Another forum game: The First To The Last

[dinizintheoven]

I seem to remember a while back there was a game to link the first and last F1 World Championship races via drivers who competed in the same race. i.e:
Juan Manuel Fangio (1950 British GP & 1958 French GP), Jack Brabham (1958 French GP & 1970 Austrian GP), Mario Andretti (1970 Austrian GP & 1982 Italian GP), Nigel Mansell (1982 Italian GP & 1995 Spanish GP), Michael Schumacher (1995 Spanish GP & 2012 Brazilian GP), Daniel Ricciardo (2012 Brazilian GP & 2015 Abu Dhabi GP and who knows how far into the future).

That took six drivers, and so I'm going to raise the stakes. The question is: how many drivers would it take to link the first ever motorsport competition of any sort - i.e. the 1894 Paris to Rouen race / time trial / reliability drive, to any motorsport competition in 2016? Take the Dakar Rally if you must, seeing as it's actually happening, but anyone who is contracted and could be reasonably expected to be driving in F1, touring cars, Indy, endurance racing or the like this year will count, as would anyone likely to turn up at, say, the Argentine ePrix where the season is already underway.

Make sure each link can be verified, whether it's via Wikipedia or some other should-be-reliable source - i.e. no motorsport equivalents of Natural News, disclose.tv or any of those other hucksters.

I'll be getting my answer ready.

[dinizintheoven]

And I have some answers.

I can link the 1894 Paris-Rouen to the 2016 Dakar Rally in eight drivers, and the 1894 Paris-Rouen to 2016 in motorsport in seven drivers.

Let's see your efforts first!

[MorbidelliObese]

This'll be a work in progress for me, currently I've got from the present day to April 1964 with two drivers (working backwards), might take a bit of research this one but I'll see how I do!

EDIT: Reet I've got 9 (using the reasonably be expected to compete in 2016 starting point, not the Dakar). Will post anyway if I can't improve before bedtime

EDIT EDIT: I've managed to trim it to eight, think I'll give up for tonight at least. My effort is below. I originally went the Villeneuve > Mario Andretti route (via the 1994 CART season), before remembering reading that Martin Brundle and Stirling Moss were BTCC teammates at one point. Inevitably it's probably my pre-war knowledge (or lack of it) that lets me down - I mainly went by drivers I'd actually heard of and grand prix races, the route to the perfect answer is probably by more obscure routes I imagine.

Jacques Villeneuve (2016 Argentina Formula E, 1996 F1 season)
Martin Brundle (1996 F1 season, 1981 British Saloon Car Championship season)
Stirling Moss (1981 British Saloon Car Championship season, 1951 Swiss GP)
Louis Chiron (1951 Swiss GP, 1935 Spanish GP)
Robert Benoist (1935 Spanish GP, 1926 British GP)
Louis Wagner (1926 British GP, 1906 French GP)
George Heath (1906 French GP, 1898 Paris-Amsterdam-Paris)
Auguste Doriot (1898 Paris-Amsterdam-Paris, 1894 Paris-Rouen)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris%E2% ... motor_race)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1898_Pari ... 80%93Paris
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1906_French_Grand_Prix
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1926_British_Grand_Prix
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1935_Spanish_Grand_Prix
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951_Swiss_Grand_Prix
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Brit ... hip_season

[pi314159]

I can get from Paris-Rouen to Dakar 2016 with 7 drivers.

Albert Lemaitre (1894 Paris-Rouen, 1901 Paris-Berlin)
Henri Fournier (1901 Paris-Berlin, 1908 American Grand Prize)
Ralph DePalma (1908 American Grand Prize, 1925 Indy 500)
Ralph Hepburn (1925 Indy 500, 1946 Indy 500)
Tony Bettenhausen (1946 Indy 500, 1958 Indy 500)
AJ Foyt (1958 Indy 500, 1993 Indy 500)
Robby Gordon (1993 Indy 500, 2016 Dakar)

[Peteroli34]

Paris - Roeun - Dakar 2016 in 7

Auguste Doriote (1984 Paris Ruoen, 1898 Paris to Amsterdam)
George Heath ( 1898 Paris Amsterdam, 1906 French GP)
Louis Wagner ( 1906 French GP, 1927 I Course de Formule Libre de l'A.C.F
Louis Chiron ( 1927 I Course de Formule Libre de l'A.C.F, 1958 Monaco GP)
Jo Bonnier. ( 1958 Monaco GP, 1971 US GP)
Jacky Ickx( 1971 US GP, 2000 Dakar Rally)
Stephane Peterhansel ( 2000 Dakar, 2016 Dakar Rally)

[novitopoli]

Tom Coronel: Dakar 2016 - Le Mans 1999
Jean Pierre Jarier: Le Mans 1999 - GP Italy 1971
Graham Hill: GP Italy 1971 - GP Monaco 1958
Louis Chiron: GP Monaco 1958 - GP Italy 1931
Ferdinando Minoia: GP Italy 1931 - GP France 1908
Leon Thery: GP France 1908 - Coupe des Voiturettes 1900
Auguste Doriot Coupe des Voiturettes 1900 - Paris-Rouen 1894

[dinizintheoven]

EDIT EDIT: I've managed to trim it to eight, think I'll give up for tonight at least. My effort is below. I originally went the Villeneuve > Mario Andretti route (via the 1994 CART season), before remembering reading that Martin Brundle and Stirling Moss were BTCC teammates at one point...

Jacques Villeneuve (2016 Argentina Formula E, 1996 F1 season)
Martin Brundle (1996 F1 season, 1981 British Saloon Car Championship season)
Stirling Moss (1981 British Saloon Car Championship season, 1951 Swiss GP)
Louis Chiron (1951 Swiss GP, 1935 Spanish GP)
Robert Benoist (1935 Spanish GP, 1926 British GP)
Louis Wagner (1926 British GP, 1906 French GP)
George Heath (1906 French GP, 1898 Paris-Amsterdam-Paris)
Auguste Doriot (1898 Paris-Amsterdam-Paris, 1894 Paris-Rouen)

...and what you've come up with was my exact answer, but including an extra driver. Robert Benoist isn't needed - I know I said "no dodgy links" but in a link that might be considered dodgy until I found an Autosport thread to back it up (and peteroli34's used the same link), I found there's one race where Louis Chiron and Louis Wagner competed against each other - the Course de Formule Libre de l'A.C.F. on 2nd July 1927. Chiron came second, Wagner retired on the first lap.

I'm very impressed that the Paris-Rouen to the Dakar Rally can be done in seven moves.

Is it possible that the entire 1894-2016 timespan can be done in six drivers? Consider that what you see above - minus Robert Benoist - spans 1894-2012 in six drivers with Martin Brundle competing in the 2012 Le Mans 24 Hours, and I wonder how far into the future a seven-driver span could take us. I'd say to 2030 at a guess.

[Peteroli34]

Finding links between the major series is that hard really loads of drivers have long careers at the top level. Finding a linkbetween the first motorrace and the 2015 japanese f4 season would probably have a lot more links

[Bobby Doorknobs]

Not taking part, but something to consider that no one seems to have brought up yet: Arturo Merzario. He's still active in sportscar events. He hasn't done anything this year that I know of yet, but I wouldn't rule him out.

Or are you only considering 'major' events?

[pi314159]

Apparently there's an 83 year old Aussie driver, Bob Holden, who is still doing some lower level touring car racing in Australia. He competed against Jack Brabham in 1963, and Brabham competed against Chiron, so if we're counting Bob Holden it is possible to do 1894-2015 with just 6 drivers.

[roblo97]

Le Mans 24 Hours
1923-1930 Frank Clement
1930-1933 Odette Siko
1933-1953 Luigi Chinetti
1953-1963 Roy Salvadori
1963-1967 Dan Gurney
1967-1999 Henri Pescarolo
1999-2015 Emmanuel Collard

[Peteroli34]

They say the first person to reach 200 has already been born apparently so maybe in a few hundred years someone might be able to link some events in one link

[girry]

Ah, semantics. I've played with these links before - but with the parameter that "which drivers have raced each other" - not "which drivers raced in the same race"...which makes it harder due to the following.

As long as Buddy Lazier continues his Indy one-offs, we will have an ongoing Open Wheel link to AJ Foyt (and all those NASCAR links probably never die...). Now, the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_of_Two_Worlds 1958 was considered a single race in three heats. Since Maurice Trintignant passed his car over to Foyt after heat 1, they never raced each other - but with dinizintheoven's parameters, it counts since they took part in the same motor race - and there's a three step Open Wheel link to a pre-war motor racing winner!

(Regardless of that, Foyt definitely did compete against Fangio and Fairman - both pre-WWII racers in some capacity.)

Some other notes: Chiron has a link with Arthur Duray from 1930 Belgian GP and 1933 Spa 24h, and his career started even earlier than Minoia's. Kazuyoshi Hasemi, a Nissan factory driver since '69, will keep matching with several Japanese drivers for a long time, given the average career length of the Japanese - he retired from Super GT in 2002 - and Emmo's one off in the Ferrari in WEC 2014 will also be interesting material for the future since he shared the track with the likes of Lucas Auer and James Calado, who have the potential to continue well into 2030's...

[pi314159]

Roblomas, Siko and Chinetti can be replaced with just Chiron, shortening the chain to six drivers.

[pi314159]

I can now do it with just 5 drivers:

Georges Lemaitre (1894 Paris-Rouen, 1901 Paris-Berlin)
Christian Werner (1901 Paris-Berlin, 1928 German Grand Prix)
Louis Chiron (1928 German Grand Prix, 1958 Monaco Grand Prix)
Jack Brabham (1958 Monaco Grand Prix, 1995 Eastern Creek 12h)
Warren Luff (1995 Eastern Creek 12h, scheduled to take part in 2016 Bathurst 12h)

[Peteroli34]

so i could get it down to six

Auguste Doriote (1984 Paris Ruoen, 1898 Paris to Amsterdam)
George Heath ( 1898 Paris Amsterdam, 1906 French GP)
Louis Wagner ( 1906 French GP, 1927 I Course de Formule Libre de l'A.C.F
Louis Chiron ( 1927 I Course de Formule Libre de l'A.C.F, 1958 Monaco GP)
Sterling Moss. ( 1958 Monaco GP, 2011 Le Mans Legends)
Jon Minshaw (2011 Le Mans Legends, 2016 British GT)

[MorbidelliObese]

Slightly OT but its a similar sort of thing - I decided if I could try and find the smallest number of WDC links from Silverstone 1950 to the present day, but with the added restriction that the drivers didn't just compete against each other, but were teammates, my best effort was 7:

Prince Bira
Roy Salvadori (Connaught 1953 Britain, France, Germany)
Jack Brabham (Cooper 1958)
Rolf Stommelen (Brabham 1970)
Riccardo Patrese (Arrows 1978)
Michael Schumacher (Benetton 1993)
Nico Rosberg (Mercedes 2010-2013)