The 2012 IndyCar Series thread

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 09 Dec 2011, 04:14

I can't believe I'm actually going to watch this series next year.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 09 Dec 2011, 04:17

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:What's totally ironic is how the IRL bashed up Champ Car on its new DP01 back in 2007 just because of a few reliability issues. If the present problems are not fixed before May, there is the rather embarrassing prospect of the OWR cars being slower than the NASCAR cars at Indianapolis.

A few reliability issues? The DP01 was about as reliable as a stock car from the 1950s!

I'd feel a lot safer driving the DW-12 then I would the DP01, because I'm pretty sure the DW12 won't give you back injuries from poking the wall rear-first and won't fall apart when the engine fires up... and I'm pretty sure the DW-12 won't activate the pit speed limiter when the push to pass is used. Ironic? Yes, but did the IRL have every right to bash up Champ Car for having a crap car? Yes.

There's also no way NASCAR cars will outpace the DW12 at Indy, because in order to do that, NASCAR cars first have to reach 200 at Indy, which I don't even think happens. Maybe with the older cars, but the COT cars won't do that. They're too damn sluggish.

Despite the DW-12 being a piece of utter shite, we haven't actually seen it race yet. For all we know, it might put on some of the best racing ever despite being very poorly designed!

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 09 Dec 2011, 05:04

because I'm pretty sure the DW12 won't give you back injuries

The cause of the old IR-07 flying was basically related to an overall aerodynamic and weight distribution rearward bias. If I skimmed this article correctly, the new car has an even worse rearward weight bias. Doesn't this mean it will be much MORE likely to take flight than its predecessor?

and I'm pretty sure the DW-12 won't activate the pit speed limiter when the push to pass is used. Ironic? Yes, but did the IRL have every right to bash up Champ Car for having a crap car? Yes.

Well, the DP01 performed well right out of the box and had none of the issues the DW12 seems to be having. I'll admit that I was understating the issues that the DP01 had, but the DP01 was FASTER than the Lola. The DW12 is struggling to even keep up with the IR07. The DP01 did not have horrific handling issues, whereas the DW12's weight bias may make the car more likely to crash due to bad handling and there hasn't been a single positive note said by the drivers that I can think of regarding the car.

There's also no way NASCAR cars will outpace the DW12 at Indy, because in order to do that, NASCAR cars first have to reach 200 at Indy, which I don't even think happens. Maybe with the older cars, but the COT cars won't do that. They're too damn sluggish.

I'll admit overstatement again.

Despite the DW-12 being a piece of utter shite, we haven't actually seen it race yet. For all we know, it might put on some of the best racing ever despite being very poorly designed!

It may, but then again, you seriously want to compromise safety in favour of entertainment?

jpm · Post by **jpm** » 09 Dec 2011, 09:46

Great news for Pagenaud, he was one of the best drivers around without a seat, so good for Sam! As for SFHR (new partner is Wink Hartman), Josef Newgarden has a 3 year deal. I hope Sarah runs 2 cars to help him along, but as Hildebrand showed last year, a rookie can coope without a teammate if they're good enough. Robin Miller's take on the driver market is interesting; he reckons Hinch will take Danica's ride, Tags will drive a Lotus powered Bryan Herta car, Mike Conway will stay at Andretti, Oriol Servia will replace Meira at Foyt and Sato will go to Rahal. That still leaves a hell of a lot of drivers on the fringes:

Bertrand Baguette
EJ Viso
Wade Cunningham
Giorgio Pantano
Ho-Pin Tung
Bruno Junquiera
Paul Tracy
Jay Howard
Pippa Mann
Townsend Bell
Sebastian Bourdais
Alex Lloyd
Rapha Matos
James Jakes
Gustavo Yacaman
Martin Plowman
Tomas Scheckter
Ana Beatriz
Sebastian Saavedra
Justin & Stefan Wilson
Esteban Guerrieri

I don't know about you, but that seems like an epic list of free agents to me!

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 09 Dec 2011, 10:44

jpm wrote: That still leaves a hell of a lot of drivers on the fringes:

Bertrand Baguette
EJ Viso
Wade Cunningham
Giorgio Pantano
Ho-Pin Tung
Bruno Junquiera
Paul Tracy
Jay Howard
Pippa Mann
Townsend Bell
Sebastian Bourdais
Alex Lloyd
Rapha Matos
James Jakes
Gustavo Yacaman
Martin Plowman
Tomas Scheckter
Ana Beatriz
Sebastian Saavedra
Justin & Stefan Wilson
Esteban Guerrieri

I don't know about you, but that seems like an epic list of free agents to me!

21 drivers? That's enough to set up a breakaway series!

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 09 Dec 2011, 11:05

dr-baker wrote:
jpm wrote: That still leaves a hell of a lot of drivers on the fringes:

Bertrand Baguette
EJ Viso
Wade Cunningham
Giorgio Pantano
Ho-Pin Tung
Bruno Junquiera
Paul Tracy
Jay Howard
Pippa Mann
Townsend Bell
Sebastian Bourdais
Alex Lloyd
Rapha Matos
James Jakes
Gustavo Yacaman
Martin Plowman
Tomas Scheckter
Ana Beatriz
Sebastian Saavedra
Justin & Stefan Wilson
Esteban Guerrieri

I don't know about you, but that seems like an epic list of free agents to me!

21 drivers? That's enough to set up a breakaway series!

Do you remember what happened last time there was a breakaway series? :roll:

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 09 Dec 2011, 11:39

Wizzie wrote:
dr-baker wrote:
jpm wrote: That still leaves a hell of a lot of drivers on the fringes:

Bertrand Baguette
EJ Viso
Wade Cunningham
Giorgio Pantano
Ho-Pin Tung
Bruno Junquiera
Paul Tracy
Jay Howard
Pippa Mann
Townsend Bell
Sebastian Bourdais
Alex Lloyd
Rapha Matos
James Jakes
Gustavo Yacaman
Martin Plowman
Tomas Scheckter
Ana Beatriz
Sebastian Saavedra
Justin & Stefan Wilson
Esteban Guerrieri

I don't know about you, but that seems like an epic list of free agents to me!

21 drivers? That's enough to set up a breakaway series!

Do you remember what happened last time there was a breakaway series?

Yeah, and the weaker series won... I want the stronger series back again!

golic_2004 · Post by **golic_2004** » 09 Dec 2011, 12:22

F1000X wrote:I can't believe I'm actually going to watch this series next year.

Believe it. However most races will air on Versus, which not every American household has.

jpm · Post by **jpm** » 09 Dec 2011, 21:10

golic_2004 wrote:
F1000X wrote:I can't believe I'm actually going to watch this series next year.

Believe it. However most races will air on Versus, which not every American household has.

Darcyf1 is the solution to your problems! Not only do they have all the live indycar broadcasts but v8 supercars too!

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 09 Dec 2011, 22:07

golic_2004 wrote:
F1000X wrote:I can't believe I'm actually going to watch this series next year.

Believe it. However most races will air on Versus, which not every American household has.

*White-Whine* Unfortunately, I'm one of those poor souls who does. *White-Whine*

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 09 Dec 2011, 22:10

F1000X wrote:
golic_2004 wrote:
F1000X wrote:I can't believe I'm actually going to watch this series next year.

Believe it. However most races will air on Versus, which not every American household has.

*White-Whine* Unfortunately, I'm one of those poor souls who does. *White-Whine*

Ah... First-World problems :lol:

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 09 Dec 2011, 22:11

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:
Despite the DW-12 being a piece of utter shite, we haven't actually seen it race yet. For all we know, it might put on some of the best racing ever despite being very poorly designed!

It may, but then again, you seriously want to compromise safety in favour of entertainment?

What safety features are missing other than the backbreaker transmission? The rear bumper thingy might prevent the cars from flying, even if it's not necessary. The idea being, clearly, that if you smash into the rear bumper and drive over it, you won't be able to touch tires and go flying.

Also, I think you missed this part of the article;

According to Will Phillips, INDYCAR’s Vice President of Technology, the origins of the DW12’s unexpected rearward weight bias can be attributed to a number of vendor-supplied items being delivered well above their specified weights, rather than Dallara intentionally shifting weight to the back of the car.

...

But not everyone in the paddock believes the companies involved with providing the gearbox and its internals should take the blame for the DW12’s handling dilemma.

“I think the CFD model [Dallara’s] done is a bit too rudimentary, and it has bitten them in the end,” said one prominent IndyCar engineer with extensive CFD experience, who, along with another current IndyCar race engineer, voiced the same concern.

...and...

The bulbous, new-for-2012 rear wheel anti-interlocking devices, which Dallara had yet to name when the car was unveiled, were finally dubbed “rear wheel pods” by the constructor, which is far less colorful than the “Kardashians” nickname offered by IndyCar enthusiast.

jpm · Post by **jpm** » 12 Dec 2011, 12:24

Admittedly its not revelant, but nome66's avatr is awesome :lol:

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 12 Dec 2011, 12:33

With those reel wheel pods almost covering the whole of the rear wheels can we dub Indycar the a semi open wheel racing series?

Ferrarist · Post by **Ferrarist** » 14 Dec 2011, 21:40

jpm wrote:Great news for Pagenaud, he was one of the best drivers around without a seat, so good for Sam! As for SFHR (new partner is Wink Hartman), Josef Newgarden has a 3 year deal. I hope Sarah runs 2 cars to help him along, but as Hildebrand showed last year, a rookie can coope without a teammate if they're good enough. Robin Miller's take on the driver market is interesting; he reckons Hinch will take Danica's ride, Tags will drive a Lotus powered Bryan Herta car, Mike Conway will stay at Andretti, Oriol Servia will replace Meira at Foyt and Sato will go to Rahal. That still leaves a hell of a lot of drivers on the fringes:

Bertrand Baguette
EJ Viso
Wade Cunningham
Giorgio Pantano
Ho-Pin Tung
Bruno Junquiera
Paul Tracy
Jay Howard
Pippa Mann
Townsend Bell
Sebastian Bourdais
Alex Lloyd
Rapha Matos
James Jakes
Gustavo Yacaman
Martin Plowman
Tomas Scheckter
Ana Beatriz
Sebastian Saavedra
Justin & Stefan Wilson
Esteban Guerrieri

I don't know about you, but that seems like an epic list of free agents to me!

Sounds like a 2012 ChampCar grid to me, if the series was still around.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 15 Dec 2011, 20:46

It's not 2012 related, but here's a neat read about the 1994 Penske-Mercedes that destroyed the entire field at Indy that year.

It was the most interesting and riveting domination of the Indy 500 that I can think of, especially since, after this, Penske slowly went downhill.

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 16 Dec 2011, 00:22

Cynon wrote:It's not 2012 related, but here's a neat read about the 1994 Penske-Mercedes that destroyed the entire field at Indy that year.

It was the most interesting and riveting domination of the Indy 500 that I can think of, especially since, after this, Penske slowly went downhill.

Ah, one of the first articles I read when my Indy interest began, recommended for sure!

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 16 Dec 2011, 03:08

And Ms.Legge is back in US OW?

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 16 Dec 2011, 09:59

Sorry to resurrect a long-dead thread, but this needs to be added into the discussion of Dan Wheldon's death, which is what the season sadly ended upon.

http://www.registerguard.com/web/sports ... n.html.csp

From this article:

Randy Bernard, IndyCar CEO wrote:The ability of the drivers to race from the bottom of the racetrack all the way up to the wall and run limitless is not a condition we’ve experienced before. I don’t think we were expecting it to be any different from what we’d experienced in the last decade at places like Chicagoland, Kentucky, Fontana and Texas ... We were never expecting to be able to run from the top to the bottom (at Las Vegas).

Will Power wrote:The biggest problem we face is it’s almost like driving on the highway at full speed and you can’t get away from anyone. It’s the same thing NASCAR has with Daytona and Talladega, and when they have the big one, the consequences aren’t nearly as bad as in IndyCar.

We can’t race in a pack. You just can’t in open-wheelers.

With the variable banking and the relatively new paving at the already-wide track, it's a crime that IndyCar never saw an accident like this coming. It's such a shame that it took someone DYING for the series to realize the folly of racing at those kinds of speeds within those kinds of closed confines. Sadly, people's attention is often never gotten until it is far too late.

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 16 Dec 2011, 11:08

thehemogoblin wrote:Sorry to resurrect a long-dead thread

I'm sorry?

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 16 Dec 2011, 20:14

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:
thehemogoblin wrote:Sorry to resurrect a long-dead thread

I'm sorry?

I know it seems all out of character and stuff, but I'm a changed man now.

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 17 Dec 2011, 01:33

thehemogoblin wrote:
Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:
thehemogoblin wrote:Sorry to resurrect a long-dead thread

I'm sorry?

I know it seems all out of character and stuff, but I'm a changed man now.

But.... How could it be a long-dead thread if someone posted just 6 hours before your post?

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 17 Dec 2011, 06:54

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:
thehemogoblin wrote:
Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:I'm sorry?

I know it seems all out of character and stuff, but I'm a changed man now.

But.... How could it be a long-dead thread if someone posted just 6 hours before your post?

I thought it was way longer than that. I didn't look hard enough, I guess.

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 17 Dec 2011, 07:37

That's alright, good to see you back goblin.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 17 Dec 2011, 07:56

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:That's alright, good to see you back goblin.

This (even though I came way after you left)

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 20 Dec 2011, 22:39

Conway to drive for AJ Foyt in 2012

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 20 Dec 2011, 22:57

AJ, Y U NO SIGN BERTRAND BAGUETTE

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 21 Dec 2011, 08:02

eurobrun wrote:AJ, Y U NO SIGN BERTRAND BAGUETTE

Because Mike Conway won Long Beach.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 22 Dec 2011, 20:08

Indycar calendar published.

The big news are that neither Kentucky circuit or New Hampshire oval are present. The old news (or confirmed) are the absence of Las Vegas and Motegi. Coming in is Belle Isle circuit in Detroit and a street race at Quindao. Randy Bernard also said that new circuits could come in before the start of the season.

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 22 Dec 2011, 21:10

it's a little street heavy. oval in rockingham, uk please!

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 22 Dec 2011, 21:36

nome66 wrote:it's a little street heavy. oval in rockingham, uk please!

As a double-bill with Eurospeedway Lausitz! Or a double bill of Monza and Brands Indy!

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 24 Dec 2011, 03:36

dr-baker wrote:
nome66 wrote:it's a little street heavy. oval in rockingham, uk please!

As a double-bill with Eurospeedway Lausitz! Or a double bill of Monza and Brands Indy!

ANYTHING but Brands Hatch's Indy course...

Kentucky's departure is a surprise, New Hampshire was already confirmed to be gone, Autosport is typically a bit slow in picking up some of the finer details in announcements like this...

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 24 Dec 2011, 03:48

michigan international speedway.
turbo-friendly.
do it!

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 24 Dec 2011, 07:10

nome66 wrote:michigan international speedway.
turbo-friendly.
do it!

Yeah, but the problem is that ISC (AKA... the France family... AKA... NASCAR) doesn't like it when IndyCar puts on a better show on their tracks than NASCAR...

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 24 Dec 2011, 07:18

Cynon wrote:
nome66 wrote:michigan international speedway.
turbo-friendly.
do it!

Yeah, but the problem is that ISC (AKA... the France family... AKA... NASCAR) doesn't like it when IndyCar puts on a better show on their tracks than NASCAR...

Is that the reason why Chicagoland got dropped from the calender?

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 24 Dec 2011, 08:06

Wizzie wrote:
Cynon wrote:
nome66 wrote:michigan international speedway.
turbo-friendly.
do it!

Yeah, but the problem is that ISC (AKA... the France family... AKA... NASCAR) doesn't like it when IndyCar puts on a better show on their tracks than NASCAR...

Is that the reason why Chicagoland got dropped from the calender?

NASCAR moved it's Chicagoland date to conflict with the IRL, and gave them no opportunity to reschedule a race unless it was supporting NASCAR or would not be favorable. So in essence, yes.

At Kansas, remember, IndyCar ran on SATURDAY so that bathplugging NASCAR TRUCKS could race SUNDAY.

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 24 Dec 2011, 09:59

Cynon wrote:Kentucky's departure is a surprise

Explain please, if you don't mind.

Sorry if I seem to be an arse at times...

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 24 Dec 2011, 11:16

Cynon wrote:
dr-baker wrote:
nome66 wrote:it's a little street heavy. oval in rockingham, uk please!

As a double-bill with Eurospeedway Lausitz! Or a double bill of Monza and Brands Indy!

ANYTHING but Brands Hatch's Indy course...

Admittedly, Champ Car's race round there was not great (I was there!) but that was just as much to do with the lousy pit-stop windows than the track or the cars.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 24 Dec 2011, 22:16

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:
Cynon wrote:Kentucky's departure is a surprise

Explain please, if you don't mind.

Because there's been no word about Kentucky leaving at all. Yeah, there was speculation that the mile and a half tracks were getting reviewed, but those talks died down, leaving me to assume that Kentucky was safe.

I think NASCAR scheduled another Nationwide Series race there, which after thinking about it, makes a bit more sense. Oh yeah, who's running the Nationwide Series full-time next year? DanicaDanicaDanicaDanicaDanica... :roll:

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 25 Dec 2011, 11:50

Cynon wrote:
Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:
Cynon wrote:Kentucky's departure is a surprise

Explain please, if you don't mind.

Because there's been no word about Kentucky leaving at all. Yeah, there was speculation that the mile and a half tracks were getting reviewed, but those talks died down, leaving me to assume that Kentucky was safe.

I think NASCAR scheduled another Nationwide Series race there, which after thinking about it, makes a bit more sense. Oh yeah, who's running the Nationwide Series full-time next year? DanicaDanicaDanicaDanicaDanica...

In my mind, it isn't such a surprise, considering how empty the place was this year. The problem IndyCar has, is that (minus some rather troubling safety issues) they do have good races, plenty of them this year, but they either lose tracks (that's what you get, Mr. Penske, when you sell all your tracks and interests to ISC), or have no spectators turn up. I recall they had to give away a ridiculous amount of tickets for the Vegas finale, and not that many turned up anyway. The only 2 ovals which I recall had any good turnup were Indy and iowa.

Hello Mr. George.