2012 Silly Season

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 06 Dec 2011, 23:10

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 06 Dec 2011, 23:37

Wizzie wrote:Ricciardo to Caterham anyone?

I wouldn't complain to be honest. Hopefully the car is decent enough so if he does sign, he gets a proper chance.

Go home Jarno Trulli, I like you, but you need to Hang Up The Keys

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 07 Dec 2011, 00:55

Wizzie wrote:Ricciardo to Caterham anyone?

I love the final paragraph :lol:

I wouldn't mind seeing him in a Caterham (Im gonna hate saying Caterham). He looks like a good prospect and had the beating of Liuzzi. How much would Trulli want as a pay-off though.

RealRacingRoots · Post by **RealRacingRoots** » 07 Dec 2011, 05:35

Ricciardo would be nice at Caterham. He proved his worth in F1 by doing well in the HRT

And with the Caterham name, It got me thinking if Lola has any affiliation with the team now. Because Lola is working with Caterham on the SP/300.R track car. Perhaps it's the way Lola gets back in F1?

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 07 Dec 2011, 11:36

redbulljack14 wrote:
Wizzie wrote:Ricciardo to Caterham anyone?

I wouldn't complain to be honest. Hopefully the car is decent enough so if he does sign, he gets a proper chance.

Go home Jarno Trulli, I like you, but you need to Hang Up The Keys

It is not that ambitious to expect Caterham to crack the lower midfield echelons. It is well known that Trulli is past it (he already was past it since the days of the Trulli trains...). Ricciardo might turn out to be a good bet for this new Caterham, although it is true that Trulli loyally drove the car when it was crap and now that when they are about to be in the midfield he gets the boot. Now that I think of it, it might be slightly unfair.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 07 Dec 2011, 14:30

RealRacingRoots wrote:Ricciardo would be nice at Caterham. He proved his worth in F1 by doing well in the HRT

And with the Caterham name, It got me thinking if Lola has any affiliation with the team now. Because Lola is working with Caterham on the SP/300.R track car. Perhaps it's the way Lola gets back in F1?

Now that's an interesting idea, it's well known that Lola still want to be in F1 following those news articles that came out about a month ago. Maybe as you say this could be their way in? Having said that, Fernandes has built up a strong technical team over there so I wouldn't expect him to just trade that in for a customer Lola chassis. I think if Lola did make the move to F1, it would most likely be with a new team.

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 07 Dec 2011, 17:03

It's easy to be smart now, but the best would've been Trulli retiring after last year respectfully. This year was still not a success for Lotus on his terms, but now he is also constantly outdriven by Heikki, and I can't see anything change that. As Lotus didn't score any points

, Trulli wouldn't have felt to be left out just before the breakthrough.

Anyway, Trulli has this year, that's history now, and probably Ricciardo is a better choice now for Caterham than Trulli. As much as I like Trulli, teams just cannot get emotional when it comes to important decisions, such as driver line-ups. Still, the only thing I don't understand: why did they renew Trulli's contract and reveal him as next year's driver even before Kovalainen?

(And just for the complete picture, I don't think, Trulli has been past it for several years, remember, he was on the podium in Japan 2009. But it is time for him to go IMO, as it is for Barrichello as well.)

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 07 Dec 2011, 22:54

http://italiaracing.net/notizia.asp?id=34089&cat=1

Wow, Grosjean is racing for RenLot next year?

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 08 Dec 2011, 08:35

Nope. It's just a re-post of a rumour.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 08 Dec 2011, 14:17

QuickYoda41 wrote:http://italiaracing.net/notizia.asp?id=34089&cat=1

Wow, Grosjean is racing for RenLot next year?

If that were true, it would make this seem odd...

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 08 Dec 2011, 17:02

Unfortunately, the last sentence is the key there.

(Or Grosjean is really good in keep secrets :lol:

)

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 09 Dec 2011, 06:13

QuickYoda41 wrote:Unfortunately, the last sentence is the key there.

(Or Grosjean is really good in keep secrets )

It's the latter. Definitely the latter

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 09 Dec 2011, 07:09

It's going to make next year's podcasts even more fun to listen to!

Credit to Renault for trying something different and going for such a risky line-up, let's see how it goes.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 09 Dec 2011, 07:26

Shite, I think Grosjean - sorry, I mean GRRRJNNNNN - wins the off-season. He fooled all of us.

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 09 Dec 2011, 07:53

Surprised Renault confirmed the second seat so early, I thought they'd keep their seven hundred drivers hanging on for ages!

Shadaza · Post by **Shadaza** » 09 Dec 2011, 08:00

and here I was hoping for a surprise call up for Ho Ping Tun

jpm · Post by **jpm** » 09 Dec 2011, 09:28

Really chuffed that talent has been promoted over money. Grosjean was beating Petrov in GP2 in 09 before his ill-fated F1 move, and is now even better having won AutoGP despite onot doing the full season in 2010 and last yeard carried a mediocre GP2 team to its first title since 1994 (Jean-Christophe Boullion) in F3000. I would expect Grosjean to be better out of the box than Raikkonen, who hasn't kept his eye in recently, while Grosjean has been driving anything and everything he can. I truly believe he's destined fo big things; Renault could have the most dymanic driver line up next year if Kimi pulls through and regains his motivation. Big expectations to fulfill Renault!

As for Senna and Petrov, I'm not surprised they've been dropped. But what wider implications will this have on the driver market? It probably woun't change the outcome at Force India, but I would expect the two to be in the running for the Williams drive withe Rubens, Sutil and van der Gaarde. I still reckon Toro Rosso will remain unchanged as Ricciardo predicted, and that the latter will be in the second Caterham. So, HRT then? :lol:

madmark1974 · Post by **madmark1974** » 09 Dec 2011, 09:56

Certainly an interesting line up at Renault for next year then, especially if the 'lady driver' gets her reserve seat as rumoured.

I presume they don't want to put Kubica back in the car (especially with Kimi signing) only for him to go somewhere else at the end of the year anyway, ~BIG IF~ he's able to drive at all.

I wonder if Williams are kicking themselves that they re-signed Maldonado, as I would have thought as Petrov as a better driver, and if the funds he brings are of similar levels ...

I wonder if Petrov knew he was on his way out before his little rant about the car and its lack of useful development, or how much significance it actually had on his standing in the team.

jakesanson · Post by **jakesanson** » 09 Dec 2011, 10:06

Grosjean's at Renault. Forget about Petrov and Senna then. Personally, I believe F1 would make much more sense if we had USF1, Porsche and Prodrive Aston Martin there as well as the rumours from the last two seasons suggested. Then my perfect F1 grid for 2012 would look like this:

McLAREN
Lewis Hamilton
Jenson Button

FERRARI
Fernando Alonso
Robert Kubica

RED BULL
Sebastian Vettel
Mark Webber

MERCEDES
Paul Di Resta
Nico Rosberg

LOTUS
Kimi Raikkonen
Bruno Senna

WILLIAMS
Rubens Barrichello
Romain Grosjean

SAUBER
Kamui Kobayashi
Sergio Perez

FORCE INDIA
Nico Hulkenberg
Karun Chandhok

TORO ROSSO
Jaime Algersuari
Daniel Ricciardo

CATERHAM
Heikki Kovalainen
Takuma Sato

MARUSSIA
Timo Glock
Vitaly Petrov

HRT
Sebastien Buemi
Narain Karthikeyan

USF1
Robert Wickens
Felipe Massa

PORSCHE
Michael Schumacher
Adrian Sutil

PRODRIVE ASTON MARTIN
Anthony Davidson
Lewis Williamson

jakesanson · Post by **jakesanson** » 09 Dec 2011, 10:12

I also have a great idea for 2012. What if the teams took all three drivers into practice, and the two who set the fastest time get to compete in qualifying. So for instance, if Grosjean or Raikkonen messed up in practice, that would give third driver (hopefully Maria de Villota) the chance to race!

S951 · Post by **S951** » 09 Dec 2011, 12:36

so of the big hitters left petrov, rubens, senna that come to mind right away that need seats rumour or oetrov to mvr to replace glock who in turn poss go to williams! or rubens to hrt

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 09 Dec 2011, 14:06

jakesanson wrote:FERRARI
Fernando Alonso
Robert Kubica

Oh, if only. But Petrov at Marussia? He clearly should go to Williams, they need money and a solid driver, and Petrov ticks both of those boxes.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 09 Dec 2011, 15:08

jakesanson wrote:Grosjean's at Renault.

wwwwwwwwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhhhhAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTT???????????????????????????????????????

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 09 Dec 2011, 15:29

What a tweeeeest~! Somehow I have the feeling, this silly season will throw up something big once more. But the fact that they can afford to release Petrov means that Räikkönen must bring major sponsorship. Hah! Räikkönen is a pay-driver ... pathetic. :lol:

jakesanson · Post by **jakesanson** » 09 Dec 2011, 20:09

I like to think that my 2012 grid (above) is the best F1 grid since the 80s, but I personally am pleased that Grosjean got Lotus. Part of me believes that Rubens still deserves to be in F1, especially if Michael and Pedro are still there who are WAY less deserving.

No matter who you put at Williams I think this is the beginning of the end. Petrov has been poor since Sepang, and has barely ever impressed me. Reminds me of Pedro Diniz. Hope he doesn't go there.

Di Resta and Hulkenberg for Force India if there's any justice. Petrov is Russian, so is Marussia. Stick him at the back where he can do no harm.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 09 Dec 2011, 21:51

jakesanson wrote:No matter who you put at Williams I think this is the beginning of the end. Petrov has been poor since Sepang, and has barely ever impressed me. Reminds me of Pedro Diniz. Hope he doesn't go there.

I think part of that has been obscured by the car's awfulness over the back half of the season, we have seen drivers in the past lose interest when the car's not really beneath them - Kubica in 2009 is a good example of this. I think Petrov could shine at Williams - he's been improving his consistency over the last year, and he has shown that he can pull some top-line efforts out of the bag - China, Turkey, Hungary, Belgium, and Abu Dhabi last year were all excellent drives, as well as Australia, Canada, and Japan this year, as was Korea until he hit Schumacher (he was in line to fight the Mercedes' for 7th, which, given the car's stagnation and the fact that his teammate was beaten by Kovalainen's Lotus, is no mean feat).

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 09 Dec 2011, 22:05

GGGRRRRSSSSJJNNN = Talentless hack

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 10 Dec 2011, 01:49

jakesanson wrote:Personally, I believe F1 would make much more sense if we had USF1, Porsche and Prodrive Aston Martin there as well as the rumours from the last two seasons suggested.

As has been well-documented, USF1 was compeltely mis-mamanged.

There was never any substantial evidence that Porsche would join Formula 1.

And Prodrive had their chance back in 2008. They blew it by banking on a set of regulations that were unconfirmed and having no back-up plan for when they were rejected.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 10 Dec 2011, 02:29

So this leaves Toro Rosso with 2 seats. Force India with 2. HRT with 1 and Williams with 1.

Toro Rosso look like keeping Buemi and Alguersuari (so they should). Hulkenberg, Sutil and Di Resta are fighting over Force India. At Williams they have the choice of Barrichello, another pay-driver, maybe now Senna and Petrov. HRT? Could be anyone really. Seats are running out. Eager to hear from Force India now.

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 10 Dec 2011, 04:58

Apparently Force India may be at the Contracts Recognition Board, which indicates they may be planning a late surprise to sack Di Resta or Hulkenberg to keep Sutil.

Klon wrote:What a tweeeeest~! Somehow I have the feeling, this silly season will throw up something big once more. But the fact that they can afford to release Petrov means that Räikkönen must bring major sponsorship. Hah! Räikkönen is a pay-driver ... pathetic.

As well as any of Kimi's sponsors, Grosjean has kept Total with the team.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 10 Dec 2011, 05:07

Ed24 wrote:Apparently Force India may be at the Contracts Recognition Board, which indicates they may be planning a late surprise to sack Di Resta or Hulkenberg to keep Sutil.

A visit to the CRB usually means that a driver thinks he's been given the short end of the stick. My guess is that Adrian Sutil feels short-changed - since he clearly doesn't know what is happening next year, despite Vijay Mallya promising to make a decision on his driver line-up in time for the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix; Sutil described it as "ridiculous" that he had no contract in place after his 2011 performances - and is now trying to save his seat because he thinks Mallya broke a promise and there is a danger of being without a drive because ot it.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 10 Dec 2011, 06:16

Captain Hammer wrote:
Ed24 wrote:Apparently Force India may be at the Contracts Recognition Board, which indicates they may be planning a late surprise to sack Di Resta or Hulkenberg to keep Sutil.

A visit to the CRB usually means that a driver thinks he's been given the short end of the stick. My guess is that Adrian Sutil feels short-changed - since he clearly doesn't know what is happening next year, despite Vijay Mallya promising to make a decision on his driver line-up in time for the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix; Sutil described it as "ridiculous" that he had no contract in place after his 2011 performances - and is now trying to save his seat because he thinks Mallya broke a promise and there is a danger of being without a drive because ot it.

Don't forget the tussle SOOPA AGURI and Spyker had over Geido van der Garde some years ago because of the amount of cash he brought...

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 10 Dec 2011, 07:39

I believe that episode had something to do with van der Garde signing a pre-contract with Spyker, and then signing a race contract with Super Aguri when he did not get a race with the first. The CRB would have forced him to honour the Spyker contract.

S951 · Post by **S951** » 10 Dec 2011, 19:13

not surprising VJM pulling this one again

Post by **mario** » 10 Dec 2011, 20:19

Captain Hammer wrote:
jakesanson wrote:Personally, I believe F1 would make much more sense if we had USF1, Porsche and Prodrive Aston Martin there as well as the rumours from the last two seasons suggested.

As has been well-documented, USF1 was compeltely mis-mamanged.

There was never any substantial evidence that Porsche would join Formula 1.

And Prodrive had their chance back in 2008. They blew it by banking on a set of regulations that were unconfirmed and having no back-up plan for when they were rejected.

In retrospect some have even suggested that USF1 was not only subject to mismanagement but fraud too (Lopez and his management team did accuse Anderson and Windsor of deceiving the FIA and the companies investing in the team, though whether or not that is true is another matter).

As for Porsche, not only would they be extremely careful about entering the sport in any capacity following the overweight lump of junk that was the Porsche 3512 engine, and the damage to their reputation that was caused by that fiasco (true, to be fair the Footwork chassis was somewhat mediocre too, and the development budget was pretty limited, but even allowing for that it was a poor effort). Moreover, given that Porsche has been ever more tightly drawn into the VW Group, it'd be difficult to see them entering the sport without the blessing of VW (given that the VW Group basically bribed Porsche out of the LMP1 class at Le Mans and only wants them back in the LMP1 class to cover off Toyota's petrol-hybrid entry), and we know that VW's rather brusque attitude towards the other manufacturers in F1 and abrupt withdrawal from the turbo engine negotiations has damaged relations between VW and the F1 world considerably.

And finally, we get to Prodrive - I do not entirely discount the possibility that Prodrive would consider making some sort of return to F1 in the future, but given that Richards was badly burned back in 2008 after Williams forced them out, the only involvement I can see him wanting to take up would be as an external consultant (as was the case at BAR before Honda bought the team and cut all ties with Prodrive back in late 2004). As things stand, though, even that is unlikely in the short term, given that Prodrive seems more preoccupied with their involvement in the Mini WRC program right now.

In fact, thinking about it, one thing that is missing right now is talk of new entries into Formula 1 - given that there is still one space available on the grid for a new team, should somebody wish to enter, it does seem as if the initial interest that there was in 2010 has rapidly petered out. OK, I know that the FIA has now stepped up its rules for new entries quite significantly because of USF1 and Campos (because without Carabantes stepping in as he did, HRT, as it stands today, would have collapsed in a way that would have made USF1 look good), but even so, it's a little worrying for the sport that the ACO has been more successful in rallying manufacturers to Le Mans (with Toyota joining up next year, Nissan committing itself to a new engine program, Porsche returning to the top class (albeit mainly because of VW), and talk some time ago of a possible return for Jaguar).

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 10 Dec 2011, 21:05

mario wrote: ... it's a little worrying for the sport that the ACO has been more successful in rallying manufacturers to Le Mans (... talk some time ago of a possible return for Jaguar).

With or without Williams? (Thinking of the connection between the two via Williams Hybrid Power)

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 10 Dec 2011, 22:58

The latest rumour for the silly season is that Sauber will drop Kamui Kobayashi and replace him with Jules Bianchi. If this is true, then now that Sauber is out of FOTA, they're no doubt looking to consolidate their position by shelter in the arms of Ferrari, the most stable team on the grid.

mario wrote:In retrospect some have even suggested that USF1 was not only subject to mismanagement but fraud too (Lopez and his management team did accuse Anderson and Windsor of deceiving the FIA and the companies investing in the team, though whether or not that is true is another matter).

There was never any evidence of fraud. Most of that was just fans who despised Peter Windsor and Ken Anderson, and assumed that the only way USF1 had been granted an entry was through criminal activity - and that was mostly because everyone assumed Lola and Prodrive would be accepted to the grid, but neither were; to their minds, Windsor and Anderson had to have committed some kind of fraud. USF1 may have over-stated their ability to get onto the grid as time went on once their entry had been accepted, but there has never been any proof of criminal intent.

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 10 Dec 2011, 23:14

Captain Hammer wrote:The latest rumour for the silly season is that Sauber will drop Kamui Kobayashi and replace him with Jules Bianchi. If this is true, then now that Sauber is out of FOTA, they're no doubt looking to consolidate their position by shelter in the arms of Ferrari, the most stable team on the grid.

I really hope that'll remain a rumour.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 10 Dec 2011, 23:18

Captain Hammer wrote:The latest rumour for the silly season is that Sauber will drop Kamui Kobayashi and replace him with Jules Bianchi. If this is true, then now that Sauber is out of FOTA, they're no doubt looking to consolidate their position by shelter in the arms of Ferrari, the most stable team on the grid.

It hurts to live

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 10 Dec 2011, 23:48

Well, since we are talking about Bianchi I wouldn't mind it happening too much, but still, it would be harsh to take away the contract from Kobayashi, especially at this stage where there is virtually nothing else available.