de la Rosa to Sauber - CONFIRMED

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 03 Jan 2010, 21:41

So say the rumors right now. I'm surprised Peter Sauber would pick de la Rosa as he hasn't been impressive and is 39. Kamui should beat him or else his reputation will take a beating.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 03 Jan 2010, 21:44

Disappointed.

Really, why would you pick de la Rosa when you could pick Heidfeld?

Unless Heidfeld is going somewhere else...

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 03 Jan 2010, 21:44

This can't be good for Campos... unless I missed something with them.

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 03 Jan 2010, 21:47

With Sauber acquiring Ferrari engines again I assumed theyd be given Fisichella.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 03 Jan 2010, 21:48

Is Sauber acquiring Campos engines then?

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 03 Jan 2010, 21:50

thehemogoblin wrote:Is Sauber acquiring Campos engines then?

Nope. de la Rosa engines.

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 03 Jan 2010, 21:52

Sauber aquiring Seat turbodiesel engines.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 03 Jan 2010, 21:54

Are diesel engines actually legal in F1?

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 03 Jan 2010, 21:56

thehemogoblin wrote:Are diesel engines actually legal in F1?

Nothing is legal in F1 if it's actually used in real cars.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 03 Jan 2010, 21:58

shinji wrote:
thehemogoblin wrote:Are diesel engines actually legal in F1?

Nothing is legal in F1 if it's actually used in real cars.

Oh yeah, then why do they have steering wheels? Shouldn't they just have topsails or something?

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 03 Jan 2010, 21:59

thehemogoblin wrote:
shinji wrote:
thehemogoblin wrote:Are diesel engines actually legal in F1?

Nothing is legal in F1 if it's actually used in real cars.

Oh yeah, then why do they have steering wheels? Shouldn't they just have topsails or something?

They're not even steering wheels anymore. They're steering devices. Who has a steering device in their car? Not me, or my mum.

FloProAct · Post by **FloProAct** » 03 Jan 2010, 22:07

They're not even steering wheels anymore. They're steering devices. Who has a steering device in their car? Not me, or my mum.

And they're square, so they have more in common with an Austin Allegro than any other car......

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 03 Jan 2010, 22:09

FloProAct wrote:
They're not even steering wheels anymore. They're steering devices. Who has a steering device in their car? Not me, or my mum.

And they're square, so they have more in common with an Austin Allegro than any other car......

Did you call an Austin Allegro a car?
You must be in a very complimentary mood today.

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 03 Jan 2010, 22:11

Sauber-Yugo lol

or should it be StefanGP-Yugo

FloProAct · Post by **FloProAct** » 03 Jan 2010, 22:11

I actually quite like the Allegro. My grandparents used to have one. (They also had a Marina but I think that got hit by a bus)

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 03 Jan 2010, 22:11

thehemogoblin wrote:This can't be good for Campos... unless I missed something with them.

Yeah: while being their preferred option, de la Rosa never had the backing to compete with other drivers like Petrov and Maldonado.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 03 Jan 2010, 22:13

FloProAct wrote:(They also had a Marina but I think that got hit by a bus)

Was this bus owned by a piano removal company by any chance?

Post by **mario** » 03 Jan 2010, 22:20

thehemogoblin wrote:Are diesel engines actually legal in F1?

The rules governing engines are extremely strict - at the moment, petrol is the only allowable fuel (and the regulations go as far as specifying the composition of the fuel, in terms of what organic compounds it can contain, the allowable Research Octane Number and so on). In fact, the rules are explicitly clear in this regard - the only permissible engines are 2,400cc four stroke reciprocating piston engines, with a 90º V configuration, 8 cylinders and four valves per cylinder.
Back on topic, I am confused as to why Sauber would want de la Rosa. After all, in Nick Heidfeld they have a driver who is experienced enough to mentor Kobayashi (which is why de la Rosa is supposedly being brought in for), and as was pointed out earlier, he is not exactly youthful either. Besides, surely it would be better for the mechanics and the team to have some continuity. Besides, if this is the case, then where is Nick going? Renault, back to partner Kubica again? Campos (assuming a pay driver doesn't get there first)? USF1?

Popi_Larrauri · Post by **Popi_Larrauri** » 04 Jan 2010, 01:40

mario wrote:
thehemogoblin wrote:Are diesel engines actually legal in F1?

The rules governing engines are extremely strict - at the moment, petrol is the only allowable fuel (and the regulations go as far as specifying the composition of the fuel, in terms of what organic compounds it can contain, the allowable Research Octane Number and so on). In fact, the rules are explicitly clear in this regard - the only permissible engines are 2,400cc four stroke reciprocating piston engines, with a 90º V configuration, 8 cylinders and four valves per cylinder.
Back on topic, I am confused as to why Sauber would want de la Rosa. After all, in Nick Heidfeld they have a driver who is experienced enough to mentor Kobayashi (which is why de la Rosa is supposedly being brought in for), and as was pointed out earlier, he is not exactly youthful either. Besides, surely it would be better for the mechanics and the team to have some continuity. Besides, if this is the case, then where is Nick going? Renault, back to partner Kubica again? Campos (assuming a pay driver doesn't get there first)? USF1?

Probably they need someone to develop/test alongside newbie Kamui, and despite Heidfeld sound much better, probably De La Rosa is asking for much less money than Nick...

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 04 Jan 2010, 02:12

FloProAct wrote:
They're not even steering wheels anymore. They're steering devices. Who has a steering device in their car? Not me, or my mum.

And they're square, so they have more in common with an Austin Allegro than any other car......

They look like a Playstation controller more than they do a steering wheel. If you want a real steering wheel, get a NASCAR wheel. It's one of the few steering devices in motorsport that is actually a standard wheel with no flat square part of it.

I have to admit, though, the square steering wheels do look kind of neat. Especially the one the Toro Rosso/Red Bull has.

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 04 Jan 2010, 09:52

In the German language F1 media, it is being reported that Peter Sauber wants an experienced driver that has experience with other teams - and he explicitly states that this rules out Nick Heidfeld. I wonder why he changed his mind, having stated a while ago that Heidfeld was his favourite for the drive. Maybe Nick wanted too much money?

TeamTipper · Post by **TeamTipper** » 04 Jan 2010, 10:17

Remember Nick has driven for the team alot. 2001-2003 2006-2009 and maybe he wants a change. However he hasnt done anything in F1 so I dont think any other F1 teams want him. de La Rosa is past his prime (he hasnt raced since 2006) but saying that so did schumacher so maybe De La Rosa does have something. remember he almost won the Hungrey GP in 2006 (finished 2nd)

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 04 Jan 2010, 11:29

Perhaps they want some alliance with McLaren, or even a Mercedes engine deal? Considering little of BMW will remain...

watka · Post by **watka** » 04 Jan 2010, 16:39

TeamTipper wrote:Remember Nick has driven for the team alot. 2001-2003 2006-2009 and maybe he wants a change. However he hasnt done anything in F1 so I dont think any other F1 teams want him. de La Rosa is past his prime (he hasnt raced since 2006) but saying that so did schumacher so maybe De La Rosa does have something. remember he almost won the Hungrey GP in 2006 (finished 2nd)

If they want a change why don't they just go for a pay driver? Either Heidfeld is being an idiot here for demanding too much pay, or Peter Sauber is being an idiot for just dropping him after so many years of loyal service. A month ago we were talking about Heidfeld being in strogn running for Mercedes, and now it looks like he'll be without a drive.

Post by **mario** » 04 Jan 2010, 19:20

Popi_Larrauri wrote: Probably they need someone to develop/test alongside newbie Kamui, and despite Heidfeld sound much better, probably De La Rosa is asking for much less money than Nick...

Nick's salary is not that high - he was said to be on £2.8 million last year, when the average driver was being paid around £5.5 million (although Kubica was on around £1 million). Then again, Sauber have lost quite a large number of sponsors in recent years; Credit Suisse is gone, Petronas has switched to Mercedes (interetingly, they say they switched because they want to stick with a manufacturer team), Intel is said to have cut back it's involvement and, of course, the money from BMW will be going (along with the free engine supply).
Perhaps they really are desperate for money - and although de la Rosa won't bring much in, at least he'll be cheap to hire. But I can't see much logic in the move - surely, the best way to maximise their income next year would be to get a driver who is likely to be able to do a solid job, bring the car home in the points if possible, and maximise their position in the championship (so they get a better cut of the prize money).
This is something that I think Nick would be better placed to do instead of de la Rosa - perhaps a case of short term gain in lower wages, but longer term costs in terms of lost points and prize money?

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 04 Jan 2010, 22:37

Of the races De La Rosa took part in as the REPLACEMENT for Juan Publicocrap Montoya, Pedro only retired in 2 out of 8, 5 of those were points paying positions, for a McLaren team that was on the mend, Sauber are definately on the mend, it would seem like a good choice.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 04 Jan 2010, 22:53

De La Rosa has denied the connection to Sauber:
http://f1complete.com/news/2009-news/15759-de-la-rosa-denies-sauber2010-reports

Another news report said that he won't drive for Sauber due to the fact that he lacks the necessary funding. But if the team, like Sauber has stated, want an expierienced driver with sponsorship, who could they possibly get? Heidfeld and DLR don't seem to have enough of it, Davidson has stated the same, Fisichella could be, but I'm not sure if Ferrari, while allowing him to work for other teams, are willing to give him additional money for that. I don't know about Villeneuve's sponsorship levels, but I doubt they will be good enough. With Bourdais it's just the same. Nelson Piquet Jr. apparentely has some money but is a person "non grata" in F1 (and as far as I'm concerned, this is a good thing). Takuma Sato could have enough sponsorship, even with the Japanese economy suffering like anyone else's, but that opens the question of would Sauber go for two Japanese drivers? Ralf Schumacher has assumingly the same problem as Heidfeld and DLR, but he has more financial potential than these two guys...

Difficult, difficult - and on the other hand, a denial in F1 is a confirmation. We'll have to wait and watch and I sure hope it's not De La Rosa. Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike him, but in my post are at least four drivers who should get the job rather than him, seeing as they don't have one, even though they should.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 05 Jan 2010, 01:31

Free engines would be a LOT of sponsorship money that Fisichella would, in effect, bring in.

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 05 Jan 2010, 02:20

Klon wrote:Takuma Sato could have enough sponsorship, even with the Japanese economy suffering like anyone else's, but that opens the question of would Sauber go for two Japanese drivers?

This. If Peter Sauber hires Sato I will personally fly over to Switzerland and give him a big fat kiss.

frongor · Post by **frongor** » 05 Jan 2010, 07:54

LionZoo wrote:
Klon wrote:Takuma Sato could have enough sponsorship, even with the Japanese economy suffering like anyone else's, but that opens the question of would Sauber go for two Japanese drivers?

This. If Peter Sauber hires Sato I will personally fly over to Switzerland and give him a big fat kiss.

I will follow you!

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 05 Jan 2010, 11:52

So Sauber has said previously that he doesn't want Klien in the car, neither does he want Heidfeld now, but he wants an experienced driver. Pedro DLR denies connections with Sauber. Fisichella would be a good possibility, but he doesn't exactly bring experience with other front-running teams, since the Sauber C-29's gearbox and engine will be from Ferrari as well. So that leaves the old Brawn GP test driver Alexander Wurz, who might have left some money from his days as head of Team Superfund to buy himself a ride. How is that for a wild guess?

Personally, I'd pick Fisichella over Wurz at this stage in their careers.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 05 Jan 2010, 11:56

Fisichella seems clearer because he could provide Sauber with good Ferrari engines...if he's released from his testing duties, that is.

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 05 Jan 2010, 13:02

Who is to say that kobayashi doesn't come to sauber with a supply of Toyota engines?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 05 Jan 2010, 13:52

Phoenix wrote:Fisichella seems clearer because he could provide Sauber with good Ferrari engines...if he's released from his testing duties, that is.

What testing duties? Yes he's a test driver, but 2009 proved that this is hardly an arduous, time-consuming activity any more...

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 05 Jan 2010, 14:45

Phoenix wrote:Fisichella seems clearer because he could provide Sauber with good Ferrari engines...if he's released from his testing duties, that is.

Ferrari already have the Ferrari engines, so that theory's irrelevant.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 05 Jan 2010, 14:52

shinji wrote:
Phoenix wrote:Fisichella seems clearer because he could provide Sauber with good Ferrari engines...if he's released from his testing duties, that is.

Ferrari already have the Ferrari engines, so that theory's irrelevant.

But it would be a matter of having to pay for them or not.
Sauber announced that he will announce his driver soon and that it will be a "surprise". I have a bad feeling about this.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 05 Jan 2010, 14:56

Klon wrote:
shinji wrote:
Phoenix wrote:Fisichella seems clearer because he could provide Sauber with good Ferrari engines...if he's released from his testing duties, that is.

Ferrari already have the Ferrari engines, so that theory's irrelevant.

But it would be a matter of having to pay for them or not.
Sauber announced that he will announce his driver soon and that it will be a "surprise". I have a bad feeling about this.

Hmmmm... Ho Pin Tung? Villeneuve?

HWNSNBM?

Edit - What am I thinking, who else could it be but the Ferrari-backed, recent driver Luca Badoer?

Alianora La Canta · Post by **Alianora La Canta** » 05 Jan 2010, 16:50

Fisichella seems clearer because he could provide Sauber with good Ferrari engines...if he's released from his testing duties, that is. {Phoenix - 6 comments ago}

Luca di Montezemelo specifically announced that Giancarlo could dovetail a race campaign with his testing duties the Monday before Monza. The fact that Sauber has Ferrari engines (as opposed to Force India's Mercedes engines, which I gathered stopped a deal taking place there) opens the door. However, the fact that Giancarlo would still be third driver at Ferrari means that Ferrari would be paying him... ...meaning that Sauber wouldn't have to.

As a result, price-wise Giancarlo can effectively undercut Nick and de la Rosa would need to bring in more sponsorship as he wanted back in salary in order to be cheaper. That's before considering that Pedro isn't as fast as Giancarlo and therefore logically worth less money in the first place.

Post by **mario** » 05 Jan 2010, 17:28

Alianora La Canta wrote:Fisichella seems clearer because he could provide Sauber with good Ferrari engines...if he's released from his testing duties, that is. {Phoenix - 6 comments ago}

Luca di Montezemelo specifically announced that Giancarlo could dovetail a race campaign with his testing duties the Monday before Monza. The fact that Sauber has Ferrari engines (as opposed to Force India's Mercedes engines, which I gathered stopped a deal taking place there) opens the door. However, the fact that Giancarlo would still be third driver at Ferrari means that Ferrari would be paying him... ...meaning that Sauber wouldn't have to.

As a result, price-wise Giancarlo can effectively undercut Nick and de la Rosa would need to bring in more sponsorship as he wanted back in salary in order to be cheaper. That's before considering that Pedro isn't as fast as Giancarlo and therefore logically worth less money in the first place.

Hmm, you may be on to something here. Ferrari could use Fisichella to test the durability and performance drop off of the engines, and Sauber get a dirt cheap but experienced driver who should keep the car out of the barriers, and at least bring the car home.

watka · Post by **watka** » 05 Jan 2010, 19:14

ADx_Wales wrote:Who is to say that kobayashi doesn't come to sauber with a supply of Toyota engines?

Considering that Toyota are no longer supplying engines to Williams, I highly doubt this. There is a question of why they employed Kobayashi in the first place. Sure, he has talent (I'm as much a fan as anyone else), but he is neither experienced (can he develop a car over a season?) nor rich in sponsors. This leaves them in a position where they now have to choose between an expensive experienced driver (which Heidfeld seems to fall under), or a sponsored unknown entity (the likes of Baguette). That makes me think that the above theories about Fisichella are true.