Grand Prix Rejects

1. 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix. An absolute joke of an event. This wasn't racing, this was insanity.

2. Race Control. Pretty obvious they're "race control" in name only. Farcical scenes.

Dishonourable mentions to Kimi Raikkonen (retire old man) and Yuki Tsunoda (retire young man)

1. Race Control - Clown show from A to Z

2. Hamilton fanboys - we all know they will try to sell this as an amazing victory when he had the noticeably superior car

Race Control.
No management of the race or drivers whatsoever.

1) The entire race: Awful, dangerous circuit; abysmal FIA decisions and messy driving from the front runners. An utter farce. Why did Formula One go to Saudi Arabia again?

2) FIA race control: Manifested many of the problems with this wretched race.

Rotr:

1. The event planning. Glacially slow car recoveries, scheduling delays, weird start times. Obvious vision issues not addressed, Masi juggling chaos race control.

2. Mick Schumacher/His Haas. His whole crash started the whole domino run, this was his fault!

1. Max. Not great mate.
2. A blast from the past… Herman Tilke.

1. The Jeddah circuit - This track is one step too far. I'm just glad no one got hurt in the F1 race, and that Pourchaire and Fittipaldi get well soon.

2. Max Verstappen - He's cracking under the pressure. Abysmal and dangerous driving today, this is how you lose championships.

1. The circuit. Too easy to crash, cars unable to be removed when they crash. Plus what it provoked in F2.

2. Race control for losing control of the race

3. TV director for completely ignoring the Ocon/Bottas duel in favour of showing Hamilton and Verstappen driving around on their own.

DHM: the Red Flag Rule.

Max Verstappen - Bottling under pressure in Q3 and tossing away a sure-fire pole are mistakes that can cost you the championship. But then when luck smiles on you and you throw that away by having to give your rival the position not once but TWICE, we begin to question if Max was ever going to win that race. (the answer was no, he wasn't.) Also this might be controversial, but deciding to give your position to Lewis in a very questionable place and manner doesn't help, as someone who has great experience in letting drivers through, there was way better ways of doing that then slowing down on the racing line.

Race control What an absolute clown show, especially the debris, I mean seriously there could've been a serious accident there. Alonso was right to call Masi out on that.

pi314159 wrote:1. The Jeddah circuit - This track is one step too far. I'm just glad no one got hurt in the F1 race, and that Pourchaire and Fittipaldi get well soon.

2. Max Verstappen - He's cracking under the pressure. Abysmal and dangerous driving today, this is how you lose championships.

I was in the middle of typing out my ramblings and then saw that Pi had summed up my thoughts far more succinctly. Jeddah and Max are my nominations.

Saudi Arabia GP: What an utter crapfest that was. It was just one incident after another and no one comes out smelling of roses

The FIA and race control: Say what you will about them in the Schumacher era but they would never have plumbed the depths that they did tonight. Todt needs to take Masi with him on his way out.

Aston Martin: Horrendously slow all weekend and their so called lead driver was involved in 2 accidents. All eyes on 2022 now.

Yuki Tsunoda: That just sums his season up. Flashes of brilliance not converted into tangible rewards and another silly collision. He might be out way before 22 is over at this rate

Max Verstappen: His driving was exciting to watch, but in part for the wrong reasons. Questionable driving on several occasions – considering how bitter the championship battle has been, I really hope we don't see a title-deciding crash in Abu Dhabi...

I was a Damon Hill fan back in the 1990s and was not a Schumi fan then, but I reckon Verstappen is a dirtier driver now than Schumi was then. Worse than Senna and Prost at their worst.

Fetzie wrote:1. The circuit. Too easy to crash, cars unable to be removed when they crash. Plus what it provoked in F2.

2. Race control for losing control of the race

3. TV director for completely ignoring the Ocon/Bottas duel in favour of showing Hamilton and Verstappen driving around on their own.

.

All this as well in my opinion.

Verstappen is just plain dangerous. Say what you like about Hamilton, he's never driven like that with the possible exception of Monaco 2011 but that had nothing to do with a championship battle

And Michael Masi is out of his depth.

I wonder how many thought Schumacher Jnr crashed on purpose to keep is father's record intact? The thought went through my head but there's no way he's have made it that big an accident (Piquet Jnr was innocuous in comparison).

-Bits falling off cars
-Max

but oh a lot rejectful happened

Definitely the TV coverage director, for the last lap shambles.

Race """"control"""" for the absolute insanity this race was.
And, of course, the track. What a shambles.

HM: Wtf Kimi.

(1) The track layout - everything stemmed from that. Even Tilke went for the "the FIA have approved it" cop-out when challenged about the obvious safety issues.

(2) Verstappen - a brilliant, talented driver who collapsed under pressure and drove like he was playing an F1 sim game

1. The FIA Formula 1 World Championship — this was probably not the sport's finest hour.

1. Verstappen - Pick a side of the track. The speed difference in that collision could have been much worse than it was
2. The track - An entire circuit of high-speed blind corners, who could have predicted something weird and dangerous would happen

James1978 wrote:I wonder how many thought Schumacher Jnr crashed on purpose to keep is father's record intact? The thought went through my head but there's no way he's have made it that big an accident (Piquet Jnr was innocuous in comparison).

Seriously? People believe that? So they think he may do it again at the next race and every season going forward until Hamilton retires?

Anyone who's made the correct interpretation of my thoughts (and for the correct reason) on the Formula E thread over the last two seasons - or is it three? - already knows what my Reject Of The Race is.

The track . Pointlessly dangerous. incapable of supporting extended periods of racing. also because it masquerades as a street track ( the longest and fastest) when plainly those are not streets that were driven down by the citizens of Jeddah ( and instead it was built on a vast open area of parking etc for the most part) .

The lack of sportsmanship

1. The circuit - as many others have noted, in the bid to give the venue the gimmick naming of "the world's fastest street circuit", so much of the event felt like an accident waiting to happen.

Whilst we were perhaps fortunate that nobody was seriously injured during the main race, the Formula 2 support race did see Fittipaldi breaking his heel due to a crash. I do hope that we don't see a more serious injury, given that the design and construction programme was extremely rushed and I cannot shake the feeling that more than a few corners have been cut along the way.

2. Race Control - something many feel is a contradiction in terms, as increasingly it feels as if they are not in control of the situation. The popular opinion seems to be that Masi would be out of his depth in a paddling pool, and there is a growing sense of resentment that the rules are being increasingly rewritten to favour more popular drivers.

That seems to be especially the case amongst the drivers - the drivers briefing in Losail was reportedly very acrimonious and basically boiled down to Verstappen versus everyone else when it came to driving standards, and similarly it seems some drivers were very angry about variable enforcement of penalties on drivers who cut the track at Turns 1 and 2.

3. Verstappen - it says a lot that "Mad Max" was reportedly a major trend in social media after that race. It felt as if he was a liability on track - whilst Horner might sing his praises for his "move or we crash" approach, it's getting to the point where an increasing number of people are wondering if Max's attitude towards Hamilton is more about just trying to cause a crash now.

It also says a lot about him that his complaints for getting a penalty for cutting Turns 1 and 2 - which the drivers were explicitly told not to do - was to effectively sulk about how he'd been allowed to get away with it at Turn 4 in Brazil. It shouldn't have been allowed then, and it wasn't allowed now - but, since it seems race control are being lent on to say "let them race" to excuse such behaviour, he's going to keep doing it until it ends badly.

That said, Horner is similarly proving to be such a pain in the backside that I honestly wish somebody finally snaps and just tells him to shove it, and to preferably tell Marko to do the same.

I understand a lot of the frustration with the rules, but I don't think Race Control has control over the rules in the way some people think. It's the stewards who are not uniformly applying the rules. Race control has made plenty of mistakes with when to call safety cars or whether it was safe to race in wet weather and criticism of such is justified. But whether Max gets a penalty or not, or what is allowed in the course of wheel to wheel racing isn't really the purview of Race Control. I realize that race control may conduct drivers meetings and such, but again, the actual rules and the application of penalties are the remit of the stewards unless I misunderstand.

Unless the problem people have is with when or whether safety cars or red flags are called, in which case, yes those decisions were made by race control. There is some possible criticism there. For instance, on safety grounds, there is a case to be made there should have been one more safety car to clear some debris closer to the end of the race.

Hopefully I'm not completely misunderstanding the criticisms, if so, please explain further.

James1978 wrote:I wonder how many thought Schumacher Jnr crashed on purpose to keep is father's record intact? The thought went through my head but there's no way he's have made it that big an accident (Piquet Jnr was innocuous in comparison).

I didn't, but I was very suspicious about Perez accidentally on purpose wandering inbetween 2 cars as if he couldn't work out what was going to happen, and also Tsunoda's baffling crash. All total coincidence that they happened at crucial points for Max though I expect.

1. Race control. What a fiscao all around. Masi had no control on this race.

2. Max Verstappen. Up to this weekend I was in the total belief that he deserved and will win the world championship. Now both beliefs are gone. He wasn't just pushing the limits he was going beyond anything. I'm no hammy fan but if he wins in abu dhabi I won't begrudge him the championship. Also driver of the day??? Seriously?

Hm Horner and Marko. Enough now. Toto had every right to be angry. Not them.

Row Man Gross-Gene wrote:I understand a lot of the frustration with the rules, but I don't think Race Control has control over the rules in the way some people think. It's the stewards who are not uniformly applying the rules. Race control has made plenty of mistakes with when to call safety cars or whether it was safe to race in wet weather and criticism of such is justified. But whether Max gets a penalty or not, or what is allowed in the course of wheel to wheel racing isn't really the purview of Race Control. I realize that race control may conduct drivers meetings and such, but again, the actual rules and the application of penalties are the remit of the stewards unless I misunderstand.

Unless the problem people have is with when or whether safety cars or red flags are called, in which case, yes those decisions were made by race control. There is some possible criticism there. For instance, on safety grounds, there is a case to be made there should have been one more safety car to clear some debris closer to the end of the race.

Hopefully I'm not completely misunderstanding the criticisms, if so, please explain further.

I suppose part of the problem is still considered to come back to questions over Masi's management, in part because his role at the FIA does also include training the stewards and briefing them ahead of the race weekend.

I think there is also a question over whether Masi has been blurring the line between the race director and the stewards, and whether he should have been making some of the decisions he has made.

For example, in Jeddah, when he put forward the proposal to Red Bull for Max to start from third place on the grid in exchange for not referring the incident to the stewards, some have raised the question over whether the regulations actually allowed him to do that, with some suggesting that he might have actually contravened part of the sporting regulations in the process (since the rules suggest that any decision to redress the position should have taken place under green flag conditions, not on the grid).

There is also the question of whether his decision to make that offer to Red Bull to change places on the grid undermined the authority of the stewards to act independently of the race director. Masi has confirmed that he did not consult the stewards before he spoke to Red Bull, instead choosing to make the decision himself and then asked the stewards to accept it retrospectively - again, that has raised questions over whether he was allowed to make such an offer in the first place, let alone the question of whether he should have cut the stewards out of those initial discussions.

Just realised that on nearly any other weekend, Mercedes's Kingspan sponsorship deal might have got some kind of mention on here...

mario wrote:I suppose part of the problem is still considered to come back to questions over Masi's management, in part because his role at the FIA does also include training the stewards and briefing them ahead of the race weekend.

I think there is also a question over whether Masi has been blurring the line between the race director and the stewards, and whether he should have been making some of the decisions he has made.

For example, in Jeddah, when he put forward the proposal to Red Bull for Max to start from third place on the grid in exchange for not referring the incident to the stewards, some have raised the question over whether the regulations actually allowed him to do that, with some suggesting that he might have actually contravened part of the sporting regulations in the process (since the rules suggest that any decision to redress the position should have taken place under green flag conditions, not on the grid).

There is also the question of whether his decision to make that offer to Red Bull to change places on the grid undermined the authority of the stewards to act independently of the race director. Masi has confirmed that he did not consult the stewards before he spoke to Red Bull, instead choosing to make the decision himself and then asked the stewards to accept it retrospectively - again, that has raised questions over whether he was allowed to make such an offer in the first place, let alone the question of whether he should have cut the stewards out of those initial discussions.

I agree the first couple points are problematic, but I'm not sure they warrant the level of discourse that has been occurring around it. It sounds like corporate governance issues to me.

As for the apparent offer with Red Bull, what he did there was the exact correct thing to do. It may have sounded like a negotiation, but it wasn't. It was essentially the same as telling a team during the race to give the place back to avoid penalty, which is done all the time. I really don't see the problem with it, it's safer than doing so under green flag conditions (as we saw later in the race).

They need to improve, for sure, but I think the push for more transparency has hurt them, I like the transparency, but it does show us how things have been working behind closed doors so-to-speak, maybe the general public wasn't ready for that level of transparency yet.

Yeah, I had simply assumed that was Masi saying "you can voluntarily give the places back now before we get back under way, or the stewards will make you do so under green-flag conditions by giving Verstappen a drive-through penalty. Your choice."