Your Reject of the Race - Monza!

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 10 Sep 2011, 01:29

Now that it's Saturday, let's see who can out-Reject one another.

So far, my votes go to GP2 drivers Jules Bianchi and Giedo van der Garde despite being in contention for second place overall in the series, both of them qualified on the tenth row of the grid and variously blamed poor handling (Bianchi) and bad luck (van der Garde) for their results. Quite embarrasing since the other contender for runner-up, Charles Pic, is much closer to the pointy end of the grid. And Bianchi and van der Garde both have aspirations of Formula 1 some day ...

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 10 Sep 2011, 02:32

Just saying, This website is F1 Rejects, not GP2 Rejects.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 10 Sep 2011, 03:00

Nico Rosberg.

Seriously, WTF dude, wake up, the HRTs are flying past you at an alarming rate.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 10 Sep 2011, 03:17

kostas22 wrote:Nico Rosberg.

Seriously, WTF dude, wake up, the HRTs are flying past you at an alarming rate.

He had car issues this morning, including his KERS. Nothing worth nominating for RoTR.

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 10 Sep 2011, 03:43

Peter wrote:
kostas22 wrote:Nico Rosberg.

Seriously, WTF dude, wake up, the HRTs are flying past you at an alarming rate.

He had car issues this morning, including his KERS. Nothing worth nominating for RoTR.

Welcome to F1Rejects, where being in a superior car and then being outpaced by the backmarkers is unacceptable (but welcome) no matter the conditions.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 10 Sep 2011, 04:09

Peter wrote:Just saying, This website is F1 Rejects, not GP2 Rejects.

Jules Bianchi is touted as The Next Big Thing by Ferrari. Giedo van der Garde was attempting to secure a seat for this season, and has said that he is speaking to three teams for 2012. Both of them are trying to break into Formula 1, and given that they're at the front end of the GP2 field, there's a good chance they will do it in the near future because there's a spate of drivers - Schumacher, Barrichello, Trulli, etc. - who will be retiring within the next few years. And yet, for the rising stars of open-wheel motorsport, they have a bad qualifying session when they're in contention for the runner-up position in the championship and make lame excuses for their poor performances. That's not very becoming of budding Formula 1 stars.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 10 Sep 2011, 04:15

Captain Hammer wrote:
Peter wrote:Just saying, This website is F1 Rejects, not GP2 Rejects.

Jules Bianchi is touted as The Next Big Thing by Ferrari. Giedo van der Garde was attempting to secure a seat for this season, and has said that he is speaking to three teams for 2012. Both of them are trying to break into Formula 1, and given that they're at the front end of the GP2 field, there's a good chance they will do it in the near future because there's a spate of drivers - Schumacher, Barrichello, Trulli, etc. - who will be retiring within the next few years. And yet, for the rising stars of open-wheel motorsport, they have a bad qualifying session when they're in contention for the runner-up position in the championship and make lame excuses for their poor performances. That's not very becoming of budding Formula 1 stars.

Not to mention Bianchi having more accidents than de Cesaris in the first half of the season :roll:

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 10 Sep 2011, 08:44

Okay, here's a prime candidate:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/94412

No, not the FIA - the teams (*cough*redbull!*cough*) that were willing to ignore Pirelli's camber settings for the sake of a faster lap time, even though they kne wblistering was an issue.

Post by **mario** » 10 Sep 2011, 09:51

Captain Hammer wrote:Okay, here's a prime candidate:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/94412

No, not the FIA - the teams (*cough*redbull!*cough*) that were willing to ignore Pirelli's camber settings for the sake of a faster lap time, even though they kne wblistering was an issue.

That said, Red Bull might still be worried that, according to Ted Kravitz, there were still some signs of blistering this weekend on Vettel's car, even though they have reduced the amount of camber on their tyres following the advice given by Pirelli.

However, it's worth noting that Red Bull aren't the only team suffering from problems - Button was also reporting problems with blistering yesterday (and Hamilton too, I believe), and Pirelli are indicating that blistering could be fairly widespread throughout the field, so perhaps it's a little harsh to single out Red Bull.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 10 Sep 2011, 10:29

If blistering is occuring within the range dictated by Pirelli, then yes - it's a little harsh. But that's not what I was saying. I was pointing out the teams that were willing to ignore Pirelli's advice for the sake of a better lap time despite knowing full well that blistering could be a problem. Obviously someone was doing it if the FIA had to force them to observe Pirelli's parameters.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 10 Sep 2011, 13:15

Red Bull Racing.

Boring, anyone?

Maybe this belongs in the Rantbox thread, but geez... I'm getting sick of this.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 10 Sep 2011, 13:19

The usual nomination: McLaren qualifying suits - they are still not good... and what is with this silly Senna-slogan?

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 10 Sep 2011, 16:42

Captain Hammer wrote:And yet, for the rising stars of open-wheel motorsport, they have a bad qualifying session when they're in contention for the runner-up position in the championship and make lame excuses for their poor performances. That's not very becoming of budding Formula 1 stars.

Is it not? Formula 1 drivers and making excuses for absolutely anything go hand in hand like... Lewis Hamilton and Adrian Sutil.

razta · Post by **razta** » 10 Sep 2011, 18:34

For me, it's Lewis Hamilton, he botched up 3 drivers' hot laps and got P3 in the process! :evil:

Michael's stated it as

Michael Schumacher
“Qualifying today went mostly according to plan. I don’t think we could have taken much more; maybe I could have ended up one place higher. I didn’t have an ideal fast lap as I tried to use the slip stream from Lewis but then he locked up in the second chicane which made me lock up too. However I will be on soft tyres tomorrow which should be better for my race. As our race pace looked quite good yesterday, I was more focusing on the race and trying to use the tyres in the right way. For tomorrow, I will try to get a good start and take it from there.”

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 10 Sep 2011, 18:40

razta wrote:For me, it's Lewis Hamilton, he botched up 3 drivers' hot laps and got P3 in the process!
Michael's stated it as
Michael Schumacher
“Qualifying today went mostly according to plan. I don’t think we could have taken much more; maybe I could have ended up one place higher. I didn’t have an ideal fast lap as I tried to use the slip stream from Lewis but then he locked up in the second chicane which made me lock up too. However I will be on soft tyres tomorrow which should be better for my race. As our race pace looked quite good yesterday, I was more focusing on the race and trying to use the tyres in the right way. For tomorrow, I will try to get a good start and take it from there.”

Surely that's Schumacher's problem if he was trying to catch a tow off Hamilton.

razta · Post by **razta** » 10 Sep 2011, 18:41

fjackdaw wrote:
razta wrote:For me, it's Lewis Hamilton, he botched up 3 drivers' hot laps and got P3 in the process!
Michael's stated it as
Michael Schumacher
“Qualifying today went mostly according to plan. I don’t think we could have taken much more; maybe I could have ended up one place higher. I didn’t have an ideal fast lap as I tried to use the slip stream from Lewis but then he locked up in the second chicane which made me lock up too. However I will be on soft tyres tomorrow which should be better for my race. As our race pace looked quite good yesterday, I was more focusing on the race and trying to use the tyres in the right way. For tomorrow, I will try to get a good start and take it from there.”

Surely that's Schumacher's problem if he was trying to catch a tow off Hamilton.

behind Schumi were Alonso and Massa, who were trying exactly the same thing

Post by **mario** » 10 Sep 2011, 19:01

fjackdaw wrote:
razta wrote:For me, it's Lewis Hamilton, he botched up 3 drivers' hot laps and got P3 in the process!
Michael's stated it as
Michael Schumacher
“Qualifying today went mostly according to plan. I don’t think we could have taken much more; maybe I could have ended up one place higher. I didn’t have an ideal fast lap as I tried to use the slip stream from Lewis but then he locked up in the second chicane which made me lock up too. However I will be on soft tyres tomorrow which should be better for my race. As our race pace looked quite good yesterday, I was more focusing on the race and trying to use the tyres in the right way. For tomorrow, I will try to get a good start and take it from there.”

Surely that's Schumacher's problem if he was trying to catch a tow off Hamilton.

Exactly - if you're following another driver in fairly close company, you have to be prepared for both the benefits and the risks associated with that. Besides, as Schumacher points out, overall it probably would have made relatively little difference to the overall format of the grid - Massa and Alonso probably would have remained roughly where they were, as would Schumacher, so it's probably had very little impact on the race overall.

Captain Hammer wrote:If blistering is occuring within the range dictated by Pirelli, then yes - it's a little harsh. But that's not what I was saying. I was pointing out the teams that were willing to ignore Pirelli's advice for the sake of a better lap time despite knowing full well that blistering could be a problem. Obviously someone was doing it if the FIA had to force them to observe Pirelli's parameters.

The point is that McLaren, for example, seemed to be having a few minor problems despite sticking to the limits that Pirelli had set (or, at the very least, not exceeding them in the way that Red Bull was alleged to). In addition, as others have pointed out, including Eddie Jordan (in a rare moment where he showed off his more technical side), there is also the question of toe angles, which is often interlinked with camber, as that can also have a major impact (and is not being strictly regulated in the way that the camber setting are).

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 10 Sep 2011, 22:21

I do love your essays Mario.

Post by **Londoner** » 11 Sep 2011, 07:51

At the moment, the clear candidate has to be Torro Rosso.

Shadaza · Post by **Shadaza** » 11 Sep 2011, 12:07

Hispania Racing Team.

the Masked Lapwing · Post by **the Masked Lapwing** » 11 Sep 2011, 12:10

Shadaza wrote:Hispania Racing Team.

One year, they have a Monaco-spec aero package. The next, their one by turn 1. Although I think Liuzzi set a record for highest position a HRT has been :lol:

tkcom · Post by **tkcom** » 11 Sep 2011, 12:10

Liuzzi I don't need the entire race distance to make this decision.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 11 Sep 2011, 13:08

Obviously Liuzzi. Although for a split second, he was 6th!!

DOSBoot · Post by **DOSBoot** » 11 Sep 2011, 13:13

Luizzi. This one's a no-brainer.

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 11 Sep 2011, 13:20

Mark webber - Poor start, lame move on Massa and off at Parabolica. Poor weekend

Honourable mention to Martin Brundle I quote "black out the G on his back as red bull gives you wins" truly the lamest pun I have ever heard

Eryx · Post by **Eryx** » 11 Sep 2011, 13:28

Liuzzi for ruining petrov's, roseberg's, barrichello's and Kobi's race.

Webber for doing a stupid move.

Vettel for just boring me xD

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 11 Sep 2011, 13:30

Before jumping on the anti-Liuzzi bandwagon, I want to see a replay of that start - it looked to me like a car forced him onto the grass.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 11 Sep 2011, 13:32

Sauber's gearboxes - robbing a chance of scoring a possible 7th from Perez and a possible 10th from Kobayashi!

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 11 Sep 2011, 13:34

Well, here are some outsider nominations for you:

One Of The Lotus - I don't know who did it, but one of the Lotus cars forced Liuzzi on the grass, therefore being the ultimate cause for this accident.

Pastor Maldonado - his start is really the best start one could hope for in his position, his team mate instead has everything that could go wrong go wrong for him - and it's mostly not his fault - and in the end, he is only one position ahead of him come the finish line. This guy is pretty much secured for 2012, whereas Barrichello is not ... and Williams wonder why nobody takes them seriously anymore.

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 11 Sep 2011, 13:35

Shizuka wrote:Sauber's gearboxes - robbing a chance of scoring a possible 7th from Perez and a possible 10th from Kobayashi!

Seconded

Post by **mario** » 11 Sep 2011, 13:38

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Before jumping on the anti-Liuzzi bandwagon, I want to see a replay of that start - it looked to me like a car forced him onto the grass.

He was, by the looks of things, though it doesn't change the fact that he still took out quite a few drivers - though, looking at that, how did Rubens manage to get down from that kerb after he beached the car on it? Did the stewards push him off the kerb in the end, because then he might be done for outside assistance.

Still, HRT takes this fairly comfortably - asides from Liuzzi's accident, Ricciardo stalling on the grid, before the "did he, didn't he?" question of whether he had retired, and, ultimately, a pointless return to the race (because he finished 14 laps down and therefore ineligible for classification).

the Masked Lapwing · Post by **the Masked Lapwing** » 11 Sep 2011, 13:43

I refuse to nominate HRT, because sending Ricciardo back out was probably the only thing that kept One HD from not showing the race anymore :lol:

Instead, I'd say Sauber's gearboxes. The age of bulletproof reliability, and both of them manage to blow up.

Post by **tommykl** » 11 Sep 2011, 13:49

the Masked Lapwing wrote:I refuse to nominate HRT, because sending Ricciardo back out was probably the only thing that kept One HD from not showing the race anymore

Instead, I'd say Sauber's gearboxes. The age of bulletproof reliability, and both of them manage to blow up.

I'd say gearboxes in general. D'Ambrosio lost second gear on the warm-up lap and fourth gear on lap 1, that's how he retired.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 11 Sep 2011, 13:55

Klon wrote:One Of The Lotus - I don't know who did it, but one of the Lotus cars forced Liuzzi on the grass, therefore being the ultimate cause for this accident.

I disagree. If you look at the playback, he's well around the Lotus and back onto the track, then goes back onto the grass to overtake someone else (a Williams or a Sauber - Kobayashi, I think), which was his own decision, so I think it was definitely Tonio's fault.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVGNrjGXjGI

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 11 Sep 2011, 14:04

Liuzzi - Thanks for making us laugh, Tonio

Webber - sigh....

tc3j3r · Post by **tc3j3r** » 11 Sep 2011, 14:18

Vitantonio Liuzzi for causing the carnage at the start. Dishonourable mention to Webber for causing the collision with Massa.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 11 Sep 2011, 14:24

fjackdaw wrote:
Klon wrote:One Of The Lotus - I don't know who did it, but one of the Lotus cars forced Liuzzi on the grass, therefore being the ultimate cause for this accident.

I disagree. If you look at the playback, he's well around the Lotus and back onto the track, then goes back onto the grass to overtake someone else (a Williams or a Sauber - Kobayashi, I think), which was his own decision, so I think it was definitely Tonio's fault.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVGNrjGXjGI

What happened was Liuzzi moved to the right of the Lotus, partially in line with the grass, and the Lotus (I think it might be Trulli) refused to let him fully on to the track, despite the fact that there was plenty of room to the outside. I think this is at about the braking point for the first corner because it looks like everyone around Liuzzi's slowing down, but because he was on the grass, he's missed the braking point, tries to rejoin but is right behind a Sauber and has to move to avoid it, except that the only place to go is back on the grass. He only touches it slightly, but because he's already too fast he loses control and that triggers the crash. Liuzzi was damned if he did, and damned if he didn't.

Mark Webber and Sauber's gearboxes are my nominations.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 11 Sep 2011, 14:40

Considering that Alonso and Vettel also went to the grass and got away with it... I'm resisting the temptation to nominate Liuzzi.

lostpin · Post by **lostpin** » 11 Sep 2011, 14:45

I think Webber has it this time... mediocre quali and unnecessary collision with Massa. And that wheel lock at Parabolica... that even happens in Rfactor, when you lack the front wing...

He should have seen it coming...

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 11 Sep 2011, 14:52

Webber is very close to winning it for me, for a poor Friday and Saturday, average start, and clumsy crash with Massa. However, that's probably the F1 karma gods paying back Massa for his very similar incident with Hamilton at Fuji in 2008. That's Webber's 3rd bad year in a row at Monza.

However, I have to give it to HRT for one of the most embarrassing starts to a race I've ever seen from a team. One car doesn't move off the grid, and the other causes a multi-car pile-up!