The Mark Webber Appreciation Thread

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 27 Jun 2013, 08:11

On the 27th June 2013 (Nico Rosberg's birthday!), Australian F1 driver Mark Webber announced his retirement.
It's easier to do a new thread than talk about this on the 2014 Silly Season Thread so this thread is for you to post your opinions about Webber, the best moments in his 12-year career and other things in his career that aren't to do with F1.

Gerudo Dragon · Post by **Gerudo Dragon** » 27 Jun 2013, 08:22

Wow, I hope Mark does well in WEC.

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 27 Jun 2013, 08:32

- Australia 2002, fifth place and two points on debut (or "deboo" as you say in Australia, as I gather from cricket commentators), in a Minardi, and gatecrashing the podium with Paul Stoddart to celebrate.
- Le Mans 1999, "watch that gust of wind, what gust of wind... stone the crows, cobber, I'm upside down!"
- Valencia 2010, "mind that green mobile chicane, what mobile green chicane... not again!"
- Malaysia 2004, hauling a second successive underperforming Jaguar onto the front row of the grid

And the wins. "YES! YES YES YES YES YES YES YES!" (and so on) at the Nürburgring in 2009, Silverstone 2010's "not bad for a number two driver!" is one we'll all remember for a long time, but Hungary later that year will be the best of the lot... for this:

...and the fun that WTF1 had with it. Buy the t-shirt.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 27 Jun 2013, 09:41

Mark Webber was one of those drivers who always just wanted to drive the car flat out instead of it getting handicapped by the Pirelli Tires. At the Classic Tracks which really make a driver he was nearly untouchable with 2 wins at Monaco and Silverstone and Interlagos. These new Herman Tilke tracks don't really play to his strengths either as Vettel has the edge on him on all these tracks. Webber was probably the Gerhard Berger of F1 in these times: Untouchable on his day but lacking that last 1-2% to fight for the title.

9 Wins 36 Podiums 11 Poles and 15 Fastest Laps is still a great achievement and I hope he has a great Career with Porsche

rachel1990 · Post by **rachel1990** » 27 Jun 2013, 09:48

Mark is a classic F1 driver who will be sorely missed.
My favourite win was Britain 2010 when his team did everything to try and let his team-mate win and YET he still won 'Not bad for a Number two driver'
He should have been 2010 WC but Korea and Red bull trying to get Vettel to win all the time killed his chances.

Mark you shall be missed in F1 (take Vettel Out in Britain or win it please!!!!!!)

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 27 Jun 2013, 09:49

rachel1990 wrote:Mark is a classic F1 driver who will be sorely missed.
My favourite win was Britain 2010 when his team did everything to try and let his team-mate win and YET he still won 'Not bad for a Number two driver'
He should have been 2010 WC but Korea and Red bull trying to get Vettel to win all the time killed his chances.

Mark you shall be missed in F1 (take Vettel Out in Britain or win it please!!!!!!)

Even better stop Vettel from Winning the Title. Give your old pal Alonso the title.

Post by **mario** » 27 Jun 2013, 10:04

darkapprentice77 wrote:Wow, I hope Mark does well in WEC.

Well, it has now been confirmed that Webber is, as many suspected, heading up Porsche's attack on the WEC for 2014. I guess that it probably is a good thing for him - if, as seems to be the case, his heart is no longer in F1, he might as well take up a new challenge elsewhere and see if he can regain some of that old sparkle again. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108303

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 27 Jun 2013, 10:27

Mark Webber, the man who could have been king.

Only he knows what was going through his mind that dar at Korea, because his heart clearly wasn't there. He blew his chance there and then. That's the difference between Berger and him, by the way: the Austrian never had a real shot at the title.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 27 Jun 2013, 11:36

He probably should've won the 2010 title. Hopefully now he will find a bit of fire in his belly and start to be more competitive. He's leaving F1 now so no point in playing second-fiddle to Vettel.

Ross Prawn · Post by **Ross Prawn** » 27 Jun 2013, 11:44

Its unfortunately logical, Mark wasn't going to get a chance at the championship at Red Bull, and its difficult to see where he might have gone for a better car.

But whats really interesting is that its another sign of how serious Porsche are about their WEC return. Book your tickets for the Sarthe next year, maybe we might see a real race at last.

And Mark can drive flat out for 24 hours, which is a bit different to current F1.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 27 Jun 2013, 11:50

Gutted as he was the last remaining driver in F1 older than me.

I'm hoping this gives him a second wind and we see more 2010 form from him in the second half of this year. And I view others' sentiments about how it could affect the title battle.

the Masked Lapwing · Post by **the Masked Lapwing** » 27 Jun 2013, 11:55

I think it was the perfect time for him to call it a day, considering I now pay a lot more attention to the Aussie fighting for lower points than the one (supposedly) fighting for wins. I really hope at some point this year he gets the opportunity to stick it to Vettel.

On the downside, the cynic in me sees this as the beginning of the end for F1 in Australia. At this point Webber is the only thing keeping the Aussie GP here, and if Ricciardo doesn't land the RBR drive (or any front running drive), the race won't last beyond 2015 (it'll be lucky to get that far, really).

Meatwad · Post by **Meatwad** » 27 Jun 2013, 12:05

rachel1990 wrote:He should have been 2010 WC but Korea and Red bull trying to get Vettel to win all the time killed his chances.

Webber drove well in 2010 but Vettel deserved the title. They both threw away a couple of good results with driving errors (Vettel in Turkey and Belgium, Webber in Valencia and Korea) but Vettel had several very costly technical problems (Australia, Malaysia, Korea) while Webber had few if any. The only race where I can remember Webber losing points through no fault of his own was in Turkey when Vettel crashed into him but even that was more costly for Vettel (Webber dropped from first to third, losing ten points; Vettel retired from second, losing eighteen points). I can't even remember any clear cases of favoritism other than the wing incident in Silverstone but Webber ended up winning in spite of that, helped by Vettel having a puncture at the start. Webber had the best car that season, enjoying the same pace advantage as Vettel and the best reliability of the championship contenders (even Alonso had an engine failure in Malaysia with his usually bulletproof Ferrari). Back to driving errors, none of the championship contenders (Vettel, Webber, Alonso, Hamilton) had an error-free season. Kubica was the best driver that year.

Webber's debut race was probably the best of his career in my opinion. Winning with a good car is impressive but scoring points (and finishing ahead of better cars) with the worst car on the grid is a rare occurrence. He surely had one of the most impressive debuts in the entire history of F1.

Good luck to Webber in WEC. I hope he does better at Le Mans than on his last attempt.

Eifelland · Post by **Eifelland** » 27 Jun 2013, 12:10

As unpopular an opinion as this is, I never really liked Mark much. I found him to be a good driver - not as good as say, the Jenson Buttons of this world, but more of a, as someone said earlier, Gerhard Berger. What I didn't like was his whinging about being mistreated by the team. I would broadly accept that Red Bull did favour Vettel at several points, but realistically, what team wouldn't? Red Bull don't have generations of proud history, ala Ferrari or McLaren, for a new team (and a team that has spent as much as they have), success needs to be achieved, and undoubtedly, it will end up being preferable to fair treatment.

I think the latter (more successful) years of his career will eventually be remembered specfically for his good run of results, but I think for now it is hard to see past the way that he managed to miss out on the 2010 title, and the whole 'Not bad for a second driver' schtick, which I found somewhat distasteful. It was no better when Alonso (who is a much better driver) was throwing his toys out of the pram at McLaren, although you could (and I will) argue that Alonso went on to fully acquit himself at Ferrari, by showing how great a racer he truly is, even if it was at a team that favour their lead driver past the point of ridiculousness. Would he have won the 2010 title if Seb hadn't been the golden boy? Perhaps, but at the end of the day, he failed to deliver when it really mattered, and the Vettel juggernaut ended up

It's not like Mark was Rubens Barrichello either, well, at least in terms of being mistreated by his team. In terms of talent, he probably was. At least he's quitting while he's ahead though, and can hang up his helmet knowing he didn't fade away into obscurity with 10 DNFs and a bunch of 12th places to his name in his final sery eason, as many drivers before him (are you listening, Damon Hill?) have ended up doing.

All that said, I think I like pretty much every team and driver going at the moment at least to a degree, and you can't deny, everyone seems to really like him (except maybe Helmut Marko), and he has been a great representative for the drivers during his time in the sport.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 27 Jun 2013, 12:13

Am I the only one who thinks he seriously under preformed at RBR? He should of won the title in 2010, but otherwise....... I mean he never even recorded a P2 in the championship in what everyone agrees has been the best car. And yes certainly Mark has been handicapped by being a #2 driver, its no where near the level many of you claim, Rubens had it much, much worse and put up better results. And not to beat a dead horse, but how awful were his starts?

Now I will miss Mark in F1, as I find his gritty attitude a nice change of pace, but let's not kid ourselves that we're losing Ascari here. Besides, I think he will do quite well in the WEC. They have rolling starts there :lol:

Post by **tommykl** » 27 Jun 2013, 12:44

The thing with the 2010 championship is that, had Red Bull decided that Webber was their best bet at the championship, they would probably have hinted at Seb that he should let Mark through in Japan and Brazil (where Vettel won the race with Webber second) had the team not been favouring Vettel. In that case, Mark would have won the title.

Oh, and 4000 posts

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 27 Jun 2013, 12:47

Ferrim wrote:Mark Webber, the man who could have been king.

Only he knows what was going through his mind that dar at Korea, because his heart clearly wasn't there. He blew his chance there and then. That's the difference between Berger and him, by the way: the Austrian never had a real shot at the title.

I have always thought of Mark Webber as the Gerhard Berger of this generation, in the sense that he was a very good driver, but unfortunate to be around the same time as many other greats. Webber was around the same time as Alonso, Raikkonen, Vettel and Hamilton whilst Berger was around the same time as Prost, Schumacher, Senna, Mansell and Piquet.

You're right though, the only difference is that Berger never had a real shot at the title, the one time he was as good as Senna was 1992, where McLaren didn't have the car to challenge.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 27 Jun 2013, 12:48

Here's hoping he does well in the WEC and wins Le Mans five times over.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 27 Jun 2013, 12:53

I'm gonna miss Mark in F1, but ultimately I think this is the best for him. It's clear that he hasn't been enjoying Formula 1 as much as he used to. Hopefully, he'll find the success he deserves with Porsche.

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 27 Jun 2013, 14:19

Darn, Wibbah will be sorely missed. Back in my earliest memories of F1, even I was amazed at his ability to drag uncompetitive Jaguars into the front row in qualifying. Hopefully he finishes the rest of the season strong. I'm also now expecting a column by eytl at some point in the next month to properly eulogize his career.

DOSBoot · Post by **DOSBoot** » 27 Jun 2013, 14:51

Sad news to hear of my favorite driver leaving, but it is probably for the better. I always liked him because he was one of the most down-to-earth of all the drivers. Never afraid to say what was on his mind, and always gave it best when he was his best. I will always believe he deserved that 2010 drivers championship, but was duped by his team over Vettel. Sure, Korea did damaged his hopes, but he was still in contention, and ahead of Vettel, so Red Bull still could have backed Webber up, but they didn't, and I'll always hold a grudge against them for it.

Still, despite not winning a championship, he has achieved much success. Multiple Monaco winner, multiple Silverstone winner, and championship contender. Something many drivers can only dream of getting. Moving to Porcshe for WEC sounds like a wise move. Maybe he can finally get that ill-fated Le Mans win that has been eluding him so much. If he achieves this, then I hope he goes for the triple crown. (Monaco, Le Mans, Indy.) Until that happens, I hope he keeps Vettel from getting another championship as much as possible now.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 27 Jun 2013, 15:00

Well, we will all miss Aussie Grit in F1. There are plenty of moments a remember watching in his career. Yes, flying cars is a part of it. Let's hope he has no such luck with flying cars at Le Mans again!

And I've always wanted to see him on the podium at Le Mans, so good luck to him in the WEC!

As for Enoch writing an article, I would not be surprised by him writing an article as a memoriam to his career. In fact, I want to see it happen!

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 27 Jun 2013, 15:32

good_Ralf wrote:On the 27th June 2013 (Nico Rosberg's birthday!), Australian F1 driver Mark Webber announced his retirement.

MW has no soul. Ruining Nico Rosberg's birthday like this

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 27 Jun 2013, 15:35

Jocke1 wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:On the 27th June 2013 (Nico Rosberg's birthday!), Australian F1 driver Mark Webber announced his retirement.

MW has no soul. Ruining Nico Rosberg's birthday like this

What? Are you joking, Jocke?

madmark1974 · Post by **madmark1974** » 27 Jun 2013, 15:36

Jocke1 wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:On the 27th June 2013 (Nico Rosberg's birthday!), Australian F1 driver Mark Webber announced his retirement.

MW has no soul. Ruining Nico Rosberg's birthday like this

That'll teach him for Brazil 2006

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 27 Jun 2013, 15:40

go_Rubens wrote: What? Are you joking, Jocke?

yes............

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 27 Jun 2013, 15:42

go_Rubens wrote:
Jocke1 wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:On the 27th June 2013 (Nico Rosberg's birthday!), Australian F1 driver Mark Webber announced his retirement.

MW has no soul. Ruining Nico Rosberg's birthday like this

What? Are you joking, Jocke?

I would've thought that would've been obvious... :roll:

Post by **kevinbotz** » 27 Jun 2013, 16:10

I'm still struggling to process this. From every logical viewpoint, Webber's retirement at this stage in his career was not only expected, but tactful as well. I've no doubt that he'll see great success with Porsche over the coming years. Still, this is bittersweet news. I was never much of a Webber fan, but it is somewhat surreal to see a driver I watched as an extremely promising rookie now announce his retirement from F1, similar to how I felt when Heidfeld retired.

I suppose the old guard are beginning to pass the torch, which, for me at least, is a bit of a shame. That generation of drivers from the early-noughties, comprising of the likes of Alonso, Button, Heidfeld, Massa, Montoya, Raikkonen, and Webber, was probably my favorite group of drivers in the years I've been watching the sport.

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 27 Jun 2013, 16:15

I expected this call, and am actually happy that he announced it quite early in the year. These way he can race without any pressure in the followings, and I really hope he will take at least one more win. 8-)

As I ran through the posts, I found very little reference to my favourite period of Mark's career, his Jaguar-years. He was many times in a place with that pitiful excuse of a car where it wasn't supposed to be - sadly many times only to let down by the machinery. Even though he was a Minardi-driver before which makes someone be liked on merit, I rather grew to really like Mark in the years in green.

I will miss him but he made the right decision.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 27 Jun 2013, 16:21

This has got me wondering. What would Mark's stats look like if his cars from 2003-2008 didn't keep breaking down every 2 races?

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 27 Jun 2013, 18:40

Gosh, I've been following Mark's career and watched every race he's participated in since 2000.
And apart from the smooth 3000 years, the impressive Minardi year, the impressive Jaguar qualifying sessions years, his flipping of cars, his flipping of middle fingers, him always being honest about his number two status ("not bad for a number two driver" & "Seb'll get protection as usual")...
...two of my favourite things that I'll remember about MW are:

http://youtu.be/Be3-J9XtJCw

and

Q: (Kate Walker - Girl Racer) We’ve had some particularly variable weather over the last three days and we were expecting a wet qualifying session; are you expecting or afraid of a wet race or do you think it’s going to stay dry?
MS: I’m expecting, at my pit stop, that it will start raining.
NR: Local knowledge hasn’t really helped the last few days. It’s been very unusual, that’s not the normal weather here, that in the morning we have sunshine and then in the afternoon everything goes dark. It’s very strange.
MW: I just do whatever Jenson does!

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 27 Jun 2013, 18:43

People Acting like he's retiring from everything :lol:

He's going on to the WEC, you can watch him there you know

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 27 Jun 2013, 18:51

The thread title is very misleading. I know you miss him already because he's kind of a patron to this board, but guys, Webber is very much alive, he is not retiring from driving at all, just moving on to another employer who runs in a different series. And most of all, he is still running in F1 this season.

With his future plans lined out, it could well be possible he drives rather relaxed and energetic in the upcoming races, scoring better results than so far this season now that the pressure is gone. Let's wish him that.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 27 Jun 2013, 18:52

Yannick wrote:The thread title is very misleading. I know you miss him already because he's kind of a patron to this board, but guys, Webber is very much alive, he is not retiring from driving at all, just moving on to another employer who runs in a different series. And most of all, he is still running in F1 this season.

With his future plans lined out, it could well be possible he drives rather relaxed and energetic in the upcoming races, scoring better results than so far this season now that the pressure is gone. Let's wish him that.

I'll change the name then.

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 27 Jun 2013, 18:56

AdrianSutil wrote:People Acting like he's retiring from everything He's going on to the WEC, you can watch him there you know

That is very-very far from being the same.

Firstly, I don't watch endurance racing it's too long and boring for my taste. I'm more or less aware of Le Mans ( :cry:

) but that's it and that won't change for any driver. But even if we consider more hardcore motorsports-fans than myself, Formula One is still a category above all the others and Mark was part of it for quite a long time with all his successes, failures, witty comments, rivalries and so on. And that chapter is closing in half a year.

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 27 Jun 2013, 20:57

QuickYoda41 wrote:Firstly, I don't watch endurance racing it's too long and boring for my taste. I'm more or less aware of Le Mans ( ) but that's it and that won't change for any driver. But even if we consider more hardcore motorsports-fans than myself, Formula One is still a category above all the others and Mark was part of it for quite a long time with all his successes, failures, witty comments, rivalries and so on. And that chapter is closing in half a year.

this

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 27 Jun 2013, 22:08

In a week when I've already had to cope with finding out whilst overseas that the Australian PM had changed and both Nadal and Federer have lost early at Wimbledon, comes the news that Mark Webber is indeed joining Porsche, delivered to me in a Sarajevo hotel room. Has the world gone mad?

Actually, I can explain it. It's because Mark realised that my article on Vergne and our podcast had called his bluff, and since F1 Rejects had said so, he might as well come clean. :lol:

But in all seriousness, this is very hard to process right now, given that he has been THE driver for us long-suffering Aussies to support for the last 12 seasons. Ricciardo barely registers a blip on the radar. My immediate reaction is both sadness, but also relief in that perhaps next year I can watch GPs without being on tenterhooks about how Mark's going.

But a few comments/responses to some of the things you've said:
* I think almost certainly an article will be in the works, go_Rubens and tristan1117.
* I agree with FullMetalJack that like Berger he was unfortunate to be in an era of multiple greats.
* Eifelland, I take your point but I think Mark's rhetoric about his place in Red Bull was also vital for cultivating the underdog feeling that allowed him to deliver his best.
* QuickYoda41 - agree; I think Mark's 2003 for Jag is up there with 2010 as his best season ever.
* TML, I hadn't thought of that, but yes this may well impact upon the Victorian government's appetite for renegotiating with Bernie.
* Finally, James1978, I understand your sentiment. I've only got Button and Raikkonen left who are older than me. I think one of the things which makes F1 drivers heroes is not just their ability, but the fact that you admire them as a result. It's hard to admire a pimply kid who's a decade younger that you, whereas it's much easier to admire someone who's older.

Eifelland · Post by **Eifelland** » 27 Jun 2013, 22:31

eytl wrote:But a few comments/responses to some of the things you've said:
* I agree with FullMetalJack that like Berger he was unfortunate to be in an era of multiple greats.
* Eifelland, I take your point but I think Mark's rhetoric about his place in Red Bull was also vital for cultivating the underdog feeling that allowed him to deliver his best.
.

Fair points - It was noticeable that after Mark got mired down in controversy, 9 times out of 10 he'd then have a stormer for the next couple of races. I felt that on the whole, that hasn't worked for him since multi-21gate though - perhaps just a sign that it's time for him to go.

And FullMetalJack, agreed. I think if he'd joined F1 5 years earlier, we could have seen a different Webber overall. I never really took that into consideration before.

DOSBoot · Post by **DOSBoot** » 28 Jun 2013, 00:08

eytl wrote:But in all seriousness, this is very hard to process right now, given that he has been THE driver for us long-suffering Aussies to support for the last 12 seasons. Ricciardo barely registers a blip on the radar.

Could be worse. I'm still waiting for a decent American driver to come around the ranks of F1.

I still can't believe the the last one to win a race was in 1978. (1973 if you count American born.) I was hoping that Rossi was going to make it into the drivers seat this year, so it would give me a tiny fraction of hope. But Caterham went for the money that van Der Garde had. Which sent me into a fit of rage. So I'll just have to keep on playing "Waiting for Godot" until something happens. If it ever does.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 28 Jun 2013, 00:10

Honestly, the only way Rossi is going to even make a start is if he brings money. He's nowhere near fast enough to do it on his own merit.