna going full retard in lap 1

What? The reason Vettel spun was that he turned into Senna!

Nah. Not even remotely. Senna straight-up punted Vettel like he was Randy Orton or something.

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:43

PiquetSr.interviewsAlonsolol :lol:

Benetton · Post by **Benetton** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:43

Nuppiz wrote:And wut, Vettel crashed into Senna? I perceived it the other way around, he had no chance to know that Senna would divebomb like that!

Well maybe not that Bruno was there but as I think Brundle pointed out in the broadcast that the odds were that Someone would be there, on the inside.

Edit) Haha Petrov interview on Sky. "He kissed me already once. The second time it means something else. Gold"

Heikki looked really, pissed offish. Vitaly and Charles probably next year at Cate.

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:43

Benetton wrote:I really can't swallow the Hulkenberg penalty! He spins out in the rain. Doesn't warrant a DT. Maldonado crashed into Perez in Silverstone and into Hamilton in Valencia, both on a bone dry circuit, and got absolutely nothing. Force India should appeal their penalty if anything!

Maldonado did get a penalty in Valencia and a fine in Silverstone...

Benetton · Post by **Benetton** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:44

Ed24 wrote:
Benetton wrote:I really can't swallow the Hulkenberg penalty! He spins out in the rain. Doesn't warrant a DT. Maldonado crashed into Perez in Silverstone and into Hamilton in Valencia, both on a bone dry circuit, and got absolutely nothing. Force India should appeal their penalty if anything!

Maldonado did get a penalty in Valencia and a fine in Silverstone...

ROTR to myself then for not remembering that.

S951 · Post by **S951** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:45

Congrats to Vettel he did what he needed to do in a very frantic race overall very entertaining I liked it, as much as I don't like they guy you have to be in there to win it and he has done it 3 years on the trot. Races that come to mind that Alonso should have finished that would of made mad a difference are Spa and Suzuka, plus any race McLaren f'up in

Post by **Ataxia** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:50

Good lord, so much blame game going on here.

Instead of a simple "Oh, well done Mr. Vettel", we've got "ERMAHGERD VETTLE IS CHEETING AND CHRISHTIAN HORNER IS A NASTY MAN AND I DONT LIEK HIS FEET".

Seriously, is a 'well done' so hard to concede? I don't even like the guy, but he drove a great race to grab the result he so desperately needed. Granted, he did cut Senna off but it's amazing that he managed the damage on his car to get a top-6 result. Alonso worked really hard this year, and he was definitely equally deserving of getting the WDC.

As it goes, it was an epic race. It had everything. I feel a great amount of sympathy for Hulkenberg; he could have grabbed a win today. His team-mate though...oh, dear.

As for Maldonado's retirement, I didn't notice it. Did he get caught up in the Senna-Perez-Vettel incident?

noiceinmydrink · Post by **noiceinmydrink** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:52

GwilymJJames wrote:I'm gonna say something that it appears the rest of the forum won't like, but it's true.

Sebastian deserved to win this year.

As he did last year.
And the year before.

And he deserves to be a triple world champion.

Because he is.

This. Everyone who has won championship deserved it. That's a fact. You cannot argue with that. I just feel Alonso deserved it more because he drove that car FAR beyond what it was capable of.

JJMonty · Post by **JJMonty** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:53

BaconLettuceNinja wrote:
As for Maldonado's retirement, I didn't notice it. Did he get caught up in the Senna-Perez-Vettel incident?

I think he spun off at T3 ala 2003 style

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:58

GwilymJJames wrote:I'm gonna say something that it appears the rest of the forum won't like, but it's true.

Sebastian deserved to win this year.

As he did last year.
And the year before.

And he deserves to be a triple world champion.

Because he is.

Hear, hear.

Samster · Post by **Samster** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:58

Benetton wrote:I really can't swallow the Hulkenberg penalty! He spins out in the rain. Doesn't warrant a DT. Maldonado crashed into Perez in Silverstone and into Hamilton in Valencia, both on a bone dry circuit, and got absolutely nothing. Force India should appeal their penalty if anything!

With the same logic, Vettel should get a penalty for crashing into Bruno at the start!

Um, he got penalised on both occasions. Better examples would be di Resta on Senna at Monza or even the Senna/Vettel collision today.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 25 Nov 2012, 18:58

Shizuka wrote:If Alonso wins the title, someone please make me a Vettelwinslol avatar, and I'll use it for a month.

I got lucky... :twisted:

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 25 Nov 2012, 19:01

BaconLettuceNinja wrote:Good lord, so much blame game going on here.

Instead of a simple "Oh, well done Mr. Vettel", we've got "ERMAHGERD VETTLE IS CHEETING AND CHRISHTIAN HORNER IS A NASTY MAN AND I DONT LIEK HIS FEET".

Seriously, is a 'well done' so hard to concede? I don't even like the guy, but he drove a great race to grab the result he so desperately needed. Granted, he did cut Senna off but it's amazing that he managed the damage on his car to get a top-6 result. Alonso worked really hard this year, and he was definitely equally deserving of getting the WDC.

As it goes, it was an epic race. It had everything. I feel a great amount of sympathy for Hulkenberg; he could have grabbed a win today. His team-mate though...oh, dear.

As for Maldonado's retirement, I didn't notice it. Did he get caught up in the Senna-Perez-Vettel incident?

Now I have calmed down a bit, I concur. Congratulations to Sebastian Vettel on his third straight title.

Dan B · Post by **Dan B** » 25 Nov 2012, 19:01

My 2 cents:

Vettel drove a great race. No, I don't like him; he complains too often yes, but he drove well. Same with Alonso; he did what he could with a car that is better used as a flowerpot, and his teammate was also doing quite well as well today. Do I think Alonso deserved the championship? Yes, very. But good job to Vettel for winning it. I'd honestly say this is a much more admirable win than last year when he walked over everyone.

The only people who should be chastised are the stewards for placing a very unwarranted penalty on Hulkenberg. As I said in the ROTR thread, cars are twitching everywhere in these conditions and yes one will inevitably twitch into another car. There was no malice, no boneheadedness, no stupidity; just a classic racing incident and if the track were dry Hulkenberg would've pulled it off.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 25 Nov 2012, 19:13

Just to make myself clear, as I feel a few posts have been aimed at me and others, I never said anything about Vettel. My gripe is RedBull as a team and Christian Horner as a person, not Vettel. He's a fantastic driver.

Post by **Londoner** » 25 Nov 2012, 19:22

To be fair, Vettel did deserve the title. I just think Alonso deserved it a bit more. Good job by everyone, and what a fantastic season.

Onwards to 2013!

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 25 Nov 2012, 19:34

I've just noticed something - With the exception of Custard at Italy, there hasn't been any replacement drivers at all this season

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 25 Nov 2012, 19:37

BaconLettuceNinja wrote:If there was ever a way to sugar-coat a Vettel title, that was the race to do it.

This. I knew going in to this it'd be a miracle for Alonso to take the title, so it was nice of Vettel I suppose to give us some hope by having a naff start and spinning himself out on Senna. But what a race, seriously. Would've been fantastic to see the Hulk win it - for the penalty, to be honest, I don't see much problem with it. He should've known that it would be slippy off line, and set himself up for a run at Hamilton either at turn 4 or the next lap, not while they were still negotiating backmarkers. Still, though, at least it means we get a Button win to cap off that season, and that's never a bad thing. Feel gutted for Alonso, the man drove a superlative season, the best I've seen from any driver in my life. Great to Massa on the podium on home soil, though, and though I've been one of his more vocal critics, it's absolutely fantastic to see him back in form. He did such a fantastic job as Alonso's rear gunner, especially early on when Alonso was struggling and Massa was holding everyone up for him, I'm now really pleased he'll be back with Ferrari next year. Also great to see Pic and Petrov duking it out there for 10th in the Constructors' championship; I hope that'll be enough to convince Caterham to resign Petrov for next year.

Benetton · Post by **Benetton** » 25 Nov 2012, 19:37

JeremyMcClean wrote:I've just noticed something - With the exception of Custard at Italy, there hasn't been any replacement drivers at all this season

All the pay-drivers paid up then apparently :lol:

One thing about this season. Does anyone else remember a season where we had this many classic races? The usual is maybe to have 1-2 stand out races in a season but I can already name three that are very good (Valencia, Abu Dhabi, Interlagos).

Benetton · Post by **Benetton** » 25 Nov 2012, 19:40

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
BaconLettuceNinja wrote:Would've been fantastic to see the Hulk win it - for the penalty, to be honest, I don't see much problem with it. He should've known that it would be slippy off line, and set himself up for a run at Hamilton either at turn 4 or the next lap, not while they were still negotiating backmarkers.

I have to disagree here. As far as I'm concerned, I felt Hulkenberg saw his opportunity with the backmarker, who would've blocked Lewis for the next corner (Lewis wouldn't have had the inside line because the Caterham was there).

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 25 Nov 2012, 19:41

Next season has a tough act to follow, sao paolo, austin, yas marina, valencia, spa, malaysia... So many great races where the unexpected has happened