Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

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ADx_Wales
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Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by ADx_Wales »

Looking on the West Surrey Racing site, a team that were known for employing young drivers who would then go onto greater things in F1, Aryton Senna and Mika Hakkinen being the most obvious ones, but also Allan McNish, Eddie Irvine and also a few that dont spring instantly to mind as I write this, however the WSR "Archive" Gallery contains NONE of their F3 exploits, and only focuses on their last few years in the British Touring Car Championship.

So I've decided to start a thread along the lines of Iconic F1 Liveries, for instance the Marlboro McLaren livery...

Image

...that Mika Hakkinen's (1990 British F3) chariot was dressed in.

Another WSR Alumnus was Indy Lights regular Derek Higgins...

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...Here He is in the 1990 British F3 Series driving for Paul Stewart Racing (Jackie's son also being his team-mate), He also took part in 1989 in the ever iconic Benneton scheme of the era, for some reason google images are awash with plenty of Benetton pictures, but not of Higgins' 89 car.

I'm sure you will all have better, or even more recent liveries than the handful I've discovered.

Oh, and almost forgot about this...

Image

...just wow.
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by tommykl »

ADx_Wales wrote:Image

This car is absolutely amazing :o
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by The Mountain Man »

Image

A selection of Wankel-engined Norton NRS588's sporting the iconic JPS black-gold livery.
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by ADx_Wales »

Image

Iconic? Surley everyone knew what a Zakspeed F1 car looked like, Same can be said for Ligier.

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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by shinji »

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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by Faustus »

That's Jeremie Dufour in the blue Dallara, I think. He was very highly rated in karts and F3 and it was thought that he would definitely be an F1 driver. One of the guys that I worked with at Arrows was his race engineer in British F3 in 1995 and thought he was the nuts.
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by FMecha »

Various F3000 stuff I found in Flickriver, most of them imitate iconic F1 liveries.

Plus:
Image
This is Nick Heidfeld's Lola West Competition F3000 car.
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by ADx_Wales »

Image

Could it be said that FIRST were trying to mimic the Williams livery or was it total coincidence?
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by WeirdKerr »

FMecha wrote:Various F3000 stuff I found in Flickriver, most of them imitate iconic F1 liveries.

Plus:
Image
This is Nick Heidfeld's Lola West Competition F3000 car.


Interesting to see that in 1985 older F1 cars were used in the F3000 championship.......
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by Faustus »

WeirdKerr wrote:
FMecha wrote:Various F3000 stuff I found in Flickriver, most of them imitate iconic F1 liveries.

Plus:
Image
This is Nick Heidfeld's Lola West Competition F3000 car.


Interesting to see that in 1985 older F1 cars were used in the F3000 championship.......


That's Nick Heidfeld's Lola from 1999 and the photo is from the Donington Museum.
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by dinizintheoven »

Faustus wrote:
WeirdKerr wrote:Interesting to see that in 1985 older F1 cars were used in the F3000 championship.......

That's Nick Heidfeld's Lola from 1999 and the photo is from the Donington Museum.

WeirdKerr did what I did and looked in the link. 70-odd pictures down, there's this. Captioned:

Lamberto Leoni. PMC Motorsport Williams FW08 Cosworth F3000. International F3000 Championship. Silverstone 1985.

It looks modified (and maybe shortened?) in comparison to the F1 machine as used in 1983. Certainly the twin airboxes have been removed and the sidepods have been lengthened.
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by dr-baker »

The Mountain Man wrote:A selection of Wankel-engined Norton NRS588's sporting the iconic JPS black-gold livery.

Wankel-engined bikes? I never knew such a thing was done or even possible...
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by Faustus »

dinizintheoven wrote:
Faustus wrote:
WeirdKerr wrote:Interesting to see that in 1985 older F1 cars were used in the F3000 championship.......

That's Nick Heidfeld's Lola from 1999 and the photo is from the Donington Museum.

WeirdKerr did what I did and looked in the link. 70-odd pictures down, there's this. Captioned:

Lamberto Leoni. PMC Motorsport Williams FW08 Cosworth F3000. International F3000 Championship. Silverstone 1985.

It looks modified (and maybe shortened?) in comparison to the F1 machine as used in 1983. Certainly the twin airboxes have been removed and the sidepods have been lengthened.


There were Tyrrell 012s and Williams FW08Cs on the grid for the then-new F3000 championship. They seemed like a perfect idea, since the cars were reasonably competitive and were designed to fit the mandated engines, but unfortunately they were outclassed, especially by the new March 85B and Ralt RT20. The Williams was a good 3 years old and the Tyrrell was a year old, both with aluminium monocoques, who were pretty worn by then and not a match for the new carbon-chassis cars.
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by madmark1974 »

dr-baker wrote:
The Mountain Man wrote:A selection of Wankel-engined Norton NRS588's sporting the iconic JPS black-gold livery.

Wankel-engined bikes? I never knew such a thing was done or even possible...


Oh yes, and they had ridiculous straight-line performance, such as on this clip below, just watch 'em fly along the straight at my home track, Snetterton (about 40 seconds in) ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBg86bjr8l0

Needless to say, the regulations got changed to remove their advantage pretty quickly ...
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by dr-baker »

madmark1974 wrote:
dr-baker wrote:
The Mountain Man wrote:A selection of Wankel-engined Norton NRS588's sporting the iconic JPS black-gold livery.

Wankel-engined bikes? I never knew such a thing was done or even possible...


Oh yes, and they had ridiculous straight-line performance, such as on this clip below, just watch 'em fly along the straight at my home track, Snetterton (about 40 seconds in) ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBg86bjr8l0

Needless to say, the regulations got changed to remove their advantage pretty quickly ...

Gordon Bennett, that is much more impressive than an F1 car with both DRS and KERS overtaking one without. But it did seem not as good in the following corners. I would love to see alternative engines in F1. Wankels v. turbodiesels v. electric (the losers) v. biofuelled v. normally-aspirated petrols.
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by eytl »

I can think of a few Australian examples ...

There was Chris Alajajian's F3 car:
Image

There also used to be a Formula Holden car (an ex-F3000 Reynard, I think) that was done up in the Rothmans Williams scheme.

I also recall Peter Hills' Ford Mondeo at the Super Touring Bathurst 1000 in 1997. He was on the lookout for sponsorship and so he planted a question mark on the side of his car, reminiscent of what Williams had done at the no-tobacco-sponsorship French GP earlier in the year.
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by ADx_Wales »

Question Marks? How could you mention Williams without including the AGSs of 1990? :P
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by Yannick »

When and at the hands of whom did that Leyton House Porsche (is it a Porsche?) race?
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by Pointrox »

Yannick wrote:When and at the hands of whom did that Leyton House Porsche (is it a Porsche?) race?

The car raced in 1988 24h of Le Mans. The drivers were Kris Nissen, Harald Grohs and George Fouche.

Check out Team Astromega's F3000 car with Minardi M02 livery.
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by Faustus »

Yannick wrote:When and at the hands of whom did that Leyton House Porsche (is it a Porsche?) race?


It is indeed a Porsche, a Kremer Racing Porsche 962 CK6, a modified 962, with different aerodynamics and an aluminium honeycomb chassis from Thompson Prototypes. Judging by the background, the photo is either from Laguna Seca (the car has run in the HSR championship) or Spa-Francorchamps (the car has run in the Europe-based Group C Revival in the last 3 years).
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Yannick wrote:The car raced in 1988 24h of Le Mans. The drivers were Kris Nissen, Harald Grohs and George Fouche.


Sorry to be pedantic, but it didn't. This chassis was permanently based in Japan and never raced in Europe before 1991. I know this car, and I mean the exact chassis in the photo, from when I worked in the Group C Revival Championship. The car you mention is a different chassis that was never converted to the different aerodynamics.
This car was refurbished by Kremer Racing in 2007 and restored to as-near-as-original-as-possible condition and it looks stunning.
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by tommykl »

It's definitely Laguna Seca. There's no point of the Spa circuit that looks like that.
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by dr-baker »

Pointrox wrote:Check out Team Astromega's F3000 car with Minardi M02 livery.
Image

And the car on its other side looks like a similar livery to a 1994 Ligier. And good on Phoenix on being an F3000 sponsor. Now why couldn't you have put the F1 Rejects logo there instead of your own name, Phoenix? :roll: :P
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by Pointrox »

Faustus wrote:Sorry to be pedantic, but it didn't. This chassis was permanently based in Japan and never raced in Europe before 1991. I know this car, and I mean the exact chassis in the photo, from when I worked in the Group C Revival Championship. The car you mention is a different chassis that was never converted to the different aerodynamics.
This car was refurbished by Kremer Racing in 2007 and restored to as-near-as-original-as-possible condition and it looks stunning.

Well, the one on the Laguna Seca photo didn't, but the one below (#11) sure did:
Image
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by Cynon »

I'd say McLaren's livery was used on Roger Penske's cars in CART and in the IRL, but I've always associated that paintjob with Penske (he had it longer than McLaren did I think).

Then there was this car, which reject master Dave Kudrave drove and promptly binned in New Hampshire in 1992. Antonio Ferrari's Euromotorsport fielded the entry;

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Image
Image
Image

Unrelated, but this was from the first ever IRL race, just to show how much of a reject master Kudrave was...

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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by Jeroen Krautmeir »

Cynon wrote:I'd say McLaren's livery was used on Roger Penske's cars in CART and in the IRL, but I've always associated that paintjob with Penske (he had it longer than McLaren did I think).

Nowadays I think that too, but that Marlboro livery was rather omnipresent, wasn't it?
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by Dan B »

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:
Cynon wrote:I'd say McLaren's livery was used on Roger Penske's cars in CART and in the IRL, but I've always associated that paintjob with Penske (he had it longer than McLaren did I think).

Nowadays I think that too, but that Marlboro livery was rather omnipresent, wasn't it?

It really was everywhere; the only place I don't think it was used was in NASCAR. And really, I associated Penske with McLaren for a long while because of that livery...probably fueled my dislike for Penske to see those cars, among other things, as I was (and really still not) a McLaren fan.

Besides, wasn't it Alfa Romeo who had that livery first?
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by Cynon »

Dan B wrote:
Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:
Cynon wrote:I'd say McLaren's livery was used on Roger Penske's cars in CART and in the IRL, but I've always associated that paintjob with Penske (he had it longer than McLaren did I think).

Nowadays I think that too, but that Marlboro livery was rather omnipresent, wasn't it?

It really was everywhere; the only place I don't think it was used was in NASCAR. And really, I associated Penske with McLaren for a long while because of that livery...probably fueled my dislike for Penske to see those cars, among other things, as I was (and really still not) a McLaren fan.

Besides, wasn't it Alfa Romeo who had that livery first?


I don't think it was in the NHRA or the World of Outlaws either, but I might be mistaken. I didn't follow either series but the few WoO races I've seen, no Marlboro cars. NHRA... kind of the same. NASCAR was not really the place for Marlboro to hang around... especially when Winston (awesome name for a series... NASCAR Winston Cup) held the title sponsorship...

Didn't Alfa have the Marlboro livery in reverse colors? Red with the white triangle stripe?

Roger Penske put the red Marlboro stripe in blue for Mobil 1 sponsorship when they ran Paul Tracy in the third part time car in 1991 and 1992.

Also, should we bother mentioning all the Red Bull paintschemes/liveries (aside from their silver car in NASCAR)?
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by tommykl »

Alfa Romeo and McLaren had the exact same livery, but Alfa had the company name written on the side. This situation is what brought the rule stating that a livery can not be used by two teams at the same time.

Also, is Johnny Parsons related in any way to Johnnie Parsons?
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by Cynon »

tommykl wrote:Also, is Johnny Parsons related in any way to Johnnie Parsons?


Yes. Johnnie is the father of Johnny (making him Johnny Parsons Jr.). Johnnie Senior won the Indy 500 in 1950 and is the only person to have his name misspelled on the Borg-Warner Trophy (Johnny instead of Johnnie). Johnny Parsons Jr. is the one who competed in the IRL. It basically resurrected his career, which had been dead for quite some time.
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by mario »

Dan B wrote:
Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:
Cynon wrote:I'd say McLaren's livery was used on Roger Penske's cars in CART and in the IRL, but I've always associated that paintjob with Penske (he had it longer than McLaren did I think).

Nowadays I think that too, but that Marlboro livery was rather omnipresent, wasn't it?

It really was everywhere; the only place I don't think it was used was in NASCAR. And really, I associated Penske with McLaren for a long while because of that livery...probably fueled my dislike for Penske to see those cars, among other things, as I was (and really still not) a McLaren fan.

Besides, wasn't it Alfa Romeo who had that livery first?

Well, the Marlboro red and white colours first appeared on BRM's works cars in 1972, along with the Iso Marlboro cars run by Frank Williams, before they switched to McLaren in 1974. Here, for example, is a Marlboro liveried BRM P180:
Image

And here is an example of the Mclaren M23 using the same colour scheme
Image

So, the association between McLaren and Marlboro, and the design of the livery as a whole, was established several years before Alfa Romeo entered a works outfit under those colours.
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by midgrid »

F3000 is a rich hunting ground for F1 junior teams, complete with imitation liveries.

Red Bull (Ricardo Maurício)
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Arrows (Mark Webber)
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by MinardiFan95 »

eytl wrote:I also recall Peter Hills' Ford Mondeo at the Super Touring Bathurst 1000 in 1997. He was on the lookout for sponsorship and so he planted a question mark on the side of his car, reminiscent of what Williams had done at the no-tobacco-sponsorship French GP earlier in the year.


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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by ADx_Wales »

Image

Stewart's racing team actually began almost a decade before their F1 attempt, here is their F3 team with the F1 livery.
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by Cynon »

Arie Luyendyk's 1988 IndyCar:

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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by stupot94 »

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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by nome66 »

here's an Irish formula libre that looks like an old williams chassis
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by midgrid »

Is that an ex-Marco Apicella F3000 car? If so, it's the original livery, but with the Williams-specific sponsors added later on.
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by Faustus »

midgrid wrote:Is that an ex-Marco Apicella F3000 car? If so, it's the original livery, but with the Williams-specific sponsors added later on.


It can't be. That's a Reynard 93D or at worst a 92D with the 93D aero kit (quite common in 93 because a lot of teams didn't like the revised suspension on the 93D) and by then Apicella was driving a Dome in the Formula Nippon championship.
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by Cynon »

Image

Posted because of the Infinti engine. :D
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Re: Iconic F1 Liveries in other Racing Series.

Post by Jeroen Krautmeir »

Tomas Scheckter's helmet looks like Kenny Brack's. Or is it supposed to be the other way around?
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