Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

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Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by FMecha »

I originally wrote this in kostas22's temporary forum. :(

In the kostas22's temporary forum, I wrote:Today (as of posting time), 18 years ago, Roland Ratzenberger died in the qualifying for the 1994 San Marino GP. The next day, Ayrton Senna suffered a fatal accident in the race. Senna crashed into the Tamburello corner.

As usual:

RIP Roland Ratzenberger: July 4, 1960 - April 30, 1994
RIP Ayrton Senna: March 21, 1960 - May 1, 1994

:cry:


That is all, guys.
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by Sunshine_Baby_[IT] »

The saddest F1 weekend of my memories... :cry:
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by CoopsII »

Always remembered, and so are the others.
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by Londoner »

My God, is it really 18 years ago since that fateful weekend? RIP Roland and Ayrton, never forgotten. :cry:
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by Pamphlet »

I still can't believe that Rubens survived that weekend.

RIP Roland and Ayrton.
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by RonDenisDeletraz »

Rest in Peace
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by Ferrim »

18 years on, only 18 years ago!
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by WaffleCat »

HBO decided to show Senna at 8pm on the dot(I'm GMT +8),and I have never wept more than I just did while watching anything on television.Ever.

RIP Ayrton Senna and Roland Ratzenberger.
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by tommykl »

WaffleCat wrote:HBO decided to show Senna at 8pm on the dot(I'm GMT +8),and I have never wept more than I just did while watching anything on television.Ever.

RIP Ayrton Senna and Roland Ratzenberger.

They're showing Senna on BeTV tonight as well.
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by Priceless »

That weekend of May 1, 1994 was one that left its mark in my life forever.

I was only 11 years old then, but I still have some clear memories of it... first Barrichello's spectacular crash on Friday, then that absolutely horrible moment on Saturday qualifying when the front wing in Roland Ratzenberger's Simtek failed, sending him to a fatal crash at full speed... Not just the media, or the people involved, but as far as I remember even us common folk had our doubts whether that event should go on or not. It did go on... after all, motor racing is dangerous, and drivers are aware of the danger when they participate in races.

Come race day, and there was me and my family doing the usual, gathering round the TV to watch the race... but that morning was different. There was a heavy atmosphere surrounding the event, with one injured and one dead driver already. Right at the start, I can't tell exactly which moment, there was a huge crash that prompted a safety car... later on I went to know that debris that flew off the cars ended up on the grandstands, killing more people. But the show had to go on, and the race was resumed with Ayrton Senna in the Williams-Renault on the lead, being pressurized by Michael Schumacher in the Benetton-Ford.

The TV feed was displaying Schumacher's on-board camera when Senna's car made a strange move to the opposite side and went off, crashing into the wall. We, much like everybody else, still hoped Senna would survive... I'm Brazilian, and for many of us, myself included, he was sort of a hero, and you can think what a hero is to a 11-year-old kid. We kept on watching and hoping... until the moment I saw Senna's head move inside the cockpit, for one last time, while the rescue team was still on its way. There was no official announcement, and any official announcements that happened later will be different from what I say here, and I'm probably wrong, but at that exact moment I could feel it: Senna was dead. At that moment, I felt like time froze. Even now, 18 years after that happened, it's still hard for me to be writing this.

Any doubts I had then, whether the event should go on or not, were already clear after that: it cannot go on. That which was supposed to be a racing event had turned into a bloodbath. Even for the safety standards of 1994, and for a sport that is intrinsically dangerous, that was downright too unsafe. There was just no way it could go on. But the powers-that-be decided that the show had to go on, and it did, and Michael Schumacher won. Given everything that happened, that was largely irrelevant; apparently to me, some people there wanted a winner, so the race went on... but, in my opinion at least, there can be no winner in such an event. It was a very, very big loss for motorsport.

Motorsport is dangerous... and the events in Imola 1994 were to show, the hardest way possible, where to draw the line.

R. I. P.
Roland Ratzenberger (July 4, 1960 - April 30, 1994)
Ayrton Senna (March 21, 1960 - May 1, 1994)

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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by Londoner »

Priceless wrote:The TV feed was displaying Schumacher's on-board camera when Senna's car made a strange move to the opposite side and went off, crashing into the wall. We, much like everybody else, still hoped Senna would survive... I'm Brazilian, and for many of us, myself included, he was sort of a hero, and you can think what a hero is to a 11-year-old kid. We kept on watching and hoping... until the moment I saw Senna's head move inside the cockpit, for one last time, while the rescue team was still on its way. There was no official announcement, and any official announcements that happened later will be different from what I say here, and I'm probably wrong, but at that exact moment I could feel it: Senna was dead. At that moment, I felt like time froze. Even now, 18 years after that happened, it's still hard for me to be writing this.

Sadly, I also believe that Senna was killed pretty much on impact, and the head movement was the last gasp of life. The whole weekend was just surreal, and it still is today.

Stuff revision tonight, I'm watching the Senna movie. :(
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by Ferrim »

Priceless wrote:There was no official announcement, and any official announcements that happened later will be different from what I say here, and I'm probably wrong, but at that exact moment I could feel it: Senna was dead.


That was it, actually. Senna's official time of death was set at 14:17, that is, the moment he hit the wall. Before he made the famous head movement, which was an spasm; he was already dead at that point. It feels awkward, just like the fact that Senna's final lap, which so many of us have seen, doesn't exist for the history books, as the race was red-flagged and restarted from two laps earlier.
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by Yannick »

Oh dear, there is only 15 minutes left of the day and I had not thought of it all day and now, this remembers me of it. Well, I guess my period of grief over what happened back then is over. Yet, that does not take away from the seriousness of the events.

Now it's back into motorsports fandom hiatus for me.
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by Sublime_FA11C »

I also watched it live. The crash seemed like a lazy spin and i thought Senna would just retire the car with some mechanical failure. What followed was just difficult to take in. While the race was still stopped i went to the window and just stared into empty space for a long time. Life outside was pretty much normal, but quickly word got out onto the street below and you could see people gossiping about it, even little kids stopped playing and talked about it. Senna was immortal. He wasn't the best driver in the world, his popularity went beyond racing and the reasons people were drawn to him and praised him so much had little to do with statistics or wins. People who liked him didn't choose to. It wasn't logical, it just was. Maybe that's unfair to other drivers, but that's how it was.

The shocking events on friday and saturday only drew more people to the event. What they were treated to in the race was stunning and morbid. Aryton's accident and subsequent death made a lot of people feel Brazilian in the next few days. Icons of the 20th century usually withered away or faded out into freaks and weirdos. Got fat or drunk or useless. Or they took their own pathetic lives.

As rude as it is to say, it was a fitting way to go. On track, leading the race and fighting off a challenger who would go on to become the greatest of his generation. Some people are not destined to die in bed. Get wrinkled and forgetfull. Although i wouldn't say that to his family. But the world wants heroes, and he became one. To this day he gets elevated above other racing drivers who were equally good, or died in accidents. It isn't fair, or logical.
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by AndreaModa »

Sublime_FA11C wrote:I also watched it live. The crash seemed like a lazy spin and i thought Senna would just retire the car with some mechanical failure. What followed was just difficult to take in. While the race was still stopped i went to the window and just stared into empty space for a long time. Life outside was pretty much normal, but quickly word got out onto the street below and you could see people gossiping about it, even little kids stopped playing and talked about it. Senna was immortal. He wasn't the best driver in the world, his popularity went beyond racing and the reasons people were drawn to him and praised him so much had little to do with statistics or wins. People who liked him didn't choose to. It wasn't logical, it just was. Maybe that's unfair to other drivers, but that's how it was.

The shocking events on friday and saturday only drew more people to the event. What they were treated to in the race was stunning and morbid. Aryton's accident and subsequent death made a lot of people feel Brazilian in the next few days. Icons of the 20th century usually withered away or faded out into freaks and weirdos. Got fat or drunk or useless. Or they took their own pathetic lives.

As rude as it is to say, it was a fitting way to go. On track, leading the race and fighting off a challenger who would go on to become the greatest of his generation. Some people are not destined to die in bed. Get wrinkled and forgetfull. Although i wouldn't say that to his family. But the world wants heroes, and he became one. To this day he gets elevated above other racing drivers who were equally good, or died in accidents. It isn't fair, or logical.


A superb post, echoing my thoughts almost exactly. I watched Senna on DVD this evening with some mates, I think the shocking nature of it all never goes away no matter how many times you see it.
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by AdrianSutil »

Everything about the great man has already been said. I can't add to it.

RIP Ayrton and Roland.
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by CoopsII »

Sublime_FA11C wrote:As rude as it is to say, it was a fitting way to go.

No. Being alive is always better than being killed no matter who you are or what your occupation is.
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by DanielPT »

AdrianSutil wrote:Everything about the great man has already been said. I can't add to it.

RIP Ayrton and Roland.


We can still say:

RIP Ayrton and Roland


That was one really hard weekend to live by...
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by Sublime_FA11C »

CoopsII wrote:
Sublime_FA11C wrote:As rude as it is to say, it was a fitting way to go.

No. Being alive is always better than being killed no matter who you are or what your occupation is.
No argument from me, but since we all have to go eventually it was... you know. I'd rather not compare the value of dying doing what you love most, to getting killed by a lunatic or an illnes. That would be morbid.

The astronauts didn't sign up to blow up in a failed launch or other failure, it was a risk they accepted because they wanted to go into space. Soldiers also take the risks, and their job is the least glamorous, or even appretiated sometimes. I'm romantic so there's something special in the way people take needless risks rather than just stay comfortable and take it easy.
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by dr-baker »

Sublime_FA11C wrote:
CoopsII wrote:
Sublime_FA11C wrote:As rude as it is to say, it was a fitting way to go.

No. Being alive is always better than being killed no matter who you are or what your occupation is.
No argument from me, but since we all have to go eventually it was... you know. I'd rather not compare the value of dying doing what you love most, to getting killed by a lunatic or an illness. That would be morbid.

The astronauts didn't sign up to blow up in a failed launch or other failure, it was a risk they accepted because they wanted to go into space. Soldiers also take the risks, and their job is the least glamorous, or even appretiated sometimes. I'm romantic so there's something special in the way people take needless risks rather than just stay comfortable and take it easy.

I am understanding both sides of the argument. Nobody wants to die. Particularly not in a public, horrific way. BUT death is still inevitable. There is a 100% chance of it. So when it does happen, I would rather it happen painfree in my sleep, or else while in the middle of something I enjoy doing (so long as whatever caused my death does not involve harm or discomfort to anybody else).

And rest in peace, Roland and Ayrton.
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by CoopsII »

dr-baker wrote:Nobody wants to die. Particularly not in a public, horrific way. BUT death is still inevitable. There is a 100% chance of it. So when it does happen, I would rather it happen painfree in my sleep, or else while in the middle of something I enjoy doing (so long as whatever caused my death does not involve harm or discomfort to anybody else)

Im not having a go, I know what Sublime_FA11C is getting at, and you too. To quote David Brent, though, "Live fast, die young? No. Live fast die old"
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

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CoopsII wrote:
dr-baker wrote:Nobody wants to die. Particularly not in a public, horrific way. BUT death is still inevitable. There is a 100% chance of it. So when it does happen, I would rather it happen painfree in my sleep, or else while in the middle of something I enjoy doing (so long as whatever caused my death does not involve harm or discomfort to anybody else)

Im not having a go, I know what Sublime_FA11C is getting at, and you too. To quote David Brent, though, "Live fast, die young? No. Live fast die old"

Fair enough.
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by Thunderer »

I recall the day well (from my perspective), Having missed practice and qualifying due to activities with the parents, I managed to catch the start of the race. Having witnessed the collision on the start line and the resulting safety car's appearance, I waited with baited breath when the race restarted and the tragedy which was to follow happened.

At first I thought he was just injured. Then it came to be that something was far more serious than that. I was ordered to switch over the channel or turn the television off because I wasn't allowed to watch 'silly nonsense' by my mother (she despised Murray Walker). So, I got my football and went outside for a few hours. Coming home to the news broadcast announcing Senna's death. We were all talking about it at School the following day. :(
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by CoopsII »

Thunderer wrote:I recall the day well (from my perspective), Having missed practice and qualifying due to activities with the parents, I managed to catch the start of the race. Having witnessed the collision on the start line and the resulting safety car's appearance, I waited with baited breath when the race restarted and the tragedy which was to follow happened.

I too only saw the race, Id been at work on the Friday and Saturday. I also didnt believe Senna would die. I think perhaps because Ratzy had died the day before, I dont know, it couldnt happen again because lightning doesnt strike twice and all that. After the race I went to the pub and there was much talk about what had happened but even then we thought Senna would live, even if he wouldnt race again. I got home late, very drunk, turned the TV on and checked Ceefax and although it hadnt been fully updated the old headline was bad enough F1:SENNA "CLINICALLY DEAD".

I checked again in the morning and it had been updated, it wasnt a great feeling.
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by fjackdaw »

I wasn't a formula 1 fan at the time, my brother and dad were watching it. For some reason, I knew something bad was just about to happen, and to one of the big names. Maybe it was with everything else that had happened that weekend, and with the crash at the start. There was a sense that things were escalating. But still, Ayrton's accident was unrelated to any of that really, other than the safety car. It was just odd that I knew it was coming.
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by FMecha »

Having decided to anually bump this thread instead of creating a new one every single year (this is now April 30-May 1), I found this gem when I went to the Sega Retro wiki some days ago. Yes, it is a personal talk with Senna himself, released on the bathplugging Sega Saturn. Anyone founding this yet? :ugeek:

Now 19 years has passed since Ratzenberger and Senna's fatal accident(s) occur. :cry:
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by SeedStriker »

The moment Senna hit Tamburello was the first time that I said the "shite" out loud for a shunt; that was significative. I was expecting him to just unbuckled and jump out of the Williams, but didn't happen...
That whole weekend of Imola 94 was cursed. Rubinho almost got killed himself in the old Variante Baja, pit stops that went wrong, pieces of carbon fiber and wheels going into the gallery. The whole thing should've been cancelled when we lost tragically Roland Ratzenberger in the Variante Villeneuve, but no, Bernie wanted to keep his dirty money and on raceday, a series of stupid calls sent Magic Senna to the heavens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayjOW5DnwgM

I always watch this series on this day to remember the sheer stupidity, ambition and lack of morality of Williams Engineering, FOM, Bernie Ecclestone and the FIA as a whole.

RIP Roland Ratzenberger and Ayrton Senna da Silva. May your souls help Heavens to win races.
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by Yannick »

And to think there were no stacks of old tyres or anything in front of those concrete walls outside of the Tamburello and Villeneuve corners ... In retrospect, it's hard to believe they thought this track was safe.

F1 should have moved the San Marino GP to Mugello long before 1994.

It's been lucky for many that safety has improved significantly since that year. Yet, motorsport remains dangerous. Too many have died in motor racing since 1994. There remains an ongoing safety concern over trackside catch fencing on top of the outside wall of oval tracks. Improvements in that area are still pending since the 2011 IndyCar race at Las Vegas brutally showed they are necessary. Efforts for spectator, driver, crew and marshall safety must never slow down. Godspeed.
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by go_Rubens »

Yannick wrote:And to think there were no stacks of old tyres or anything in front of those concrete walls outside of the Tamburello and Villeneuve corners ... In retrospect, it's hard to believe they thought this track was safe.

F1 should have moved the San Marino GP to Mugello long before 1994.


It's important to remember that safety standards were different and yes, F1 was safe, but the safety standards were not as strictly enforced or they let tracks with a history of bad crashes got on the calendar anyway. F1 probably considered San Marino safe before 1994, but when the events of that weekend happened, F1 needed a rethink of safety. And they did rethink it. Although, some of the chicanes added to some of the tracks were extremely rejectful.

I wouldn't say F1 should have gone to Mugello long before 1994. The barriers are very close and some drivers said that if someone lost it, they would smash the tyres. Vitaly Petrov told reporters, "It is not for Formula One and, if you lost the steering or the tyre pressure dropped or whatever, then it will be a big crash."

Mugello may be a great track compared to Imola, but the safety isn't that great according to drivers and other people, like me.

RIP Roland Ratzenberger (1960 to 1994)
RIP Ayrton Senna (1960 to 1994)

I watched the Senna documentary not that long ago. It's sad, really. Eighteen years ago. What could have been.
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by Londoner »

I don't know about any of you lot, but this year's anniversary is the first where that weekend feels really quite distant and older than it actually is. I suppose it's because with Schumacher's second retirement, there's now no drivers on the grid today who were at Imola in 1994.

RIP Roland and Ayrton. Hopefully Ayrton is now going fishing with Professor Sid Watkins. :cry:
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by go_Rubens »

East Londoner wrote:I don't know about any of you lot, but this year's anniversary is the first where that weekend feels really quite distant and older than it actually is. I suppose it's because with Schumacher's second retirement, there's now no drivers on the grid today who were at Imola in 1994.


I might not have been born at that time or even seen the race, but I can see where you are coming from there. I wonder if anyone else feels the same.
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by gnrpoison »

It's weird how long ago, yet so recent those events feel. I guess fortunately missed the whole of that weekend as we were decorating the living room so there was no tv on but remember going to a pub later on for a meal with my parents and siblings and seeing people visibly disturbed watching highlights of the afternoon race and the reports on the news. I think though is how fortunate non of the huge accidents between Elio De Angelis and Ratzenbergers did not become fatal. You have to think perhaps in another world Berger and Donnolly's would have been fatal, also we are fortunate there has not been another driver go in those years since 94 but Kubica and Massa I thought were goners when I saw them live on tv.
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered

Post by CoopsII »

Another year but the memories of watching the live coverage that weekend are still as awful as ever.
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by mediocre »

Just recently finished watching the '94 FIA review (again) and everytime I see it, Senna's death still doesn't seem real to me. :(
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by DonTirri »

1994 San Marino GP was the first race I remember watchingl Sennas death came as a total shoci, even for the 6 year old me.

I do think that Senna died the right way. Far too soon, but since we all die eventually... Is there a better way to die for someone like Senna than going out in the lead, fighting hard for the win...
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by WeirdKerr »

Hard to beleive that this is now half my lifetime ago (i was 19 at the time) and i still remember sitting down to watch the race that sunday afternoon, already feeling black because of the death of Ratzenberger the day before( i hadnt seen it those days the beeb didnt cover Qualifying live) and being very uneasy at the start when all hell broke loose Lamy into Lehtos car then the safety car came out....
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by Barbazza »

gnrpoison wrote:It's weird how long ago, yet so recent those events feel. I guess fortunately missed the whole of that weekend as we were decorating the living room so there was no tv on but remember going to a pub later on for a meal with my parents and siblings and seeing people visibly disturbed watching highlights of the afternoon race and the reports on the news. I think though is how fortunate non of the huge accidents between Elio De Angelis and Ratzenbergers did not become fatal. You have to think perhaps in another world Berger and Donnolly's would have been fatal, also we are fortunate there has not been another driver go in those years since 94 but Kubica and Massa I thought were goners when I saw them live on tv.


Very well put. In a way I cannot believe that it will be the 20th anniversary next year. But in another sense, it seems like a totally different age. I have important personal memories of that weekend as well as the racing, so it's a doubly important date for me.

You're right about the luck in not having a fatal accident for so long. The one that always gets me is Donnelly's, as there really wasn't that much footage of it shown at the time. Seeing it on the Senna movie was a big shock for me, that was an awful one.
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by shinji »

DonTirri wrote:1994 San Marino GP was the first race I remember watchingl Sennas death came as a total shoci, even for the 6 year old me.

I do think that Senna died the right way. Far too soon, but since we all die eventually... Is there a better way to die for someone like Senna than going out in the lead, fighting hard for the win...


I kind of see where you're coming from, but I'd imagine he'd rather have survived, retired from racing when he wanted to, maybe get married and have children given he'd no longer be in mortal danger every fortnight, pursue his philanthropic work in Brazil get to bask in glory as a living legend at Interlagos every year.

Better than dying at 34, martyr for his cause or not. In my opinion anyway.
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by mario »

go_Rubens wrote:
Yannick wrote:And to think there were no stacks of old tyres or anything in front of those concrete walls outside of the Tamburello and Villeneuve corners ... In retrospect, it's hard to believe they thought this track was safe.

F1 should have moved the San Marino GP to Mugello long before 1994.


It's important to remember that safety standards were different and yes, F1 was safe, but the safety standards were not as strictly enforced or they let tracks with a history of bad crashes got on the calendar anyway. F1 probably considered San Marino safe before 1994, but when the events of that weekend happened, F1 needed a rethink of safety. And they did rethink it. Although, some of the chicanes added to some of the tracks were extremely rejectful.

I wouldn't say F1 should have gone to Mugello long before 1994. The barriers are very close and some drivers said that if someone lost it, they would smash the tyres. Vitaly Petrov told reporters, "It is not for Formula One and, if you lost the steering or the tyre pressure dropped or whatever, then it will be a big crash."

Mugello may be a great track compared to Imola, but the safety isn't that great according to drivers and other people, like me.

RIP Roland Ratzenberger (1960 to 1994)
RIP Ayrton Senna (1960 to 1994)

I watched the Senna documentary not that long ago. It's sad, really. Eighteen years ago. What could have been.

To a certain extent, there are those that feel that the fact that, since the FIA had been steadily increasing the severity of the crash tests in the late 1980's and early 1990's in the wake of the heavier accidents that the drivers had had in the late 1980's, that there was something of a false sense of security. That said, Imola was still considered to be a somewhat dangerous circuit at the time in the wake of Piquet and Berger's accidents a few years beforehand (though Piquet did recently reveal that he feels he never really recovered his form after that accident, whilst Berger did still suffer fractured ribs and burns to his hands).
The problem, though, seems to be that the perceived increase in safety of the cars was perhaps considered to be enough in and of itself to nullify the issues of safety with the circuit, such that things that might now seem obvious to us in retrospect - like energy absorbing barriers - were perhaps not perceived to be needed when energy absorbing structures were being built into the cars.

The nature of the tests also helped contribute to that sense of security - there were extensive tests for head on collisions, but the tests for side impacts were not as extensive and, as is evident from pictures of the time, cockpit side impact protection was essentially non existent as a result (a point that was rammed home in the following race in Monaco with Wendlinger's accident). If it was something that you didn't test for, it was something that those in the sport at the time didn't think about because as a result, and given that having lower cockpit sides gave the driver a much wider field of vision, the designers probably didn't think that it was necessary or desirable to raise the cockpit sides.
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Re: Imola 1994: remembered (for now)

Post by CoopsII »

Whlst searching about for rubbish pieces of F1 related art I stumbled across this one which I found strikingly moving and thought Id share with the group.
Image

This painting is titled "If Only"
Just For One Day...
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