Grand Prix Rejects

Since this concerns the whole canon, I'm going to post this problem here instead of the LMC thread: We have now multiple series where people are allowed to enter real-life drivers (F1, IndyCar, LMC), so what should we do in the case that a real-life driver has offers from different series?

pi314159 wrote:Since this concerns the whole canon, I'm going to post this problem here instead of the LMC thread: We have now multiple series where people are allowed to enter real-life drivers (F1, IndyCar, LMC), so what should we do in the case that a real-life driver has offers from different series?

I think the best way to deal with this is to have the concerned series owners discuss this and come up with an RNG between them. In the event that no consensus is reached, I'll step in myself and come up with an RNG myself. Seem reasonable?

Alright, so pi has brought this to my attention; a driver specifically related to a real-life person. Now, my memory might be a bit fuzzy on this matter, but I was under the impression that the general consensus was that generally, as long as it wasn't a relatively well-known driver, it was fine, but I appreciate how this might set a bad precedent for the future. So, I was wondering what anyone else might have to say on the matter, before we ask roblomas to do anything.

Salamander wrote:Alright, so pi has brought this to my attention; a driver specifically related to a real-life person. Now, my memory might be a bit fuzzy on this matter, but I was under the impression that the general consensus was that generally, as long as it wasn't a relatively well-known driver, it was fine, but I appreciate how this might set a bad precedent for the future. So, I was wondering what anyone else might have to say on the matter, before we ask roblomas to do anything.

I am in no position to judge, considering a precedent has already been set. But my character was created in the very early days (in just the second season of F1RWRS).

Though the likelihood of the pertinent real person discovering the fictional relation in question is certainly improbably low, the consequences that might ensue should said person or any of his representatives find the aforementioned fictional driver, especially as said person is still alive, would be serious enough that it would offset whatever few, marginal degrees of additional creativity the canon would derive from establishing a fictional character relative to a living person in reality.

Thus, I'd recommend a categorical proscription on all drivers with a nominal relation to a real and presently living person, with relations to real and deceased persons either strongly discouraged or proscribed as well. With regard to the fictional driver in question, I'd recommend that either the DEC holder disestablishes the relation in question, or that said driver is retroactively eliminated from the canon.

Sometimes, the relation between a fictional driver and a real life person is a weird set of circumstances. For example, the person that i got the name Lamberigts from (one of my friends), now gets married to a girl named Dorien. At the moment i created Dorien Lamberigts, they were not in a relationship yet and i didn't know that girl. (it got the name from another girl i know).
The likelihood of fictional drivers actually existing is quite big, as being proven by my driver Friedl Källström, whose name is actually a pun on Fidel Castro, but it turned out there is an actual person with that name.

But yeah, in case things are done intentionally, it shouldn't be allowed.

Well, my post here (which pre-dates this conversation by three days!) should be a step in the right direction. And as for retconning, it will be difficult, given the size of her presence on here. But she could always be renamed Phillippa if need be and if possible? Subtle, and keeps the contraction of the name the same...

And this has once been previously discussed, but as my character is retiring anyway under my own unpressured volition, I won't argue this much further.

We're not talking about Pippa Mann. That's not a problem.

Salamander wrote:We're not talking about Pippa Mann. That's not a problem.

OK then. So she's not like a precedent to this or anything than?

If so, pheew.

To be clear; we are talking specifically about directly stating a fictional driver is directly the relation of a real-life individual, therefore implicating them as being 'family', which some people may not take kindly to.

For example, if it were to be stated directly that Saeed and Turki Al Faisal were related to the Faisal family of Saudi Arabia, that would implicate them as being direct royalty of the real-life royal family of Saudi Arabia. They might not like that particularly. But, no such statement is made, so those two are fine in that regard. They're just two blokes who happen to have the surname "Al Faisal", which isn't uncommon in the part of the world they're 'from'.

Or as another example, in my case, the Voeckler family. The most famous 'Voeckler' in real-life is Thomas Voeckler, professional cyclist. However, I do not maintain any suggestion that the two are related to each other (but I will admit he was inspiration for the name). They are seperate, as it would be unfair to drag unwilling real-life persons into it.

Thanks for properly elaborating on my point Biscione - I really need to get into the habit of doing that myself...

Regardless, this matter has been open for a couple days now, and considering everything, I think it would be best if roblomas simply agreed to remove anything saying that Mikhail Karimov and Islam Karimov are related. I think the name itself should be fine - it seems perfectly reasonable to use Karimov as a surname for an Uzbekistani driver given that, for people far removed from that region of the world, it is the easiest name to associate with that country.

Aha, I see. So I am not claiming my Pippa Mann is THE Pippa Mann, she just happens to be someone who coincidentally shares the same name. I now understand why it seems to be OK.

dr-baker wrote:Aha, I see. So I am not claiming my Pippa Mann is THE Pippa Mann, she just happens to be someone who coincidentally shares the same name. I now understand why it seems to be OK.

It's confusing for new members, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with it, as you've explained it almost as often as you expressed your love for Susie Wolff

This wrote:

dr-baker wrote:Aha, I see. So I am not claiming my Pippa Mann is THE Pippa Mann, she just happens to be someone who coincidentally shares the same name. I now understand why it seems to be OK.

It's confusing for new members, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with it, as you've explained it almost as often as you expressed your love for Susie Wolff

...and/or Claire Williams.

Now that the forum has an active PM system, membership lists can be created for those participating in certain series. Sometimes series managers need to send private messages to all participants at once - this new system allows them to.

On request, a mailing list can be created for any series. Please include the name of the mailing list (for example, "Series X Teams" or "Series X Engines") and a list of usernames that should be included in this list.

Biscione wrote:Now that the forum has an active PM system, membership lists can be created for those participating in certain series. Sometimes series managers need to send private messages to all participants at once - this new system allows them to.

On request, a mailing list can be created for any series. Please include the name of the mailing list (for example, "Series X Teams" or "Series X Engines") and a list of usernames that should be included in this list.

Your "Administrator" thing is really shiny.

I have a couple of canon-related questions:

1) Where does the Life GP Series stand in the canon?
2) Is the F1 Rejects Super Touring Cup considered canon?

Kudos to anyone who can work out why I'm asking these two particular questions

Warren Hughes wrote:I have a couple of canon-related questions:

1) Where does the Life GP Series stand in the canon?
2) Is the F1 Rejects Super Touring Cup considered canon?

Kudos to anyone who can work out why I'm asking these two particular questions

Both are very much canon. Life GP took place from 1991-1993 but has been discontinued - it's place has largely been succeeded by Rejects-1, though it is not enjoying the level of popularity Life GP commanded in its '91-'92 heyday.

To clarify - I mean the defunct(?) F1RSTC not ARST...

Warren Hughes wrote:To clarify - I mean the defunct(?) F1RSTC not ARST...

I know you meant F1RSTC. And yes, it is defunct now. Ran a couple races in the 2016-17 season but I don't think WaffleCat has the time for it anymore.

Fair enough, cheers for your answer.

Folks, I haven't been privvy to whatever has been mentioned in the chat, and with nothing posted here I wanted to clear some things up.

We're waiting for the 2018 season to get going because the F3RWRS and F2RWRS seasons have not yet been completed (at least not to my knowledge).

I know the plan for F3RWRS is to turn it into Formula 3 and realign it on the F1 side of the canon, with AR2.0 taking it's place for the ARWS side.

I don't know about F2RWRS though. I was assuming this would follow the same pattern as F3RWRS and become "Formula 2"? Or is that now off the table? We obviously have some issues around ownership and management of the different championships.

I wanted to step up to the plate and possibly look at running a WEC-style championship limited only to prototypes in the vein of the old World Sportscar Championship as Pi isn't able to do the Le Mans Cup (if anyone missed the post I made in the 2018 silly season thread). But that is a little way down the line at present. I need to firm up more details first.

I guess my point was, it seems to me that some of the championships are slipping away from us a little bit and we're loosing the structure of what was built up over the past few seasons. If we could have some clarity about what the plans are that would (for me at least, I can't speak for everyone else) offer some reassurance about where things are heading.

AndreaModa wrote:Folks, I haven't been privvy to whatever has been mentioned in the chat, and with nothing posted here I wanted to clear some things up.

We're waiting for the 2018 season to get going because the F3RWRS and F2RWRS seasons have not yet been completed (at least not to my knowledge).

I know the plan for F3RWRS is to turn it into Formula 3 and realign it on the F1 side of the canon, with AR2.0 taking it's place for the ARWS side.

I don't know about F2RWRS though. I was assuming this would follow the same pattern as F3RWRS and become "Formula 2"? Or is that now off the table? We obviously have some issues around ownership and management of the different championships.

I wanted to step up to the plate and possibly look at running a WEC-style championship limited only to prototypes in the vein of the old World Sportscar Championship as Pi isn't able to do the Le Mans Cup (if anyone missed the post I made in the 2018 silly season thread). But that is a little way down the line at present. I need to firm up more details first.

I guess my point was, it seems to me that some of the championships are slipping away from us a little bit and we're loosing the structure of what was built up over the past few seasons. If we could have some clarity about what the plans are that would (for me at least, I can't speak for everyone else) offer some reassurance about where things are heading.

Pasta had agreed a long time ago to morph F2RWRS into FIA F2. That's done already. But he hasn't finished the season yet. It being May, that means exam season, and that would probably explain his recent absence (which has been notable).

We don't really have clarity or security. If people decide to stop running series, then that's it, we don't have anything anymore. F3 ground to a halt because TMLW just didn't want to continue with it any longer. F2's hiatus is just temporary I think, as alluded to earlier. AR 2.0 was apparently on the verge of going down the toilet because Ataxia wasn't sure he wanted to continue any longer either. I dare not start my own series yet while I still have this joke of a computer, I still need to get a new rig to get the thing going (my hardware is so old it's no longer running at a decent rate, I can barely run any races with more than 15 cars at once). GTRWC...who knows, that situation is very unclear.

If GTRWC gets going again then a prototypes-only series sounds just fine. I was looking forward to running NISMO.

Just to clarify, I'm not gonna quit running AR2.0. I considered dropping it; when I thought about that I wasn't in the best of moods (you don't wanna hear about that) and so my thinking wasn't so clear. I'm not letting you guys get rid of me yet

Would existing F2RWRS teams be able to transfer to the proposed new FIA F2 series?

RonDenisDeletraz wrote:Would existing F2RWRS teams be able to transfer to the proposed new FIA F2 series?

It will be automatic. Also you are free to swap entries with 3.5 teams. So for example, RTS has surrendered its 3.5 team to get an F2 team, with Simpson Motorsports heading in the other direction.

So, you have an F2 entry...but now I think about it, you also have a 3.5 entry. So there is no problem. I'm 99% certain existing teams will have their teams roll-over. Maybe you should consider a "one or the other" approach.

You want a prototype series? Join CWS.

Miguel98 wrote:You want a prototype series? Join CWS.

The SP300R is a production car, not a prototype.

Apologies for digging up an old thread but Salamander's list is the most comprehensive I can find of which championships are canon.

So, in the middle of putting some information on Cave Johnson's page on the wiki, I see he was a competitor in the short-lived 1998 season of the RTCC, which, according to Salamander's list, is canon.

On closer inspection however, there's a whole bunch of driver clashes with that particular season of the RTCC. Thomas De Bock was entered and would have been 12, Aurelien Moll would have been 10, Douglas Mann 13 and Ben Fleet 14. Cave Johnson doesn't have a DOB yet but if he did, I would put it roughly in the late 1980s, in line with his activity in the RoLFS and F2RWRS. This would put him at too young an age for the 1998 season also.

In addition, you have Team Phoenix on the entry list, established by Phoenix McAllister who in 1998 would have been 21 and only established his team after leaving F1 and entering F1RWRS.

So, my proposal is to remove the 1998 season of RTCC from the canon, despite it's neat backstory for why it was cancelled. As barely anything was run, it doesn't affect any careers and takes away another scenario when drivers and teams were entered before the wider canon structure was considered. It can be deleted and RTCC can exist straight from 2015 onwards. Thoughts?