The Pole Trophy elimination alternative championship

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 05 Jan 2015, 20:58

Haven't done an alternative championship in ages so I'll do one which I think is going to be pretty simple - as The Pole Trophy was introduced in 2014, I'll work it out from 1950, with the exception that once a driver wins it he gets eliminated from all future years, several other chapmionships have been done in this way.

Doing it without elimination is pointless as it's documented here:

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/11/29/w ... 1950-2013/

I'll do poles only and only look at other placings in the event of a tiebreak, and I'm not really sure how grid penalties affect it (I.e. races like Monaco 2012 where the fastest driver in qualifying didn't start from pole) but I'll do the best I can.

Fangio has already been identified as 1950 champion, so I'll start at 1951 without Fangio:

1951

Guiseppe Farina 4 SUI BEL FRA ITA
Alberto Ascari 2 GER ESP
Jose Froilan Gonzalez 1 GBR

Also not bothering with Indy 500 for the 50s - but look forward to seeing how this will turn out in later years!

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 05 Jan 2015, 21:13

1952

Alberto Ascari 6 BEL FRA GBR GER NED ITA
Piero Taruffi 1 SUI

Not really a surprise with Ascari being real champion but some of these could be a bit one-sided to be honest......

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 05 Jan 2015, 21:26

1953

Luigi Villoresi 2 ARG NED (3 2nds)
Jose Froilan Gonzalez 2 BEL GBR (2 2nds)
Felice Bonetto 1 FRA
Onofre Marimon 1 ITA
Mike Hawthorn 1 GER
Maurice Trintignant 1 SUI

Corrected after the good advice of tommykl.

I STILL hate the 50s though.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 05 Jan 2015, 21:37

1954

Jose Froilan Gonzalez 4 ARG BEL GBR SUI
Mike Hawthorn 2 GER ESP
Karl Kling 1 FRA
Stirling Moss 1 ITA

Definitely easier this one!

(No change even after consulting Stats F1)

Post by **tommykl** » 05 Jan 2015, 22:52

James1978 wrote:Oh dear - I'm taking these results from Wikipedia and from mid-season it stopped listing qualifying results so I was going by grid positions. If there was a shared drive it wasn't clear which one qualified but in all cases of this happening there was one eliminated river and the other still in so I credited pole to the non-eliminated one. Someone stop me if I'm wrong.

I hate the 50s.

StatsF1 is a good source for this

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 07 Jan 2015, 21:08

1955

Stirling Moss 4 MON NED GBR ITA
Jean Behra 1 ARG
Eugenio Castelloti 1 BEL

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 07 Jan 2015, 21:41

1956

Eugenio Castellotti 4 ARG MON FRA ITA
Peter Collins 2 BEL GER
Mike Hawthorn 1 GBR

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 07 Jan 2015, 22:10

1957

Jean Behra 3 ARG FRA GBR
Peter Collins 1 MON
Mike Hawthorn 1 GER
Luigi Musso 1 PES
Wolfgang Von Trips 1 ITA

Wow, a non race winner as world champion!

I'm only working out ties when it affects the overall winner BTW.

Post by **tommykl** » 08 Jan 2015, 08:40

James1978 wrote:Wow, a non race winner as world champion!

You notice it for Behra, yet not for Castellotti?

Also, Amon won the 1968 title even without elimination, so that's another surefire one. Perhaps Heidfeld in the future?

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 08 Jan 2015, 12:32

Oops, thought Castellotti had won a race!!

BTW does anyone know as I need to know for future reference, was the driver credited with "Pole" in the 2012 Monaco GP Schumacher or Webber? Becuase I reckon it could make a difference when I get into the modern day grid penalty era.

Similar if the polesitter had to start from the back of the grid or pitlane (i.e. Monaco 2001, Spain 2012)?

Post by **tommykl** » 08 Jan 2015, 12:58

James1978 wrote:Oops, thought Castellotti had won a race!!

BTW does anyone know as I need to know for future reference, was the driver credited with "Pole" in the 2012 Monaco GP Schumacher or Webber? Becuase I reckon it could make a difference when I get into the modern day grid penalty era.

Similar if the polesitter had to start from the back of the grid or pitlane (i.e. Monaco 2001, Spain 2012)?

Pole-sitter is the man who starts in first place.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 10 Jan 2015, 08:03

1958

Mike Hawthorn 6 ARG BEL FRA GER POR ITA
Tony Brooks 2 MON ITA
Stuart Lewis-Evans 1 NED
Harry Schell 1 GBR

Not really a surprise this one but Schell prevents Brits from getting every pole, ironically in Britain!

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 10 Jan 2015, 08:15

1959

Jack Brabham 4 MON GBR POR USA
Tony Brooks 3 FRA GER ITA
Jo Bonnier 1 NED

This actually went to the last race as a decider.

BTW what happened to Cliff Allison at the German GP? Stats F1 says he was the fastest qualifier but only 14th on the grid. It has an explanation at the bottom but it's in French and I can't seem to be able to translate the page! (So I counted Brooks for pole at that race as it says on the starting grid).

Not that it makes a difference to who is champion mind you!

Post by **tommykl** » 10 Jan 2015, 08:19

James1978 wrote:BTW what happened to Cliff Allison at the German GP? Stats F1 says he was the fastest qualifier but only 14th on the grid. It has an explanation at the bottom but it's in French and I can't seem to be able to translate the page! (So I counted Brooks for pole at that race as it says on the starting grid).

Reading it, it says that while he set the fastest lap, he was sent to the back because he was Ferrari's reserve driver. I don't know the rules behind this. Maybe Ferrari preferred Brooks (who was second) to have pole, and the only way they would be allowed to do so was to send the fairly unimportant Allison to the back of the grid?

All it says is that he started 14th because he was the reserve driver.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 11 Jan 2015, 20:41

1960

Phil Hill 2 FRA ITA (1 2nd BEL)
Innes Ireland 2 ARG NED (0 2nd)
Tony Brooks 2 MON BEL (0 2nd)
Graham Hill 1 GBR
John Surtees 1 POR
Dan Gurney 1 USA

Quite an open year and yes a tiebreak was required!

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 11 Jan 2015, 20:52

1961

Wolfgang Von Trips 4 NED BEL FRA ITA
Richie Ginther 2 MON GBR
Jo Bonnier 1 GER
Graham Hill 1 USA

This one was clinched in absolutely tragic circumstances - von Trips sealed the title with his pole at Monza before his fatal accident in the race the next day.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 11 Jan 2015, 21:10

1962

Jim Clark 6 MON FRA GBR ITA USA RSA
John Surtees 1 NED
Graham Hill 1 BEL
Dan Gurney 1 GER

Absolutely dominant performance from Clark. Especially considering he didn't win the main championship and only Phil Hill and Brabham were eliminated!

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 11 Jan 2015, 22:00

1963

Graham Hill 5 MON BEL NED FRA USA
John Surtees 3 GER ITA MEX
Dan Gurney 2 GBR RSA

With Clark out of the way, it was an easy win for Hill.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 13 Jan 2015, 11:07

1964

Dan Gurney 5 NED BEL FRA GBR MEX (5 2nd)
John Surtees 5 MON GER AUT ITA USA (3 2nd)

With the poles being equally shared between two drivers (and nobody else getting a look in), it went on the number of 2nds. Gurney got 2nd every time Surtees got the pole, but Surtees missed out of 2nd in Belgium (Arundell) and Mexico (ironically, his teammate Bandini but by then it was too late for him).

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 13 Jan 2015, 11:45

1965

Jackie Stewart 4 MON FRA BEL GER (2 2nd)
Richie Ginther 4 GBR NED USA MEX (1 2nd)
John Surtees 2 RSA ITA

Stewart has this sewn up after Monza - he was 2 ahead of Ginther who couldn't catch him on count back, and Surtees missing the last 2 races due to injury. Surtees would have appeared to have been "next in line" but he was overtaken by that new kid on the block!

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 13 Jan 2015, 12:19

1966

John Surtees 4 MON BEL GER MEX
Lorenzo Bandini 2 FRA USA (1 2nd)
Denny Hulme 2 GBR NED (0 2nd)
Mike Parkes 1 ITA

Finally Surtees gets it after a few years of near misses.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 15 Jan 2015, 20:27

1967

Denny Hulme 4 RSA GBR GER CAN (4 2nd)
Chris Amon 2 USA MEX (4 2nd)
Bruce McLaren 2 FRA ITA (1 2nd)
Jochen Rindt 2 NED BEL (0 2nd)
Lorenzo Bandini 1 MON
Pedro Rodriguez o (2 2nd)

Well Hulme was by far the most consistent through the year and he also became world champion. But his countryman Amon showed great promise for next year with poles at the last 2 races! Tragically Bandini scored pole at Monaco the day before his fatal accident.

And I have decided I will do 2nds as well from now on.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 15 Jan 2015, 20:52

1968

Chris Amon 3 ESP BEL NED (6 2nd)
Jochen Rindt 3 RSA FRA CAN (1 2nd)
Jacky Ickx 1 GER (2 2nd)
Jo Siffert 1 MEX (1 2nd)
Johnny Servoz-Gavin 1 MON (0 2nd)
Jackie Oliver 1 GBR (0 2nd)
Bruce McLaren 1 ITA (0 2nd)
Mario Andretti 1 USA (0 2nd)
Andrea De Adamich 0 (1 2nd)
Pedro Rodriguez 0 (1 2nd)

Well Amon did do it without elimination but he only scored 3 poles and Rindt could have overtaken him if he'd done it in any of the last 2 races but he failed. A very open year overall though!

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 15 Jan 2015, 20:54

James1978 wrote:1968

Chris Amon

The moment we've all been waiting for!

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 15 Jan 2015, 21:59

1969

Jochen Rindt 7 RSA ESP NED FRA GBR ITA USA (1 2nd)
Jacky Ickx 3 GER CAN MEX (3 2nd)
Jean-Pierre Beltoise 1 MON (1 2nd)
Jo Siffert 0 (3 2nd)
Mario Andretti 0 (2 2nd)
Piers Courage 0 (1 2nd)

After the last few years being close, Rindt was absolutely dominant this time, he had it sewn up at Monza (where he got killed the following year, there seems to be an eerie theme here....)

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 16 Jan 2015, 20:23

1970

Jacky Ickx 10 RSA MON BEL NED FRA GBR GER ITA CAN USA (2 2nd)
Clay Regazzoni 2 AUT MEX (2 2nd)
Jean-Pierre Beltoise 1 ESP (3 2nd)
Pedro Rodriguez 0 (3 2nd)
Jackie Oliver 0 (2 2nd)
Emerson Fittipaldi 0 (1 2nd)

The most dominant performance yet! Ickx does win this without any eliminations but most of the other frontrunners that year are already eliminated (Stewart, Rindt, Amon, Brabham etc) and Regazzoni didn't start till midseason.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 18 Jan 2015, 12:00

1971

Jo Siffert 5 MON GER AUT ITA CAN (1 2nd)
Clay Regazzoni 4 RSA ESP FRA GBR (3 2nd)
Pedro Rodriguez 1 NED (3 2nd)
Emerson Fittipaldi 1 USA (0 2nd)
Francois Cevert 0 (2 2nd)
Mario Andretti 0 (1 2nd)
Howden Ganley 0 (1 2nd)

Another winner in tragic circumstances as Siffert gets killed 3 weeks after clinching his title. Regazzoni dominated the first half of the season and looked a dead cert at mid season but really suffered in the 2nd half, however he'd have won it if he'd beaten Fittipaldi at Watkins Glen.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 18 Jan 2015, 13:12

1972

Emerson Fittipaldi 6 ESP MON BEL GBR GER AUT (2 2nd)
Clay Regazzoni 2 RSA ITA (3 2nd)
Peter Revson 2 CAN USA (2 2nd)
Carlos Reutemann 1 ARG (0 2nd)
Tim Schenken 1 FRA (0 2nd) (!!!!)
Ronnie Peterson 0 (2 2nd)
Mario Andretti o (1 2nd)
Helmut Marko 0 (1 2nd) (!!!!!)
Francois Cevert 0 (1 2nd)

No real surprises in terms of the winner, and Regazzoni gets his third runner-up in as many years. The biggest shock was seeing a Schenken-Marko front row in France (they were 5th and 6th with the top 4 eliminated).

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 18 Jan 2015, 21:00

1973

Ronnie Peterson 12 (2 2nd)
Jody Scheckter 2 RSA FRA (0 2nd)
Clay Regazzoni 1 ARG (1 12nd)
Francois Cevert 0 (7 2nd)
Peter Revson 0 (4 2nd)
Carlos Reutemann 0 (1 2nd)

I know Peterson won this without eliminations but even so that is ridiculous domination - not even bothering to list his poles but it's every race apart from Argentina, South Africa and France. Scheckter getting runner up despite only being an occasional driver makes you wonder though! Also can't believe Cevert and Revson never got a pole in their whole careers even after eliminations!

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 18 Jan 2015, 21:40

1974

Niki Lauda 10 RSA ESP MON NED FRA GBR GER AUT ITA CAN (1 2nd)
Clay Regazzoni 2 ARG BEL (4 2nd)
Carlos Reutemann 2 BRA USA (2 2nd)
Patrick Depailler 1 SWE (0 2nd)
Jody Scheckter 0 (4 2nd)
Peter Revson 0 (1 2nd)
Carlos Pace 0 (1 2nd)
Tom Pryce 0 (1 2nd)
James Hunt 0 (1 2nd)

Another totally dominant performance - for the first few races it looked close as 4 drivers scored poles in the first 7 races but then Lauda got a run of 7 in a row from Zandvoort onwards. Regazzoni is back in his usual runners up spot after missing it in 1973. However having Lauda out as early as this probably does make things interesting for the next few seasons!

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 19 Jan 2015, 19:28

1975

Carlos Pace 3 RSA BEL GER (2 2nd)
Clay Regazzoni 3 ESP NED ITA (0 2nd)
Jean-Pierre Jarier 2 ARG BRA (2 2nd)
Tom Pryce 2 MON GBR (0 2nd)
James Hunt 1 AUT (3 2nd)
Jody Scheckter 1 FRA (2 2nd)
Carlos Reutemann 1 USA (2 2nd)
Vittorio Brambilla 1 SWE (1 2nd)
Patrick Depailler 0 (1 2nd)
Hans-Joachim Stuck 0 (1 2nd)

Compared to the last few years of domination, this was a very open year (helped in no end by Lauda being eliminated) with Pace just about doing enough to win it. I had Regazzoni as the favourite as the Ferrari was the best car on average that year and his teammate was already eliminated but no, it's his 5th runner-up in 6 seasons!! I credited Jarier with the Argentina pole even though he was a non-starter, but it made no difference to the champion - Pace was 2nd anyway so would have had an extra pole had I disqualified Jarier.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 19 Jan 2015, 22:02

1976

One more for today, and while the winner comes as little surprise, I bet it's going to take a genius who's going to finish runner up again!!

James Hunt 10 BRA RSA ESP FRA GBR GER AUT NED CAN USA (2 2nd)
Clay Regazzoni 3 USW BEL MON (0 2nd)
Jody Scheckter 1 SWE (2 2nd)
Mario Andretti 1 JPN (2 2nd)
Jacques Laffite 1 ITA (0 2nd)
Patrick Depailler 0 (5 2nd)
John Watson 0 (2 2nd)
Jean-Pierre Jarier 0 (1 2nd)
Tom Pryce 0 (1 2nd)
Vittorio Brambilla 0 (1 2nd)

Regazzoni seems well and truly cursed though this time he wasn't in any sort of position to challenge Hunt. His good patch just came at a time where McLaren were struggling. Surprised that the winner's teammate though fully eligible, didn't even get a front row!!

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 22 Jan 2015, 21:04

1977

Mario Andretti 9 USW ESP BEL SWE FRA AUT NED CAN JPN (1 2nd)
John Watson 3 ARG MON GBR (5 2nd)
Carlos Reutemann 2 BRA ITA
Jody Scheckter 1 GER (5 2nd)
Patrick Depailler 1 RSA (1 2nd)
Hans-Joachim Stuck 1 USA (1 2nd)
Jacques Laffite 0 (2 2nd)
Gunnar Nilsson 0 (2 2nd)

After a bit of a slow start, Andretti was unbeatable once the ground-effect car was developed. But good because it means both dominant Lotuses are out for 1978!

(And no sign of the perennial runner-up Regazzoni. Well he was in an Ensign after all

)

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 22 Jan 2015, 22:24

1978

Carlos Reutemann 8 ARG BRA USW MON BEL ESP NED USA (1 2nd)
John Watson 2 SWE FRA (3 2nd)
Jody Scheckter 2 GBR GER (2 2nd)
Gilles Villeneuve 1 ITA (4 2nd)
Patrick Tambay 1 RSA (2 2nd)
Jean-Pierre Jabouille 1 AUT (1 2nd)
Jean-Pierre Jarier 1 CAN (0 2nd)
Riccardo Patrese 0 (2 2nd)
Alan Jones 0 (1 2nd)

Thought it would be quite an open year with both Lotuses out (save Jarier at the end of the season) but Reutemann was quite often best of the rest (vying with the eliminated Lauda). REutemann never really had any consistent challengers.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 23 Jan 2015, 21:37

1979

Jean-Pierre Jabouille 4 RSA FRA GER ITA (1 2nd)
Jacques Laffite 4 ARG BRA ESP BEL (0 2nd)
Alan Jones 3 GBR CAN USA (3 2nd)
Rene Arnoux 2 AUT NED (2 2nd)
Jody Scheckter 1 MON (2 2nd)
Gilles Villeneuve 1 USW (2 2nd)
Patrick Depailler 0 (4 2nd)
Nelson Piquet 0 (1 2nd)

Very little changes from the original results as the eliminated drivers featured very little this year. Only 1 result changed - Scheckter got an extra 2bd place at Long Beach with Reutemann out. We still had in both Renaults, both Ferraris, both Ligiers (when they were competitive anyway) and both Williamses. For all those years Regazzoni came runner-up, now he doesn't even get a front row despite driving a Williams!!

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 25 Jan 2015, 10:12

1980

Rene Arnoux 4 RSA AUT NED ITA (3 2nd)
Alan Jones 3 ARG BEL GER (4 2nd)
Didier Pironi 3 BRA MON GBR (1 2nd)
Nelson Piquet 2 USW CAN (2 2nd)
Jacques Laffite 1 FRA (2 2nd)
Bruno Giacomelli 1 USA (1 2nd)
Gilles Villeneuve 0 (1 2nd)

Gotta feel sorry for Jones, he probably deserved it more but was up against a turbo Renault which could stretch its legs as some of the faster circuits on the calendar, especially as he managed to beat Arnoux at Hockenheim of all places! Jones wouldn't have won the championship had Spain counted though, as Laffite got the pole there.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 25 Jan 2015, 16:01

1981

Alain Prost 5 GBR GER AUT NED ITA (3 2nd)
Nelson Piquet 5 BRA ARG BEL MON CAN (2 2nd)
Alan Jones 1 CPL (5 2nd)
Gilles Villeneuve 1 RSM (3 2nd)
Jacques Laffite 1 ESP (1 2nd)
John Watson 1 FRA (0 2nd)
Riccardo Patrese 1 USW (0 2nd)
Didier Pironi 0 (1 2nd)

There's that turbo Renault again! Piquet was well ahead until the mid-season until we got to the circuits which suited the turbos all in a row. Second year in succession the real champion narrowly loses. But it does mean we have no Renaults in for 1982! (And also Prost being out this early should make things interesting later on)........

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 25 Jan 2015, 19:42

1982

Nelson Piquet 5 RSA NED GER AUT ITA (1 2nd)
Riccardo Patrese 2 MON SUI (3 2nd)
Keke Rosberg 2 BEL GBR (2 2nd)
Didier Pironi 2 CAN FRA (2 2nd)
Gilles Villeneuve 2 BRA RSM (1 2nd)
Andrea De Cesaris 2 USW DET (1 2nd)
Michele Alboreto 1 CPL (1 2nd)
Bruno Giacomelli 0 (2 2nd)
Patrick Tambay o (2 2nd)
Eddie Cheever 0 (1 2nd)

This was a VERY odd season. The Renaults tended to dominate all but the tight tracks but they were both eliminated, meaning the poles got quite roughly shared around. Villeneuve made the early running but was then killed at Zolder, but such was the way things got shared round that nobody overtook him until the British Grand Prix! Eventually once Brabham started getting their turbo in order they were the team to beat, especially as Ferrari has an often changing line-up (and even brought the eliminated Andretti back for Monza, for which Piquet took that pole too).

There were two bones of contention which confused the issue a bit, but as Piquet had 3 poles more than anyone else, it wouldn't change the champion:

Brands Hatch, Rosberg was on pole but his car failed to start on the parade lap and he had to start from the back of the grid. I've credited him with pole as he was there on the grid before the parade lap and did take part in the race. The other was Hockenheim, Pironi qualified on pole on the Friday then had his carer-ending accident on the Saturday - as he wasn't present on the grid on Sunday, I've credited Piquet with the pole there (he was next up after the two eliminated Renaults).

Some may disagree but taking one pole off Piquet and giving one to Pironi doesn't change anything in terms of the champion.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 26 Jan 2015, 20:43

1983

Patrick Tambay 10 USW RSM BEL DET CAN GBR GER AUT NED RSA (3 2nd)
Eddie Cheever 2 FRA MON (0 2nd)
Riccardo Patrese 1 ITA (5 2nd)
Elio De Angelis 1 EUR (3 2nd)
Keke Rosberg 1 BRA (1 2nd)
Andrea De Cesaris 0 (2 2nd)
Nigel Mansell 0 (1 2nd)

After a few years of it being very close, we're back to stupid domination again. The main three teams that year (Brabham, Renault, Ferrari) all had their lead drivers eliminated so it was between the 2nd drivers, but I would have expected Cheever and Patrese to have given Tambaby more of a challenge. Rosberg had a quick last hurrah for Cosworths at the start of the year but it was turbos all along from then on!

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 27 Jan 2015, 21:49

1984

Elio De Angelis 8 BRA FRA CAN GBR GER AUT NED ITA (1 2nd)
Keke Rosberg 3 RSA RSM EUR (4 2nd)
Nigel Mansell 3 MON DET DAL (1 2nd)
Michele Alboreto 1 BEL (4 2nd)
Ayrton Senna 1 POR (0 2nd)
Derek Warwick 0 (5 2nd)
Teo Fabi 0 (1 2nd)

This was anyone's up to mid season then De Angelis suddenly whacked in 5 on the trot from Brands Hatch to Monza which strangled the competition, and he didn't do anything all that special but he was usually first up behind Piquet, Prost and Lauda. Rosberg deserves a special mention for dragging 3 poles out of that ill-handling Williams though! Think the last race of the season may well be the shape of things to come too!