CoopsII wrote:Am I the only person who thinks McLaren is simply trading one not-great engine for another?
I'm not sure it matters either way for Alonso's championship aspirations. Or race wins come to that.
It is one of those cases where they are being reduced to taking what they think is the least worst option (either a terrible engine with more funding, or a poor engine with less funding).
They have reached the point where they probably feel that the association with Honda is beginning to damage their future prospects, and the money that Honda has provided them is not enough to offset their reputational damage (not to mention being partially offset by lost revenue in the WCC as well). Furthermore, they have become rather dependent on Alonso dragging the team to some sort of respectability, and the threat of him walking out of the team hangs over them - for a team that has traditionally been able to command veteran drivers and world champions, they would face the prospect of possibly having one of their least experienced line ups in decades if they had to replace Alonso with Norris, something which could leave both drivers struggling.
It is true that the alternative, which is the Renault power unit, is still far from an idea engine unit - Verstappen has borne the brunt of the reliability problems (I believe that he has covered fewer laps than both McLaren drivers, such has been the frequency with which he has retired), but even so Renault have had quite a few reliability problems this year. They have at least shown signs of improving their performance though, and although their reliability is still not great, it is still better than what Honda have shown so far.
There have also been some suggestions that Abiteboul is a bit of a difficult person to work with because of his attitude (being a bit thin-skinned, as it were), such that any working relationship between McLaren and Renault could be a bit tense, just as the relationship between Red Bull and Renault has been strained at times.
On the other hand, we know that the current engine rules are due to be changed in 2021 - the technical working groups are working on the rules at the moment - so the engines are due to be changed fairly soon. From the point of view of McLaren, they probably have decided that, even if Honda can make decent improvements this year and next year, then they might at best be coming up to scratch only a year or so before the rules change anyway - if McLaren can, at the very least, put themselves further up the grid and demonstrate that they are still capable of building a decent chassis (perhaps aiming for 3rd or 4th in the WCC), then that may give them a chance of securing backing from another manufacturer in the future (if Porsche are serious - which is a big if - I expect McLaren will be one of many teams lobbying them for either a works deal or at least an engine supply deal).
From the point of view of Red Bull, I imagine that their main interest is using Honda to partially offset the cost of running Toro Rosso - although the budget may be smaller, the problem is that Toro Rosso doesn't generate much in the way of sponsorship either (though the funding package was reportedly one sticking point between Honda and Red Bull, since Honda did not want to pay Toro Rosso the same amount they paid McLaren, since the Toro Rosso brand was worth much less to them than McLaren is).
It also gives them the chance to develop links with multiple manufacturers, which may give them more leverage in the negotiations over future development rules and two chances of potentially having a decent engine in the post 2021 regulation package.
UgncreativeUsergname wrote:So now both Renault's drivers only went there because they were beaten by someone....
Well, it has to be said that Sainz Jr has effectively reached a point where he can't move up into the parent team, since Red Bull have potentially locked both drivers into those seats for multiple years, so his only chance of moving up the grid is to leave Toro Rosso and go elsewhere.
Renault, effectively, is his best chance of moving into a team that is on the up - though it does mean that we have multiple hype trains colliding with each other (the hype around Kubica, Sainz Jr and Hulkenberg all converging at the same point). It does also mean that we will see Gasly being given a chance, though if I am honest I am a bit underwhelmed by him.
DemocalypseNow wrote:Honda should withdraw, but with a clear statement of intent with a return date and clear objectives. They need to headhunt some key members of the powertrain teams at Mercedes and Ferrari and have them lead the direction of the 2021-onwards engine programme.
Perhaps Honda have taken the attitude that they potentially have more leverage on the 2021 regulation package from within the sport rather than being outside it - this way, they are more actively involved in shaping those rules and have a more direct insight on the development philosophy of the new engines than other parties which have been invited but are not currently directly involved in the sport.
The other aspect is that the future regulation package is likely to take elements from the current package. The initial suggestions leaked to the press suggest that the engine might remain larely the same, with the largest change being a switch from a single turbo to a twin turbo layout - they might think that, if they can get a somewhat decent base engine by the end of the current development cycle, that might stand them in reasonably good stead for the future development cycle.