Here we go again...

Post by **Londoner** » 03 Aug 2011, 12:40

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2011/08/03/new-jersey-f1-track-new-york/

Can't see this happening, to be honest.

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 03 Aug 2011, 12:51

FFS F1. Stop with your 'First Bite At The Apple' policy and finance a reform of Watkins Glen's facilities, improve safety there, and there you go, a fantastic New York track.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 03 Aug 2011, 14:46

No, no and no! F1 will ruin the glen.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 03 Aug 2011, 14:56

The only positive thing about this would be the 0.000000000000001 % chance of Zack Ryder giving the winner the trophy. :lol:

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 03 Aug 2011, 16:25

Bernie's greed at work

DOSBoot · Post by **DOSBoot** » 03 Aug 2011, 16:47

It would be interesting to see. But I highly doubt this is going to work.

MigelNansell · Post by **MigelNansell** » 03 Aug 2011, 17:05

Klon wrote:The only positive thing about this would be the 0.000000000000001 % chance of Zack Ryder giving the winner the trophy.

WWWYKI

Post by **mario** » 03 Aug 2011, 18:24

DOSBoot wrote:It would be interesting to see. But I highly doubt this is going to work.

I'd have to agree with you - this idea has come up time and time again, and whilst I do agree that a race in New York does have great potential, the proposals have always been shot down for various reasons, and it's likely that the same thing will happen again.
Incidentally, for those interested in seeing the proposed route, the Wall Street Journal has published this proposed track layout http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 04538.html

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 03 Aug 2011, 22:34

Klon wrote:The only positive thing about this would be the 0.000000000000001 % chance of Zack Ryder giving the winner the trophy.

WOO WOO WOO YOU KNOW IT!

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 03 Aug 2011, 23:31

Does the "again" in the title of the thread possibly be a reference to this?

Ecclesiastes chapter 1 wrote:9 What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
10 Is there anything of which one can say,
“Look! This is something new”?
It was here already, long ago;
it was here before our time.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 04 Aug 2011, 00:33

JeremyMcClean wrote:Bernie's greed at work

Actually, Bernie didn't commission this at all. This is a proposal put together by a group of local businessmen trying to find investors so that they can approach Bernie.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 04 Aug 2011, 00:34

I'd be interested in this, but if they have Justin Bieber handing out victory trophies, i'll GTFO. :evil:

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 04 Aug 2011, 00:40

... Why would they?

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 04 Aug 2011, 01:55

Captain Hammer wrote:... Why would they?

They wouldn't. But didn't you know, it's a new law in most parts of North America to make references to Justin Bieber in order to fill up a thread with feces, context be damned.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 04 Aug 2011, 02:10

Captain Hammer wrote:... Why would they?

Wasn't being serious, but knowing how big of a deal he is in all of North American, it wouldn't be unlikely so as to get some serious attention from having him perform or something.

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 04 Aug 2011, 09:41

Peter wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:... Why would they?

Wasn't being serious, but knowing how big of a deal he is in all of North American, it wouldn't be unlikely so as to get some serious attention from having him perform or something.

Not going to happen. He's Canadian. So having him hand out the trophy at Montreal is more likely.

Post by **tommykl** » 04 Aug 2011, 09:43

DonTirri wrote:
Peter wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:... Why would they?

Wasn't being serious, but knowing how big of a deal he is in all of North American, it wouldn't be unlikely so as to get some serious attention from having him perform or something.

Not going to happen. He's Canadian. So having him hand out the trophy at Montreal is more likely.

I don't think he's intelligent enough to cope with something as abstract as French. The guy didn't even know what German meant.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 04 Aug 2011, 14:43

DonTirri wrote:
Peter wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:... Why would they?

Wasn't being serious, but knowing how big of a deal he is in all of North American, it wouldn't be unlikely so as to get some serious attention from having him perform or something.

Not going to happen. He's Canadian. So having him hand out the trophy at Montreal is more likely.

He has a FAR larger influence on American culture than he does in his home country. People almost always forget he's not American.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 04 Aug 2011, 21:35

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 04 Aug 2011, 22:18

thehemogoblin wrote:

Yes.

Fist pumping is thehemogoblin's main dance move when he goes out.

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 04 Aug 2011, 22:50

This cannot end well...

"Joysey Grahnd Priks"

..."Soh dehr um, gonna be sum-ah, massive trawsur snakes huh, sup wid dat?"

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 07 Aug 2011, 19:38

It would interesting to see it happen, but I wouldn't bet on it. Personally I would have love to see Long Beach become a Formula 1 race again.

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 08 Aug 2011, 03:49

i looked at the route on google earth....it flys right through a residential area. that won't bode well for the people trying to make it happen.
if spa has a problem with spaced out housing, then new york will be much worse.

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 08 Aug 2011, 03:57

nome66 wrote:i looked at the route on google earth....it flys right through a residential area. that won't bode well for the people trying to make it happen.
if spa has a problem with spaced out housing, then new york will be much worse.

It's New York, it's always loud, everywhere.

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 08 Aug 2011, 07:15

Well if an NY race were to happen it could be done logistically as a back to back with Montreal as they are on the border of each other, so I reckon that is where the proposal would aim for really. But I agree, it is not likely to happen, if we had two US gp's in addition to the others, we would see yet more circuits cut, and with the season so far producing good racing at pretty much every circuit that wouldn't be popular lol

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 08 Aug 2011, 08:22

thehemogoblin wrote:

Yes.

Goodness, no. I'd rather have Katy Perry sing the Austrian anthem. :cry:

DOSBoot · Post by **DOSBoot** » 08 Aug 2011, 17:37

Faustus wrote:It would interesting to see it happen, but I wouldn't bet on it. Personally I would have love to see Long Beach become a Formula 1 race again.

Me too. It would be more accessable for those on the West coast. Plus, it was successful back in the 1970's, so I don't see why it wouldn't work now.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 08 Aug 2011, 22:02

DOSBoot wrote:it was successful back in the 1970's, so I don't see why it wouldn't work now.

Because it hosts Indycar and ALMS, and so there's no way Bernie will let it happen.

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 08 Aug 2011, 23:07

Captain Hammer wrote:
DOSBoot wrote:it was successful back in the 1970's, so I don't see why it wouldn't work now.

Because it hosts Indycar and ALMS, and so there's no way Bernie will let it happen.

The point I made in my first (and only) post in this thread. If F1 wants to get some good tracks in places like the US, there's no bathplugging point in building another Tilkedrome when there are already existing good tracks. The US has plenty of them; Watkins Glen, Long Beach, Road America etc. Road America is, well, fine, in the middle of nowhere, which is a massive shame as it's IMO one of the best tracks in the world. But Long Beach and Watkins Glen are ideally situated to hold a race, both have F1 history, and both are synonymous with good racing in the series they've hosted; be it F1, CART, IndyCar, ALMS etc. Watkins Glen already meets the necessary length requirements, be it with or without 'The Boot', while Long Beach only needs a bit of an extension. The 'We Need First Bite At The Apple' policy is starving F1 of good, existing tracks.

DOSBoot · Post by **DOSBoot** » 09 Aug 2011, 02:26

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:
DOSBoot wrote:it was successful back in the 1970's, so I don't see why it wouldn't work now.

Because it hosts Indycar and ALMS, and so there's no way Bernie will let it happen.

The point I made in my first (and only) post in this thread. If F1 wants to get some good tracks in places like the US, there's no bathplugging point in building another Tilkedrome when there are already existing good tracks. The US has plenty of them; Watkins Glen, Long Beach, Road America etc. Road America is, well, fine, in the middle of nowhere, which is a massive shame as it's IMO one of the best tracks in the world. But Long Beach and Watkins Glen are ideally situated to hold a race, both have F1 history, and both are synonymous with good racing in the series they've hosted; be it F1, CART, IndyCar, ALMS etc. Watkins Glen already meets the necessary length requirements, be it with or without 'The Boot', while Long Beach only needs a bit of an extension. The 'We Need First Bite At The Apple' policy is starving F1 of good, existing tracks.

Which is why I thought Long Beach was a logical pick in my opinion.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 09 Aug 2011, 06:24

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:The 'We Need First Bite At The Apple' policy is starving F1 of good, existing tracks.

You point to Watkins Glen as a circuti that could host Formula 1. It can't. Not without a major overhaul - widening the circuit, adding run-off, upgrading pit facilities, and so on. If Formula 1 went to Watkins Glen, it would need so much work that the circuit would become unrecongisable. And then everyone would complain about it, despite being the ones who demanded the sport went there in the first place.

Jordan192 · Post by **Jordan192** » 09 Aug 2011, 07:52

Captain Hammer wrote:You point to Watkins Glen as a circuti that could host Formula 1. It can't. Not without a major overhaul - widening the circuit, adding run-off, upgrading pit facilities, and so on. If Formula 1 went to Watkins Glen, it would need so much work that the circuit would become unrecongisable. And then everyone would complain about it, despite being the ones who demanded the sport went there in the first place.

And it's not just Watkins Glen - Road America, Road Atlanta, Laguna Seca, Sears Point - all would need an equivalent amount of work, equally destructive to those venues as we know them today - Laguna Seca in particular would need a fairly substantial extension added, as it's simply too short in its current form.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 09 Aug 2011, 07:58

Jordan192 wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:You point to Watkins Glen as a circuti that could host Formula 1. It can't. Not without a major overhaul - widening the circuit, adding run-off, upgrading pit facilities, and so on. If Formula 1 went to Watkins Glen, it would need so much work that the circuit would become unrecongisable. And then everyone would complain about it, despite being the ones who demanded the sport went there in the first place.

And it's not just Watkins Glen - Road America, Road Atlanta, Laguna Seca, Sears Point - all would need an equivalent amount of work, equally destructive to those venues as we know them today - Laguna Seca in particular would need a fairly substantial extension added, as it's simply too short in its current form.

I think you're both absolutely right, so the only options would be a new (or newish) track like Austin or something like Barber Motorsport Parks, or a city track, like Long Beach. Unfortunately for the time being the race is tied to IndyCar and the ALMS, but if there was enough money in it, I'm sure Chris Pook and his mob could be persuaded to go back to Formula 1.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 09 Aug 2011, 08:43

What about Infineon Raceway? Or would it be too short.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 09 Aug 2011, 08:50

redbulljack14 wrote:What about Infineon Raceway? Or would it be too short.

Some of the corners are too steep; it's the same problem faced by Laguna Seca. And there's no run-off.

Jordan192 · Post by **Jordan192** » 09 Aug 2011, 10:45

redbulljack14 wrote:What about Infineon Raceway? Or would it be too short.

You'd need to use the infield loop to get it long enough (and all that would need proper runoff) and even then it's only just long enough (the minimum is 3.5 km, the prefence is for nearer 5). You'd need to completely remodel turn 11 and the pit entry (you could potentially use the 11a cutoff, but then you lose half the pitlane) as well as building a whole new pit building/media complex etc.
You'd also have a layout with zero usable overtaking points for F1.

Laguna Seca could at least be spared the extension (coming in at 3.6km), but would still need (at least) a monstrous amount of new runoff and a new pit complex.

(edited due to actually doing some research on minimum circuit lengths)

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 09 Aug 2011, 20:16

(Had to convert 3.5 km to miles to get to grip with that - 3.5km = 2.18 miles)

So Monaco is right on the cusp (barely) of being long enough! Or was the limit set as Monaco being the shortest to accomodate it?

Jordan192 · Post by **Jordan192** » 09 Aug 2011, 21:06

At 3.2km (Wikipedia measurement, admittedly), Monaco actually isn't long enough for F1, and wouldn't be certified if it hadn't previously held races. For fear of stating the obvious, though, it's kind of a special case.

APPENDIX O TO THE INTERNATIONAL SPORTING CODE - Procedures for the Recognition of Motor Racing Circuits

Supplement 2 covers the minimum lengths. I couldn't find anything about maximum gradients, other than in relation to banking (not more than 10%, article 7.5) or run-off areas relative to the road surface(7.6). I could find some limitations on the minimum vertical radii of gradient changes, though (Article 7.4).

I'll admit I just skimmed it - I couldn't quite bring myself to read the whole thing end to end.

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 10 Aug 2011, 00:57

soooo talladega and bristol are out of the picture?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 10 Aug 2011, 09:16

nome66 wrote:soooo talladega and bristol are out of the picture?

And pretty much every single oval that exists, barring Indianapolis, I assume.

And no Martinsville. :cry: