Grand Prix Rejects

So, what has been an open secret for some time has now been resolved, with McLaren now confirming that Piastri will be driving for them in 2023. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mcla ... /10362076/

What is interesting is the detail that McLaren signed their deal with Piastri and lodged their contact with the CRB on the 4th July, about a month before the whole story broke. Not only does it now seem that Alonso's deal with Aston Martin doesn't seem to have really changed things, because Piastri had already signed with McLaren long before that deal was struck, there are claims that, as late as the Hungarian GP, Piastri was still telling the team that he wanted to drive for them and seems to have continued contract talks with them, even though he'd already signed that deal with McLaren.

What seems to have aggravated Alpine is the accusation that Piastri seems to have behaved in a rather deceptive manner, claiming to Alpine that he wanted to drive for them whilst already having a contract with McLaren, which meant Alpine were still allowing Piastri access to their engineering debriefs and to their simulator.

Whilst Alpine has been the target of a number of jibes about how they were careless, there are some who are pointing out that the reputations of both Piastri and McLaren seem to have been tarnished in the paddock as more details are now emerging.

In the case of McLaren, we now know that they were claiming to be supporting Ricciardo and that they were reassuring him that he still had a contract for 2023 for several weeks after they'd privately agreed with Piastri that they were going to boot Ricciardo out. As mentioned previously, O'Ward has implied in public that he feels McLaren mislead him in his contract negotiations by implying that there were opportunities in the F1 team that it now seems they had no intention of offering, and it does seem to paint McLaren in a somewhat deceitful light.

In the case of Piastri, the complaint is that he seems to have been continuing negotiations with Alpine, even after he'd signed for McLaren to deceive them into thinking that he was still interested in them. He's accused of having no intention of telling Alpine he was leaving until he'd finished his testing programme with them and also after he'd been in the simulator testing their 2023 car and in the technical debriefing sessions for their 2023 car, seeming because the goal then became for him to take as much information as possible to McLaren.

One thing is, that there are also rumors that the Piastri-Mclaren deal was initially a test/reserve contract as well, but with options to get upgraded if a seat becomes available.
This would, imply that Ricciardo's fate wasn't sealed 100% but only 99%. So if Danny would have miraculously performed well, or not agree to terminating his contract at all, he probably would have kept his seat. However, both option are pretty unrealistic.

What baffles me the most in this whole story, is that Alpine apparently had only a very basic, yet to be fleshed out, terms sheet with Piastri for 2023 and 2024. Not even a proper contract. This is simply unacceptable.

Not unexpectedly Latifi will no longer be the automatic choice for Last Place

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/lati ... /10373209/

After seeing how Nyck de Vries made him look silly after just stepping into the car, this isn't entirely surprising, but it will be interesting to see who Williams gets into the car instead.

RAK wrote: ↑23 Sep 2022, 12:00 After seeing how Nyck de Vries made him look silly after just stepping into the car, this isn't entirely surprising, but it will be interesting to see who Williams gets into the car instead.

Best choice for Williams at the moment would be Albon and de Vries.

dr-baker wrote: ↑23 Sep 2022, 14:01

RAK wrote: ↑23 Sep 2022, 12:00 After seeing how Nyck de Vries made him look silly after just stepping into the car, this isn't entirely surprising, but it will be interesting to see who Williams gets into the car instead.

Best choice for Williams at the moment would be Albon and de Vries.

There are factors outside of Williams's control at play, because Alpine, Alpha Tauri and Williams all seem to be showing interest in de Vries.

de Vries has confirmed that he has been approached by Marko, as it appears that Alpha Tauri are considering de Vries as a possible candidate if Gasly is picked up by Alpine. https://the-race.com/formula-1/de-vries ... 3-options/

Speaking of Alpine, they have also confirmed that de Vries will be driving for them in a young driver test at the Hungaroring, alongside Doohan and Giovinazzi. The speculation is that, whilst Gasly might be the preferred candidate right now, de Vries is under consideration as a possible alternative at Alpine. https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sport ... 022-09-20/

https://racingnews365.com/exclusive-alp ... om-piastri

"Rossi believes it does not matter who is in the car; the team just need to do a better job of building one."

So there is a chance for Latifi at Alpine then?

IceG wrote: ↑24 Sep 2022, 11:54 https://racingnews365.com/exclusive-alp ... om-piastri

"Rossi believes it does not matter who is in the car; the team just need to do a better job of building one."

So there is a chance for Latifi at Alpine then?

Bring Back Yuji Ide!

Or HWNSNBM maybe?

I'd like to see if Jack Doohan's any good.

Sky F1 reported this morning that these moves are confirmed:

(1) Gasly is going to Alpine for 2023

(2) De Vries is going to Alpha Tauri for 2023

So, after the musical chairs, Ricciardo has no drive and the Williams team has an empty seat...

Feel that's a good move for Gasly, he was going nowhere in the Alpha Tauri especially as Red Bull probably won't get a much better #2 than Checo. Also great De Vries is getting a full time drive but there was the last team I expected - it gives Horner another reason to brag.......

I'm not sure it's completely fair if Schumacher is left out in the cold but I don't think Haas or Williams would be any good for Danny Ric.

Sadly nice guy Danny Ric is out. For me another statistic - a driver who didn't quite make it. His heyday was a very long time ago.

So who will get the Williams seat? Especially if Logan Sargent fails to earn his superlicence?

Hope Hulk to Haas succeeds this time.

Har1MAS1415 wrote: ↑09 Oct 2022, 09:29 So who will get the Williams seat? Especially if Logan Sargent fails to earn his superlicence?

Hope Hulk to Haas succeeds this time.

I would imagine it would be Schumacher in that case - Capito has had a few warm words to say if I recall.

While I'm quite shocked to see the vitriol poured on social media in regards to Hulkenberg being given the seat, I'm not convinced he's what Haas needs given they already have an experienced hand in the form of Magnussen - who knows what the craic is behind the scenes but I'd be more inclined to keep Mick personally.

noiceinmydrink wrote: ↑09 Oct 2022, 10:21

Har1MAS1415 wrote: ↑09 Oct 2022, 09:29 So who will get the Williams seat? Especially if Logan Sargent fails to earn his superlicence?

Hope Hulk to Haas succeeds this time.

I would imagine it would be Schumacher in that case - Capito has had a few warm words to say if I recall.

While I'm quite shocked to see the vitriol poured on social media in regards to Hulkenberg being given the seat, I'm not convinced he's what Haas needs given they already have an experienced hand in the form of Magnussen - who knows what the craic is behind the scenes but I'd be more inclined to keep Mick personally.

I'm surprised about the Hulk to Haas rumours myself but with Mick looking increasingly unlikely to stay there then his only option would be Williams.

Who else is there to come in from outside?
Drugovich is with Aston Martin
Pourchaire is with Alfa Romeo(speaking of which, given Bottas' form in the second half of the season,it's a toss-up as to which of them would be better for the second Alfa seat.I can't see Bottas staying more than one season trundling round at the back of the grid)
Shwartzmann could go to Haas from Ferrari test driver as he's already tested for Haas before...

Ánd as for Williams-maybe a bit leftfield but what about Jamie Chadwick?-already part of the team's structure,3 W-series,an F1 drive would seem to be deserved(well,just as much as Latifi surely)...and it would be a bit of a publicity coup for Williams being a girly in F1 (30 years since one of them graced a Grand Prix track!)

MyHamsterRacedAnOnyx wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 01:04

Ánd as for Williams-maybe a bit leftfield but what about Jamie Chadwick?-already part of the team's structure,3 W-series,an F1 drive would seem to be deserved(well,just as much as Latifi surely)...and it would be a bit of a publicity coup for Williams being a girly in F1 (30 years since one of them graced a Grand Prix track!)

We all know that I would love to see women break into F1 as much as the next person, and Jamie Chadwick is definitely a very talented driver, but I think most drivers would benefit from a year or two in each of F3 then F2 before going to F1, if for nothing but race experience and getting to know the race tracks. Also, if they are not making exceptions for Colton Herta for superlicence points, I suspect they won't for her either.

And yes, 30 years since a woman was last entered for a full race weekend (Giovanna Amati, Brabham, 1992, first few races before being replaced by future champion Damon Hill), but don't forget that Williams put Susie Wolff in the car for a few FP1 sessions around 2015. And it's nearer 45 years since Lella Lombardi actually qualified and started a race.

MyHamsterRacedAnOnyx wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 01:04 Who else is there to come in from outside?
Drugovich is with Aston Martin
Pourchaire is with Alfa Romeo(speaking of which, given Bottas' form in the second half of the season,it's a toss-up as to which of them would be better for the second Alfa seat.I can't see Bottas staying more than one season trundling round at the back of the grid)
Shwartzmann could go to Haas from Ferrari test driver as he's already tested for Haas before...

Ánd as for Williams-maybe a bit leftfield but what about Jamie Chadwick?-already part of the team's structure,3 W-series,an F1 drive would seem to be deserved(well,just as much as Latifi surely)...and it would be a bit of a publicity coup for Williams being a girly in F1 (30 years since one of them graced a Grand Prix track!)

I think Enzo Fittipaldi and Zane Maloney are top unaffiliated junior drivers at the moment. But neither is going to race F1, might get chance to FP1 drives if some team signs them.

dr-baker wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 06:18 but don't forget that Williams put Susie Wolff in the car for a few FP1 sessions around 2015.

I watched her from various spots drive through turns 9-12 at Catalunya during the 2014 Barcelona Test

I don't remember much from that day but I do remember she didn't hold back and after
some laps she appeared to go flat out. I did take some short videos of Wolff driving and of various
other drivers, including Jules Bianchi :'(
I have them on a USB stick somewhere.


On the Hulkenberg rumors I'd rather not see him return. He's a nice guy but it would be a shame to see him further increase his number of races without scoring a podium. He already holds the record by a huge margin and he would most likely break the 200 barrier should he race another season.

Number of Grand Prix without a podium

1. Nico Hulkenberg 181
2. Adrian Sutil 128
3. Pierluigi Martini 118
4. Philippe Alliot 109
5. Pedro Diniz 98

There won't be any Piquet Corner temporarily for next year: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/singa ... /10386294/

Yannick wrote: ↑19 Oct 2022, 16:39 There won't be any Piquet Corner temporarily for next year: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/singa ... /10386294/

At least it's not for permanent.

Har1MAS1415 wrote: ↑19 Oct 2022, 22:46

Yannick wrote: ↑19 Oct 2022, 16:39 There won't be any Piquet Corner temporarily for next year: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/singa ... /10386294/

At least it's not for permanent.

And the notorious asset-recyclers known as Codemasters will keep the classic Singapore in F1 23, because they are too lazy to model an authentic 2023 Singapore allowing us to recreate Crashgate whenever we want.

You heard it here first.

GT_Forti1 wrote: ↑20 Oct 2022, 21:31 And the notorious asset-recyclers known as Codemasters will keep the classic Singapore in F1 23, because they are too lazy to model an authentic 2023 Singapore allowing us to recreate Crashgate whenever we want.

You heard it here first.

It would undeniably be a good thing to be lazy, because that change does indeed suck.

There has been on-off talk of Indycar drivers coming to F1 (Palou, Herta) and vice versa, F1 to Indycar (Latifi, Ricciardo), but none of it seemed remotely plausible or realistic.

Therefore, where did these stories come from? Why are these stories circulating if there's no substance to them? Will there be much move between the series barring the odd one or two here and there like Ericsson and Grosjean?

dr-baker wrote: ↑23 Oct 2022, 13:36Why are these stories circulating if there's no substance to them?

Rather weak attempt to convince the septics that F1 = Indycar so increasing the interest in F1 in the US?

IceG wrote: ↑23 Oct 2022, 14:15

dr-baker wrote: ↑23 Oct 2022, 13:36Why are these stories circulating if there's no substance to them?

Rather weak attempt to convince the septics that F1 = Indycar so increasing the interest in F1 in the US?

I suppose that could explain it?

Here's one that completely got me head-scratching - is Danny Ric SERIOUSLY wanting the go back to the team he chose to leave for pastures new, only to be reserve driver? It seems completely shameful to me. At least Mercedes I would have understood as Hamilton is quite close to retirement age. Even if something does happen to Checo, Max has come on so much since 2018, that I could only see Ricciardo just about matching what Checo is doing!

If Daniel Ricciardo does this then he needs chasing out of F1 with a big stick covered in angry wasps. Tied to one of the wasps is a note that says, in huge letters, "WHERE'S YOUR DIGNITY? WHERE'S YOUR SELF-RESPECT?" and impaled on the stick is another note that says, in equally huge letters, "THERE ARE OTHER MOTORSPORTS OUTSIDE F1, YOU UTTER BRAINLET!

If there's one thing that should be so obvious that it's lit up in neon letters, it's that Red Bull don't need him. Say, Checo decided he's had enough of being Max's lackey and getting the occasional win - who's that who's just joined Alpha Tauri and could do the job just as well? It's Nyck de Vries who can probably piggy-back off the masses of Dutch support and believe that some of it apples to him. It's not as if they were going to get Yuki to do the job.

Seriously, Smiler, it's over. Look back on your performances over the last two years, that day at Monza notwithstanding, and draw the right conclusion. Endurance racing, Indy, touring cars, Super GT, any of them would do - just beware of DTM, which has a habit of chewing up former F1 drivers and spitting them out mercilessly, and Formula E is explicitly not for anyone who's had any success in F1 because the opposite seems to be guaranteed there.

Logan Sargent likely to replace Latifi at Williams if he gets enough points for a superlicence.

Also Porsche linked to buying a stake in Williams. Better bet in the long run than Red Bull if you ask me.

dr-baker wrote: ↑23 Oct 2022, 18:44

IceG wrote: ↑23 Oct 2022, 14:15

dr-baker wrote: ↑23 Oct 2022, 13:36Why are these stories circulating if there's no substance to them?

Rather weak attempt to convince the septics that F1 = Indycar so increasing the interest in F1 in the US?

I suppose that could explain it?

Liberty Media does have some financial interest in IndyCar, given that they have a 30% stake in Meyer Shank Racing, so there is some benefit to them from seeing interest in IndyCar rise if it might lift the value of their investment into MSR.

mario wrote: ↑26 Oct 2022, 07:34
Liberty Media does have some financial interest in IndyCar, given that they have a 30% stake in Meyer Shank Racing, so there is some benefit to them from seeing interest in IndyCar rise if it might lift the value of their investment into MSR.

Thanks Mario. That does make sense and would explain why there is a particular push now to raise Indycar's profile.

dr-baker wrote: ↑23 Oct 2022, 13:36 There has been on-off talk of Indycar drivers coming to F1 (Palou, Herta) and vice versa, F1 to Indycar (Latifi, Ricciardo), but none of it seemed remotely plausible or realistic.

Therefore, where did these stories come from? Why are these stories circulating if there's no substance to them? Will there be much move between the series barring the odd one or two here and there like Ericsson and Grosjean?

Well, there was substance to them - that's the thing. AlphaTauri wanted Herta and hoped the FIA would be lenient enough to grant a superlicence exemption. Palou's now driven an F1 car, and O'Ward's in line for an FP1 drive later on. Plus, Latifi's in talks with IndyCar teams.

So they're plausible and realistic, but for various reasons things haven't quite come off. Cynics might suggest it's market posturing, but F1 teams are genuinely impressed with the likes of Herta and Palou, so nothing's outside the bounds of possibility.