Sublime_FA11C wrote:Vettel and Rosberg ended their race on shot tyres and lost time in the last few laps, Raikkonen's tyres were shot with more than 10 laps to go. Rosberg had time to spare only because Raikkonen help up the field. Had Button's pit gone to plan Rosberg's gap and fading tyres would not have been enough to seal the win.
What I saw was Rosberg pacing himself during the final laps, TBH.
I agree that pitting after 11 and 28 (not 27) laps was pretty stupid, but then a lot of people looked to be doing stupid things with their stops during the race. I couldn't understand why everyone started pitting so soon, when it was clear that trains were developing behind and therefore 2-stopping was a viable strategy. Webber chose to pit very early and got stuck in traffic, why anyone pitted soon after that was beyond me. It was choosing a 3-stop too soon, or making the 2-stop too difficult.
Kimi had been lapping faster all the time with his final set, down to 1:41.7 in lap 43, with 13 to go. So until that point, the effect of fuel burnt was bigger than the effect of tyre wear. Of course it wasn't the best strategy, but then it wasn't much more crap than what other people were doing, at least not enough to deserve a ROTR nomination I feel.
Go home, Bernie Ecclestone!
"There will be no other victory this year, I can tell you, more welcomed than this one" Bob Varsha, 1995 Canadian GP
Sublime_FA11C wrote:Vettel and Rosberg ended their race on shot tyres and lost time in the last few laps, Raikkonen's tyres were shot with more than 10 laps to go. Rosberg had time to spare only because Raikkonen help up the field. Had Button's pit gone to plan Rosberg's gap and fading tyres would not have been enough to seal the win.
What I saw was Rosberg pacing himself during the final laps, TBH.
I agree that pitting after 11 and 28 (not 27) laps was pretty stupid, but then a lot of people looked to be doing stupid things with their stops during the race. I couldn't understand why everyone started pitting so soon, when it was clear that trains were developing behind and therefore 2-stopping was a viable strategy. Webber chose to pit very early and got stuck in traffic, why anyone pitted soon after that was beyond me. It was choosing a 3-stop too soon, or making the 2-stop too difficult.
The only logical explanation for the Webber call that I could come to was that he's trying a surprisingly common trick used in the V8 Supercars when stuck in the field with cars of similar pace. Basically, it's a 'reverse window' strategy where you work from the race end and pit at the earlier possible opportunity where you can make it to the finish without making anymore stops (Or, the 'get home' point as Larko likes to call it). Here in China, with the medium tyres lasting about 21 laps before falling off the cliff, the get-home point would have been around lap 35. The fact that virtually half the field got sucker-punched into following his lead made his job of making the strategy actually work so much easier and saved the two-stopper's afternoons in the process as suddenly, they got track position and virtually a free pit-stop over the rest of the field.
Biscione wrote:"Some Turkemenistani gulag repurposed for residential use" is the best way yet I've heard to describe North / East Glasgow.
Sublime_FA11C wrote:Vettel and Rosberg ended their race on shot tyres and lost time in the last few laps, Raikkonen's tyres were shot with more than 10 laps to go. Rosberg had time to spare only because Raikkonen help up the field. Had Button's pit gone to plan Rosberg's gap and fading tyres would not have been enough to seal the win.
What I saw was Rosberg pacing himself during the final laps, TBH.
I agree that pitting after 11 and 28 (not 27) laps was pretty stupid, but then a lot of people looked to be doing stupid things with their stops during the race. I couldn't understand why everyone started pitting so soon, when it was clear that trains were developing behind and therefore 2-stopping was a viable strategy. Webber chose to pit very early and got stuck in traffic, why anyone pitted soon after that was beyond me. It was choosing a 3-stop too soon, or making the 2-stop too difficult.
The only logical explanation for the Webber call that I could come to was that he's trying a surprisingly common trick used in the V8 Supercars when stuck in the field with cars of similar pace. Basically, it's a 'reverse window' strategy where you work from the race end and pit at the earlier possible opportunity where you can make it to the finish without making anymore stops (Or, the 'get home' point as Larko likes to call it). Here in China, with the medium tyres lasting about 21 laps before falling off the cliff, the get-home point would have been around lap 35. The fact that virtually half the field got sucker-punched into following his lead made his job of making the strategy actually work so much easier and saved the two-stopper's afternoons in the process as suddenly, they got track position and virtually a free pit-stop over the rest of the field.
It was probably because his tyres were all but dead. It only looked smart because everyone else fell for it. The reverse window usually only works if there is an early safety car, or barring that, no late ones.
Ferrim wrote: What I saw was Rosberg pacing himself during the final laps, TBH.
I agree that pitting after 11 and 28 (not 27) laps was pretty stupid, but then a lot of people looked to be doing stupid things with their stops during the race. I couldn't understand why everyone started pitting so soon, when it was clear that trains were developing behind and therefore 2-stopping was a viable strategy. Webber chose to pit very early and got stuck in traffic, why anyone pitted soon after that was beyond me. It was choosing a 3-stop too soon, or making the 2-stop too difficult.
The only logical explanation for the Webber call that I could come to was that he's trying a surprisingly common trick used in the V8 Supercars when stuck in the field with cars of similar pace. Basically, it's a 'reverse window' strategy where you work from the race end and pit at the earlier possible opportunity where you can make it to the finish without making anymore stops (Or, the 'get home' point as Larko likes to call it). Here in China, with the medium tyres lasting about 21 laps before falling off the cliff, the get-home point would have been around lap 35. The fact that virtually half the field got sucker-punched into following his lead made his job of making the strategy actually work so much easier and saved the two-stopper's afternoons in the process as suddenly, they got track position and virtually a free pit-stop over the rest of the field.
It was probably because his tyres were all but dead. It only looked smart because everyone else fell for it. The reverse window usually only works if there is an early safety car, or barring that, no late ones.
Which brings up the question of how the bathplug can you eat through your tyres in 6 laps? (Assuming he only did one qualifying run on that set of tyres)
Biscione wrote:"Some Turkemenistani gulag repurposed for residential use" is the best way yet I've heard to describe North / East Glasgow.
2. Caterham - Not even close to Toro Rosso's utterly anonymous midfield running. It's tough trying to ice skate uphill.
Honourable mentions- Massa/Raikkonen for having a clearly doomed strategy and sticking with the strategy even though 10 cars were directly behind waiting for their tyres to go.
DanielPT wrote:In a race where we lacked any big rejectful moment, I say Toro Rosso. If this keeps going on STR, I imagine another 2 drivers going into the slaughterhouse. The only thing positive is that this can only do good things for The Saurus and Buemi reputations.
It's not a good team to go into, because the only possible career trajectory is to be Vettel's dogsbody at Red Bull once Webber retires.
Alguersuari and Buemi are proof that we have quite a surplus of drivers capable of efficiently and competently (enough of the time) operating a Formula 1 car right now.
Ed24 wrote:(Save the One nominations for next week when they switch it back to Channel Ten and we lose HD broadcasting )
wait... WHAT???!! is it still live??
Channel Ten are moving their Formula 1 coverage from One to Ten for all the European races this year, mostly because there are two Australians competing in 2012. There is no word on whether or not this includes Bahrain, but a quick look at the television guide for next week shows that most of Ten's programming for Sunday night is still To Be Advised. They're evidently waiting on a final word from Bahrain - they don't want to commit to the race, only to have it cancelled.
They're definitely planning to show Bahrain live on Ten based on my TV guides, and also based on the regular advertisements that say, to paraphrase, 'starting April 22, live F1 and MotoGP on Channel Ten, Sundays 9.30pm'.
jackanderton wrote:I think Massa might be a good shout actually- get this:
He's the only driver outside of the new teams to have no points after 3 races. Worse than that, 13th place being his best finishing position so far.
This is Reject of the Race not Reject of the Year
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet" -Abraham Lincoln
True. Although even in the context of the GP, by the end he was the only driver in F1 outside of Caterham/Marussia/HRT to be pointless. Rather rejectful.
1. Pitcrew/Strategy in géneral: they're responsible for the sole DNF on the race, killed Raikkonen's race and seriously hampered Button's.
Dishonorable mentions:
Sauber: good qualifying, but problematic race for them. Force India: Two steps backward since last years. Toro Rosso: if last year, Helmut Marko said that the two drivers wouldn't be F1 winners, we know that this year, STR will never have a car approaching the podium. How can you say if a driver is good or bad if the car is below average... Caterham: It was the year of the first point, the fight with the low-midfield, the first European course will be a reality check if that didn't already happenned , it's still not enough.
I won't vote for the site/forum in this, but sadly the problem exists and the Java exploit is irritating.
FMecha wrote:I wonder why Enoch have yet to decide who's ROTR.
He is probably busy in real life.
I am sure he is.
For those who don't know what real life is like, just try and go outside for a bit and take a deep breath while looking around. Intoxicating, isn't it?
Colin Kolles on F111, 2011 HRT challenger: The car doesn't look too bad; it looks like a modern F1 car.
As it turns out, yes, I have been incredibly busy. Huge workload plus four kids and a second serious hobby (photography) will do that to you.
But time to make the "official" decision, and in the end I must say none of the nominations really grabbed me as being a good ROTR recipient. I was leaning towards Raikkonen's strategy, but as someone pointed out, he only pitted a lap before Senna who finished strongly, and it was getting his tyres dirty as much as degradation itself which sealed his fate. Despite Schumacher being the only retirement, giving it to the Merc pit crew seemed unfair on a day when they took their long-awaited first victory in their current guise. (Here's a thought ... some team members would surely have been there when Button won in Hungary in 2006, and during the Brawn fairytale of 2009; how many mechanics can say they've won races with three different teams, and yet stayed in the same team at the same time?)
I thought about giving it to the DRS zone as well, because that really spoilt a tremendous race. For some bizarre reason, China seems to be the perfect track for the current rules - where 2 stoppers and 3 stoppers invariably end up on the same piece of tarmac towards the end of the race, such is the interplay between fuel loads and tyre wear. What you needed was an effective DRS zone to really allow some chopping and changing in the closing laps. Then again, I've also been critical of DRS zones that make passing too easy, so I'd be hypocritical ...
In the end, I've gone for something a bit abstract, which virtually no one has nominated: Mercedes doomsday prophets. Which basically means everyone. I mean, seriously, just about everyone on every forum and everyone up and down the pit lane ended up with egg on their faces come the chequered flag. After qualifying no-one gave Mercedes a chance of making their tyres last - even on a three-stop strategy. In the Sky commentary, Brundle predicted the Mercs to start wearing their tyres out after 4 laps. We were all dreaming about a possible Kobayashi victory! But for Rosberg to not only survive and win handily, but do so on a two-stopper? I can't imagine how hard Ross Brawn must have been laughing inside.
Mercedes are suddenly looking very handy, especially in cooler conditions, and this championship has a long way to run ...
P.S. To all those nominating F1 Rejects for the forum black-out during the race and ongoing hack issues. I'm afraid Jamie is even busier than I am (he always is at this time of year when the rugby season in Australia is really kicking off), and the reality is, if we want to run a proper website on a better server ... "show me the money"! This amateurish, loss-making botch-job embodying the very hopelessness and mediocrity we celebrate is the best we can do on the funds and time we have available!
eytl wrote:P.S. To all those nominating F1 Rejects for the forum black-out during the race and ongoing hack issues. I'm afraid Jamie is even busier than I am (he always is at this time of year when the rugby season in Australia is really kicking off), and the reality is, if we want to run a proper website on a better server ... "show me the money"!
22 boxes, a quarter of a million pounds, just one question. Welcome... to Deal or No Deal!
One more problem solved in the world. 250 grand would host a decent server until wmetcalf68 is as old as eagleash, half of us are already dead, and Jacques Villeneuve is still trying to make a comeback to F1.
James Allen, on his favourite F1 engine of all time: "...the Life W12, I can't describe the noise to you, but imagine filling your dustbin with nuts and bolts, and then throwing it down the stairs, it was something akin to that!"
eytl wrote:As it turns out, yes, I have been incredibly busy. Huge workload plus four kids and a second serious hobby (photography) will do that to you.
But time to make the "official" decision, and in the end I must say none of the nominations really grabbed me as being a good ROTR recipient. I was leaning towards Raikkonen's strategy, but as someone pointed out, he only pitted a lap before Senna who finished strongly, and it was getting his tyres dirty as much as degradation itself which sealed his fate. Despite Schumacher being the only retirement, giving it to the Merc pit crew seemed unfair on a day when they took their long-awaited first victory in their current guise. (Here's a thought ... some team members would surely have been there when Button won in Hungary in 2006, and during the Brawn fairytale of 2009; how many mechanics can say they've won races with three different teams, and yet stayed in the same team at the same time?)
I thought about giving it to the DRS zone as well, because that really spoilt a tremendous race. For some bizarre reason, China seems to be the perfect track for the current rules - where 2 stoppers and 3 stoppers invariably end up on the same piece of tarmac towards the end of the race, such is the interplay between fuel loads and tyre wear. What you needed was an effective DRS zone to really allow some chopping and changing in the closing laps. Then again, I've also been critical of DRS zones that make passing too easy, so I'd be hypocritical ...
In the end, I've gone for something a bit abstract, which virtually no one has nominated: Mercedes doomsday prophets. Which basically means everyone. I mean, seriously, just about everyone on every forum and everyone up and down the pit lane ended up with egg on their faces come the chequered flag. After qualifying no-one gave Mercedes a chance of making their tyres last - even on a three-stop strategy. In the Sky commentary, Brundle predicted the Mercs to start wearing their tyres out after 4 laps. We were all dreaming about a possible Kobayashi victory! But for Rosberg to not only survive and win handily, but do so on a two-stopper? I can't imagine how hard Ross Brawn must have been laughing inside.
Mercedes are suddenly looking very handy, especially in cooler conditions, and this championship has a long way to run ...
P.S. To all those nominating F1 Rejects for the forum black-out during the race and ongoing hack issues. I'm afraid Jamie is even busier than I am (he always is at this time of year when the rugby season in Australia is really kicking off), and the reality is, if we want to run a proper website on a better server ... "show me the money"! This amateurish, loss-making botch-job embodying the very hopelessness and mediocrity we celebrate is the best we can do on the funds and time we have available!
Apart from ME!!! (Mr. Mercedes-AMG-F1-Fans!) HAHAHA and speak of which, THIS happened the very next day!! also.. on Ross Brawn's note..
And here's me doing a "Ross"
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eytl wrote:In the end, I've gone for something a bit abstract, which virtually no one has nominated: Mercedes doomsday prophets. Which basically means everyone. I mean, seriously, just about everyone on every forum and everyone up and down the pit lane ended up with egg on their faces come the chequered flag. After qualifying no-one gave Mercedes a chance of making their tyres last - even on a three-stop strategy. In the Sky commentary, Brundle predicted the Mercs to start wearing their tyres out after 4 laps. We were all dreaming about a possible Kobayashi victory! But for Rosberg to not only survive and win handily, but do so on a two-stopper? I can't imagine how hard Ross Brawn must have been laughing inside.
I'll gladly take my 2nd ROTR award with pride in that case
Biscione wrote:"Some Turkemenistani gulag repurposed for residential use" is the best way yet I've heard to describe North / East Glasgow.
Good ROTR award. I was harsh on the Lotus strategy fiasco, but it was just plain racing stupidity, not rejectfull enough. Never has there been a more dismissed pole-sitter in (my) recent memory (which isn't saying much). Edit :roll:
Last edited by Sublime_FA11C on 20 Apr 2012, 10:51, edited 1 time in total.
Leyton House wrote:Sauber - found out painting your car like an HRT will make it go like one.
eytl wrote:P.S. To all those nominating F1 Rejects for the forum black-out during the race and ongoing hack issues. I'm afraid Jamie is even busier than I am (he always is at this time of year when the rugby season in Australia is really kicking off), and the reality is, if we want to run a proper website on a better server ... "show me the money"!
How about a "Donate" button? Another site I frequent added a PayPal Donate button on their site, and within a few days they had collected enough money to pay for a year's extension to their domain name, get a premium Photobucket account (the site has a lot of images) and remove ads from their site. Granted, that site likely has more visitors than this, and I presume that actual website hosting still costs more than the above items combined (the site I mentioned runs on a free message board base), but it isn't an impossible thought that at least some of the site's costs could be covered by voluntary donations. I could certainly throw a few euros your way every now and then if it ensures that the site keeps on running on a proper server. Worth a think, at least?
Eurosport broadcast for the 1990 Mexican GP prequalifying: "The Life, it looked very lifeless yet again... in fact Bruno did one, slow lap"
eytl wrote:In the end, I've gone for something a bit abstract, which virtually no one has nominated: Mercedes doomsday prophets. Which basically means everyone. I mean, seriously, just about everyone on every forum and everyone up and down the pit lane ended up with egg on their faces come the chequered flag. After qualifying no-one gave Mercedes a chance of making their tyres last - even on a three-stop strategy. In the Sky commentary, Brundle predicted the Mercs to start wearing their tyres out after 4 laps. We were all dreaming about a possible Kobayashi victory! But for Rosberg to not only survive and win handily, but do so on a two-stopper? I can't imagine how hard Ross Brawn must have been laughing inside.
It's my first ROTR award!
Colin Kolles on F111, 2011 HRT challenger: The car doesn't look too bad; it looks like a modern F1 car.
(Assuming he only did one qualifying run on that set of tyres)
)
