Your Reject of the Race - Silverstone!

Dan B · Post by **Dan B** » 10 Jul 2011, 18:11

Everybody bar Ferrari, Virgin, and HRT : McLaren, Sauber, and Force India had disastrous pitstops. Red Bull had a terrible pitstop as well, plus using team orders, which are (as I learned just now) legal, but leave a bad taste in one's mouth. Renault and Mercedes were nonexistant. Lotus didn't see the halfway point of the race. Toro Rosso was just there trundling at the back (though Alguersuari did finish 10th, which is admirable I guess). Williams was back to their anonymous form, and where the hell was Barrichello? The only Williams that got any air-time here on Speed was Maldonado.

The FIA: The penalty against Schumacher was undeserved, and let's not forget the whole blown-diffuser schimozzle.

EDIT: Just read in the British GP thread; yes team orders are legal. I take back what I said.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 10 Jul 2011, 18:38

Dan B wrote:Everybody bar Ferrari, Virgin, and HRT : McLaren, Sauber, and Force India had disastrous pitstops. Red Bull had a terrible pitstop as well, plus using team orders, which are (as I learned just now) legal, but leave a bad taste in one's mouth. Renault and Mercedes were nonexistant. Lotus didn't see the halfway point of the race. Toro Rosso was just there trundling at the back (though Alguersuari did finish 10th, which is admirable I guess). Williams was back to their anonymous form, and where the hell was Barrichello? The only Williams that got any air-time here on Speed was Maldonado.

The FIA: The penalty against Schumacher was undeserved, and let's not forget the whole blown-diffuser schimozzle.

EDIT: Just read in the British GP thread; yes team orders are legal. I take back what I said.

Mercedes had some notable events, Schumacher's unnecessary drive through and fightback, and Rosberg's 6th place. First time he's finished higher than started this season.

Rocks with Salt · Post by **Rocks with Salt** » 10 Jul 2011, 18:52

My DVR/FOX Broadcasting: For starting the race an hour earlier than scheduled and making me miss the first half of the race.

But seriously, considering I only saw the last half, I still don't know what happened with Kobayashi (I haven't even seen a race recap yet), so I can only give it to the pit crews for such bad mismanagement that it made me completely forget about the diffuser-thing.

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 10 Jul 2011, 20:09

Hmmm...no-one seems to be nominating any drivers here so I'll follow suit.

Stewards - when I heard that Mansell was on the panel, my heart sank. So no surprise that Michael gets a penalty, yet Buemi turning in on Di Resta and Hamilton's latest act of stupidity on the final lap although similar are completely ignored. Can't argue with Kobayashi's one admittedly!

Eddie Jordan - I thought he was a breath of fresh air at first, but this man needs to get off the screen NOW. DC has improved since he started appearing on the coverage at the same rate that EJ has got worse. Before the race it was all, 'Oh Ferrari, they've engineered all this diffuser stuff, blah blah'. Yes, whatever Eddie. Then after the race we get the other usual nonsense he always spouts ie Schumacher supposedly driving badly (even after the clip of him showing humility and admitting his one mistake) and how he should retire. Totally bored of it now Eddie, give it a rest. As for his interviews, Jesus. Asking Daniel Ricciardo when he'll be World Champion was particularly, er, special.

To be honest, the Silverstone/Britain/British marshals/McLaren (well, mostly Lewis - you'd never have known JB had more points before today) are great routine by the BBC in general was a bit much. I know it's our home race, but it did go over the line I think.

Oh, and thinking about it, Force India should be nominated too. Ruining Di Resta's race was bad enough, but how did Sutil end up 11th when he seemed to be in the points all race? (unless he made a mistake we didn't see)

Post by **mario** » 10 Jul 2011, 20:52

Barbazza wrote:To be honest, the Silverstone/Britain/British marshals/McLaren (well, mostly Lewis - you'd never have known JB had more points before today) are great routine by the BBC in general was a bit much. I know it's our home race, but it did go over the line I think.

Oh, and thinking about it, Force India should be nominated too. Ruining Di Resta's race was bad enough, but how did Sutil end up 11th when he seemed to be in the points all race? (unless he made a mistake we didn't see)

I agree that the pomp and circumstance was a little OTT - though, to give the BBC some credit, you rarely see anybody give the marshalls any airtime, much less show what happens behind the scenes and how difficult and dangerous their work can occasionally be, so I did enjoy the short film they did about marshalling at Thruxton. And compared to some broadcasters, the relative bombast and nationalism was fairly restrained...

As for Sutil, well, he came really close to passing Alguersuari at the end of the race - he was about 0.6s behind, and had he been four seconds further up the road, he would have been in 8th place (8th to 12th place were covered by under five second). It seems that most of those around Sutil went for a two stop strategy, whereas Sutil went for a three stop strategy, and it seems that the relatively low ambient temperatures and slower than expected lap times meant that the tyres were not wearing out as fast as anticipated.
It was only in the final handful of laps that Sutil started making up the extra time he spent in the pits - had the race been a handful of laps longer, he'd have probably finished in 8th, as he was lapping substantially faster than those around him, but he just came up short.

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 10 Jul 2011, 21:08

mario wrote:I agree that the pomp and circumstance was a little OTT - though, to give the BBC some credit, you rarely see anybody give the marshalls any airtime, much less show what happens behind the scenes and how difficult and dangerous their work can occasionally be, so I did enjoy the short film they did about marshalling at Thruxton. And compared to some broadcasters, the relative bombast and nationalism was fairly restrained...

Fair enough - everyone will see the nationalism a little differently I guess. The only non-UK commentary I've ever heard is from the US, and not surprisingly, I did find that more nationalistic and bombastic!

You're absolutely right about the film about marshals though, I'd forgotten about that and I did enjoy it, especially as I'd seen that BTCC meeting on ITV4 so it was good to see the other side of that (in fairness, ITV even referred to Ted being there on that day!) and it did make me slightly regret that during the entire year I lived right near Donington Park, that I never volunteered.....

Thunderer · Post by **Thunderer** » 10 Jul 2011, 21:21

Bob wrote:I nominate whoever is presenting BBC News right now, who just said that Ferdinand Alonso won the British Grand Prix

BBC's F1 page currently has his name spelled as 'Alsonso'. :mrgreen:

Post by **mario** » 10 Jul 2011, 21:22

Barbazza wrote:
mario wrote:I agree that the pomp and circumstance was a little OTT - though, to give the BBC some credit, you rarely see anybody give the marshalls any airtime, much less show what happens behind the scenes and how difficult and dangerous their work can occasionally be, so I did enjoy the short film they did about marshalling at Thruxton. And compared to some broadcasters, the relative bombast and nationalism was fairly restrained...

Fair enough - everyone will see the nationalism a little differently I guess. The only non-UK commentary I've ever heard is from the US, and not surprisingly, I did find that more nationalistic and bombastic!

You're absolutely right about the film about marshals though, I'd forgotten about that and I did enjoy it, especially as I'd seen that BTCC meeting on ITV4 so it was good to see the other side of that (in fairness, ITV even referred to Ted being there on that day!) and it did make me slightly regret that during the entire year I lived right near Donington Park, that I never volunteered.....

Well, I don't know about American television, but I have seen Italian television during the Italian GP race weekend, and they laid on the nationalism for that, I can tell you.

And I do agree that the film on the marshalls probably was the best part of the build up program - all too often, we've seen how a driver has waived or pushed a marshall away when he has crashed, but for once we got to see what the marshall has to deal with (though, to be fair to Plato, he did have a point that the exposed steel pillar where there was a gap in the fencing for access was dangerous).

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 10 Jul 2011, 21:23

I think loads of other parties were trying to take it off the whole hot-blown whatever-it-is issue, but I think McLaren for the double whammy of Button's wheel nut AND underfilling Hamilton. Ferrari got it for Spain 2009 for something similar IIRC.

Priceless · Post by **Priceless** » 10 Jul 2011, 21:48

Here are my three nominations:

3rd: Hispania Racing - swapped a man who was nearly lapped by Liuzzi on the same car for one that was lapped by Liuzzi on the same car.
2nd: Force India's pit crew - messed up Di Resta's pit stop and put him out of contention.
1st: McLaren's pit crew - loose wheel ended Button's race, and the image of him parking the car near the pit exit summed it up for me.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 10 Jul 2011, 22:42

1st: Red Bull Mechanics for ruining Vettel's day
2nd: Sauber Mechanics for releasing Kobayashi right where Maldonado was coming in

Dishonorable mention: Force India Mechanics for mixing up tyres... I thought this was funny.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 10 Jul 2011, 23:48

Pit mechanics, for ruining several drivers' races. Particularly Force India's, which did an Eddie Irvine job on di Resta and costed him the chance to inch closer to unrejectification with the good ol' criteria. Then we have the race stewards for raising ridiculous investigations yet again. Schumacher's was clearly a racing incident. This is an issue that for me is getting worrying. Also, Team Lotus for having both their cars out at the opening stages of the race.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 10 Jul 2011, 23:59

After seeing the F1 Forum on BBC i-player, Eddie Jordan for being a complete hypocrite about the team orders.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 11 Jul 2011, 00:34

My nominations:

McLaren Mechanics: Hamilton had fuel problems and Button left with 3 and a half wheels on his wagon
Team Lotus: Kovy hauls the car into Q2 on merit and then both cars out well before half distance
Sauber minus Sergio Perez: Kobayashi had a horrible race after that off and the pitlane incident just put the exclamation mark on it
Williams: Barry was thrashed by Deadbeat in qualifying. Not that it mattered much as both were lapped by race end.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 11 Jul 2011, 01:46

Renault, Daniel Ricciardo and the FIA for me.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 11 Jul 2011, 03:12

AdrianSutil wrote:Renault, Daniel Ricciardo and the FIA for me.

Why Ricciardo? The BBC guys said it themselves in the forum, he did well considering the position he's in. No offs, mistakes, crashes, but was still reasonably close to his much more experienced teammate, in his first race.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 11 Jul 2011, 03:23

Peter wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:Renault, Daniel Ricciardo and the FIA for me.

Why Ricciardo? The BBC guys said it themselves in the forum, he did well considering the position he's in. No offs, mistakes, crashes, but was still reasonably close to his much more experienced teammate, in his first race.

Plus he was consistently quicker than Tonio on one-lap pace.

GroupLotusRenault · Post by **GroupLotusRenault** » 11 Jul 2011, 05:14

Wizzie wrote:
Peter wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:Renault, Daniel Ricciardo and the FIA for me.

Why Ricciardo? The BBC guys said it themselves in the forum, he did well considering the position he's in. No offs, mistakes, crashes, but was still reasonably close to his much more experienced teammate, in his first race.

Plus he was consistently quicker than Tonio on one-lap pace.

He was less then half a sec off Liuzzi times during the race, which if I remember was the same with their indian driver.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 11 Jul 2011, 05:41

GroupLotusRenault wrote:
Wizzie wrote:
Peter wrote:
Why Ricciardo? The BBC guys said it themselves in the forum, he did well considering the position he's in. No offs, mistakes, crashes, but was still reasonably close to his much more experienced teammate, in his first race.

Plus he was consistently quicker than Tonio on one-lap pace.

He was less then half a sec off Liuzzi times during the race, which if I remember was the same with their indian driver.

And he spent pretty much all of Friday 2-3 tenths quicker than Liuzzi

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 11 Jul 2011, 09:14

I like him, but I'm nominating Damon Hill for saying that drivers should always be allowed race and it's very serious for a driver to be told not to overtake.

Unless you're 1-2 in a race in 1998 in Belgium, eh Damon? Didn't mind "Ralf, you cannot overtake Damon. That is a team order" then did you? Actually you prompted that order from Eddie Jordan now that I think of it. At least Eddie is consistent in thinking it's okay to do that.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 11 Jul 2011, 11:52

The pit crews were terribly poor this time. So I nominate them.

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 11 Jul 2011, 15:41

Williams - Even with the new exhaust rules, they were still very disappointing. Maldonado still hasn't finished one race on the lead lap!

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 11 Jul 2011, 15:57

Lollipop Men

Several Unsafe Releases, maybe they got caught up in the "new pits" and thought they were gods.

nigellamansell · Post by **nigellamansell** » 11 Jul 2011, 19:26

I'm going to be controversial and select Webber...after what happened in Instanbul last season there was no way Horner was going to allow them to risk the points for 2nd and 3rd place. Trying to defy your principal may appeal to the old school racer in Webber but he's gotta appreciate that not only is Vettel miles ahead in the driver's table but by telling Webber to back off means RBR have all but retained the constructors championship.

Anybody who criticises Horner is missing the point...I'm not a fan of his (the blown diffuser lobbying this week has been very annoying) but any team manager would have told him to back off (Jordan telling Ralf not to attempt to overtake Damon at Spa in '98 being a case in point)

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 12 Jul 2011, 00:19

my ROTR is redbull. simple really.
Right in the middle of their Juggernaut season at one of the two most important races(the other would be monaco) they make wierd and/or poor decisions.
the cockup in the pit lane and pissing mark webber off with team orders WHILE HE IS MAKING WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN AN IMPRESSIVE PASS. i have wanted to see mark finish ahead of seb all season and they ruined it.
lol one thing:: i watched the broadcast on FOX channel and they had live radio calls between drivers and teams and what not. one caught my ear.

RBR- "mark, keep your distance. maintain the gap"
Mark- "fu-" they cut the radio feed on the broadcast before he finished what he was saying.
i wonder what he had to say....

GroupLotusRenault · Post by **GroupLotusRenault** » 12 Jul 2011, 00:27

Webber Yes he has the righ to race, but this has happen to often now, starting on pole is one thing, but you gotta to be the best on Sunday and he has shown that he is not as quick as Vettel and maybe its time to let someone younger take No.2 in Red Bull

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 12 Jul 2011, 03:19

Wizzie wrote:
Why Ricciardo? The BBC guys said it themselves in the forum, he did well considering the position he's in. No offs, mistakes, crashes, but was still reasonably close to his much more experienced teammate, in his first race.

then can evryone explain to me how he ended up nearly 80 seconds behind Liuzzi in a 52 lap race? And don't say it was the 'changing conditions.

the Masked Lapwing · Post by **the Masked Lapwing** » 12 Jul 2011, 04:24

AdrianSutil wrote:
Wizzie wrote:
Why Ricciardo? The BBC guys said it themselves in the forum, he did well considering the position he's in. No offs, mistakes, crashes, but was still reasonably close to his much more experienced teammate, in his first race.

then can evryone explain to me how he ended up nearly 80 seconds behind Liuzzi in a 52 lap race? And don't say it was the 'changing conditions.

Because it was his first race, in a car he'd never driven before. Liuzzi, on the other hand, has been driving that crapbox all year, and has a few years experience under his belt.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 12 Jul 2011, 04:26

AdrianSutil wrote:
Wizzie wrote:
Why Ricciardo? The BBC guys said it themselves in the forum, he did well considering the position he's in. No offs, mistakes, crashes, but was still reasonably close to his much more experienced teammate, in his first race.

then can evryone explain to me how he ended up nearly 80 seconds behind Liuzzi in a 52 lap race? And don't say it was the 'changing conditions.

Well, it was chancing conditions, and Daniel was going too slow when being lapped, slowing down very early etc...

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 12 Jul 2011, 09:33

I nominate Pastor Maldonado and Paul di Resta. Both had fantastic qualifying sessions. Both had abysmal (albeit for different reasons) races.

Post by **Londoner** » 12 Jul 2011, 10:08

My honourable mention is Williams for being absolutely anonomus throughout the race, bar the Maldonado/Kobayashi fight, and Maldonado slipping back into midfield mediocracy after qualifying on the 4th row.

KL-racer · Post by **KL-racer** » 12 Jul 2011, 22:26

My ROTR goes to Red bull's team order to webber! Simply put, if I was webber I would be out of there at the end of the year!
Honorable mention goes to the Mclaren pit crew! Button's car was released even before the front-right tire changer put the nut on his car!

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 13 Jul 2011, 17:35

For me, Team Orders (Not only Red Bull did it. Ferrari delayed last pitstop of Massa for help Alonso building gap for Vettel and Hamilton) and Pit crews.

special mention to Damon Hill's hypocrisy.

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 13 Jul 2011, 17:53

what did damon hill say? i don't get the bbc broadcasts here in the states.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 14 Jul 2011, 12:11

That drivers should be allowed to race - but then again, he said that the best for team, would be to hold positions in Belgium 1998.

I feel people don't see the difference from a driver in-race view, and the view of a viewer, or a man that have DH's job. I also don't see the difference, the best for the team, is to not fight, and risk anything. The best for driver in front, is not to fight and risk anything. The best for the viewers, fight.
DH, said something like "If we fight, we can end up loosing everything, if we hold positions, we get a 1-2, it's up to you Eddie".

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 15 Jul 2011, 16:39

Myrvold wrote:DH, said something like "If we fight, we can end up loosing everything, if we hold positions, we get a 1-2, it's up to you Eddie".

There's some off-the-official-broadcast footage... somewhere... (maybe the 1998 season review? I'll have to look again...) where Damon says something more along the lines of "if Ralf tries to pass me, I will bash him off the track!" And it's as clear as a North Korean motorway.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 15 Jul 2011, 17:56

Myrvold wrote:That drivers should be allowed to race - but then again, he said that the best for team, would be to hold positions in Belgium 1998.

I feel people don't see the difference from a driver in-race view, and the view of a viewer, or a man that have DH's job. I also don't see the difference, the best for the team, is to not fight, and risk anything. The best for driver in front, is not to fight and risk anything. The best for the viewers, fight.
DH, said something like "If we fight, we can end up loosing everything, if we hold positions, we get a 1-2, it's up to you Eddie".

Well that incident wwaas different, as that was Jordan sailing (literally) to their maiden win, in 1-2 fashion, and they certainly wouldn't want to lose that, letting Ralf and Damon race was a risk that no one would be willing to take, as they would lose everything, the one in a lifetime moment, all gone because of a collision.

Here, it was a battle for 2nd place, Vettel the furthest ahead in the championship any driver has ever been. Not much to lose here, in a dry race, I must add.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 15 Jul 2011, 19:52

dinizintheoven wrote:
Myrvold wrote:DH, said something like "If we fight, we can end up loosing everything, if we hold positions, we get a 1-2, it's up to you Eddie".

There's some off-the-official-broadcast footage... somewhere... (maybe the 1998 season review? I'll have to look again...) where Damon says something more along the lines of "if Ralf tries to pass me, I will bash him off the track!" And it's as clear as a North Korean motorway.

Heard the talk about that as well. But the clip on youtube that seems to be from the review, it isn't said.

eagleash · Post by **eagleash** » 15 Jul 2011, 22:07

Briefly returning to topic. I vote McLaren for ruining the race of both their drivers.

Right. Carry on.