2013 Silly Season Thread

[DemocalypseNow]

Change "Jacques Villeneuve" to "anyone except Jacques Villeneuve" and change "Lotus" to "Williams" and you are right on the money. Maldonado and Senna are two average drivers in a good car. Even putting Webber in that car would move it to the front of the grid.

The fact Lotus have two strong drivers than just one is going to help immensely, they'll get lots of TV money and other position bonuses for beating Ferrari and Mercedes (and probably McLaren soon enough at this rate). Even if Lotus drop out at the end of the season Genii look in surprisingly good shape.

[UncreativeUsername37]

Maldonado and Senna are two below-average drivers in a good car.

Fixed.

[Phoenix]

Maldonado and Senna are two below-average drivers in a good car.

Fixed.

Maldonado does no longer look below average to me, he's just way too aggresive and wild.

[Minardi Man]

Maldonado and Senna are two below-average drivers in a good car.

Fixed.

Maldonado does no longer look below average to me, he's just way too aggresive and wild.

And therein lies his charm.

[tommykl]

Maldonado and Senna are two below-average drivers in a good car.

Fixed.

Maldonado does no longer look below average to me, he's just way too aggresive and wild.

Pastor Maldonado is the Andrea de Cesaris of his era, only with a race win.

[AdrianSutil]

I wouldn't be disappointed to see both Maldonado and Senna remain at Williams next year. They're just a bit too crash-happy at the moment. Certainly in Senna's case, his year at HRT in 2010 was pretty solid and mature for someone like him. If he can return to that level with Williams, I'm sure the points will continue to arrive

[DemocalypseNow]

I wouldn't be disappointed to see both Maldonado and Senna remain at Williams next year. They're just a bit too crash-happy at the moment. Certainly in Senna's case, his year at HRT in 2010 was pretty solid and mature for someone like him. If he can return to that level with Williams, I'm sure the points will continue to arrive

Disagree. They need Webber back. They need one of the experienced drivers from the current top teams to become a new lead driver, someone who can be depended upon. They have two pay-drivers right now. If WIlliams want to win anything ever, they can't keep that policy, they need at least one top-line driver. Or if they're feeling really ambitious, they can offer Hamilton the chance to have a team built around him.

[LellaLombardi]

I wouldn't be disappointed to see both Maldonado and Senna remain at Williams next year. They're just a bit too crash-happy at the moment. Certainly in Senna's case, his year at HRT in 2010 was pretty solid and mature for someone like him. If he can return to that level with Williams, I'm sure the points will continue to arrive

Disagree. They need Webber back. They need one of the experienced drivers from the current top teams to become a new lead driver, someone who can be depended upon. They have two pay-drivers right now. If WIlliams want to win anything ever, they can't keep that policy, they need at least one top-line driver. Or if they're feeling really ambitious, they can offer Hamilton the chance to have a team built around him.

That's what Barrichello was meant to do I think. That was a bad move for both sides though. I'm no Webber fan, but I think that would be a great move for him and Williams and he could well get a real revival for the end of his career.

Hamilton would only make a move like that if he wins the title this year, and perhaps becomes a three-time champion first. Right now he is clearly desperate to get another title first and won't want to spend what could be many more years rebuilding Williams.

[Ed24]

I wouldn't be disappointed to see both Maldonado and Senna remain at Williams next year. They're just a bit too crash-happy at the moment. Certainly in Senna's case, his year at HRT in 2010 was pretty solid and mature for someone like him. If he can return to that level with Williams, I'm sure the points will continue to arrive

Disagree. They need Webber back. They need one of the experienced drivers from the current top teams to become a new lead driver, someone who can be depended upon. They have two pay-drivers right now. If WIlliams want to win anything ever, they can't keep that policy, they need at least one top-line driver. Or if they're feeling really ambitious, they can offer Hamilton the chance to have a team built around him.

Maybe they could make another bid for Button?

I guess Massa could be another good option as an experienced driver who would probably relish a fresh start. It would be hard on Bottas though to overlook him again.

[RonDenisDeletraz]

I wouldn't be disappointed to see both Maldonado and Senna remain at Williams next year. They're just a bit too crash-happy at the moment. Certainly in Senna's case, his year at HRT in 2010 was pretty solid and mature for someone like him. If he can return to that level with Williams, I'm sure the points will continue to arrive

Disagree. They need Webber back. They need one of the experienced drivers from the current top teams to become a new lead driver, someone who can be depended upon. They have two pay-drivers right now. If WIlliams want to win anything ever, they can't keep that policy, they need at least one top-line driver. Or if they're feeling really ambitious, they can offer Hamilton the chance to have a team built around him.

Maybe they could make another bid for Button?

I guess Massa could be another good option as an experienced driver who would probably relish a fresh start. It would be hard on Bottas though to overlook him again.

I don't rate Bottas that highly anyway, a lot of people have been hyping him up but I can't see him being any better than the current Williams drivers.

[Captain Hammer]

I wouldn't be disappointed to see both Maldonado and Senna remain at Williams next year. They're just a bit too crash-happy at the moment.

If the drivers are crash-happy, how is that at all a reason to keep them around for longer? Maldonado proved that the FW34 has potential - but right now, both he and Senna are squandering it. If it goes on for much longer, Frank Williams will replace one of them (almost certainly Senna) with Valtteri Bottas.

The way I see it, Senna has had more than enough chances to prove himself. So far, he has failed to do that, and should be dropped.

[Ed24]

I don't rate Bottas that highly anyway, a lot of people have been hyping him up but I can't see him being any better than the current Williams drivers.

Yeah, I guess that gives weight to the theory that they should give him a go in the 2nd half of this season and see if it's worth persevering with him or bringing in someone else.

Maybe they could get Glock out of his Marussia contract, they can't be making the progress that he would've hoped.

[FullMetalJack]

Maybe they could get Glock out of his Marussia contract, they can't be making the progress that he would've hoped.

That's a good idea, Glock deserves a good car, but who will go to Marussia if that happens? They will need someone with experience.

[WaffleCat]

Maybe they could get Glock out of his Marussia contract, they can't be making the progress that he would've hoped.

That's a good idea, Glock deserves a good car, but who will go to Marussia if that happens? They will need someone with experience.

Heidfeld,perhaps?

[AdrianSutil]

I wouldn't be disappointed to see both Maldonado and Senna remain at Williams next year. They're just a bit too crash-happy at the moment.

If the drivers are crash-happy, how is that at all a reason to keep them around for longer? Maldonado proved that the FW34 has potential - but right now, both he and Senna are squandering it. If it goes on for much longer, Frank Williams will replace one of them (almost certainly Senna) with Valtteri Bottas.

The way I see it, Senna has had more than enough chances to prove himself. So far, he has failed to do that, and should be dropped.

It's got more to do with both drivers knowing they have a good car but pushing too hard to get the results the car is capable of. Apart from Spain, which is a WTF moment, the car is competitive well inside the midfield. Senna and Maldonado need to get better at qualifying. Their P14, P15, P16 grid spots come to nothing on rceday as they've got too much work to do and end up making a mess of it.

Get that car up the grid more, improe their one-lap pace, and the top 10 results will be there every race.

[Ed24]

Yeah, maybe Heidfeld, but there are plenty of options; Sutil, Alguersuari, Buemi etc.

[dr-baker]

Maybe they could get Glock out of his Marussia contract, they can't be making the progress that he would've hoped.

That's a good idea, Glock deserves a good car, but who will go to Marussia if that happens? They will need someone with experience.

Senna? Direct swap?

[DanielPT]

Maybe they could get Glock out of his Marussia contract, they can't be making the progress that he would've hoped.

That's a good idea, Glock deserves a good car, but who will go to Marussia if that happens? They will need someone with experience.

Senna? Direct swap?

Senna? I don't think redbulljack was refering to experience in being slow in the dry and in tangling once or twice with other drivers during the long period of time that is a weekend.

[CoopsII]

The way I see it, Senna has had more than enough chances to prove himself. So far, he has failed to do that, and should be dropped.

Personally, I dont think any driver should be dropped mid-season. A driver should be judged for the season as a whole.

[IceG]

Drivers should be judged on:
(i) performance relative to team mate
(ii) improvement in performance over time
(iii) quality of feedback to engineers
(iv) consistency

You need about 5-10 races to make an assessment based on these criteria, allowing for unfortunate crashes and one-off circumstances. We only see (i) and get hints of (ii) and (iv) (because the team knows about other circumstances which affect lap-times, etc. which we don't).

Unfortunately, outside the top five teams, the criteria seem to be:
(i) sponsorship money
(ii) nationality with respect to Bernie's next new venue

[FMecha]

Drivers should be judged on:
(i) performance relative to team mate
(ii) improvement in performance over time
(iii) quality of feedback to engineers
(iv) consistency

You need about 5-10 races to make an assessment based on these criteria, allowing for unfortunate crashes and one-off circumstances. We only see (i) and get hints of (ii) and (iv) (because the team knows about other circumstances which affect lap-times, etc. which we don't).

Unfortunately, outside the top five teams, the criteria seem to be:
(i) sponsorship money
(ii) nationality with respect to Bernie's next new venue

Eh, what's the relation of driver's nationality with Bernie's next new venue?

[FullMetalJack]

That's a good idea, Glock deserves a good car, but who will go to Marussia if that happens? They will need someone with experience.

Senna? Direct swap?

Senna? I don't think redbulljack was refering to experience in being slow in the dry and in tangling once or twice with other drivers during the long period of time that is a weekend.

No, but in all honesty, who will take that Marussia seat if Glock were to hypothetically go?

[UncreativeUsername37]

Drivers should be judged on:
(i) performance relative to team mate
(ii) improvement in performance over time
(iii) quality of feedback to engineers
(iv) consistency

You need about 5-10 races to make an assessment based on these criteria, allowing for unfortunate crashes and one-off circumstances. We only see (i) and get hints of (ii) and (iv) (because the team knows about other circumstances which affect lap-times, etc. which we don't).

Unfortunately, outside the top five teams, the criteria seem to be:
(i) sponsorship money
(ii) nationality with respect to Bernie's next new venue

Eh, what's the relation of driver's nationality with Bernie's next new venue?

It seems like it's included in sponsorship money. Why is it a separate item?

[AndreaModa]

Because there is often a great deal of interest in a country which is able to secure a Grand Prix there for the first time. As a result, it is more likely that companies based in said country would be willing to spend money on sponsorship for drivers or teams attached in some way to that country, most obviously through sharing the same nationality. Hence why there were a lot of rumours about Chandhok maybe getting a drive at India last year, and why HRT carried Hero Honda logos on their cars during the Indian GP.

[Captain Hammer]

Ferrari
1 - Alonso
2 - Vettel

Following Stefano Domenicali's comments that Alonso and Vettel could "co-exist" at Ferrari, the team make a play for Vettel - and win. Impressed by the way the team turn their season around and disappointed by Red Bull's inability to develop the RB8, Vettel hapily goes to Maranello.

Red Bull (Renault)
3 - Webber
4 - Vergne

Most people are overjoyed when Helmut Marko is forced to support Mark Webber for the 2013 season following Vettel's departure. The team have very few options available to them as a second driver, and despite a brief attempt to lure Hamilton away from McLaren, they settle on Vergne after he out-scores Ricciardo.

Lotus (Renault)
5 - Grosjean
6 - Korjus

Raikkonen leaves the team - and Formula 1 - after a mid-season falling-out sees them throw their support behind Grosjean. After besting Jules Bianchi in Formula renault, Kevin Korjus is Raikkonen's replacement.

McLaren (Mercedes)
7 - Button
8 - Perez

The team cannot keep Hamilton around for another season, and so turn to Perez instead. Having become a free agent when Ferrari sign Vettel, Perez is sought by many, but McLaren beat everyone to the punch, signing a contract before his availablity becomes public knowledge.

Mercedes
9 - Rosberg
10 - Wickens

With Schumacher re-retiring, Mercedes briefly consider taking di Resta or Hulkenberg, but instead decide to take a chance on Wickens, who is coached by Schumacher.

Sauber (Ferrari)
11 - Kobayashi
12 - Petrov

After scoring two wins (one each for Perez and Kobayashi) in 2012, Sauber start aiming to become regular front-runners and sign Vitaly Petrov to help bankroll the effort. Despite several offers, Kobayashi stays at Sauber, starting speculation that the team might receive works funding from Japan in 2014.

Williams (Renault)
14 - Hamilton
15 - Bottas

When Maldonado and Senna both waste the FW34's potential, Sir Frank decides both of them have had enough chances and fire the both of them. They lure Hamilton away from McLaren under the promise of building the team around him, and pair him with the promising Bottas.

Force India (Mercedes)
16 - di Resta
17 - Rossi

After an anonymous season during a year of standout performances from others, Vijay Mallya decides change is necessary. Hulkenberg is dropped after he fails to live up to his potential, and Mallya steals Rossi away from Caterham.

Toro Rosso (Ferrari)
18 - Ricciardo
19 - Kvyat

With Vergne off to Red Bull, Toro Rosso pick up the most-experienced of the Yougn Driver candidates, Daniil Kvyat. Like Alguersuari before him, Kvyat's appointment is controversial as he is only nineteen years old.

Caterham (Renault)
20 - Kovalainen
21 - Maldonado

Tony Fernandes accepts money from a Venezuealan - what could go wrong? Petrov's movement leaves the team short on funds, but Maldonado's PDVSA money is believed to be enough to finally put Caterham into contention for points.

Marussia (Cosworth)
22 - Glock
23 - Haryanto

The second driver merry-go-round continues at Marussia, with Pic out and Haryanto in. More money from Indonesia means more stability, but it doesn't do much for the team's image - especially as they had to drive defensively to keep eleventh place.

HRT (Cosworth)
24 - Hulkenberg
25 - Nasr

HRT are humiliated when they are banned for five races after the FIA discovered they used brake pads that they knew would not last an entire race, thereby making the car unsafe. Pedro de la Rosa quits in disgust, but the team makes (positive) headlines when they pick up Hulkenberg and Nasr.

[FMecha]

Sorry Hammer, but the chances of your predictions being Jossed is quite high, in my opinion.

[Captain Hammer]

Well, I do admit that the entire thing is born out of the desire to see Perez race for a top team other than Ferrari without bowing to the wishes of the Lewisterical among us and putting Hamilton in the Red Bull.

But I do think Hamilton has what Williams sorely needs - a reason for people to get excited about the team again. I can see Hamilton's name up there with Prost and Mansell, but I can't seen Maldonado or Senna there.

[AdrianSutil]

Captain Hammer's predictions are by far the most 'out-there' of predictions.

Hulkenberg to HRT? Vergne to Red Bull?!

If Vergne ever gets a race seat at Red Bull I'll [Family forum]

[Captain Hammer]

Like any other team, Red Bull will take the best drivers available to them at any given time. If Webber and Vergne are the best drivers available to them, then they will take Webber and Vergne. It's not like they'd take Vergne over Hamilton if both were available - they'd only take Vergne once Hamilton went elsewhere or if they could not come to agreeable terms with him.

[RonDenisDeletraz]

HRT (Cosworth)


HRT are humiliated when they are banned for five races after the FIA discovered they used brake pads that they knew would not last an entire race, thereby making the car unsafe.

Just get over it already

[Londoner]

HRT (Cosworth)


HRT are humiliated when they are banned for five races after the FIA discovered they used brake pads that they knew would not last an entire race, thereby making the car unsafe.

Just get over it already

This.

It was a passing rumour, nothing has been proven. And also, this isn't the Autosport forums, where HRT bashing is widespread.

[mario]

HRT (Cosworth)


HRT are humiliated when they are banned for five races after the FIA discovered they used brake pads that they knew would not last an entire race, thereby making the car unsafe.

Just get over it already

This.

It was a passing rumour, nothing has been proven. And also, this isn't the Autosport forums, where HRT bashing is widespread.

Quite - although the rumour did come from Sky Sports, at the moment they have been the only news outlet to have run that particular allegations, and even then that was on a limited basis (mostly confined to Ted Kravitz's post race comments).
I would therefore be inclined to treat the allegations as unproven at best - HRT certainly were struggling with their brakes, as, judging by the radio traffic, were a few other teams, and it is the case that a few teams have taken major risks in the past with their cars (consider Caterham in the Canadian GP last year, when Trulli was struggling to drive the car after the front heave spring mechanism collapsed into the pedal box area, dangling around near the brake pedal). Whether the team would be prepared to take such a major risk on what is, ultimately, a safety critical feature is questionable, particularly given that they have withdrawn cars in the past due to handling defects (last year during the Belgian GP, for example, when they called in Ricciardo after he complained of vibrations when braking and handling problems).

Well, I do admit that the entire thing is born out of the desire to see Perez race for a top team other than Ferrari without bowing to the wishes of the Lewisterical among us and putting Hamilton in the Red Bull.

But I do think Hamilton has what Williams sorely needs - a reason for people to get excited about the team again. I can see Hamilton's name up there with Prost and Mansell, but I can't seen Maldonado or Senna there.

I think that the suggestion of Hamilton to Red Bull was motivated more by some throwaway comments that Mateschitz, I believe, made some time ago where he suggested, much as Domenicali recently did, that Red Bull would be capable of accommodating two top line drivers and happened to use the example of Hamilton and Vettel (in the process also indicating, in a rather backhanded manner, that he didn't think Webber was a top tier driver).
He did indicate for a little while that Red Bull might have been interested in Hamilton, but that seemed to be as much about Red Bull piggybacking off the increased media attention that surrounded Hamilton last year for their own ends than longer term driver strategies (Bernie also made a few remarks suggesting Hamilton should go to Red Bull, not only playing off the media speculation at the time but also, perhaps, angling for a driver line up that would be much more attractive for FOM's promotional material). Whilst it is in principle possible that Hamilton might look to go to Red Bull when his contract expires this year - they are, after all, still a competitive team - I don't think it is especially likely at the moment. That said, given that Hamilton is in no rush to sign any contracts (he has said that he wants to focus on the WDC this year and leave the contract negotiations until the off season), I expect that the rumours of Hamilton heading here, there and everywhere are likely to continue for some time.

I think that, for now, I'm inclined to agree with AdrianSutil's remarks that some of your predictions are on the optimistic side (driven, as you say, as much by a desire of what you'd like to see happen rather than what is more likely to happen). Why, for example, would Force India go for Rossi rather than Bianchi, given that Ferrari are thought to be lobbying Force India quite heavily to give Bianchi as much seat time as possible (he has already been given seat time in the pre season tests, the in season test at Mugello and two of the eight practise sessions that he has been promised this year). If Hulkenberg were to be dropped - and that is one change I do think is possible, because Di Resta has been beating Hulkenberg quite consistently this year - I would have thought that Ferrari would then push Force India hard to replace him with Bianchi.

[Bleu]

7 rookies sound maybe a bit too much.

[CoopsII]

The BBC are reporting its a done deal for 2014 with Webber replacing Massa for 2013 if Felipe doesnt get his act together.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/gossip/

[TomWazzleshaw]

The BBC are reporting its a done deal for 2014 with Webber replacing Massa for 2013 if Felipe doesnt get his act together.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/gossip/

As outlandish as it sounds, if it is true then that must be the biggest 'up yours' to anyone that I've ever seen

[CoopsII]

Anybody else think that Alonso will come out on top here?

[RonDenisDeletraz]

Anybody else think that Alonso will come out on top here?

Yes.

I really wasn't expecting that.

[DemocalypseNow]

The BBC are reporting its a done deal for 2014 with Webber replacing Massa for 2013 if Felipe doesnt get his act together.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/gossip/

Eh, your post is misleading. BBC are reposing a story by Mediaset.

I reiterate...

MEDIASET!!!

Having immersed myself in Italian media as part of calciomercato, I can say with experience that everything they publish ever is bullshite. It's not a surprise with Silvio Berlusconi as their owner

[CoopsII]

The story is everywhere, everywhere I tell you!

[TheBigJ]

Alonso will rip Vettel to shreds.