Hakkinen or Salo: which Mika is better?

[Gerudo Dragon]

Salo
Races: 111
Championships: 0
Wins: 0 (Was going to win at Hockenheim in 1999 but had to give 1st away because of team orders)
Podiums: 2
Career points: 33
Pole positions: 0
Fastest laps: 0

Hakkinen
Races: 165
Championships 2: (1998, 1999)
Wins: 20
Podiums: 51
Career points: 420
Pole positions: 26
Fastest laps: 25

[TomWazzleshaw]

I'll let a Mr M. Brundle sum this up:

It's a fairly short debate Murray.

[AdrianSutil]

Salo never got the break he deserved. The only time he was in a race-winning car, he was supporting Irvine for the title.

[Backmarker]

Salo never got the break he deserved. The only time he was in a race-winning car, he was supporting Irvine for the title.

Even in equal machinery Hakkinen would have beaten Salo. But it might have been as close or closer than it was between Hakkinen and Coulthard. I like Salo, it would have been nice to see him get a top drive, rather than at teams past their best like Lotus and Tyrrell were.

[dinizintheoven]

And they couldn't stand the sight of each other, so it could have been just like an inter-Finland Prost/Senna all over again...

[WeirdKerr]

see british f3 championship in 1990

[nome66]

Brundle or Blundell?
Juan Fangio or JPM?
Ralf or Michael?
Phill or Graham?.....or Damon?
...Jauque and Gille went up the hill!
rofl
names are fun

[Klon]

...Jauque and Gille went up the hill!

That's namewang!

[midgrid]

Are the two Mikas still enemies, or do they get along better now that their F1 careers are over?

[FullMetalJack]

Brundle or Blundell?
Juan Fangio or JPM?
Ralf or Michael?
Phill or Graham?.....or Damon?
...Jauque and Gille went up the hill!
rofl
names are fun

Brundle
Fangio
Michael
Graham
Gilles

If you were actually after answers.

[Sunshine_Baby_[IT]]

Hakkinen is a great champion and probably the best F1 driver in the late 90s. Salo never had a competitive car (except the six races he spent driving for Ferrari in 1999), but I don't think that with a competitive car he would have been as good as Hakkinen.

[Phoenix]

The fact Salo's F1 debut was delayed by three years because he was caught driving drunk is enough evidence for me that Häkkinen is better. And don't look at me like that.

[DemocalypseNow]

The fact Salo's F1 debut was delayed by three years because he was caught driving drunk is enough evidence for me that Häkkinen is better. And don't look at me like that.

+1.

Salo could be a bit of an idiot sometimes. Hakk not so much.

[David AGS]

If the drink driving case didnt happen, I think it could be different.

If he lets say started in 1992-1993 could have been in a smaller team (possibly as Zanardi's replacement in 1993...) and could have made his mark. Saying that Tyrrell in 1995 was not the worst car. Also at that time, Tyrrell were a midfield team, hence the 1994 season was very good.

Salo was running 3rd Brazil, 5th in Argentina, and was quick early in the season, but didnt score any points until Italy. If he scored lets say 10+ points he could have been in a better team, like a Jordan, Ligier or so. He did bring some backing at that time as well.

Now thw other Mika, he was a good solid driver in 1991-1992, then took a gamble to be a tester at McLaren with no guarantee of a seat. But it worked out for him in a big and successful way

[DanielPT]

The fact Salo's F1 debut was delayed by three years because he was caught driving drunk is enough evidence for me that Häkkinen is better. And don't look at me like that.

+1.

Salo could be a bit of an idiot sometimes. Hakk not so much.

+2.

Not much of a contest really. I remember than when Salo replaced Schumi at Ferrari in 1999, Irvine was transformed into team-leader immediately and not only because the wanted that way. He was marginally faster in my opinion. And Irvine was much slower than Schumacher, who, in turn, was considered on par with Hakkinen if not a bit better.

[RonDenisDeletraz]

The fact Salo's F1 debut was delayed by three years because he was caught driving drunk is enough evidence for me that Häkkinen is better. And don't look at me like that.

+1.

Salo could be a bit of an idiot sometimes. Hakk not so much.

+2.

Not much of a contest really. I remember than when Salo replaced Schumi at Ferrari in 1999, Irvine was transformed into team-leader immediately and not only because the wanted that way. He was marginally faster in my opinion. And Irvine was much slower than Schumacher, who, in turn, was considered on par with Hakkinen if not a bit better.

Irvine had been in the car the whole year, Salo had barely driven it before.

I think that Salo would have done a better job than Irvine if he was in the car from 1996.

[DemocalypseNow]

I think Salo would have been a nearly-man had he been given a top drive. Someone who is there or thereabouts, but doesn't have that last 1% to push him ahead of everyone else.

[DanielPT]

+2.

Not much of a contest really. I remember than when Salo replaced Schumi at Ferrari in 1999, Irvine was transformed into team-leader immediately and not only because the wanted that way. He was marginally faster in my opinion. And Irvine was much slower than Schumacher, who, in turn, was considered on par with Hakkinen if not a bit better.

Irvine had been in the car the whole year, Salo had barely driven it before.

I think that Salo would have done a better job than Irvine if he was in the car from 1996.

Even if Salo went better than Irvine in those conditions, don't forget Irvine was given a trouncing by Schumacher. I am with kostas on this and too think he would have been a nearly-man.

[DemocalypseNow]

Actually, it just seems to be that way with Finnish champions. The outspoken ones never win anything. Hakkinen, Gronholm, Kankkunen, they all came from the same mould. Especially the first two, they were unassuming and just got on with it, no bullshit, no politics, just driving. It took both a long time to become top drivers (just into their 30s) but when they did, they were considered the best in the world.

I like the way this breed of Finn deals with the world around them. If someone asks them a stupidly obvious question they would just respond with an equal answer. And they just got straight to the point with their answers than taking a very roundabout method. Ones that come mind;

GRONHOLM
Journo: "What's wrong with the car?"
MG: "Guess! No power steering, and we have two long stages to go...I am FED UP with this car."

MG: "Three gears! Three gears, whole stage, look at the time...you can tell Corrado (Provera, Peugeot team principal) three is enough!"

Journo: "Why is it such a tricky decision this afternoon (to choose which tyres to use)?"
MG: "Because the road is not here, I cannot see it, that's the problem..."

Journo: "You were behind Loeb but on the same pace as Mikko [Hirvonen] though."
MG: "Yes, well we have the same car, and the same colours, so it seems to go the same speed."

HAKKINEN
Journo: "Mika, the perfect lights to flag victory, it looked very easy, was it?"
MH: "Oh yeah, it was so easy, you can't believe it.......no it wasn't."

Journo: "Mika, was that the best start of your career, third to first?"
MK: "No, not really...."

Journo: "Mika, Ron Dennis said to us a moment ago that he thought it was the right decision to come with the new car given the problems you've had, do you agree with that?"
MK: "Right decision.....................................Yes."

Journo: "Mika, you've been a superb world champion for the last two years but your reign for now is over, how do you feel?"
MK: "So sad....."

KANKKUNEN
Journo: "What kind of tyres were you using for that stage?"
JK: "Black, round Pirellis."

I can't see Salo saying anything like that. Those three only cared about what happened on the track, they were not interested in stupidities outside of it.

[WaffleCat]

Actually, it just seems to be that way with Finnish champions. The outspoken ones never win anything. Hakkinen, Gronholm, Kankkunen, they all came from the same mould. Especially the first two, they were unassuming and just got on with it, no bullshit, no politics, just driving. It took both a long time to become top drivers (just into their 30s) but when they did, they were considered the best in the world.

I like the way this breed of Finn deals with the world around them. If someone asks them a stupidly obvious question they would just respond with an equal answer. And they just got straight to the point with their answers than taking a very roundabout method. Ones that come mind;

Not to mention Raikkonen.....

[Phoenix]

MG: "Three gears! Three gears, whole stage, look at the time...you can tell Corrado (Fabi, Peugeot team principal) three is enough!"

I think you mean Corrado Provera, not Fabi. Corrado Fabi went through with racing after 1987.

[DemocalypseNow]

MG: "Three gears! Three gears, whole stage, look at the time...you can tell Corrado (Fabi, Peugeot team principal) three is enough!"

I think you mean Corrado Provera, not Fabi. Corrado Fabi went through with racing after 1987.

Fail by me. I was reading about Teo Fabi earlier so the surname stuck

[CoopsII]

The fact Salo's F1 debut was delayed by three years because he was caught driving drunk is enough evidence for me that Häkkinen is better. And don't look at me like that.

I cant help it, these trousers are uncomfortably tight.

I hope Hakk regrets retiring so soon, too soon. I recall reading in F1 News that he came quite close to returning to F1 in 2003(or 2004) with BAR, and that was after a failed attempt by Williams to sign him when JPM went to Woking.

[Phoenix]

The fact Salo's F1 debut was delayed by three years because he was caught driving drunk is enough evidence for me that Häkkinen is better. And don't look at me like that.

I cant help it, these trousers are uncomfortably tight.

Back on topic, back on topic!

[Sunshine_Baby_[IT]]

The fact Salo's F1 debut was delayed by three years because he was caught driving drunk

I didn't know about this before...
In which team was he supposed to have his debut?

[Phoenix]

The fact Salo's F1 debut was delayed by three years because he was caught driving drunk

I didn't know about this before...
In which team was he supposed to have his debut?

If I remember correctly, it was supposed to be Tyrrell.

[tzerof1]

Speaking of Mika Häkkinen, here's one of my most favourite moments of his http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KbcspCwfwk

It's one of my favourites just because of how blunt he is("Can we have a break?") and the fact that he actually cares about one of his top adversaries on a very human level not seen very often in motor racing.

As for which one is better, I'll say Häkkinen, he may have had his more daft moments(Monza 1999), but for the most part he shut up and got on with it, and didn't have the tendency to spew publicocrap unlike DC.

And I never saw the 1999 German GP in full, but could anybody answer the question of whether Salo would've had the same chance for the win if Häkkinen's tyre hadn't exploded? Just wondering.

[Sunshine_Baby_[IT]]

The fact Salo's F1 debut was delayed by three years because he was caught driving drunk

I didn't know about this before...
In which team was he supposed to have his debut?

If I remember correctly, it was supposed to be Tyrrell.

So the same where he raced a few years later.

[midgrid]

The fact Salo's F1 debut was delayed by three years because he was caught driving drunk is enough evidence for me that Häkkinen is better. And don't look at me like that.

In more recent times, wasn't Mika Mäki's (now seemingly-ended career) hampered by some irresponsible behaviour on public roads?

[RonDenisDeletraz]

The fact Salo's F1 debut was delayed by three years because he was caught driving drunk is enough evidence for me that Häkkinen is better. And don't look at me like that.

In more recent times, wasn't Mika Mäki's (now seemingly-ended career) hampered by some irresponsible behaviour on public roads?

I don't know, he hasn't raced since 2010 I think.

[Ferrim]

The fact Salo's F1 debut was delayed by three years because he was caught driving drunk is enough evidence for me that Häkkinen is better. And don't look at me like that.

+1.

Salo could be a bit of an idiot sometimes. Hakk not so much.

+2.

Not much of a contest really. I remember than when Salo replaced Schumi at Ferrari in 1999, Irvine was transformed into team-leader immediately and not only because the wanted that way. He was marginally faster in my opinion. And Irvine was much slower than Schumacher, who, in turn, was considered on par with Hakkinen if not a bit better.

Yeah, and Hill beat Villeneuve beat Frentzen beat Hill...

It's always risky to compare drivers in different environments and moments.

Currently you have Hamilton who was at least equal with Alonso, who destroyed Fisichella, who destroyed Button... who defeated Hamilton last season.

[DanielPT]

Not much of a contest really. I remember than when Salo replaced Schumi at Ferrari in 1999, Irvine was transformed into team-leader immediately and not only because the wanted that way. He was marginally faster in my opinion. And Irvine was much slower than Schumacher, who, in turn, was considered on par with Hakkinen if not a bit better.

Yeah, and Hill beat Villeneuve beat Frentzen beat Hill...

It's always risky to compare drivers in different environments and moments.

Currently you have Hamilton who was at least equal with Alonso, who destroyed Fisichella, who destroyed Button... who defeated Hamilton last season.

True, but all my comparisons are related to the same year. And since it is the same year, then those are the same rules albeit in different cars (in Hakkinen's case). It only fails if you consider that McLaren had a car miles faster than Ferrari and that Schumacher was inhuman that year (ironically he broke his leg).

[Shizuka]

GRONHOLM
Journo: "What's wrong with the car?"
MG: "Guess! No power steering, and we have two long stages to go...I am FED UP with this car."

Oh, I remember Marcus moaning about the 307 WRC. A lot.

[DemocalypseNow]

GRONHOLM
Journo: "What's wrong with the car?"
MG: "Guess! No power steering, and we have two long stages to go...I am FED UP with this car."

Oh, I remember Marcus moaning about the 307 WRC. A lot.

"A lot" is a bit of an understatement. In literally every interview he did between 2004 & 2005, he complained about something to do with the car. Suspension, Power Steering (it would fail with ridiculous consistency), Engine, Gearbox, Setup...the lot, basically. In those two years he made Rubens Barrichello look perfectly content person. But unlike Rubens, he had a point, the 307 was a crapbox compared to it's older brother 206.

[Nuppiz]

GRONHOLM
Journo: "What's wrong with the car?"
MG: "Guess! No power steering, and we have two long stages to go...I am FED UP with this car."

Oh, I remember Marcus moaning about the 307 WRC. A lot.

"A lot" is a bit of an understatement. In literally every interview he did between 2004 & 2005, he complained about something to do with the car. Suspension, Power Steering (it would fail with ridiculous consistency), Engine, Gearbox, Setup...the lot, basically. In those two years he made Rubens Barrichello look perfectly content person. But unlike Rubens, he had a point, the 307 was a crapbox compared to it's older brother 206.

I absolutely agree, it wouldn't be mad to say that Peugeot threw away a couple of championships by switching from the nimble 206 to the cumbersome and unreliable 307.

[DemocalypseNow]

Oh, I remember Marcus moaning about the 307 WRC. A lot.

"A lot" is a bit of an understatement. In literally every interview he did between 2004 & 2005, he complained about something to do with the car. Suspension, Power Steering (it would fail with ridiculous consistency), Engine, Gearbox, Setup...the lot, basically. In those two years he made Rubens Barrichello look perfectly content person. But unlike Rubens, he had a point, the 307 was a crapbox compared to it's older brother 206.

I absolutely agree, it wouldn't be mad to say that Peugeot threw away a couple of championships by switching from the nimble 206 to the cumbersome and unreliable 307.

More Marcus gold: 1 | 2 | 3

[DanielPT]

"A lot" is a bit of an understatement. In literally every interview he did between 2004 & 2005, he complained about something to do with the car. Suspension, Power Steering (it would fail with ridiculous consistency), Engine, Gearbox, Setup...the lot, basically. In those two years he made Rubens Barrichello look perfectly content person. But unlike Rubens, he had a point, the 307 was a crapbox compared to it's older brother 206.

I absolutely agree, it wouldn't be mad to say that Peugeot threw away a couple of championships by switching from the nimble 206 to the cumbersome and unreliable 307.

More Marcus gold: 1 | 2 | 3

It will be sh*ting

Absolutely brilliant.

[Nuppiz]

More Marcus gold: 1 | 2 | 3

It will be sh*ting

Absolutely brilliant.

But none of them can beat this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAGbrM-M ... re=related (warning, mildly NSFW)

[DemocalypseNow]

More Marcus gold: 1 | 2 | 3

It will be sh*ting

Absolutely brilliant.

But none of them can beat this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAGbrM-M ... re=related (warning, mildly NSFW)

The thing that really made that hilarious is the hand gestures. He just keeps doing it over and over

[Ataxia]

More Marcus gold: 1 | 2 | 3

It will be sh*ting

Absolutely brilliant.

But none of them can beat this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAGbrM-M ... re=related (warning, mildly NSFW)

NSFW...does that mean Not Suitable for Wmetcalf?