F1 1967 - Hill strikes again at Monaco

Aislabie · Post by **Aislabie** » 18 Mar 2017, 01:00

Tentatively, I'm going to have one final try at managing a Formula One series on here. Frankly, I wouldn't otherwise be bothering if it were not for the excellent work of BioBiro having inspired me to do so, so thank you to him.

There will be a few differences from my previous attempts:

Firstly, races are to be simulated on my new race spreadsheet, which should provide some more plausible racing than such simulators as xKoranate and the like.
Secondly, I've chosen a completely different era of F1: the late sixties, when the engines grew powerful and the cars were operating on the ragged edge. There will be a definite sense of danger in this series: it is worth remembering that this an era when drivers lost their lives all too regularly. This will be integrated into the series, although no effort will be made to link up with the GPR canon.
Thirdly, you will have a chance to shape the rules of Formula One, meaning that the sport could end up looking entirely different to the one which developed in real life.
Fourthly, the driver market will be a little unusual. There won't be a huge degree of free choice to pick anyone at all, and some very famous drivers in our timeline may never make it to Formula One in this timeline.

thor97 · Post by **thor97** » 18 Mar 2017, 01:12

Team Lotus

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 18 Mar 2017, 01:16

Regarding point 5, i think an entrants championship would also be necessairy.
The sixties was a period with relatively little constructors and a few competitive privateers (like Rob Walker) It would make sense to make one-off entries inelegible, but the more serious privateers should be able to get some reward.

i'd have interest in Matra.

Normal32 · Post by **Normal32** » 18 Mar 2017, 01:28

Honda Racing for me.

Aislabie · Post by **Aislabie** » 18 Mar 2017, 01:39

THE TEAMS

Scuderia Ferrari (RedEyes504)
Budget: £125,000
(1,500,000 > Starting budget)
(500,000 > Designed 312/67, built two)
(225,000 > Driver salaries)
(750,000 > 3 x Tipo 248 engines for full season)
(100,000 > South African Grand Prix)
1966 Chassis: Ferrari 312/66 (Tier 3) (4 available)
1967 Chassis: Ferrari 312/67 (Tier 5) (2 available)
Driver 1:

Lorenzo Bandini (100,000) (Chassis: 312/67, Engine: Tipo 248)
Driver 2:

Ludovico Scarfiotti (75,000) (Chassis: 312/67, Engine: Tipo 248)
Driver 3:

Jo Bonnier (50,000) (Chassis: 312/66, Engine: Tipo 248)
- - - - -

Team Lotus (Thor97)
Budget: £135,000
(1,200,000 > Starting budget)
(500,000 > Designed 49, built two)
(550,000 > Driver salaries)
(400,000 > Two DFV engines for the full season)
(80,000 > South African Grand Prix)
(5,000 > South African Grand Prix)
1966 Chassis: Lotus 43 (Tier 2) (2 available)
1967 Chassis: Lotus 49 (Tier 5) (2 available)
Driver 1:

Phil Hill (200,000) (Chassis: 49, Engine: Ford Cosworth DFV)
Driver 2:

Jackie Stewart (350,000) (Chassis: 49, Engine: Ford Cosworth DFV)
- - - - -

Brabham Racing Organisation (FantometteBR)
Budget: £170,000
(1,100,000 > Starting budget)
(360,000 > Designed BT24, built two)
(220,000 > Built two more BT24 chassis)
(175,000 > Sold two BT24 chassis to Rob Walker)
(275,000 > Driver salaries)
(750,000 > Three 620 engines for full season)
(60,000 > South African Grand Prix)
1966 Chassis: Brabham BT20 (Tier 3) (2 avaliable)
1967 Chassis: Brabham BT24 (Tier 4) (2 available)
Driver 1:

Jack Brabham (FREE) (Chassis: BT24, Engine: Repco 620)
Driver 2:

Graham Hill (200,000) (Chassis: BT24, Engine: Repco 620)
Driver 3:

Peter Revson (75,000) (Chassis: BT20, Engine: Repco 620)
- - - - -

Rob Walker Racing Team (CarloSpace)
Budget: £185,000
(900,000 > Starting budget)
(175,000 > Bought two BT24 chassis)
(140,000 > Driver salaries)
(400,000 > Two DFV engines for the full season)
1967 Chassis: Brabham BT24 (Tier 4) (2 available)
Driver 1:

Denny Hulme (80,000) (Chassis: BT24, Engine: Ford Cosworth DFV)
Driver 2:

Mike Parkes (60,000) (Chassis: BT24, Engine, Ford Cosworth DFV)
- - - - -

Owen Racing Organisation (This Could Be You)
Budget: £115,000
(800,000 > Starting budget)
(360,000 > Designed P115, built two)
(255,000 > Driver salaries)
(360,000 > Two P75 engines for the full season)
(60,000 > South African Grand Prix)
1966 Chassis: BRM P261 (Tier 2) (3 available) / BRM P83 (Tier 2) (2 available)
1967 Chassis: BRM P115 (Tier 4) (2 available)
Driver 1:

Jochen Rindt (150,000) (Chassis: P115, Engine: BRM P75)
Driver 2:

Chris Amon (100,000) (Chassis: P115, Engine: BRM P75)
Driver 3:

Harry Stiller (5,000) (Chassis: P261, Engine: BRM P60 (free))
- - - - -

Honda Racing (Normal32)
Budget: £200,000
(700,000 > Starting budget)
(300,000 > Driver salaries)
(200,000 > One RA273 engine for the full season)
1966 Chassis: Honda RA273 (Tier 3) (2 available)
Driver 1:

Jim Clark (300,000) (Chassis: RA273, Engine: Honda RA273E)
- - - - -

Cooper Car Company (Andrew)
Budget: £611,000
(600,000 > Starting budget)
(260,000 > Designed and built two T86s)
(301,000 > Driver salaries)
(700,000 > Four Maserati 10/F1 engines for full season)
(50,000 > South African Grand Prix)
1966 Chassis: Cooper T81 (Tier 3) (4 available)
1967 Chassis: Cooper T86 (Tier 3) (2 available)
Driver 1:

Pedro Rodriguez (49,000) (Chassis: T81, Engine: Maserati 10/F1)
Driver 2:

Mauro Bianchi (12,000) (Chassis: T81, Engine: Maserati 10/F1)
Driver 3:

John Surtees (150,000) (Chassis: T86, Engine: Maserati 10/F1)
Driver 4:

Innes Ireland (90,000) (Chassis: T86, Engine: Maserati 10/F1)
- - - - -

Bruce McLaren Motor Racing (Novitopoli)
Budget: £60,000
(500,000 > Starting budget)
(250,000 > Designed M4B, built one)
(10,000 > Driver salaries)
(180,000 > One P75 engine for the full season)
1966 Chassis: McLaren M2B (Tier 1) (2 available)
1967 Chassis: McLaren M4B (Tier 4) (1 available)
Driver 1:

Bruce McLaren (FREE) (Chassis: M4B, Engine: P75)
Driver 2:

Trevor Taylor (10,000) (Chassis: M2B, Engine Serenissima M166 (10,000))
- - - - -

Equipe Matra Sports (This)
Budget: £162,500
(400,000 > Starting budget)
(360,000 > Designed MS7, built two)
(32,500 > Driver salaries)
(180,000 > One P75 engine for the full season)
(10,000 > South African Grand Prix)
1967 Chassis: Matra MS7 (Tier 4) (2 available)
Driver 1:

Jo Siffert (30,000) (Chassis: MS7, Engine: BRM P75)
Driver 2:

Guy Ligier (2,500) (Chassis: MS7, Engine: Climax FWMV (6,000))
- - - - -

Anglo American Racers (Bandon23)
Budget: £80,000
(300,000 > Starting budget)
(80,000 > Driver salaries)
(300,000 > Two T58 engines for the full season)
1966 Chassis: Eagle T1G (Tier 3) (2 available)
Driver 1:

Dan Gurney (FREE) (Chassis: T1G, Engine: Weslake T58)
Driver 2:

Mike Spence (80,000) (Chassis: T1G, Engine: Weslake T58)
- - - - -

Reg Parnell Racing (takagi_for_the_win)
Budget: £77,000
(200,000 > Starting budget)
(100,000 > Bought two Shannon SH1 chassis)
(13,000 > Converted SH1 into RP1)
(34,000 > Dependent upon Hazelhoff getting to drive at NED, GBR and USA)
(10,000 > South African Grand Prix)
1967 Chassis: Parnell RP1 (Tier 3) (2 available)
Driver 1:

Erik Hazelhoff (Chassis: RP1, Engine: BMW M10 (10,000))
- - - - -

DW Racing Enterprises (Simonracer)
Budget: £94,000
(100,000 > Starting budget)
(6,000 > South African Grand Prix)
1966 Chassis: Brabham BT11 (Tier 1) (1 available)
Driver 1:

Bob Anderson (Free) (Chassis: BT11, Engine: Climax FWMV (6,000))

FantometteBR · Post by **FantometteBR** » 18 Mar 2017, 05:58

Brabham please

CarloSpace · Post by **CarloSpace** » 18 Mar 2017, 06:38

Rob Walker Racing Team, please

RedEyes504 · Post by **RedEyes504** » 18 Mar 2017, 09:41

I'll take Ferrari

This Could Be You · Post by **This Could Be You** » 18 Mar 2017, 09:57

I'll take BRM please.

novitopoli · Post by **novitopoli** » 18 Mar 2017, 12:52

I'll take McLaren.

andrew · Post by **andrew** » 18 Mar 2017, 13:03

Matra for me.

Aislabie · Post by **Aislabie** » 18 Mar 2017, 13:47

CALENDAR

02 Jan - South African Grand Prix, Kyalami (80 laps) --- RACE REPORT
07 May - Monaco Grand Prix, Circuit de Monaco (80 laps) --- RACE REPORT
04 Jun - Dutch Grand Prix, Circuit Zandvoort (90 laps)
18 Jun - Belgian Grand Prix, Spa-Francorchamps (28 laps)
02 Jul - French Grand Prix, Bugatti Circuit (80 laps)
15 Jul - British Grand Prix, Silverstone Circuit (80 laps)
06 Aug - German Grand Prix, Nurburgring Nordschleife (15 laps)
27 Aug - Canadian Grand Prix, Mosport Park (90 laps)
10 Sep - Italian Grand Prix, Autodromo Nazionale Monza (68 laps)
01 Oct - United States Grand Prix, Watkins Glen (108 laps)
22 Oct - Mexican Grand Prix, Magdalena Mixhuca (65 laps)
12 Nov - Spanish Grand Prix, Circuito del Jarama (100 laps)

STANDINGS

andrew · Post by **andrew** » 18 Mar 2017, 14:09

Aislabie wrote:
andrew wrote:Matra for me.

Unfortunately, Matra is already gone.

Still available are: Cooper, McLaren, Eagle and Reg Parnell Racing.

Oops sorry, mclaren then,

Post by **Nuppiz** » 18 Mar 2017, 16:33

andrew wrote:
Aislabie wrote:
andrew wrote:Matra for me.

Unfortunately, Matra is already gone.

Still available are: Cooper, McLaren, Eagle and Reg Parnell Racing.

Oops sorry, mclaren then,

Didn't novitopoli already take them?

Bandon23 · Post by **Bandon23** » 18 Mar 2017, 17:40

I'll take Eagle.

andrew · Post by **andrew** » 18 Mar 2017, 18:20

Cooper then.

Aislabie · Post by **Aislabie** » 18 Mar 2017, 18:45

Thank you all, and sorry Andrew for the confusion.

Just Reg Parnell left now.

andrew · Post by **andrew** » 18 Mar 2017, 18:56

Aislabie wrote:Thank you all, and sorry Andrew for the confusion.

Just Reg Parnell left now.

Don't worry

it was partly my fault for not reading the thread properly in the first place.

TheFlyingCaterham · Post by **TheFlyingCaterham** » 18 Mar 2017, 21:02

Since Reg Parnell is the only team left, I guess I'll claim it then.

simonracer · Post by **simonracer** » 19 Mar 2017, 00:34

If it's possible to run a privateer entry in this then I wouldn't mind doing that.

Aislabie · Post by **Aislabie** » 19 Mar 2017, 11:54

simonracer wrote:If it's possible to run a privateer entry in this then I wouldn't mind doing that.

I suppose that the Joakim Bonnier Racing Team, DW Racing Enterprises or Team Chamaco Collect could all be worked into the series if you want to take one

simonracer · Post by **simonracer** » 19 Mar 2017, 12:35

I'll take DW Racing if that's OK.

Aislabie · Post by **Aislabie** » 19 Mar 2017, 16:45

Voting Results

Proposal: That all teams must purchase permanent entry numbers to be eligible for points. REJECTED
The Championship will continue to be open to anyone who turns up with a working car.
Proposal: That the Canadian GP at Mosport Park be hosted as a Championship event. PASSED
The Canadian Grand Prix will take place on 27th August.
Proposal: That the Spanish GP at Jarama be hosted as a Championship event. PASSED
The Spanish Grand Prix will take place on 12th November.
Proposal: That all the points earned in all World Championship races count PASSED
From now on, every World Championship point earned will count towards the final standings.
Proposal: That there be three Championships: Drivers, Constructors and Engines. PASSED
The 1967 season will include the inaugural World Championship of Engine Manufacturers.

Aislabie · Post by **Aislabie** » 22 Mar 2017, 21:47

CHASSIS RULES

Designing a chassis
There are five levels of chassis in this competition. Their exact attributes vary from race to race entirely at random within the parameters given, meaning that the same Tier 3 chassis could theoretically be the fastest at one track, only to be the very slowest at the next. It seems a little unlikely, but still.

Tier 1 - Cost to design: £50,000 / Performance: Between 0 and 40
Tier 2 - Cost to design: £70,000 / Performance: Between 15 and 55
Tier 3 - Cost to design: £100,000 / Performance: Between 30 and 70
Tier 4 - Cost to design: £140,000 / Performance: Between 45 and 85
Tier 5 - Cost to design: £200,000 / Performance: Between 60 and 100

Building a new chassis:
Of course, you cannot build a chassis if you've not designed it yet. Once you have, the build costs are as follows:

Tier 1 - Cost to build: £50,000
Tier 2 - Cost to build: £60,000
Tier 3 - Cost to build: £80,000
Tier 4 - Cost to build: £110,000
Tier 5 - Cost to build: £150,000

Repairing damaged chassis
Unlike engines, the responsibility for repairing damaged chassis falls directly upon you. Should your car be involved in a shunt, the simulator will tell me how damaged your chassis is. That will then translate via RNG into a percentage of the original build cost that it will set you back to repair the chassis. Sometimes it will be more cost-effective to just scrap said chassis.

Keeping your old chassis
If you choose to keep your old chassis, then it will decline by one performance tier for each year it has been on the grid. A chassis that declines from Tier 1 will become obsolete, because there is no Tier 0. For example, the Ferrari 312 chassis would have been a Tier 4 chassis in 1966, but in 1967 is only a Tier 3 chassis.

Buying customer chassis
If you're a little strapped for cash, then you may wish to save some money by buying in a customer chassis. These can cost you as much or as little as the parent constructor likes. There are no rigid rules for such a transaction, so if a constructor wishes to work closely with a privateer they may choose to charge less than the going rate for such a vehicle.

If this chassis is an old vehicle, you can pay the following costs for your team's own engineers to take it apart and put it back together again so that it can be recognised as a chassis that your team built:

Tier 1 - Rebranding costs: £10,000
Tier 2 - Rebranding costs: £11,000
Tier 3 - Rebranding costs: £13,000
Tier 4 - Rebranding costs: £16,000
Tier 5 - Rebranding costs: £20,000

Also... there are two Shannon SH1 chassis available for anyone brave enough to buy them. They've not been cleaned in a while, so nobody knows how they'll perform.

Shannon SH1 / Tier: Unknown / Cost per car: £60,000 (or £100,000 for the pair) / Availability: 2

Scrapping and selling your old chassis
If you have an old chassis that you want to dispose of, you might just get some money for them:

Obsolete - Income between £5,000 and £10,000 (minus damage)
Tier 1 - Income between £10,000 and £20,000 (minus damage)
Tier 2 - Income between £15,000 and £30,000 (minus damage)
Tier 3 - Income between £20,000 and £40,000 (minus damage)
Tier 4 - Income between £25,000 and £50,000 (minus damage)
Tier 5 - Income between £30,000 and £60,000 (minus damage)

Have fun guys, and as always - feel free to ask any questions you may have.

andrew · Post by **andrew** » 22 Mar 2017, 21:50

Tier 3 chassis for me please.

Aislabie · Post by **Aislabie** » 22 Mar 2017, 21:52

andrew wrote:Tier 3 chassis for me please.

You already have four of those available

This Could Be You · Post by **This Could Be You** » 22 Mar 2017, 22:25

BRM will design & build 2 'Tier 4' P115 chassis and are willing to sell the P83s to anyone that wants them. (I might as well live up to the BRM name and go for the "cutting edge, but expensive and fragile" approach to car design)

thor97 · Post by **thor97** » 22 Mar 2017, 22:46

Design and build 2 tier 5 chassis
that will set me back about 700k i think

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 22 Mar 2017, 22:47

If one-car teams are permitted, Matra will design and construct two Tier 4 chassis
If not, we will construct 3 tier 3 chassis.

Aislabie · Post by **Aislabie** » 22 Mar 2017, 23:00

This wrote:If one-car teams are permitted, Matra will design and construct two Tier 4 chassis
If not, we will construct 3 tier 3 chassis.

You can enter as many or as few drivers as you wish. One-car teams are absolutely fine, and are in fact the arrangement that the real-life Matra team went with for most of 1967

simonracer · Post by **simonracer** » 23 Mar 2017, 02:40

Would it be possible to have the Brabham-Climax 2.8 that Bob ran through 1966 and up until his death in 1967? Surely it should be worthy of being at least tier 1, considering he was actually able to out qualify some Cooper-Maseratis and H16 BRMs in early 67.

I ask this as DW Racing does not have much money, and all the factory teams have been able to keep the cars they ran in 66. I do intend to pick up a newer Brabham at some point if that's possible though, even if it's a used one.

This Could Be You · Post by **This Could Be You** » 23 Mar 2017, 07:52

simonracer wrote:I ask this as DW Racing does not have much money, and all the factory teams have been able to keep the cars they ran in 66.

Actually, BRM can offer you '66 spec P83s if you want- name your price.

CarloSpace · Post by **CarloSpace** » 23 Mar 2017, 12:58

Rob Walker Racing Team are interested in buying two tier 4 chassis.

We prefer Cooper and Brabham but others are free to shoot an offer too.

RedEyes504 · Post by **RedEyes504** » 23 Mar 2017, 16:52

Ferrari will design and build two tier 5 chassis and offer two of our tier 3 for sale to the highest bidder above scrap price

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 23 Mar 2017, 20:42

Aislabie wrote:
This wrote:If one-car teams are permitted, Matra will design and construct two Tier 4 chassis
If not, we will construct 3 tier 3 chassis.

You can enter as many or as few drivers as you wish. One-car teams are absolutely fine, and are in fact the arrangement that the real-life Matra team went with for most of 1967

Then i'll do that, run one car and only a second car in french-speaking countries.

novitopoli · Post by **novitopoli** » 23 Mar 2017, 22:42

We'll design and build one Tier 4 chassis and sell one of the old cars.

FantometteBR · Post by **FantometteBR** » 23 Mar 2017, 23:26

Brabham will going to design and build a Tier 4 chassis and sell one to anyone who wants it

CarloSpace · Post by **CarloSpace** » 24 Mar 2017, 09:29

FantometteBR wrote:Brabham will going to design and build a Tier 4 chassis and sell one to anyone who wants it

Any chance of selling two of them to Rob Walker?

I'm interested in buying one anyway, what's the price of the chassis?

Aislabie · Post by **Aislabie** » 25 Mar 2017, 00:38

DRIVER MARKET

While chassis building can be dealt with over the course of the season (so it doesn't matter if you don't have things perfectly sorted right now), we really must start sorting out some drivers before the South African Grand Prix.

In the case of multiple offers for the same driver, then it will be down to the gods of RNG, although I will also step in to make sure that certain unlikely events (such as Jim Clark leaving Lotus) are made equally unlikely by the RNG.

There are a number of things that you could do to sway the RNG in your favour. You may offer your driver payment (though this is not mandatory as F1 at this point is still somewhat a gentleman's game, it will improve your chances rather a lot), the exact amount of which is entirely up to your discretion. You may guarantee him a drive in every race for the season, or else simply have a better car for him to drive. Some drivers will also be far more keen to drive for their home country than for a foreign team.

Hopefully that all seems logical.

Anyhow, here's the driver market:

FORMULA ONE DRIVERS

Chris Amon / 23 / 17 GP starts, 0 wins, 2 points

Bob Anderson / 35 / 20 GP starts, 0 wins, 6 points

Peter Arundell / 33 / 11 GP starts, 0 wins, 12 points

Lorenzo Bandini / 31 / 41 GP starts, 1 win, 58 points

Bob Bondurant / 33 / 9 GP starts, 0 wins, 3 points

Jo Bonnier / 36 / 82 GP starts, 1 win, 33 points

Jack Brabham / 40 / 83 GP starts, 11 wins, 172 points (1959, 1960, 1966)

Jim Clark / 30 / 60 GP starts, 20 wins, 224 points (1963, 1965)

Richie Ginther / 36 / 52 GP starts, 1 win, 107 points

Dan Gurney / 35 / 63 GP starts, 3 wins, 117 points

Innes Ireland / 36 / 50 GP starts, 1 win, 47 points

Graham Hill / 37 / 80 GP starts, 10 wins, 176 points (1962)

Phil Hill / 39 / 48 GP starts, 3 wins, 98 points (1961)

Denny Hulme / 30 / 15 GP starts, 0 wins, 23 points

Guy Ligier / 36 / 5 GP starts, 0 wins, 0 points

Bruce McLaren / 29 / 64 GP starts, 3 wins, 145.5 points

Mike Parkes / 35 / 4 GP starts, 0 wins,12 points

Jochen Rindt / 24 / 20 GP starts, 0 wins, 28 points

Pedro Rodriguez / 26 / 9 GP starts, 0 wins, 3 points

Ludovico Scarfiotti / 33 / 4 GP starts, 1 win, 10 points

Jo Siffert / 30 / 41 GP starts, 0 wins, 16 points

Mike Spence / 30 / 24 GP starts, 0 wins, 18 points

Jackie Stewart / 27 / 19 GP starts, 2 wins, 48 points

John Surtees / 32 / 50 GP starts, 5 wins, 136 points(1964)

John Taylor / 33 / 5 GP starts, 0 wins, 1 point

FORMULA TWO DRIVERS

Richard Attwood / 26 / 8 GP starts, 0 wins, 2 points

Mauro Bianchi / 29 / 0 GP starts

Frank Gardner / 35 / 7 GP starts, 0 wins, 0 points

Henri Grandsire / 30 / 0 GP starts

Hans Herrmann / 38 / 18 GP starts, 0 wins, 10 points

Chris Irwin / 24 / 1 GP start, 0 wins, 0 points

Gerhard Mitter / 31 / 4 GP starts, 0 wins, 3 points

Peter Revson / 27 / 5 GP starts, 0 wins, 0 points

Jean Rolland / 31 / 0 GP starts

Trevor Taylor / 30 / 27 GP starts, 0 wins, 8 points

WILDCARD PICKS

Nasif Estefano / 34 / 1 GP start, 0 wins, 0 points

Erik Hazelhoff / 49 / British F3, 12th place (1 win) *

Jozef Kielbania / 31 / Polish F3, Champion

Harry Stiller / 28 / British F3, Champion (5 wins)

Picko Per Troberg / 29 / Swedish F3, 2nd place (1 win)
* Hazelhoff, though likely to be off the pace thanks to his advancing years, may be persuaded to invest in a cash-strapped team as he is already independently wealthy.

It's quite restrictive I know, but the idea is that I control the driver pool so as to shape an alternate history for this series, and so that it doesn't grow into something I can't control.

thor97 · Post by **thor97** » 25 Mar 2017, 00:54

Phil Hill 200k
Jackie Stewart 350k