Grand Prix Rejects

Probably the first time I've ever started one of these. And I'm kicking it off with a meme.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/italian-gp-wet-tyres-complaints/4532959/

Pirelli F1 boss Mario Isola said the drivers were influenced by the low downforce nature of their set-ups in Monza.

"They come from Spa where they had a completely different level of downforce," he said. "So they're used to a level of grip that is much higher than what they have in Monza.

What the....

I may already have my nomination for RotR.

This is ROTR. No question about it. What the bathplug was that

Is it possible to nominate the entire field for ROTR? Maybe Sainz gets a pass, but everyone else, what a shambles.

I want to remind you that collectively, these teams spend around €2.5bn each year. Look at what that money gives us. Look at it!

F1 has had its fair share of hilariously stupid moments down the years, but that must have been the best of them. Haha! Take that, strategists with your spreadsheets!

More than anything, however, I am annoyed at Paul di Resta's utterly insipid, PR-man post-qualifying interview. Ask them about the spectacular idiocy!

What a waste of space he was there.

Pinnacle of motorsport, this. When did F1 become almost exclusively populated with idiots?

Masi did warn this morning about this:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/monza-qualifying-warning-slipstream-penalties/4532091/

And they went ahead and somehow worsen what happened at Spa. Cue the penalties if they have the balls for it

that was an absolute [street in York] Nico and Lance should get penalties

I missed quali and cant get straight answers anywhere... what happened???

TomPryce wrote:I missed quali and cant get straight answers anywhere... what happened???

They all tried to go as slowly as possible to avoid being at the front and get a tow, to such an extent that nearly everyone failed to get around in time to start a flying lap.

What can they do, though? Penalise the entire top 10?

Okay, I suppose they could, but everyone outside the top 10 would've have done the same thing had they been in Q3.

I know this is probably completely artificial or "un-F1", but maybe... just maybe... there should be different rules for qualy at Monza to rest of the calendar? At least whilst you can get a tow off a car more than 2 seconds in front of you anyway. Maybe one at a time single lap shootout for the top 10?

Enforcer wrote:What can they do, though? Penalise the entire top 10?

Okay, I suppose they could, but everyone outside the top 10 would've have done the same thing had they been in Q3.

I know this is probably completely artificial or "un-F1", but maybe... just maybe... there should be different rules for qualy at Monza to rest of the calendar? At least whilst you can get a tow off a car more than 2 seconds in front of you anyway. Maybe one at a time single lap shootout for the top 10?

Why is q3 not a 1 lap shoot out...… I think it should be

And Carlos Sainz, the only driver to attempt to improve their time in that last part of qualifying, was completely ignored by the TV director.

I think this qualifying format works and does not need changing over this one pathetic incident. But a few drivers need a penalty. The Hulk is a clear example, he took the safety road in a clear attempt to gain advantage by leaving the track. And Stroll who was driving excessively slowly and causing other drivers a disadvantage. Surely these are slam dunks?

Some of the smartest minds in motorsport, and this is what they come up with. Losing an entire lap to gain 0.2 seconds.. Brilliant

IceG wrote:And Carlos Sainz, the only driver to attempt to improve their time in that last part of qualifying, was completely ignored by the TV director.

I think this qualifying format works and does not need changing over this one pathetic incident. But a few drivers need a penalty. The Hulk is a clear example, he took the safety road in a clear attempt to gain advantage by leaving the track. And Stroll who was driving excessively slowly and causing other drivers a disadvantage. Surely these are slam dunks?

You might think it is a slam dunk penalty, but the stewards have come to a rather different conclusion with regards to Hulkenberg cutting the first chicane - because they have stated "that the regulation refers to ‘deliberately’ leaving the track and in this case we are unable to determine that the driver deliberately left the track."
https://www.racefans.net/2019/09/07/no- ... ualifying/

He is still under investigation for driving too slowly though, with Sainz and Stroll also under investigation for that as well.

Meanwhile, it seems that Vettel is also under investigation over whether he went over the track limits at Parabolica, which would result in his times being deleted. Now, if he were to be stripped of his time, I'm wondering if he'd potentially have to start down in 9th, assuming that Kimi will have to take a penalty following his crash.

I believe that, if the drivers have not set a lap time, or even a sector time (which is the next way of ordering them), the drivers are then ordered according to when they left the pit lane to attempt their flying lap. Vettel left the pit lane after Stroll and Albon on their final Q3 laps so, if that fast lap Vettel set was deleted, then, as he'd have no lap times to his name, he would be put behind the other two drivers who also did not set a lap time in that session (Stroll and Albon), having left the pits later than they did.

Well then...

I had to rewatch that last lap three times until I realized what was going on.

Can't believe it

Why are Sainz, Stroll and Hulk getting penalties?

According to St. Lewis Hamilton, The Best F1 Driver Ever, it was deliberate tactics from Ferrari, despite them not leading the lap.

More Ferrari International Assistance, no doubt.

A reprimand isn't a penalty. It's just a verbal warning.

Well that was a farcical end to qualifying but in a way I’m actually happy it backfired. That’ll teach them not to play mindless games.

I’m of the opinion that Q3 at Spa and Monza should involve the 10 drivers having a one lap attempt like in the mid 2000’s because every time we go to these 2 races the ridiculous slipstreaming games rear their ugly and potentially dangerous head. Giving them a reprimand isn’t going to solve anything either.

WeirdKerr wrote:that was an absolute [street in York]

...you mean Whip-Ma-Whop-Ma Gate?

Anyway, anything that needed to be said has already been said by the time I'd caught up with qualifying...

Daniil Kvyat wrote:What a mess!

Charles Leclerc wrote:What a mess!

What-a-Mess wrote:Woof.

That was the best qualifying session I've seen since 2016 at Battersea.

Enforcer wrote:Why are Sainz, Stroll and Hulk getting penalties?

According to St. Lewis Hamilton, The Best F1 Driver Ever, it was deliberate tactics from Ferrari, despite them not leading the lap.

More Ferrari International Assistance, no doubt.

The answer as to why those three are getting reprimands - not penalties, as Fetzie rightly notes - is because all three of those drivers have admitted that they were driving deliberately slowly because they were focussing on getting a tow, and those three drivers are judged to have obstructed other drivers who were attempting to complete a lap at a normal speed.

In the case of Hulkenberg, he was already on slightly thin ice anyway because he'd cut the first chicane to try and make others overtake him - whilst the stewards had ruled they couldn't demonstrate he'd deliberately cut it, when you see that the radio transcript has the team telling him to "remember the plan" shortly before he cut that corner, it's hard to see how that wasn't intentional. I believe that there was also a report that he had chopped across the path of some other drivers quite aggressively when they did try to overtake him near the end, because he didn't want to lose the possibility of being in Sainz's slipstream.

Speaking of Ferrari, it seems that Vettel was pretty harsh about Leclerc's behaviour during qualifying, with the implication that Leclerc was failing to honour the pre-qualifying agreement the team had for Q3 (which was for Vettel to give Leclerc a tow in his first run, with Leclerc then towing Vettel during the second runs) and perhaps that Leclerc was trying to screw over his second run.

mario wrote:

IceG wrote:And Carlos Sainz, the only driver to attempt to improve their time in that last part of qualifying, was completely ignored by the TV director.

I think this qualifying format works and does not need changing over this one pathetic incident. But a few drivers need a penalty. The Hulk is a clear example, he took the safety road in a clear attempt to gain advantage by leaving the track. And Stroll who was driving excessively slowly and causing other drivers a disadvantage. Surely these are slam dunks?

You might think it is a slam dunk penalty, but the stewards have come to a rather different conclusion with regards to Hulkenberg cutting the first chicane - because they have stated "that the regulation refers to ‘deliberately’ leaving the track and in this case we are unable to determine that the driver deliberately left the track."
https://www.racefans.net/2019/09/07/no- ... ualifying/

He is still under investigation for driving too slowly though, with Sainz and Stroll also under investigation for that as well.

Meanwhile, it seems that Vettel is also under investigation over whether he went over the track limits at Parabolica, which would result in his times being deleted. Now, if he were to be stripped of his time, I'm wondering if he'd potentially have to start down in 9th, assuming that Kimi will have to take a penalty following his crash.

I believe that, if the drivers have not set a lap time, or even a sector time (which is the next way of ordering them), the drivers are then ordered according to when they left the pit lane to attempt their flying lap. Vettel left the pit lane after Stroll and Albon on their final Q3 laps so, if that fast lap Vettel set was deleted, then, as he'd have no lap times to his name, he would be put behind the other two drivers who also did not set a lap time in that session (Stroll and Albon), having left the pits later than they did.

I think the final decision taken by the stewards was not the right call. Masi did say he was going to penalize drivers for driving too slowly in qualifying, and after they did, nothing happened but a reprimand. I think that it wasn't just the driving too slowly that was the worse, it was the farce that it produced. It made F1 a laughing stock.

A perfect example of a similar accident was what happened a few years ago in WTCC, as remembered here by Neil Hudson in this twitter thread:

Drivers did drive dangerously that day, they brought the sport into disrepute and the promotor (Eurosport) didnt't aproove it. They penalized drivers and handed over fines like there was tomorrow. It never happened again. This is a bad precedent set by F1. They should have penalized the drivers who caused the mayhem for turning F1 into a laughing stock.

Regarding Vettel's penalty:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/why-vettel-escaped-penalty-monza/4535382/

....is F1 gunning for a slam dunk ROTR here?

Just caught up with qualifying. Was going to post up here when it was done, "Well I think it's clear that Kimi Räikkönen was the slam-dunk ROTR for the weekend so far, what with three crashes." He'll be very lucky to avoid getting the award after that shambles towards the end.

I was also annoyed that the TV cameras ignored Sainz, despite him being the only person qualifying.

Oh Seb...

There's a bloke who just does not look like he wants to be in F1.

I'd have to assume the unsafe rejoins are at least partly due to lack of visibility, considering Stroll did one immediately after being punted by Vettel and complaining about it.

bathplug hell. I'm so close to awarding ROTR to the entire weekend it's not even funny. Driving standards have been appalling in all three series.

Oh look, Magnussen driving like a dick again.

It's quite telling that Sauber putting on wrong tyres on Räikkönen's car wouldn't even qualify to my top-3 RotR nominations. The whole weekend has just been like watching a bunch of kids play video games.

If Vettel's antics weren't worthy of a disqualification, why do you even have the disqualification option? Send Vettel to a booth to watch all the crashes of the last two race weekends and ask him why he shouldn't be disqualified and sent home for his actions on track this Sunday.

I am actually quite furious.

Have Mercedes got immunity from the FIA to carry out these dummy pit stops? Pretty sure they're illegal but it happens EVERY SINGLE RACE.

What do you know, it didn't fall into Mercedes' hands for a change.

Well done Charles.

Leclerc's rise to the top has really put a smile on my face. After all the craziness of today, I'm just really happy that he's winning.

Enforcer wrote:Oh Seb...

There's a bloke who just does not look like he wants to be in F1.

I'd have to assume the unsafe rejoins are at least partly due to lack of visibility, considering Stroll did one immediately after being punted by Vettel and complaining about it.

It is moments like this which are only going to intensify the speculation about whether he is going to quit at the end of this season - or whether Ferrari might even take the decision to replace him. The way that he recovered the car made it feel as if he was so frustrated that he just nailed the throttle and, in that moment, didn't really care if he hit anybody anyway.

There has been talk that relations between himself and Ferrari aren't what they once were, and more than a few Ferrari personnel were rumoured to have told the press that they felt that, if Alonso had been driving for them in 2018, and perhaps 2017, they might have taken at least one, and maybe two, WDCs by now.

With Leclerc now growing in confidence, and with a little bit more antagonism between Vettel and Leclerc, plus the signs that Vettel is losing some of his enthusiasm for the sport, it does make you wonder whether his heart is really in it any more.

Great that Leclerc was able to hang on again today. What a star he's becoming. It's making it hard to see where Vettel goes from here - he could end up playing Raikkonen to Leclerc's Vettel.

mario wrote:It is moments like this which are only going to intensify the speculation about whether he is going to quit at the end of this season - or whether Ferrari might even take the decision to replace him. The way that he recovered the car made it feel as if he was so frustrated that he just nailed the throttle and, in that moment, didn't really care if he hit anybody anyway.

There has been talk that relations between himself and Ferrari aren't what they once were, and more than a few Ferrari personnel were rumoured to have told the press that they felt that, if Alonso had been driving for them in 2018, and perhaps 2017, they might have taken at least one, and maybe two, WDCs by now.

With Leclerc now growing in confidence, and with a little bit more antagonism between Vettel and Leclerc, plus the signs that Vettel is losing some of his enthusiasm for the sport, it does make you wonder whether his heart is really in it any more.

The way I look at it, imagine the following scenario:

You (general you) are driving that 2015-esque Ferrari (good enough to win races when the stars align, but clearly never going to challenge for titles)
You are a four-times world champion and a 52-times race winner
Your teammate is a talented sophomore driver, who clearly has a lot of promise but everyone with two brain cells to rub together knows is overall not on your level yet
Your team has played a major part in screwing up your last title challenge (just at this exact venue using the championship contender to give the number two driver a boost, leading to the incident with Hamilton on the first lap; mishandling development late in the season) and can't even get timing in Q3 right
You are getting paid handsomely, regardless of your results, and have a contract for the next couple of years with no midfield driver making a case for a promotion for a top team

Why in the name of bathplug would you put any effort into what remains this season? I know I sure wouldn't. I'd get it over with, support the development of the 2020 package with what I can do and otherwise enjoy my millionaire life and my family.

Rob Dylan wrote:Leclerc's rise to the top has really put a smile on my face. After all the craziness of today, I'm just really happy that he's winning.

I'm right with this- so nice to see Leclerc win . He seems a real breath of fresh air. He's good for the sport as a result. My household was willing him to win . And he won!

One thing I did enjoy- F1 looked properly difficult at Monza - people locking up, spins , going wide , and getting a bit wiggly.
Usually I need the F2 and F3 for that