F1RWRS 2016 Rules Discussion (READ THIS TEAM OWNERS)

[Aerond]

This thread is aimed at all the team and driver owners, and future team owners in F1RWRS. I've wanted to separate this from the F1RTA thread to have a clearer picture of the future of F1RWRS and all the upcoming changes for the 2016 season. I also want to throw in more proposals.
First of all, some of you may asking why so many changes all at once; Well, it's becoming clear that, although we've closed substantially the gap in terms of speed between the top and the backmarkers, there's still loads to do and the system is not entirely working as intended when the new rules were introduced for the 2013 season. We've reached a point where I think we need to revamp the system substantially and the best way to do all this is introducing all changes at once, so if there're any loopholes, we're able to tackle them with a solid ruling background and not with a few significant changes upcoming which may hold the decision to close said loophole till the new set of rules is introduced. I'm obviously always open to listen to new ideas and introduce more things for the future, and will keep my mind open in the future as usual, but first we need to introduce like a v2.0 of the system and build from there if we want to have solid and varied competition.

Before talking about the rule changes, I also want to announce that DGNgineering will be closing at the end of the present season. There's a reason to this; when I started running the series in 2013, there were enough entries to introduce just another team, but now there's people waiting it doesn't make much sense to keep holding an entry and it'll help me focus in running the series better and without conflicts (although all you know that most of the changes introduced have been aimed at increasing competition rather than taking advantage of it). DGNgineering prize credits will be forfeited and not distributed; and the user getting the entry will have to start the team from scratch. As for the drivers, I'll keep on running them and the new driver upgrading system I'm going to propose (thanks to Klon) will mean that Mark Dagnall doesn't have any significant advantage.

As for the future changes, I'm first going to sum up the already approved changes; there's major changes to the proposed tyre system so I'll get on with it later;

New chassis system: Teams will build their own chassis from next season, but they don't have to get rid of the current chassis; they can do it a later year if they want to (have in count that we will have Chassis Aging so a team will have to build a new chassis at some point). Teams getting rid of their current chassis will receive their 50% as usual. As for future chassis, a team won't get anything when they get rid of their chassis, but inter-team operations regarding chassis will be allowed; so Jones Racing may build a chassis, use it for one season, and sell it to Gillet for whatever price they negotiate. Chassis sold through this method will include all of the upgrades done to that date, and will have in count aging.

As for the chassis building; you decide how much to spend and then I'll run a RNG (Random Number Generator) to set the final characteristics of your chassis, which will be known only by me and you (unless you decide to share that information), other team owners will only know the ammount of credits you used to build the chassis. The more you spend, the better the ranges for the chassis can be.

Latest proposal regarding ranges went like this;

CHASSIS DEVELOPMENT -- Note that there's now Downforce (Current Speed Rating) and Handling (Current Drivability).

Numbers go as follows: Number of credits // Max. BHP // Downforce (Affects driver speed, 5 they keep their original stats, under 5 they lose Grip, over 5 they gain grip) // Handling (Affect the regularity of your drivers, 10 it doesn´t, under 10 it affects it) // Reliability

100 -- 660-690 // 1-4 // 1-5 // 10000-16000
200 -- 670-710 // 1-4 // 1-5 // 9000-15000
300 -- 690-720 // 2-5 // 2-6 // 7000-14000
400 -- 710-750 // 3-6 // 3-7 // 5000-12000
500 -- 720-760 // 4-7 // 5-8 // 4000-11000
600 -- 730-770 // 4-8 // 6-9 // 3000-10000
700 -- 730-790 // 5-9 // 7-9 // 3000-9000
800 -- 740-800 // 6-10 // 8-10 // 2000-8000
900 -- 750-810 // 6-10 // 8-10 // 1000-7000

The fundamentals overall go as it follows; A very low investment will produce a fundamentally flawed car, although it can become a bit competitive with a bit of luck. A medium investment is a little bit a roulette, it won't produce a chassis which is a disaster, but it can become a very good car with a bit of luck. A big investment will produce enssentially a good car, but the car could still be unreliable and not make the most of very engine. A major investment (800-900) will produce a fundamentally top chassis, but it could still be unreliable, it should be enough to make the most of almost every engine available.

NEW: Team owners will be able to upgrade Downforce (1= 200 credits) and Handling (1= 100 credits)

CHASSIS AGING (Engine aging wouldn't come into place under the proposed new engine system below)

2nd Year -- -1000 reliability, -1 Handling
3rd Year -- -2000 reliability, -2 Downforce, -2 Handling
4th Year -- -4000 reliability, -2 Downforce, -2 Handling
5th Year -- -8000 reliability, -5 Downforce, -5 Handling

ROOKIE DRIVERS GRIP; Rookie drivers abbilities will be set according to charts regarding their success in lower formulas:

New drivers (to F1RWRS) stats are calculated based on their experience and success in feeder series. The more successful and experienced a driver is, the better its stats will be when said driver starts his/her F1RWRS career. From now on, starting stats will be the same for Pay Drivers and Regular Drivers, the only difference will still be that a Pay Driver will have it stats locked the same way as it happens now, and Regular Drivers can be developed. I think it's a good time to start this now that we have a few solid series (F2RWRS, F3RWRS, F1RLFS) So, stats for a new driver are calculated as it follows;

F2RWRS and F1RLFS drivers start with a base of 13800 points (for each Quali and Race), F3RWRS with 13700 and other series drivers with 13500. These numbers will be revised every year as F1RWRS drivers are developed so they aren't in massive disadvantage when they start the F1RWRS career. Now, from that base number, drivers get more grip points as it follows.

F2RWRS drivers:
RACE GRIP
+100 per Championship win
+70 per 2nd-5th Championship finish
+40 per 6th-10th Championship finish
+20 per race win
+10 per podium
+5 per points finish
QUALIFYING
+30 per pole position
+10 per first row start
+2 per race start

F3RWRS drivers
RACE GRIP
+80 per Championship Win
+50 per 2nd-5th Championship finish
+20 per 6th-10th Championship finish
+10 per feature race win
+5 per feature race podium
+5 per feature race points finish
QUALIFYING
+20 per Pole
+5 per 1st row start
+2 per race start

ROLFS drivers

Same as F3RWRS drivers

Other series -as approved by F1RWRS commission, only for drivers who haven't taken part in any of the other series-
RACE GRIP
+50 per Championship win
+20 per 2nd-5th Championship finish
+10 per Race win
+5 per Podium
QUALIFYING
+10 per Pole
+5 per 1st Row Start

* Experience is taken in count; A driver coming from F2RWRS who took part in F3RWRS will have its results in both series taken in count

* For those drivers who have tested but not debuted at a F1RWRS GP, stats will be updated only 1st January every year. E.G. Terry Hawkin stats would be updated 1st January 2016 regardless of his 2015 results in F2RWRS. If he debuts in F1RWRS this season, his stats will be those as of 1st January 2015. If he races in 2016 after having raced in F1RWRS in 2015, his stats will still be the 2015 stats, so once a driver debuts (in a race weekend, tests are not taken into account), those will be the stats for that driver.

* Pay drivers will have a penalty of 100-300 Grip points (RNG decided) and have their stats locked.

TYRE SYSTEM

I have to work out the numbers a bit, but talking to Wizzie he came with a great idea that I have put into the upcoming tyre system. I have yet to work the final numbers but it goes as it follows. Tyre manufacturers won't be controlled by the commission, but instead every Tyre Manufacturer will be under control from one user, Team Owners can't be tyre manufacturers but instead we will seek for other users to do this job, starting for those in the waiting list; the aim is to get more user involvement, specially for those who aren't running a team; we'll have 5 tyre manufacturers who will take control and given a fixed number of credits to set up a tyre being able to invest in: Dry Qualifying Grip, Dry Race Grip, Wet Qualifying Grip, Wet Race Grip, and Handling (this last factor affects the random grip of the drivers), they can also set up the price of those tyres up to a maximum of 200 cr/season. Now, with the credits they get from their contracts, they can develop the tyres through the season (free of cost for the teams), they will be able to introduce new specifications every fourth race. Remaining credits at the end of the season will be forfeited and will start again. Now, a team owner can sign a multi year deal at the beggining of the 2016 season (or any season afterwards), and will get their tyres with a 50% discount from the 2nd season (must pay full price when they sign the contract); now, the team owners must honour their contracts and they can find that next season characteristics may be different from what they want, that's how the game works. The commission will also offer an extra tyre for free, but which won't see any development through the season and with less appealing characteristics than the others, so a team isn't forced to spend credits in that area. Commission introduced tyres won't be available in multi-year deals. Commission can also penalyse a tyre manufacturer if they're investing too much in one area, regularly with reliability or a reduction of grip in another. Last, but not least, if a tyre manufacturer don't get any contracts it will be given extra credits for development the following season.
In any case, tyres won't have a very significant overall input and their benefits should be relatively small.

And now, let's get on with the two other big changes; The engine system and the drivers upgrading system.

ENGINE SYSTEM

I also feel a huge renovation of the engine system should be put in place to make sure opportunities arise for teams all along the grid and we get rid of the current tendency of a team perpetuating with the same engine forever or until a better one arises, so I've thought about the whole engine system; Flaschenpost's system wasn't also too satisfactory, so I've come up with this idea which I've already introduced to two other users with good feedback.

* There will be 10 engine manufacturers, each of them offering 1 engine.

* There will be a limit of 4 teams per manufacturer

* Engines will have a set price per season.

* Teams won't be able to upgrade their engines on demand. Instead, every manufacturer will offer up to four upgrades which can improve reliability, speed, or both for a fixed price.

* Every engine will have different upgrades. Usually, the most expensive engines will also have the most expensive upgrades, while cheaper manufacturers will usually feature cheaper upgrades. Manufacturers will usually focus in weak areas for the upgrades, so if a manufacturer lacks reliability, most of the upgrades will be reliability focused. A huge reliability upgrade can also have an adverse effect on speed and the contrary can happen, but team owners will know the upgrade plan before deciding for an engine so you can choose carefully.

* Manufacturers will also introduce new engines, specially if it has a low number or no clients, they can also come at a cheaper price. Older engines may still be available for a short period of time (one year)

* Multi year deals will also be allowed, but I have yet to decide what the discount will be for multi year deals. Also, if a manufacturer decides to retire an engine during a multi year deal contract, the client will be offered the new engine at a special price.

* Factory teams will also be allowed and I will honour all current manufacturers working as factory teams (so we'll have an Audi engine, Bmw, Ford, Gillet, Lancia, etc). Factory teams will have to sign a more expensive multi year contract in the beggining, but will receive a bigger discount for following years and faster access to upgrades. Current "factory" teams will have preference over those engines for the 2016 season.

* Manufacturers may come or go depending on number of clients, a manufacturer may even pull out of the sport if it's very successful!

NEW DRIVER UPGRADING

I didn't like Klon's original proposal because it relied too much on experience and basically meant that a new driver would never be able to beat Darren Older Jr., but I've built up on his proposal and I've come up to this solution which will allow us to get rid of the current system where a driver can become unbeatable simply by having too many credits invested in him. So drivers upgrading is abolished and instead we get this system:

* All current drivers are reset at 14000 grip points (except Pay drivers)
* For every driver we play a RNG per year they've already run in the series.
For the first three years of their career, the RNG played is based on the final position of the championship:

Top 5 or Race Winner: 0/+300
Top 10 or Podium: -50/+200
Points: -100/+100
No Points: -200/+50

Then, from 4th year on; -100/+100

As for Qualifying; We simply take the base number and add every year +2 per race started, +5 Per top 10 Start, +10 per 1st row Start.

** All upgrades made to date are lost and stats of those drivers are calculated again. However, it was suggested that teams who have already invested in drivers should be compensated, but I'd like it not to do it in the way of credits.

** Drivers stats will be made public if this proposal goes through.

OTHER MINOR PROPOSALS

NEW PRIZE SYSTEM: Prize system should be changed towards team achievements and I'm ok with that proposal. Playing a bit with the numbers I've thought of this table:

Drivers championship:

Winner: 150 cred.
2nd: 110 cr.
3rd: 90 cr.
4th: 75 cr.
5th: 60 cr.
6th: 50 cr.
7th: 40 cr.
8th: 35 cr.
9th: 30 cr.
10th: 25 cr.
11th: 20 cr.
12th: 15 cr.
13th: 10 cr.
14-15th: 5 cr.

Constructors:

Winner: 450 cr.
2nd: 350 cr.
3rd: 300 cr.
4th: 220 cr.
5th: 160 cr.
6th: 130 cr.
7th: 110 cr.
8th: 90 cr.
9th: 70 cr.
10th: 50 cr.

** Every other team scoring points outside the Top 10; 25 cr.

I also would like to revise the TV Money, dividing it more into tiers:

20th to 16th: 375 cr.
15th to 11th: 325 cr.
10th to 6th: 250 cr.
5th to 2nd: 150 cr.

NEW PAY DRIVER PROPOSAL:

* Teams will only be able to run one pay driver at a time (or can run 2 pay drivers performance-wise, but will only receive money from one)
* Pay drivers will pay more to low teams than to big teams:

20th to 16th (previous season): 40 cr./race (half if the driver doesn't qualify)
15th to 11th: 30 cr./race (half if the driver doesn't qualify)
10th to 6th: 20 cr./race (half if the driver doesn't qualify)
5th to 1st: 10 cr./race (half if the driver doesn't qualify)

** ALL OF THE PAY DRIVER CREDITS WHICH ARE NOT USED BY RACE 15 WILL BE FORFEITED. TEAMS WON'T BE ABLE TO UPGRADE CARS FOR THE LAST RACE OF THE SEASON. This is to stop the used and abused formula used by some teams to run one Pay Driver only to try and get up in the order for next season.

PRE-QUALIFYING TWEAK;

-- An extra team will be thrown into Pre-Qualifying, Top 4 teams in Pre-Qualifying will go into Qualifying proper. We'll keep the actual formula for all the other rules regarding Pre-Qualifying.

[pasta_maldonado]

The numbers seem very solid to me Aerond, and it looks like these regulations could make the series stronger than what it already is!

It will be sad to see DGNgneering leave the series unbeaten, but I can understand why you have decided to pull them out. This is the first member on the waiting list I believe.

As for the tyre manufacturers, I think that is a very good idea that will add another dimension to the series and to the racing. Please can I manage Continental?

[Nuppiz]

The numbers seem very solid to me Aerond, and it looks like these regulations could make the series stronger than what it already is!

It will be sad to see DGNgneering leave the series unbeaten, but I can understand why you have decided to pull them out. This is the first member on the waiting list I believe.

As for the tyre manufacturers, I think that is a very good idea that will add another dimension to the series and to the racing. Please can I manage Continental?

The waiting list is as follows:
1. BlindCaveSalamander
2. pasta_maldonado
3. andrew
4. Nuppiz
5. Jeroen Krautmeir
6. WaffleCat
7. BaconLettuceNinja

As for the proposed rules, they look good to me. It's nice that teams aren't too much punished if they want/have to use the same chassis for a second year, while also making it so that it should be only used as an emergency measure. Drivers' skills being determined purely by the results, instead of how much money they are spent on, also sounds fair and reasonable. Oh, and I guess you meant "Same as F2RWRS drivers" in the RoLFS section of the driver development?

While it might be a bit too early for that, I'd like to express my interest in managing GoodYear.

[Aerond]

Oh, and I guess you meant "Same as F2RWRS drivers" in the RoLFS section of the driver development?

While it might be a bit too early for that, I'd like to express my interest in managing GoodYear.

Sorry, I meant "F3RWRS drivers"

[Ataxia]

That all seems pretty good to me. I'm sure that would shake everything up nicely.

If you're after waiting list members to control tyres, I'll manage Yokohama or something...

[the Masked Lapwing]

Right, this is good. Not because the regulation are good, but because I can easily point out why I think most of them are stupid.

New chassis system: Teams will build their own chassis from next season, but they don't have to get rid of the current chassis; they can do it a later year if they want to (have in count that we will have Chassis Aging so a team will have to build a new chassis at some point). Teams getting rid of their current chassis will receive their 50% as usual. As for future chassis, a team won't get anything when they get rid of their chassis, but inter-team operations regarding chassis will be allowed; so Jones Racing may build a chassis, use it for one season, and sell it to Gillet for whatever price they negotiate. Chassis sold through this method will include all of the upgrades done to that date, and will have in count aging.

I still don't see why the current system is so bad or what this does to improve the competitiveness of the backmarkers. They still have the fundamental problem of no money and thus no good car, but now have a chance of producing one that is even worse.

* For those drivers who have tested but not debuted at a F1RWRS GP, stats will be updated only 1st January every year. E.G. Terry Hawkin stats would be updated 1st January 2016 regardless of his 2015 results in F2RWRS. If he debuts in F1RWRS this season, his stats will be those as of 1st January 2015. If he races in 2016 after having raced in F1RWRS in 2015, his stats will still be the 2015 stats, so once a driver debuts (in a race weekend, tests are not taken into account), those will be the stats for that driver.

So what you're saying is if AndreaModa put Hawkin in the car for the final or kostas put in Kremnicky, pretty much an entire F2 season's worth of experience isn't included?

TYRE SYSTEM

I have to work out the numbers a bit, but talking to Wizzie he came with a great idea that I have put into the upcoming tyre system. I have yet to work the final numbers but it goes as it follows. Tyre manufacturers won't be controlled by the commission, but instead every Tyre Manufacturer will be under control from one user, Team Owners can't be tyre manufacturers but instead we will seek for other users to do this job, starting for those in the waiting list; the aim is to get more user involvement, specially for those who aren't running a team; we'll have 5 tyre manufacturers who will take control and given a fixed number of credits to set up a tyre being able to invest in: Dry Qualifying Grip, Dry Race Grip, Wet Qualifying Grip, Wet Race Grip, and Handling (this last factor affects the random grip of the drivers), they can also set up the price of those tyres up to a maximum of 200 cr/season. Now, with the credits they get from their contracts, they can develop the tyres through the season (free of cost for the teams), they will be able to introduce new specifications every fourth race. Remaining credits at the end of the season will be forfeited and will start again. Now, a team owner can sign a multi year deal at the beggining of the 2016 season (or any season afterwards), and will get their tyres with a 50% discount from the 2nd season (must pay full price when they sign the contract); now, the team owners must honour their contracts and they can find that next season characteristics may be different from what they want, that's how the game works. The commission will also offer an extra tyre for free, but which won't see any development through the season and with less appealing characteristics than the others, so a team isn't forced to spend credits in that area. Commission introduced tyres won't be available in multi-year deals. Commission can also penalyse a tyre manufacturer if they're investing too much in one area, regularly with reliability or a reduction of grip in another. Last, but not least, if a tyre manufacturer don't get any contracts it will be given extra credits for development the following season.
In any case, tyres won't have a very significant overall input and their benefits should be relatively small.

If I get screwed out of Bridgestones because some muppet makes their price ridiculously high, despite the fact I've used them since 2011, I am going to kill someone. This is a completely unnessecary change, and while it is good to get other members involved, there is no reason why tyres need to be developed with an already big enough gap in performance (with 3 performance variables being driver, chassis and engine as opposed to the RoLFS as it is one of only two).

...and we get rid of the current tendency of a team perpetuating with the same engine forever or until a better one arises,

Devemopment marches on...
I know Wizzie was involved, but I'd like to know who the other member was.

* Factory teams will also be allowed and I will honour all current manufacturers working as factory teams (so we'll have an Audi engine, Bmw, Ford, Gillet, Lancia, etc). Factory teams will have to sign a more expensive multi year contract in the beggining, but will receive a bigger discount for following years and faster access to upgrades. Current "factory" teams will have preference over those engines for the 2016 season.

Since did works teams have more expensive deals to run their own bathplugging engines?

* Manufacturers may come or go depending on number of clients, a manufacturer may even pull out of the sport if it's very successful!

As long as the manufacturer decides when, not you.

* All current drivers are reset at 14000 grip points (except Pay drivers)

In which case I demand to be reimbursed for every single credit I spent on Davies, Zimmer, Watkinson and Whitechpapel while they were all at HRT. And will immediately go after signing Ben Fleet and David Neuberg.

* For every driver we play a RNG per year they've already run in the series.
For the first three years of their career, the RNG played is based on the final position of the championship:

Top 5 or Race Winner: 0/+300
Top 10 or Podium: -50/+200
Points: -100/+100
No Points: -200/+50

So a driver scored consistent podiums and can turn out worse? Right. Also brings in basic problem of drivers who spent their early years driving for teams who could not get put pre-qualfying, or couldn't score on a regular basis.

The new championship awards structure I'm fine with, and the new pay driver regulations to an extent (wiping out all money they earn makes running a pay driver pointless, because it takes too long to make enough money to upgrade the current car).

[takagi_for_the_win]

Well if you're looking for users to manage tyre suppliers, I'll manage Dunlop if thats alright

[Aerond]

Right, this is good. Not because the regulation are good, but because I can easily point out why I think most of them are stupid.

* For those drivers who have tested but not debuted at a F1RWRS GP, stats will be updated only 1st January every year. E.G. Terry Hawkin stats would be updated 1st January 2016 regardless of his 2015 results in F2RWRS. If he debuts in F1RWRS this season, his stats will be those as of 1st January 2015. If he races in 2016 after having raced in F1RWRS in 2015, his stats will still be the 2015 stats, so once a driver debuts (in a race weekend, tests are not taken into account), those will be the stats for that driver.

So what you're saying is if AndreaModa put Hawkin in the car for the final or kostas put in Kremnicky, pretty much an entire F2 season's worth of experience isn't included?

This point is revisable.

TYRE SYSTEM

I have to work out the numbers a bit, but talking to Wizzie he came with a great idea that I have put into the upcoming tyre system. I have yet to work the final numbers but it goes as it follows. Tyre manufacturers won't be controlled by the commission, but instead every Tyre Manufacturer will be under control from one user, Team Owners can't be tyre manufacturers but instead we will seek for other users to do this job, starting for those in the waiting list; the aim is to get more user involvement, specially for those who aren't running a team; we'll have 5 tyre manufacturers who will take control and given a fixed number of credits to set up a tyre being able to invest in: Dry Qualifying Grip, Dry Race Grip, Wet Qualifying Grip, Wet Race Grip, and Handling (this last factor affects the random grip of the drivers), they can also set up the price of those tyres up to a maximum of 200 cr/season. Now, with the credits they get from their contracts, they can develop the tyres through the season (free of cost for the teams), they will be able to introduce new specifications every fourth race. Remaining credits at the end of the season will be forfeited and will start again. Now, a team owner can sign a multi year deal at the beggining of the 2016 season (or any season afterwards), and will get their tyres with a 50% discount from the 2nd season (must pay full price when they sign the contract); now, the team owners must honour their contracts and they can find that next season characteristics may be different from what they want, that's how the game works. The commission will also offer an extra tyre for free, but which won't see any development through the season and with less appealing characteristics than the others, so a team isn't forced to spend credits in that area. Commission introduced tyres won't be available in multi-year deals. Commission can also penalyse a tyre manufacturer if they're investing too much in one area, regularly with reliability or a reduction of grip in another. Last, but not least, if a tyre manufacturer don't get any contracts it will be given extra credits for development the following season.
In any case, tyres won't have a very significant overall input and their benefits should be relatively small.

If I get screwed out of Bridgestones because some muppet makes their price ridiculously high, despite the fact I've used them since 2011, I am going to kill someone. This is a completely unnessecary change, and while it is good to get other members involved, there is no reason why tyres need to be developed with an already big enough gap in performance (with 3 performance variables being driver, chassis and engine as opposed to the RoLFS as it is one of only two).

First, there's a price limit, second, tyres will have a limited effect overall; third, as I said, I'm going to control this there's not an all-winning tyre. Fourth, if you sign a multi-year deal with Bridgestone, tyres the following years would come a half price. So there wouldn't be too much financial stress. Fifth, if a tyre manufacturer is willing to have many clients, I doubt the way is by putting those at 200 cr/year.

* Factory teams will also be allowed and I will honour all current manufacturers working as factory teams (so we'll have an Audi engine, Bmw, Ford, Gillet, Lancia, etc). Factory teams will have to sign a more expensive multi year contract in the beggining, but will receive a bigger discount for following years and faster access to upgrades. Current "factory" teams will have preference over those engines for the 2016 season.

Since did works teams have more expensive deals to run their own bathplugging engines?

This is a way not to give a very big advantage to works teams. Works teams will have to pay for their engines, as will have to every team, and in the long term will pay less for their engines, but it'll be more expensive to set up a contract with the factory so there's an equalising point over client teams.

* All current drivers are reset at 14000 grip points (except Pay drivers)

In which case I demand to be reimbursed for every single credit I spent on Davies, Zimmer, Watkinson and Whitechpapel while they were all at HRT. And will immediately go after signing Ben Fleet and David Neuberg.

As I said, I'm willing to establish a compensation there, but I'd prefer it not to be in the form of credits.

* For every driver we play a RNG per year they've already run in the series.
For the first three years of their career, the RNG played is based on the final position of the championship:

Top 5 or Race Winner: 0/+300
Top 10 or Podium: -50/+200
Points: -100/+100
No Points: -200/+50

So a driver scored consistent podiums and can turn out worse? Right. Also brings in basic problem of drivers who spent their early years driving for teams who could not get put pre-qualfying, or couldn't score on a regular basis.

Right, this is the point I'm less convinced of. What I don't want is a very successful driver pulling a very significant and ever increasing advantage, although with the ranges I set this will hardly be the case as it would take lots of luck for a driver who's been consistently finishing in Top 5 to become virtually unbeatable. So I guess the "3 year rule" could be taken away. Anyway, if a Top 10 driver doesn't improve, it would be by a very low margin as it happens as well in real racing.

The new championship awards structure I'm fine with, and the new pay driver regulations to an extent (wiping out all money they earn makes running a pay driver pointless, because it takes too long to make enough money to upgrade the current car).

I'm willing to hear on improvements over this idea; although I don't want a team running a pay driver for the shake of having 1000 credits at the beggining of the following season.

[the Masked Lapwing]

* Factory teams will also be allowed and I will honour all current manufacturers working as factory teams (so we'll have an Audi engine, Bmw, Ford, Gillet, Lancia, etc). Factory teams will have to sign a more expensive multi year contract in the beggining, but will receive a bigger discount for following years and faster access to upgrades. Current "factory" teams will have preference over those engines for the 2016 season.

Since did works teams have more expensive deals to run their own bathplugging engines?

This is a way not to give a very big advantage to works teams. Works teams will have to pay for their engines, as will have to every team, and in the long term will pay less for their engines, but it'll be more expensive to set up a contract with the factory so there's an equalising point over client teams.

But HRT build their own engines. So does Gillet. I know, I sound like I'm whinging like Ferrari here, but works teams shouldn't have to pay for a contract with themselves. I would be fine if development credits came out of out team budget, however.
(And I don't count Jones, MRT etc. as works teams, just teams with privateer deals)

The new championship awards structure I'm fine with, and the new pay driver regulations to an extent (wiping out all money they earn makes running a pay driver pointless, because it takes too long to make enough money to upgrade the current car).

I'm willing to hear on improvements over this idea; although I don't want a team running a pay driver for the shake of having 1000 credits at the beggining of the following season.

I like the fact that only one pay driver actually pays, which if combined with the pay driver cap, should see at most half of a team's budget coming from pay drivers (and only for the worse teams, which is something I like).

[TomWazzleshaw]

I'll have to digest all of this after school today (Bloody English assessment means I can't do any higher-order thinking for just about anything right now) but so far, most of it seems solid.

And Takagi, the plan was to get users on the waiting list to manage the tyre manufacturers which means you'll have to join the back of the queue unless the overlord says otherwise

[Aerond]

I like the fact that only one pay driver actually pays, which if combined with the pay driver cap, should see at most half of a team's budget coming from pay drivers (and only for the worse teams, which is something I like).

Anoher way of doing what I'm seeking is that a team must use at least half of the credits coming from Pay Drivers, and the credits going over that half are forfeited. So the maximum a team could save from Pay Drivers into next season would be 40x16/2=320 credits (and that's highly unlikely since it would mean a backmarker team being able to qualify the car for every race with the pay driver qualifying for every race as well). So if Simpson runs a Pay Driver and the Pay driver pays a grand total of 400 credits; at least 200 must be used that season. This way the proposal wouldn't be too radical (However, I prefer to wait and see what other members think)

[Aerond]

I'll have to digest all of this after school today (Bloody English assessment means I can't do any higher-order thinking for just about anything right now) but so far, most of it seems solid.

And Takagi, the plan was to get users on the waiting list to manage the tyre manufacturers which means you'll have to join the back of the queue unless the overlord says otherwise

We'll give preference to those on the waiting list, but tyre manufacturers won't be sorted until the end of this season anyway.

[pasta_maldonado]

I like the fact that only one pay driver actually pays, which if combined with the pay driver cap, should see at most half of a team's budget coming from pay drivers (and only for the worse teams, which is something I like).

Anoher way of doing what I'm seeking is that a team must use at least half of the credits coming from Pay Drivers, and the credits going over that half are forfeited. So the maximum a team could save from Pay Drivers into next season would be 40x16/2=320 credits (and that's highly unlikely since it would mean a backmarker team being able to qualify the car for every race with the pay driver qualifying for every race as well). So if Simpson runs a Pay Driver and the Pay driver pays a grand total of 400 credits; at least 200 must be used that season. This way the proposal wouldn't be too radical (However, I prefer to wait and see what other members think)

Can a team swap what driver pays credits during the course of a season?

[Aerospeed]

Once again, you never fail to impress me Aerond!

[AndreaModa]

Pretty much all of this looks good to me, the tyre idea is a fantastic way to get more involvement, and develop a bit of a tyre war. Kudos to those who came up with that. The prize structures look good, as do the pay driver and pre-qualifying rules.

What I'm struggling to understand is why teams don't get compensated for selling a chassis at the end of the year. With ageing now involved, which is a good thing I believe, it means teams are going to want to ditch their chassis at least every two years. Taking into account the sort of credits Jones won last year, which worked out at about 400 if I remember right, after selling my engine I could afford a new, better engine, and have a few credits left over for upgrades. This new way, I'll have to ditch my chassis because it'll be rubbish the following year, and not be able to get a better one because I won't have anything like enough credits. Assuming Jones won both titles, that would still only give me 750 credits, plus a bit here and there for race wins, etc. Because I have the factory Ford deal in place, that's going to make my engines quite pricey, let's assume 400 credits for argument sake, leaving me with around 400-500 credits to buy a chassis, and a tyre deal! I don't think the maths is right Aerond, either the prizes need to be a lot higher or prices need to come down. With the 2015 prize structure and no selling of engines or chassis I can't see how anyone is going to top 1000 credits, even with pay drivers.

Apart from this I like what I see, even if it makes it a bit more confusing at first.

[Aerond]

I like the fact that only one pay driver actually pays, which if combined with the pay driver cap, should see at most half of a team's budget coming from pay drivers (and only for the worse teams, which is something I like).

Anoher way of doing what I'm seeking is that a team must use at least half of the credits coming from Pay Drivers, and the credits going over that half are forfeited. So the maximum a team could save from Pay Drivers into next season would be 40x16/2=320 credits (and that's highly unlikely since it would mean a backmarker team being able to qualify the car for every race with the pay driver qualifying for every race as well). So if Simpson runs a Pay Driver and the Pay driver pays a grand total of 400 credits; at least 200 must be used that season. This way the proposal wouldn't be too radical (However, I prefer to wait and see what other members think)

Can a team swap what driver pays credits during the course of a season?

Yes. It should be.

[the Masked Lapwing]

I like the fact that only one pay driver actually pays, which if combined with the pay driver cap, should see at most half of a team's budget coming from pay drivers (and only for the worse teams, which is something I like).

Anoher way of doing what I'm seeking is that a team must use at least half of the credits coming from Pay Drivers, and the credits going over that half are forfeited. So the maximum a team could save from Pay Drivers into next season would be 40x16/2=320 credits (and that's highly unlikely since it would mean a backmarker team being able to qualify the car for every race with the pay driver qualifying for every race as well). So if Simpson runs a Pay Driver and the Pay driver pays a grand total of 400 credits; at least 200 must be used that season. This way the proposal wouldn't be too radical (However, I prefer to wait and see what other members think)

Actually, that's a good way of doing it. It dissuades the front running teams from hiring pay drivers because they won't get any real development from it, but could still be useful for backmarkers.

[Aerond]

Pretty much all of this looks good to me, the tyre idea is a fantastic way to get more involvement, and develop a bit of a tyre war. Kudos to those who came up with that. The prize structures look good, as do the pay driver and pre-qualifying rules.

What I'm struggling to understand is why teams don't get compensated for selling a chassis at the end of the year. With ageing now involved, which is a good thing I believe, it means teams are going to want to ditch their chassis at least every two years. Taking into account the sort of credits Jones won last year, which worked out at about 400 if I remember right, after selling my engine I could afford a new, better engine, and have a few credits left over for upgrades. This new way, I'll have to ditch my chassis because it'll be rubbish the following year, and not be able to get a better one because I won't have anything like enough credits. Assuming Jones won both titles, that would still only give me 750 credits, plus a bit here and there for race wins, etc. Because I have the factory Ford deal in place, that's going to make my engines quite pricey, let's assume 400 credits for argument sake, leaving me with around 400-500 credits to buy a chassis, and a tyre deal! I don't think the maths is right Aerond, either the prizes need to be a lot higher or prices need to come down. With the 2015 prize structure and no selling of engines or chassis I can't see how anyone is going to top 1000 credits, even with pay drivers.

Apart from this I like what I see, even if it makes it a bit more confusing at first.

Yes, I'm totally conscious about this issue even before I wrote that, but I wanted somebody to bring in the case before starting to discuss this. Obviously teams would get less financial stress from not having to update drivers, that's obvious, but yes, with the proposal at its current state hardly any team would be able to afford a 900 cr. chassis ever. We could bring back the proposal to have a fixed chassis disposal rate, to me it sounds perfectly reasonable, but again, I don't want a team to command the field with an all-winning chassis-engine combination, that's a bit what I'm afraid of.

Something like this would be fine with me;
Selling chassis after 1st year; 50% (not including upgrades)
2nd year; 40%
3rd year; 30%
4th year onwards; 20%

[tristan1117]

I like most of the new regulations, especially the feeder category bonus plan (which helps me immensely) but I think tyres should be considerably cheaper (perhaps a max of 100 credits per season) in order to help the backmarkers pay for what is actually useful (car development). The other problem is that every team will be broke by the third year of this system. Because we have all liberally spent credits in the last three seasons on items that are now obsolete, everyone's cash resources will be stretched to the limit. As AndreaModa pointed out, the midfield teams will have serious trouble raising funds as they are ineligible for the PreQ Cup (which is unchanged, as far as I can tell) and can't get enough funds from prize money. Car development will eventually slow and by Year 3, Jones, Aeroracing, Gillet, Boxtel, Kamaha, Foxdale and HRT might be stretched very thinly (ironically, this is the exact same position that real midpack F1 teams now find themselves in, which explains the influx of pay drivers into the sport, bar the PreQ rewards system). On the bright side, the Tropicos and Kingfishers of the world will finally have a chance of upward mobility next season.

(Sidenote: Somehow, I think my ridiculous plot to make ARC a competitive team by "tanking" the season and picking up a good chassis through blind luck is one of the many reasons for the rule changes. If these pass through, it would be more difficult to manipulate the system like I did so I suppose I dug my own grave on this one...)

[AdrianSutil]

I'm finding it all a bit confusing personally, but only until I sit down and start to do some serious thinking about what I want to do. But, in simple terms, Kingfisher will not be able to spend money on driver upgrades, will need to spend at least 50% of Neuberg's income each year, buy some tyres, spend a little on the engine to keep it competitive and save for a decent chassis next year. Is that right?

[DemocalypseNow]

This is interesting.

Going to have to fire up the money counting machine, gotta make sure whoever the new Pirelli boss is gives us what we want. I would suggest taking our money or we are going to make sure you'll be sleeping with the fishes.

[SuperAguri]

New chassis system: Teams will build their own chassis from next season,

Sounds good so far, but the getting rid of an old chassis by either selling it or scrapping it for no money seems a bit mean, especially if you are a low end team that has a chassis that no one wants and although you could spend money improving the handling and downforce, there does not seem to be any way to improve reliability, which if you do have a car that feels reliable as a 2013 Foxdale is just going to depress you.

i would like to see a couple of one team only customer chassis, these could have completely random stats on max bhp, downforce, handling and reliability but be cheap (100 to 500 credits). Could help the low end teams and would mean we could still have March, Reynard, Dallara, Simtek and Fondmetal in the series.

CHASSIS DEVELOPMENT -- Note that there's now Downforce (Current Speed Rating) and Handling (Current Drivability).
Numbers go as follows: Number of credits // Max. BHP // Downforce (Affects driver speed, 5 they keep their original stats, under 5 they lose Grip, over 5 they gain grip) // Handling (Affect the regularity of your drivers, 10 it doesn´t, under 10 it affects it) // Reliability

Sounds good, but I would like to propose that we can focus an area to put most developement into. A simple way for this to work would be to add or subtract the nearest unit of 2. For example if we developed the 500 credit chassis.

500 -- 720-760 // 4-7 // 5-8 // 4000-11000

But we wanted to make the car more reliable then maybe the random stats could be from

500 -- 720-760 // 4-7 // 5-8 // 4000-9000 (-2000)

If we choose Handling then maybe it could be

500 -- 720-760 // 4-7 // 7-8 (+2) // 4000-11000

If we choose max bhp then it would be +20 on both.

500 -- 740-780 (+20 on each) // 4-7 // 5-8 // 4000-11000

The fundermentals proposed are sound enough, but it would be nice to feel like a team owner and have some input into how we can improve the car, it would also mean the stats would be more random. I personally don't see it as being too hard to implement, it is a case of saying "xxx credit chassis, work on Max. BHP // Downforce // Handling // Reliability". As I seem to be saddled with a car that is fast but retires more times then Jos Verstappen, I would like to say "Kamaha are working hard to make the car more reliable..."

NEW: Team owners will be able to upgrade Downforce (1= 200 credits) and Handling (1= 100 credits)

I would like to see one for reliability, as if you do get a clunker of a car, it would be nice to spend money so it would finish more races.

CHASSIS AGING (Engine aging wouldn't come into place under the proposed new engine system below)

I am happy with this but again would like to see an ability to improve reliability.

ROOKIE DRIVERS GRIP; Rookie drivers abbilities will be set according to charts regarding their success in lower formulas:

I am going to sound like a broken record, but it shouldn't be a case that you could sit down with an excel spreadsheet and work out exactly which rookie driver is going to get the best stats. History has shown time and time again that winning championships in junior formula means bugger all, hello Jan Magnussen, how many F3000 champions really did well in F1? Compared to say F3 champions...

There should be some random element at play on the base stats. Even if it is a +/- 100 so we are not just turning the game into a excel spreadsheet game.

TYRE SYSTEM

I did suggest before (and most team owners shared the same sentiment) that our current tyre should be offered to us at a discount as a loyality reward. Something between 50% to 80% of the cost of new. Maybe with the future years being 50% of the full cost as suggested. I suggest the stock tyre be one that isn't used currently, AVON would be good.

ENGINE SYSTEM
* There will be 10 engine manufacturers, each of them offering 1 engine.

Just 10? After you have the semi works teams that won't leave many customer engines. Semi works engines take up 8ish spots. If we banned V12 and V8 engines then it wouild reduce the available engines, but I think 12 manufactures would be better and fairer.

* There will be a limit of 4 teams per manufacturer

4? 3 would be a better number. Apart from the Ford DFV and HB engines, since the 80s no one company has supplied more then 3 engines to teams.

* Factory teams will also be allowed and I will honour all current manufacturers working as factory teams (so we'll have an Audi engine, Bmw, Ford, Gillet, Lancia, etc). Factory teams will have to sign a more expensive multi year contract in the beggining, but will receive a bigger discount for following years and faster access to upgrades. Current "factory" teams will have preference over those engines for the 2016 season.

There aren't really any true works teams, most are semi works but even with just the semi works engines there will be very few customer engines. For example with Ford, they currently have 6 different engines to choose from would we still have a Ford Zetec and a Ford HB type engine or just the one?

* Manufacturers may come or go depending on number of clients, a manufacturer may even pull out of the sport if it's very successful!

Sounds good. Be funny if BMW pull out and MRT are forced to use a Judd engine.

* Engines will have a set price per season.

All engines or by manufactuer?

NEW DRIVER UPGRADING

After I read it a few times, I am happy with this. Do I read it as 14000 + some random numbers based on results from the previous seasons?

** Drivers stats will be made public if this proposal goes through.

I don't think they should be made public, maybe more in the style of "Autosport Expert Panel ranks the current drivers" so we can see who the top drivers are in a simple list rather then pure numbers. Maybe with some witty banter thrown in of, ie Alan Smith will be fast but he will add to his world of gravel collection. Johnny Moneybags will be slow, so slow that it wouldn't surprise me to see him being overtaken by a Lada but he will finish quite a few races.

OTHER MINOR PROPOSALS
NEW PAY DRIVER PROPOSAL:
* Teams will only be able to run one pay driver at a time (or can run 2 pay drivers performance-wise, but will only receive money from one)
* Pay drivers will pay more to low teams than to big teams:

To hark back to the 90s, I do think teams stuck in prequalifying should be allowed two paying pay drivers, it should give them a chance to get out of prequalifying.

The only other things I want to propose is that pay drivers should have their stats set once and then altered per year depending on performance. If they are crap then they will probably stay crap but if they show some talent then they may improve. Although still with the current point limit so they turn into a normal driver.

And that all teams must have at least one reserve driver (so in the Autosport Driver rankings list they can also be ranked).

[the Masked Lapwing]

* All current drivers are reset at 14000 grip points (except Pay drivers)

In which case I demand to be reimbursed for every single credit I spent on Davies, Zimmer, Watkinson and Whitechpapel while they were all at HRT. And will immediately go after signing Ben Fleet and David Neuberg.

As I said, I'm willing to establish a compensation there, but I'd prefer it not to be in the form of credits.

Now that I re-read it, what form would this compensation take?

[Aerond]

New chassis system: Teams will build their own chassis from next season,

Sounds good so far, but the getting rid of an old chassis by either selling it or scrapping it for no money seems a bit mean, especially if you are a low end team that has a chassis that no one wants and although you could spend money improving the handling and downforce, there does not seem to be any way to improve reliability, which if you do have a car that feels reliable as a 2013 Foxdale is just going to depress you.

i would like to see a couple of one team only customer chassis, these could have completely random stats on max bhp, downforce, handling and reliability but be cheap (100 to 500 credits). Could help the low end teams and would mean we could still have March, Reynard, Dallara, Simtek and Fondmetal in the series.

See the proposal I made to Andreamoda regarding chassis disposal, which sounds good to me as in the current state the proposal is too much financially. As for the second point, I still don't see it. Reliability upgrading will stay as it is now, but I also give the option to improve downforce and handling. But I repeat, teams will be able to improve chassis reliability as it is now.

ROOKIE DRIVERS GRIP; Rookie drivers abbilities will be set according to charts regarding their success in lower formulas:

I am going to sound like a broken record, but it shouldn't be a case that you could sit down with an excel spreadsheet and work out exactly which rookie driver is going to get the best stats. History has shown time and time again that winning championships in junior formula means bugger all, hello Jan Magnussen, how many F3000 champions really did well in F1? Compared to say F3 champions...

There should be some random element at play on the base stats. Even if it is a +/- 100 so we are not just turning the game into a excel spreadsheet game.

Well, as Random Grip Range will still be high, I'm not worried about this point. And in any case it isn't guaranteed that a junior driver will fail or have success.

TYRE SYSTEM

I did suggest before (and most team owners shared the same sentiment) that our current tyre should be offered to us at a discount as a loyality reward. Something between 50% to 80% of the cost of new. Maybe with the future years being 50% of the full cost as suggested. I suggest the stock tyre be one that isn't used currently, AVON would be good.

I've already worked that out by giving a 50% discount for multiple year deals, but I think we must start with the tyre system somewhere.

ENGINE SYSTEM
* There will be 10 engine manufacturers, each of them offering 1 engine.

Just 10? After you have the semi works teams that won't leave many customer engines. Semi works engines take up 8ish spots. If we banned V12 and V8 engines then it wouild reduce the available engines, but I think 12 manufactures would be better and fairer.

* There will be a limit of 4 teams per manufacturer

4? 3 would be a better number. Apart from the Ford DFV and HB engines, since the 80s no one company has supplied more then 3 engines to teams.

10 x 4 is 40 teams, more than enough, but 13x3 would be acceptable too.

* Factory teams will also be allowed and I will honour all current manufacturers working as factory teams (so we'll have an Audi engine, Bmw, Ford, Gillet, Lancia, etc). Factory teams will have to sign a more expensive multi year contract in the beggining, but will receive a bigger discount for following years and faster access to upgrades. Current "factory" teams will have preference over those engines for the 2016 season.

There aren't really any true works teams, most are semi works but even with just the semi works engines there will be very few customer engines. For example with Ford, they currently have 6 different engines to choose from would we still have a Ford Zetec and a Ford HB type engine or just the one?

Just one

* Engines will have a set price per season.

All engines or by manufactuer?

Every manufacturer willbe different, of course.

NEW DRIVER UPGRADING

After I read it a few times, I am happy with this. Do I read it as 14000 + some random numbers based on results from the previous seasons?

Yes

** Drivers stats will be made public if this proposal goes through.

I don't think they should be made public, maybe more in the style of "Autosport Expert Panel ranks the current drivers" so we can see who the top drivers are in a simple list rather then pure numbers. Maybe with some witty banter thrown in of, ie Alan Smith will be fast but he will add to his world of gravel collection. Johnny Moneybags will be slow, so slow that it wouldn't surprise me to see him being overtaken by a Lada but he will finish quite a few races.

I'm ok with this point

OTHER MINOR PROPOSALS
NEW PAY DRIVER PROPOSAL:
* Teams will only be able to run one pay driver at a time (or can run 2 pay drivers performance-wise, but will only receive money from one)
* Pay drivers will pay more to low teams than to big teams:

To hark back to the 90s, I do think teams stuck in prequalifying should be allowed two paying pay drivers, it should give them a chance to get out of prequalifying.

The only other things I want to propose is that pay drivers should have their stats set once and then altered per year depending on performance. If they are crap then they will probably stay crap but if they show some talent then they may improve. Although still with the current point limit so they turn into a normal driver.

We could set the standard points (+100/-100) for Pay Drivers.

[Aerond]

A sum up of the changes proposed over the rules at the top of the page;

Chassis disposal;

Apart from teams being able to sell their used chassis to others (chassis will include aging and updates), there will be a chassis disposal rate when you build a new chassis if you don't sell your chassis to another team;

After 1 year -- 50% (of the original investment, not including upgrades)
After 2 -- 40%
After 3 -- 30%
4 or more -- 20%

Driver upgrading;

The race grip will be calculated per every year depending of position, instead of the original proposal of 3 years depending of position and afterwards a fixed range.

Pay drivers; Pay drivers will vary +/-100 points every year regardless of position, this will also be calculated on top of their starting rate.

I'm also expecting someone to come with an idea or proposal over the compensation to those teams which have already invested credits into drivers.

[AndreaModa]

Those additional changes look good to me. Should help teams achieve a decent amount of credits and give people more choices.

About the compensation for drivers who've had credits invested in them, I think there are two ways of doing it to be honest.

1. Do nothing, those drivers who have had credits spent on them loose all their upgrades and we start over with no compensation.

2. Drivers who have had credits spent on them get a percentage bonus when calculating the driver stats for next year. Say 1000 credits spent gives a 5% bonus to whatever they are given?

I can't see how refunding credits that have been spent on drivers is fair, that will give some people a massive advantage over others.

[pasta_maldonado]

In my opinion too many people are going home early before the race. Now, I don't know much about GP2 or whetherthere is a limit to the amount of cars that can start a race, but here's a proposal I just thought of (it's probably going to be crap anyway so hear me out...)

7 teams in Pre-Q, of which the top 6 drivers go into qualifying proper
The 32 cars (26 automatic entries, from 6 pre-q) then fight for 30 or 28 spots on the grid
Thoughts?

[Aerond]

In my opinion too many people are going home early before the race. Now, I don't know much about GP2 or whetherthere is a limit to the amount of cars that can start a race, but here's a proposal I just thought of (it's probably going to be crap anyway so hear me out...)

7 teams in Pre-Q, of which the top 6 drivers go into qualifying proper
The 32 cars (26 automatic entries, from 6 pre-q) then fight for 30 or 28 spots on the grid
Thoughts?

This has been discussed many times before and it's not possible.

[SuperAguri]

In ye olde days, a driver from a junior formula might become a test driver for a team and sometimes would go on to do rather well, like Damon Hill for example, where as generally most F3000 champions tended to be useless once they got into F1. I would like to suggest that if a F1RWRS team hires a F2RWRS or an F3RWRS driver to be a test driver when they are still in the a junior formula that they might get some experience bonus then a driver that just goes from F1RWRS straight from F2RWRS or F3RWRS. I do know currently they do get something but it might make driver line ups more interesting with some extra brownie points.

I would still like to see my idea of being able to focus on a part of the car so we have a better chance of getting a better value on either max BHIP, handling, downforce and reliability so it feels like we are building a chassis rather then paying more to get random stats. I for one would like to build a chassis with emphasis on reliability...

It would also be nice to have a couple of customer chassis with more random stats to give new and low end teams some fun. Hello Dallara, Simtek, Fondmetal, etc...

[Aerond]

But the new chassis thing is meant not to have customer chassis anymore! I say "never say never", but It'd would mean keeping like a link to the old system which honestly is something I don't see.

As for the area emphasis idea, well, you can always upgrade your car later if there's an area you're not particularly happy with, that's why I added the chance of buying extra handling and downforce.

[SuperAguri]

Well F1 has mostly had customer chassis. It would just be nice to see a couple of chassis builders in there. However the way I would see customer chassis working is more to do with making it more random with the stats, so it is more of a gamble.

I know we could improve the cars but we can't improve max bhp for example. As it stands it is entirely possible for some to spend 600 credits and end up with a worse car then someone who spends 300. Looking at the price and ranges it is unlikely anyone is going to spend 100 to 200 on a chassis because realistically it is going to be too slow and even though you could buy a decent engine you will be limited by the max bhp. There is also very little reason to spend 900 over 800 as statisitcally you are likely to get a car that is just as good.

The emphasis is more a way of improving your chance on one of the ratings, for example if we use the 2s method I suggest then it just means you know you are not going to get the two lowest figures. ie spend 400 and emphasis max bhp, then you will know you can get an engine that is 730 bhp (or can be upgraded to), or improve your chances with reliability so even if you spend 300, you know you will get a minimum of 12000.

Chances are most people will spend between 400 to 600 credits on a car, so this will give people a bit more of a chance at getting a reasonable car.

[Aerond]

I know we could improve the cars but we can't improve max bhp for example. As it stands it is entirely possible for some to spend 600 credits and end up with a worse car then someone who spends 300. Looking at the price and ranges it is unlikely anyone is going to spend 100 to 200 on a chassis because realistically it is going to be too slow and even though you could buy a decent engine you will be limited by the max bhp. There is also very little reason to spend 900 over 800 as statisitcally you are likely to get a car that is just as good.

But F1 is full of examples where a high budget didn't mean a better chassis than teams with a lower one. So yeah, that's why the chance exists for a team spending 300 to end up with a better chassis than someone spending 600. As for the Max BHP issue, I agree, but all it'd need is to adjust the Max.BHP ranges tighter.

[Aerond]

Forgot to present this before; Here's the 2016 set of rules for testing; 2015 has proven useful so I could gain ground over how useful testing would be, and quite satisfactory in the number of conclussions I've reached.

From 1st January 2016;

OFFICIAL TEST SESSIONS: Your usual treat of all the drivers. We'll have 3 official test sessions per season at the beggining. This sessions are free to attend for every team BUT WILL NOT BE MANDATORY, so if a team choses to hide their cards, it's ok to do so. The max. number of drivers per team is 2 for official test sessions. No exp. or grip points will be given during official test sessions. All entries to test sessions must be CONFIRMED; so if you don't confirm you're attending a test session, it will be understood you have no interest in attending the test.

PRIVATE TEST SESSIONS:

-- This sessions can have a max number of 4 drivers per team (for a grand total of 6 teams), 13 teams (with 2 drivers per team) and a max of 26 drivers overall.

-- Each test session must have its own wiki page listing the date, drivers and track involved.

-- Test sessions can happen at any permanent track which is available for Grand Prix 2, the commission can refuse a venue if the quality of the track does not meet basic standards (poor track layout, poor CC-Line, poor overall look...). Test sessions can't take part in championship venues before the date of the Grand Prix.

-- Test sessions have a cost for the teams; The cost will be 10 credits per session at the home country of a team or a test held in the 3 days after a Grand Prix, in the case of Grand Prix venues. The cost will be 20 credits por international tests. Teams without a track in their home countries can name a track at a nearby country to count as their "home track", testing there will cost 10 credits.

-- Pay drivers will pay 2 credits per session (only drivers without a race drive apply)

-- A driver shall only test for one team at a time during a test session

-- Each driver will gain 2 exp. points per session

-- Drivers will gain Grip points per session, the team owner must say if the team is focusing on qualifying or race pace during the test. Then the driver will be given grip points accordingly to the focus of the team. The number of grip points will depend solely on the number of drivers present at the team; the more drivers, the less track time your drivers will get and the less points they will gain, so.

1 Driver - 10 Grip points
2 Drivers - 5 Grip points
3 or 4 Drivers - 2 Grip points

-- You can also test your updates back to back to check how they work; Focusing on this won't give your drivers any experience or grip points, but it'll help you know how the new updates work. To make this work, I will set your drivers with a very low random grip range, so the driver gets consistent enough lap times to check how much they improve with the newer version of the car.

[Aerond]

Those additional changes look good to me. Should help teams achieve a decent amount of credits and give people more choices.

About the compensation for drivers who've had credits invested in them, I think there are two ways of doing it to be honest.

1. Do nothing, those drivers who have had credits spent on them loose all their upgrades and we start over with no compensation.

2. Drivers who have had credits spent on them get a percentage bonus when calculating the driver stats for next year. Say 1000 credits spent gives a 5% bonus to whatever they are given?

I can't see how refunding credits that have been spent on drivers is fair, that will give some people a massive advantage over others.

Now I re-read this I had overlooked point 2. Sounds pretty fair, although It will benefit the drivers themselves and not the team owners who spent the credits (which isn't necessarily bad, just means that if Team Owner A spent 200 cr on a driver, and that driver now drives for Team B, it's Team B who gets the benefit)

[Warren Hughes]

Those additional changes look good to me. Should help teams achieve a decent amount of credits and give people more choices.

About the compensation for drivers who've had credits invested in them, I think there are two ways of doing it to be honest.

1. Do nothing, those drivers who have had credits spent on them loose all their upgrades and we start over with no compensation.

2. Drivers who have had credits spent on them get a percentage bonus when calculating the driver stats for next year. Say 1000 credits spent gives a 5% bonus to whatever they are given?

I can't see how refunding credits that have been spent on drivers is fair, that will give some people a massive advantage over others.

Now I re-read this I had overlooked point 2. Sounds pretty fair, although It will benefit the drivers themselves and not the team owners who spent the credits (which isn't necessarily bad, just means that if Team Owner A spent 200 cr on a driver, and that driver now drives for Team B, it's Team B who gets the benefit)

I agree with this, as it would look wrong if Mark Dagnall suddenly turned rubbish because he lost all the performance that Aerond had spent credits for him to get.

[AndreaModa]

Yeah that's true, but that was always the case with the old system anyway if a driver switched teams, so in my view it's the best option. The actual percentage boost though needs to be agreed on.

[TomWazzleshaw]

Yeah that's true, but that was always the case with the old system anyway if a driver switched teams, so in my view it's the best option. The actual percentage boost though needs to be agreed on.

5% per 1000 credits equates to 50 performance points per 1000. Personally, I'd like to see it set at somewhere between 7 and 10% but I'd still be fine with it at 5%

[the Masked Lapwing]

Yeah that's true, but that was always the case with the old system anyway if a driver switched teams, so in my view it's the best option. The actual percentage boost though needs to be agreed on.

5% per 1000 credits equates to 50 performance points per 1000. Personally, I'd like to see it set at somewhere between 7 and 10% but I'd still be fine with it at 5%

I'd be happy with less than 1000 credits - I know I've spent heavily on Davies but I've still only spent about 400 credits on him, and I doubt Dagnall has much more.

[AndreaModa]

What needs to be established (and I'm sure Aerond has already done this) is how much has been spent on drivers so the percentages can be fair. If Dagnall, which we'll assume has had the most spent on him, tops out at say 500 credits, with all other drivers below that amount spent on them, then perhaps the percentage should be altered to 10%, or whatever?

The good thing about this proposal it will only need to happen once, during this off-season and after that its sorted so there's no worry about re-calculations or drivers in future cocking the system up.

[Aerond]

Yeah that's true, but that was always the case with the old system anyway if a driver switched teams, so in my view it's the best option. The actual percentage boost though needs to be agreed on.

5% per 1000 credits equates to 50 performance points per 1000. Personally, I'd like to see it set at somewhere between 7 and 10% but I'd still be fine with it at 5%

I'd be happy with less than 1000 credits - I know I've spent heavily on Davies but I've still only spent about 400 credits on him, and I doubt Dagnall has much more.

My approach to this (as I understand it) is a bit different and I thought the 5% increment meant a 5% increment over the Grip per 1000 credits spent. So if a driver has 14500 Grip points at anything (I think only Davies and Dagnall meet this ammount as of now), the increment would be a 2,5% over 14500; that is 362 Grip points on top of whatever the RNG decides. 2nd example; a driver which had received 50 credits in one area (100 performance points) would receive an extra of 70 performance points (14100 * 0.005 = 70.5, since performance points can't be cut in half, let's keep it at 70). Let's say the RNG sets +120 points for that driver in Race Grip. The final stats of the driver in Race Grip would be 14000 + 120 + 70 = 14190