2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

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Miguel98
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2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by Miguel98 »

Whaaaat? A new topic already?

Yes sir!

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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by Bobby Doorknobs »

These race threads are going to be opening very early this season...
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by AndreaModa »

Manor failing completely to consider how best to approach the race strategically. Are they actively handicapping themselves so they remain last or what? :facepalm:
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by Aguaman »

Keep on forgetting that Bahrain is a night race.
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by Rob Dylan »

AndreaModa wrote:Manor failing completely to consider how best to approach the race strategically. Are they actively handicapping themselves so they remain last or what? :facepalm:

IMO the elephant in the room in the discussions after Australia was the pace of Manor. There was something of an early charge by one of them amongst the mid-field in the opening laps, but after that they just fell back. A lot of us (most of us) were really looking forward to seeing them properly mixing with at least the mid-field consistently, but I'm worried we're really not going to see much of Manor this season. Which is scary, seeing as this is possibly the big chance Manor are getting that they may never get again.
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by watka »

Having tailed off my viewing Formula 1 towards the end of last season (shock horror!), by the time testing came around I must admit that I forgot Manor would even be on the grid this year as my memories were mainly of the team having gone into administration. They've employed some good people and have a Mercedes engine this year, but given the unsettling time they had last year and the lack of quality (Haryanto) and experience (Wehrlein) of the drivers, I'd be surprised if they were anything other than dead last (and second to dead last) in any of the races they finish this season.

All the more reason to celebrate them!
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by andrew »

Will the supersofts survive Bahrian
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by DanielPT »

watka wrote:Having tailed off my viewing Formula 1 towards the end of last season (shock horror!), by the time testing came around I must admit that I forgot Manor would even be on the grid this year as my memories were mainly of the team having gone into administration. They've employed some good people and have a Mercedes engine this year, but given the unsettling time they had last year and the lack of quality (Haryanto) and experience (Wehrlein) of the drivers, I'd be surprised if they were anything other than dead last (and second to dead last) in any of the races they finish this season.

All the more reason to celebrate them!


Manor's new engine and efforts would always require at least one experienced driver in order not to start in the back foot. Nevertheless, I expect them to improve while the season goes on but it will probably be not enough for some midfield forays.
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by Barbazza »

Rob Dylan wrote:IMO the elephant in the room in the discussions after Australia was the pace of Manor. There was something of an early charge by one of them amongst the mid-field in the opening laps, but after that they just fell back. A lot of us (most of us) were really looking forward to seeing them properly mixing with at least the mid-field consistently, but I'm worried we're really not going to see much of Manor this season. Which is scary, seeing as this is possibly the big chance Manor are getting that they may never get again.


I'm glad that it wasn't just me that noticed Wehrlein running 13th/14th in the early stages - I was actually shouting at the TV because Crofty and Brundle completely ignored it!
It did appear to be on merit as well - goodness knows what happened later on.
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by Miguel98 »

Barbazza wrote:
Rob Dylan wrote:IMO the elephant in the room in the discussions after Australia was the pace of Manor. There was something of an early charge by one of them amongst the mid-field in the opening laps, but after that they just fell back. A lot of us (most of us) were really looking forward to seeing them properly mixing with at least the mid-field consistently, but I'm worried we're really not going to see much of Manor this season. Which is scary, seeing as this is possibly the big chance Manor are getting that they may never get again.


I'm glad that it wasn't just me that noticed Wehrlein running 13th/14th in the early stages - I was actually shouting at the TV because Crofty and Brundle completely ignored it!
It did appear to be on merit as well - goodness knows what happened later on.


Wehrlein pitted quite early, and it was reported his SS tyres weared out fairly quickly. Bear in mind, that after the red flag period, he still ran a lot of time ahead of Nasr, and had to pit again for softs.

I don't think the Manor has good tyre wear, which leaves me worried.
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by AustralianStig »

So it's looking like we might be keeping the elimination quali format for Q1 and Q2 then reverting to last year's system for Q3.

I actually liked the new system for Q1/2 because it gave the backmarker teams some exposure and something to race for. It's not often they need to get out there quickly to set a lap because Q1 lasts for so long.

Having said that, this is starting to get a bit farcical with all these knee-jerk changes that aren't sticking...
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by Rob Dylan »

They are U-turning again? A U-turn on their original U-turn?
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by Meatwad »

AustralianStig wrote:So it's looking like we might be keeping the elimination quali format for Q1 and Q2 then reverting to last year's system for Q3.

Bathplug! While they were definitely better than Q3, Q1 and Q2 with the new format were the worst I have ever seen. There is nothing exciting or interesting about drivers being eliminated during their fastest lap or while in the pits.

The only way elimination qualifying could ever work is by basing it on laps instead of time. Have everyone do three laps, for instance, and then pit at the same time. After a certain number of laps (not minutes!), the slowest is eliminated. Or even better, keep the old system that actually works.
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by CoopsII »

AustralianStig wrote:So it's looking like we might be keeping the elimination quali format for Q1 and Q2 then reverting to last year's system for Q3.

Can I be the first to admit I no longer know what the fudge is going on?
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by AxelP800 »

Check out @TimCoronel's Tweet: https://twitter.com/TimCoronel/status/7 ... 41121?s=09

Hmm I think Verstappen could avoided Grosjean despite he would end up in St. Devote exit barrier while Alonso's move came in sync with Guti, rendering it's close to impossible to avoid. Opinion?
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by mario »

CoopsII wrote:
AustralianStig wrote:So it's looking like we might be keeping the elimination quali format for Q1 and Q2 then reverting to last year's system for Q3.

Can I be the first to admit I no longer know what the fudge is going on?

Basically, Williams and Force India both tried to veto the decision to revert back to the old qualifying format from last year - Force India in particular were especially vocal, because it seems they think they can gain more of an advantage from this system than they could under the old qualifying format.

What then happened is that both of those teams then put forward this proposal for a hybrid format, where they keep the elimination format for the first two parts of qualifying and then revert to a shootout format for the top 8 (i.e. both teams are still trying to keep the free tyre choice advantage they think they can get from keeping the elimination format going).

Now, initially it seems that Todt was not keen on that idea and sided with the teams that wanted to revert back to the old format - however, peculiarly, just as Force India and Williams were persuaded to drop their suggestion and to revert back to the original qualifying format, Todt seems to have changed his mind and swung his support behind the proposal they've just ditched.

Miguel98 wrote:Wehrlein pitted quite early, and it was reported his SS tyres weared out fairly quickly. Bear in mind, that after the red flag period, he still ran a lot of time ahead of Nasr, and had to pit again for softs.

I don't think the Manor has good tyre wear, which leaves me worried.

It looks like perhaps Manor's car can bring its tyres into the temperature window quickly, hence why Wehrlein could go on the attack in the opening laps and gain a lot of places, but pays for that with high wear and very poor lap times in the latter stages of a stint.

If you compare Wehrlein's times with those of Nasr, whilst Nasr's times progressively improved over his final stint (going from mid 1m35's to mid 1m32's), Wehrlein's times were the exact opposite - he went from a 1m32.67s (which was actually the 12th best time in the race) to 1m37's by the end of his stint, making him slower in the final 10 laps of the race than he had been in the opening 10 laps on full fuel.

It perhaps suggests that, given Bahrain is known to be quite hard on rear tyre wear, either they will have to run a two stop race on the medium tyre and hope that it is as competitive as it was last year or, if they want to use the softer tyres, they'll have to go for a three stop race. Either way, it looks like tyre management could be their weak spot - especially given that Melbourne is not the hardest track for tyre wear either...

AxelP800 wrote:Check out @TimCoronel's Tweet: https://twitter.com/TimCoronel/status/7 ... 41121?s=09

Hmm I think Verstappen could avoided Grosjean despite he would end up in St. Devote exit barrier while Alonso's move came in sync with Guti, rendering it's close to impossible to avoid. Opinion?

To be fair to Alonso, there are mitigating circumstances for his crash in comparison to Verstappen's clash with Grosjean in Monaco.

Haas have said that the energy recovery systems on Gutierrez's car malfunctioned and kicked in before he'd reached the braking zone, suddenly slowing the car down (which was why it looked to some as if Gutierrez might have braked early) - neither Gutierrez nor Alonso could have reasonably expected that to occur, which seems to explain why Alonso misjudged the closing speed.

By contrast, whilst Verstappen claimed that Grosjean had braked early in the Monaco GP, the GPS data released by Lotus showed that, on the contrary, Grosjean started to brake 3m later than he had done on the previous lap. In his case, Verstappen could and should have expected Grosjean to brake where he did and ultimately should have judged the situation better.
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by Miguel98 »

And now, it seems it's been decided to not change anything, and just run everything like in Australia.



:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by AxelP800 »

Miguel98 wrote:And now, it seems it's been decided to not change anything, and just run everything like in Australia.



:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:


Why? Giving a second chance to a broken format can give us more reason to.....mock it :P Read: Nascar's high-drag package.

Seriously?
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by Ataxia »

Proof then that F1 governance is more limp-wristed than a teenage lad after seeing boobs for the first time.

You CANNOT publically sway like this and expect everyone to just get on board. I was fine to give the whole thing a chance, but it's been handled seriously badly.

I've heard that Jean Todt was against it and asked Williams and Force India (who were the main opposition to returning to the old format) to rescind their objections, only to decide that he wanted to give it one more chance. Why am I not surprised?
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by DanielPT »

Compared with all the U-turns around its rules, I say Qualifying in Australia was quite an enjoyable show. :mrgreen:
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by Rob Dylan »

Bernie Ecclestone apparently told the Strategy Group that it was a good idea to try the dumb system again.

There were three options:
1. go back to the old system - lots of people wanted that
2. try a hybrid of the new system and the old - there was at least a vocal portion of people who wanted that
3. use the same system as in Australia - nobody wanted that.

'I think we'll try option 3'
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by dr-baker »

Rob Dylan wrote:Bernie Ecclestone apparently told the Strategy Group that it was a good idea to try the dumb system again.

The same Bernie that called the new dumb system 'crap'!
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by Meatwad »

dr-baker wrote:
Rob Dylan wrote:Bernie Ecclestone apparently told the Strategy Group that it was a good idea to try the dumb system again.

The same Bernie that called the new dumb system 'crap'!

I guess the old man wants to outlive F1. And at this rate, he definitely will.

What can you expect from a sport run by a guy who should have retired years ago and that has scum like Peter Brabeck-Letmathe on its board?
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by Aerond »

I'm not against trying the new qualifying format again... but please, somebody give drivers in Q3 a new set of the softest compound (that must be returned when the session is finished).
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by MorbidelliObese »

For me it's gone way beyond what qualifying system I prefer or my feelings on the new one tried out. This constant flip-flopping, the woe-is-me from all the team bosses interviews in Australia that came across all like "we're trying to change, pleaaaasssseeeeeee like us!!!". I hate to do the whole analogy of comparing something non-human to a...well, actual human, but it feels more and more like old F1 that I grew up watching was like the quiet nerdy kid that has more fingers than friends but those friends are actually real ones and is quietly confident and self-assured and generally doesn't give a bathplug, while modern-day F1 is like the **** that runs around trying to be everyone's friend constantly changing their look and/or personality trying to please everyone and in the process actually alienating everyone, and I know which 1 of those 2 types I was more likely to get on with when I was growing up.

*sigh* at least I have WEC and full F1 race tapes I downloaded from 1978 onwards to keep me entertained (I mean entertained in my own way, not the zillion overtaking moves per race and whole field separated by only 4 seconds per lap and 12 cars on the lead lap at the end of the race way)
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by watka »

So Bernie acknowledges the GPDA's comments that the sport's decision making is broken, and then goes and demonstrates it straight away.
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by Collieafc »

watka wrote:So Bernie acknowledges the GPDA's comments that the sport's decision making is broken, and then goes and demonstrates it straight away.


My thought exactly - its just proving the GPDAs point. You just cant make this up
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by Londoner »

McLaren and Red Bull are effectively trying to make qualifying fail next weekend, so the system can be changed. You just cannot make this stuff up. :badoer: :facepalm:
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by Bobby Doorknobs »

East Londoner wrote:McLaren and Red Bull are effectively trying to make qualifying fail next weekend, so the system can be changed. You just cannot make this stuff up. :badoer: :facepalm:

Option 1: Keep the format that has proven to be a failure without appropriate changes being made
Option 2: Introduce a hybrid format without fully addressing the issues of the one used in Australia, thus dooming it to failure

Yeah, I don't blame them.
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by andrew »

For goodness sake fia, why are you continuing with this qualifying system, it failed so badly last time, was slated by fans teams commentators alike. The fans clearly want the old system back.
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by Enforcer »

Just revert to the old system. :facepalm: The teams know how it works, the fans know how it works, the broadcasters now how it works, so everyone can implement it easily.

Or maybe go back to the even older 12 lap open session system. Just cut the time from 1hr to 30-40 minutes so there's less hanging about.
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by tommykl »

I want to say that the reason the system was a failure in Melbourne, especially in Q3, was a mixture of some teams deliberately keeping their cars in to make the system look bad and others not quite understanding how the new system worked and simply doing what they were doing in the past few years. Had the system not been scrapped and the FIA shown some backbone, we could have seen teams suck it up and actually give it a go, which might have made the system more of a success.

However, that didn't happen. The FIA said they were dropping the system almost immediately. Except not really, they're only dropping it for Q3. Except not really, because the system is staying exactly the same. Oh, and some teams aren't happy with this and are blatantly telling the media that they will actively try to sabotage the system. This has basically guaranteed to make qualifying in Bahrain even worse than it was in Australia, when it had the potential to be more interesting.

Great job, FIA.
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by Izzyeviel »

I wonder if she'll be there again. Image
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by mario »

Getting away from the bewildering mess that is the regulations, there is at least some news on Kimi's engines from last week that is reasonably positive for his fans.

Ferrari have confirmed that Kimi's retirement in Australia was due to a turbocharger failure, which was the cause of the fire that emanating from the airbox. Whilst he will still have to use a new turbocharger unit, which is not ideal, the remainder of the power unit has been passed as being fit for use in Bahrain. http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/raikk ... in-682029/
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by AndreaModa »

And to think, people used to moan about Mosley being authoritarian and single-minded.

I'd rather have Balestre in charge than what we have now. At least he got stuff done.
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by DemocalypseNow »

AndreaModa wrote:I'd rather have Balestre in charge than what we have now. At least he got stuff done.

Sounds like you've got a prime candidate here;

Image

Balestre was simply lucky he lived in the era he did. When communication was not what it is today, when it was far easier to pull the wool over the eyes. We don't need another egomaniac in charge.
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by AndreaModa »

Yep, good point, but the fact remains that if he wanted something done, changed, etc then more often than not, it happened. Same with Max.

You need someone with a strong arm, who isn't prepared to tolerate the bickering and bullsh*t coming out of the teams and instead tell them how it is and to put up or shut up. Otherwise nothing ever gets done, and if it does it's guaranteed every single time to be a fudge or compromise that doesn't deal with the problem.
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by Meatwad »

I completely agree. Todt has no power, although it's probably what they wanted after Mosley.

For example, five years ago he said that he wanted to get rid of the superally rule in WRC and I agreed with him on that. It is still used today and there hasn't even been a discussion on whether it should be removed.
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by Miguel98 »

Todt has power. He just doesn't use it. He is useless, end of story. All he cares about is the campaign for road safety, in order to get his UN spot. He's an idiot, and should be removed.
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Re: 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix

Post by DanielPT »

Miguel98 wrote:Todt has power. He just doesn't use it. He is useless, end of story. All he cares about is the campaign for road safety, in order to get his UN spot. He's an idiot, and should be removed.


Todt had power. He then decided to sell it in order to fund his still failed move to elsewhere (UN) which was based in road safety programs, the means to justify the end.
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