Grand Prix Rejects

1) Perez - this just feels like a complete capitulation and a waste.

2) Sergeant - ... sigh

1) Perez - Absolutely pathetic, could Red Bull do what Mclaren did with Riccardo, and bench him for Lawson?

2) Sergeant - looked hopeless and out of his depth

HM - David Croft for twice trying to say Red Bull had won their sixth consecutive title

HM2) that kiss trophy gimmick, needless and valueless

Sergio Pérez: Ridiculous showing – unimpressive qualifying (though this is nothing new), two crashes, overtaking under the virtual safety car... To think he gets to drive the best car for another year while Lawson is probably on the sidelines...

Hands down Checo

- SC infringement - Passes a driver in SC conditions to get into the pits and then passes more out of the pits. Gets a penalty
- Goes off for a split second
- Hits Magnussen
- Retires from the race
- Has to go and do a lap just to avoid getting a penalty for Qatar
- His teammate wins the race and his team wins WCC despite him scoring 0 points
- Also Lewis is only 33 points behind him in the WDC.

S/O Logan for his mistake in qualifying, the team having to rebuild the car (possible sanctions), gets a 10 sec DTP for that, hits Bottas, gets penalty, retires from the race.

Checo is more egregious cause the SC issue.

(1) Perez - for that bumper car pass on top of everything else

(2) Sargeant - at this rate De Vries will outscore him

1) Perez - God even Bottas/ Rubens were never this bloody bad. Maybe retirement might not be such a bad thing after all.

2) Sergeant - Out of his depth and the team look totally fed up now. Testing beckons....

It’s gotta be Perez I’m afraid, he’s had a good 3 years of boosting up his win and podium stats but it’s time to get someone else, Merc, Ferrari and McLaren will all get stronger and I can’t see him making the end of 2024 if if that’s the case

Sargeant: His form has now got to the point where I’ve seen some people actually wondering if Latifi was all that bad, says it all

HM: Merc team orders: why did they not repeat Sainz’s trick from Singapore? 5th and 6th was as good as it was gonna get and it would have meant both they and Ferrari would score 18 points apiece keeping the gap at 24. But no they need to keep Lord Hamilton happy and as such Ferrari are now 20 behind.

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote: ↑24 Sep 2023, 07:38 It’s gotta be Perez I’m afraid, he’s had a good 3 years of boosting up his win and podium stats but it’s time to get someone else, Merc, Ferrari and McLaren will all get stronger and I can’t see him making the end of 2024 if if that’s the case

Sargeant: His form has now got to the point where I’ve seen some people actually wondering if Latifi was all that bad, says it all

HM: Merc team orders: why did they not repeat Sainz’s trick from Singapore? 5th and 6th was as good as it was gonna get and it would have meant both they and Ferrari would score 18 points apiece keeping the gap at 24. But no they need to keep Lord Hamilton happy and as such Ferrari are now 20 behind.

The reason given is that it basically wasn't effective enough to hold back Sainz, given both Mercedes cars didn't gain a lot when they used DRS and Suzuka in a circuit where it is easier to overtake than the last race in Singapore. Sainz did nearly make a pass using DRS even with Hamilton also having DRS - that was when the team decided that Russell was too slow and was more likely to just back both drivers into passing range of Sainz.

Sergio Perez. While Verstappen drove to another flawless victory, Perez had a nightmare weekend.

-Qualified seven tenths and four places behind Max
-Got caught up in a start collision
-Overtook cars behind the safety car
-Only a few laps into his recovery drive hit Magnussen
-Damaged his car further
-retired from the race
-went back out to serve his penalty
-retired from the race again

Meanwhile, AlphaTauri has three drivers for two seats.

I think Checo has got to cop this one I'm afraid - completely embarrassed. Going back out to serve a penalty (which TBH I don't think should be allowed, the penalty should have to be served in a meaningful situation IMO) was the humiliating icing on the cake!

DHM - Logan Sergeant Smash
DHM - Aston Martin - they're about to get gobbled up by McLaren in the constructors, and Stroll not striking when the iron was hot earlier in the year is going to cost them
DHM - Mercedes in-fighting, not helping themselves against Ferrari in the fight for best of the rest
DHM - the fact that the championship will most likely be decided in a sprint, which sounds a bit of a farce!!

The current Points System:

Thanks to the inclusion of Sprint races (I know there wasn't one in Suzuka) and the points system used for them, Sergio Perez is still mathematically in contention for the title but if in the more-than-likelihood of Max Verstappen finishing 6th or higher in the Sprint race in Qatar, it's all over! How does it reflect on F1 as a whole when we end up in a situation where the title could be secured in what amounts to a qualifying session disguised as a race?

DHM to Perez for basically handing Max the title on a platter even if he still isn't quite out of it yet.

Perez is a The First Slam Dunk IMHO. DHM for Hamilton for almost forcing Russell off at Spoon.

That said, if Merc are back on form next year it'll be nice to see a spicy title fight like those halcyon days of 2014 and 2016.

pi314159 wrote: ↑24 Sep 2023, 09:29 Sergio Perez. While Verstappen drove to another flawless victory, Perez had a nightmare weekend.

-Qualified seven tenths and four places behind Max
-Got caught up in a start collision
-Overtook cars behind the safety car
-Only a few laps into his recovery drive hit Magnussen
-Damaged his car further
-retired from the race
-went back out to serve his penalty
-retired from the race again

Meanwhile, AlphaTauri has three drivers for two seats.

Horner was somewhat sticking the boot in too - when he's saying that the best that came out of the weekend was that Perez was able to serve his time penalty here, rather than having a grid penalty for Qatar, for crashing into Magnussen, you know that it's been a disastrous weekend.

You could also talk about the rather messy team orders for Alpine too - they seem to have switched Ocon and Gasly round late in the race, only to then order Gasly to drop back behind Ocon in a move that seemed to really rile Gasly.

Yeah, hard to look past Perez for his clumsy driving and the ignominy of having to go out again because the team's trying to dodge a penalty in the next race before retiring for good.

And Sargeant has been looking more and more like a hopeless pay driver.

Perez - Good lord was that the single worst performance of anyone all year? Maybe Scott Mclaughlin was right.....

Just had something pop up about Sainz, as it seems he is throwing his team under the bus a bit.

In some of the post-race interviews, he's quoted as saying "they pitted with Charles to secure the position, and I was somewhat sacrificed". However, somebody has found the radio transmissions between Sainz and the pit wall, and it seems that Sainz was telling the team to leave him out after Hamilton pitted - which seems to suggest that he's blaming the team for a decision that he made himself.

Har1MAS1415 wrote: ↑24 Sep 2023, 09:43 The current Points System:

Thanks to the inclusion of Sprint races (I know there wasn't one in Suzuka) and the points system used for them, Sergio Perez is still mathematically in contention for the title but if in the more-than-likelihood of Max Verstappen finishing 6th or higher in the Sprint race in Qatar, it's all over! How does it reflect on F1 as a whole when we end up in a situation where the title could be secured in what amounts to a qualifying session disguised as a race?

DHM to Perez for basically handing Max the title on a platter even if he still isn't quite out of it yet.

I was asked by a colleague after Singapore whether Max could win the title at Suzuka. I spent five minutes trying to work out the number of remaining races, the addition of the fastest lap point, so multiplying the races by 26 instead of 25, then trying to work out how many sprints there would be and where they would be.

We now have a points system which is completely indecipherable to the common person. No brief glance can tell you how many points are up for grabs.

Logan Sargeant - Remember the few weeks where he was looking pretty good for a rookie and was steadily improving? What happened to him?

Sergio Pérez - That was quite possibly the shitest single drive I've seen in a very long time. Any time he was on screen, he was either crashing into someone, holding someone up (including while getting lapped!) or getting released on track to serve his penalties. In an atmosphere where the Red Bull stable's driver management is being discussed more intensely than it has been for about five years, this is the exact opposite of what one would like to see.

Rob Dylan wrote: ↑24 Sep 2023, 19:39

Har1MAS1415 wrote: ↑24 Sep 2023, 09:43 The current Points System:

Thanks to the inclusion of Sprint races (I know there wasn't one in Suzuka) and the points system used for them, Sergio Perez is still mathematically in contention for the title but if in the more-than-likelihood of Max Verstappen finishing 6th or higher in the Sprint race in Qatar, it's all over! How does it reflect on F1 as a whole when we end up in a situation where the title could be secured in what amounts to a qualifying session disguised as a race?

DHM to Perez for basically handing Max the title on a platter even if he still isn't quite out of it yet.

I was asked by a colleague after Singapore whether Max could win the title at Suzuka. I spent five minutes trying to work out the number of remaining races, the addition of the fastest lap point, so multiplying the races by 26 instead of 25, then trying to work out how many sprints there would be and where they would be.

We now have a points system which is completely indecipherable to the common person. No brief glance can tell you how many points are up for grabs.

Pretty much justifies my stance on the current F1 Points System being rejectful then.

God I do miss the time when the points gap simply needed to be number of race meetings left x10 or x25. You knew, it was easy to work out!

To me, the FL points should be open to everybody who starts the race or no one at all. Opening it up to all 20 rewards the likes of Zhou for posting the FL and gives the lower teams something to fight for.

Sargeant and Perez for ROTR.

GT_Forti1 wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 06:52 To me, the FL points should be open to everybody who starts the race or no one at all. Opening it up to all 20 rewards the likes of Zhou for posting the FL and gives the lower teams something to fight for.

Sargeant and Perez for ROTR.

Like it was in the 1950s, without which, Alberto Ascari would have gone from 2 straight titles to zilch in 1954.

GT_Forti1 wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 06:52 To me, the FL points should be open to everybody who starts the race or no one at all. Opening it up to all 20 rewards the likes of Zhou for posting the FL and gives the lower teams something to fight for.

I agree. I wonder what the justification is for limiting it to the top 10?

Row Man Gross-Gene wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 13:16 I wonder what the justification is for limiting it to the top 10?

Its to stop teams from doing what RBR did with Perez this past weekend, but get FL instead of serving a penalty. Checo had a purple sector time for awhile during his out-in-out return.

Wallio wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 19:42

Row Man Gross-Gene wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 13:16 I wonder what the justification is for limiting it to the top 10?

Its to stop teams from doing what RBR did with Perez this past weekend, but get FL instead of serving a penalty. Checo had a purple sector time for awhile during his out-in-out return.

But he could have got the fastest lap and denied Verstappen. Obviously that was not going to happen but suppose the FL was held by a driver from another team who was challenging a team-mate. A point denied is a point scored.

Antonio Giovinazzi or Kevin Magnussen getting a fastest lap point is bad for franchise value, so they are discouraged from doing it by being denied plebian FL points. Only the patricians in the top 3 teams are allowed to set fastest laps, so that when the sponsor-ridden advert comes up to announce who got the fastest lap, it's a recognisable face and not some nobody like Logan Sargeant.

Horrible cynicism aside, I would have thought the 2016 Battersea ePrix would have been justified enough to discourage allowing people gunning for fastest lap points from 12 laps down! Although I do maintain that the Buemi/di Grassi competition was very, very funny, and that, as IceG said, a point denied is a point scored.

Then we get the absurd cases, which are really bad for the franchise value, when the Hasemis and Mazepins of this world score fastest laps and then just have them outright deleted as if Josef Stalin was in charge of race control.