Grand Prix Rejects

Kimi wins, but the real winner is Fisichella. First points for Force India with style!

I think this probably counts as the most exciting race all season. Just completely off-the-wall, with plenty of madness to go around. The racing action was exciting as well, with the points well fought over. Fantastic work by Fisichella, obviously - nail-biting pit stops.

Who saw Kovalainen on the grass after the finish line? Good race, Fisi was faster and could have won if aerodynamics allowed you to overtake. Even Luca kept Trulli behind him because of KERS, shows you how hard it is to overtake.

What a crazy race! We should have more of this madness for the rest of the season..

btw, kudos to the Barrichello's Mercedes engine, it can run without oil, like a VW Beetle, hihi... and that fire in the pits... cool.

Was Kovalainen doing a Brambilla and crashing after the finish line?

Anyway, that was a strange race. It wasn't particularly exciting, but it was intriguing, if just for the novelty of Force India coming second. Where does that leave us with the championship though?

shinji wrote:Was Kovalainen doing a Brambilla and crashing after the finish line?

I might be wrong but I think he was just picking up some debris on his tyres to add weight to his car. At Spa they don't do a full cool down lap after the race.

Well done Fizzi, a well deserved 2nd place that would have been a win had it not been for the safety car & kers combination. What does he do now though? Does he switch to Ferrari (presuming he has been given the option) or stick with Force India hoping that this race was not just a one off.

He didn't crash, there was a brief shot of him on the grass after he'd crossed the finish line. Just thinking, Kimi ran wide at turn 1 and gained positions, is that strictly allowed??? I don't want any controversy, just a thought though.

Did Fisi not attempt to take Kimi for the win in hopes 0f being in a "Red" seat @ Monza?

Kimi had every intension of using the run-off for the exit of Corner 1 on Lap 1, smart...

Debaser wrote:He didn't crash, there was a brief shot of him on the grass after he'd crossed the finish line. Just thinking, Kimi ran wide at turn 1 and gained positions, is that strictly allowed??? I don't want any controversy, just a thought though.

It is although I'm not quite sure why when at other tracks they would have your head for a thing like that. Personally I think it is better that you are allowed to take to it because it means penalties don't have to be dished out all of the time.

Debaser wrote:He didn't crash, there was a brief shot of him on the grass after he'd crossed the finish line. Just thinking, Kimi ran wide at turn 1 and gained positions, is that strictly allowed??? I don't want any controversy, just a thought though.

Yeah I noticed that he ran wide and went from 5-6th to 3rd, Raikonnen was pushing it really aggressive on the 1st lap, at one moment I thought that he would receive a drive-through or something like that...

Debaser wrote:He didn't crash, there was a brief shot of him on the grass after he'd crossed the finish line. Just thinking, Kimi ran wide at turn 1 and gained positions, is that strictly allowed??? I don't want any controversy, just a thought though.

I'm not entirely sure he gained anything from it, he basically made a significantly longer distance. I'm glad the stewards have kept quiet so far, last year was a disgrace.

And once again Button gets lucky, although this time you can't really blame him for what happened to his race - we'll never know how he would have done had Grosjean not tagged him. I fancy he would have scored some points. At the moment this seems to be the title race nobody is able to get a grip on!

Brilliant performance by Fisichella, and Ferrari's driver line-up problems for next year become ever more acute - three into one doesn't go.

I just wish they didn't have KERS, or that Raikkonen hadn't been able to get up to second so quickly - then we could probably have seen Fisichella win.

Can't wait for Monza!

Shinj, you gonna take Force India down from your pride and joy? XD

I hope the Indian hackers don't try anything to celebrate

Come on!! This is THE BEST track on Formula 1 calender. There were more overtaking on lap 1, infact by the time cars reached Eua Rouge on lap 1, there were more overtaking than we saw at Valencia. Plus lots of moves up and down the grid almost for entire race.

And I heard that Spa wants to alternate races with Nurburgring because Bernie's fees are too high. That will be a disaster altogether. We need track like this. Bernie should be an idiot if he takes this track of calender just for money.

BTW Congrats for Kimi on winning.
If it was not for KERS, then I'm sure Fisichella would have got past him. Anyway 2nd place is good enough for Force India to silence all those who were bashing them. Finally they have scored points.

Solid result for BMW too.
Also would like to mention about Rubens Barichello. After problems at start again, he fell to what, 15th. Then he overtook atleast 6 cars on track to take well deserving 7th. Again if not for Heikki with KERS he would have been higher up.

And surprising Mercedes engine problem. Is that due to start line problems causing engines to over rev or is it Rubens sitting in other cars hot air for too long. Long time since Mercedes engines had such big problems during race. Infact it was in 2006, I think.

kimi won. can i haz vodka?

And here we have a demotivated yesterday's champion who is just about to get fired and replaced by another champion (who is only doing bad at the moment because his car is crap), fetching a win by a mere second from a very demotivated veteran who got in the pole with a car that would be very lucky to score points in any race.

Wait, what????

To be serious, this race was just about perfect for me. Kimi finally breaking his and the team's winless streak from 6th on the grid, a FORCE INDIA on the pole, driven by a veteran who has been bashed since '08 and coming in second in the race having just about the same race pace as Kimi, Kovalainen taking a nice 6th from 15th on the grid, and even our half-Finn Rosberg fetching the last point despite all the trouble he had with the car this weekend. A very, very good race, it's been a long time since I last enjoyed a F1 race this much!

Nuppiz wrote:And here we have a demotivated yesterday's champion who is just about to get fired and replaced by another champion (who is only doing bad at the moment because his car is crap), fetching a win by a mere second from a very demotivated veteran who got in the pole with a car that would be very lucky to score points in any race.

Wait, what????

To be serious, this race was just about perfect for me. Kimi finally breaking his and the team's winless streak from 6th on the grid, a FORCE INDIA on the pole, driven by a veteran who has been bashed since '08 and coming in second in the race having just about the same race pace as Kimi, Kovalainen taking a nice 6th from 15th on the grid, and even our half-Finn Rosberg fetching the last point despite all the trouble he had with the car this weekend. A very, very good race, it's been a long time since I last enjoyed a F1 race this much!

Post of the month. Thank you very much!

Yeah, thoroughly enjoyed that one. Martin Brundle (commentating) seemed genuninely really chuffed that the Force India actually had greater race pace than the Ferrari!! Was such a pity that he KERS'd him on the run up to Les Combes. Fisi would have walked away with it if it wasn't for that! Saying that, if the Ferrari didn't have KERS it maybe faster over a whole lap. We'll never know.

Also, did anyone else notice Stefano Domenicali briefly talking on the phone when he stepped on the podium? When I saw that, I already joked that he cancelled Alonso's contract for next year. To be realistic, it was probably just a congratulating call from Montezemolo or suchlike.

E: And thanks Carlos for praising my post!

Nuppiz wrote:Also, did anyone else notice Stefano Domenicali briefly talking on the phone when he stepped on the podium? When I saw that, I already joked that he cancelled Alonso's contract for next year. To be realistic, it was probably just a congratulating call from Montezemolo or suchlike.

E: And thanks Carlos for praising my post!

im guessing it may have been from Massa?

Nuppiz wrote:Also, did anyone else notice Stefano Domenicali briefly talking on the phone when he stepped on the podium? When I saw that, I already joked that he cancelled Alonso's contract for next year. To be realistic, it was probably just a congratulating call from Montezemolo or suchlike.

E: And thanks Carlos for praising my post!

No worries.

Just re-watching the race on iPlayer. Has anyone else noticed Red Bull was back on the older, more elegant nosecone for Spa? Toro Rosso were on the Silverstone-spec, wider nose. Odd, that.

Probably because Toro Rosso have no understanding of aerodynamics.

A much better race than most this year, and I was delighted for Force India, even though I think they should have won (more on that to follow), for whom Fisichella drove a superb race in my opinion, and had it not been for the safety car, I don't think Raikkonen would have got by.

Some good drives too from the BMW drivers and Kovalainen, and Alonso went much better than I thought he would at this race until his damaged front wheel gave up (those spinners are so silly, and I think that banning them for next year is an excellent decision).

Sutil was unlucky again (how many times does he get tangled up in minor incidents), while Button was incredibly lucky to keep such a substantial lead after going out on lap one. He had a shocking weekend, yet nobody capitalised. Barrichello must be cursing that anti-stall. That's three times he has had that problem now.

It wasn't a classic Spa race, but it was good overall, and there was some overtaking, both from KERS and non-KERS cars alike. Still, you get that at proper circuits (Valencia take note).

So, back to the start, and Force India not winning. In my opinion Raikkonen is exceptionally lucky to have won this race.

First, he should have been penalised in my view for deliberately driving off the circuit with all four wheels to drive around other cars at the start. This was intentional, he didn't have to do it, yet the stewards let him get away with it. If you do that at a chicane and gain an advantage you have to give the places back or you get a penalty, why should it be different for any other corner? Of course the simplest solution is to fill it with gravel for next year's race, and I hope they do, since that short cut needs to be stopped.

Second, he went off the road, and was rammed by Kubica. How that didn't puncture his tyre I don't know, and he was very fortunate that Kubica didn't just plow into the back of his car.

Third, the arrival of the safety car gave him the chance to get close enough to Fisichella to be able to pass him using KERS. Had it not been for that, I don't think he would ever have been close enough to make that move, and Fisichella would have won.

Three huge pieces of luck for Raikkonen then, so I don't think he deserved to win.

As for comments saying he is 'back', I still don't agree. This is his favourite track, he always goes well here, and did last year when he was nowhere for much of the rest of the season. If he drives that well in all the remaining races this year, then he may convince me that he has improved, otherwise I just don't buy it all.

Should Räikkönen then had to squeeze himself in a place where there was no room left? I just watched the race start again from YouTube and there really isn't any much room on the racing line and he had nowhere else to go. And, he returned to the position where he was when coming into the first corner, battling with Trulli and Heidfeld. You might denounce me because I'm a Finn and looking at the situation from a Finnish point of view, but I assure you that I would have said the same thing had it been Trulli or Kubica or anyone else on the grid.

And, even if Kimi had a bit of luck here, he surely deserves it after all of that bad luck he has suffered during his F1 career. Or am I again Fennofiling?

Sorry if I sounded a bit aggressive here, I didn't mean that, wasn't meaning that first but then just let my keyboard go 'up in flames'. It's fair enough if you think what you think. The start will probably be a target of a lot of debate for the next few days. Everyone, watch this (before it's taken off the Internet) and make your own decisions.

Nuppiz wrote:Should Räikkönen then had to squeeze himself in a place where there was no room left? I just watched the race start again from YouTube and there really isn't any much room on the racing line and he had nowhere else to go.

I've just watched it again, and I think he could have put two wheels on the concrete, and two on that green strip, and turned in at a tighter angle without getting anywhere near another car, and he would not have gained so much time. Being able to pause You Tube is wonderful, and it clearly shows how much of an advantage he gained in terms of speed up the hill, and he didn't exactly check his mirrors before rejoining the track either, so having seen it again, it looks even worse for him than it did when I saw it it live I'm afraid.

You might denounce me because I'm a Finn and looking at the situation from a Finnish point of view, but I assure you that I would have said the same thing had it been Trulli or Kubica or anyone else on the grid.

I won't denounce you at all, you're entitled to view it differently.

And, even if Kimi had a bit of luck here, he surely deserves it after all of that bad luck he has suffered during his F1 career. Or am I again Fennofiling?

I think he had quite a bit of luck winning the 2007 title to be honest. Hamilton and Alonso were so busy trying to beat each other that they forgot about Raikkonen and let him slip in at the last minute.

Sorry if I sounded a bit aggressive here, I didn't mean that, wasn't meaning that first but then just let my keyboard go 'up in flames'.

I thought you were very polite actually .

Nuppiz wrote:Should Räikkönen then had to squeeze himself in a place where there was no room left? I just watched the race start again from YouTube and there really isn't any much room on the racing line and he had nowhere else to go. And, he returned to the position where he was when coming into the first corner, battling with Trulli and Heidfeld. You might denounce me because I'm a Finn and looking at the situation from a Finnish point of view, but I assure you that I would have said the same thing had it been Trulli or Kubica or anyone else on the grid.

And, even if Kimi had a bit of luck here, he surely deserves it after all of that bad luck he has suffered during his F1 career. Or am I again Fennofiling?

Sorry if I sounded a bit aggressive here, I didn't mean that, wasn't meaning that first but then just let my keyboard go 'up in flames'. It's fair enough if you think what you think. The start will probably be a target of a lot of debate for the next few days. Everyone, watch this (before it's taken off the Internet) and make your own decisions.

No way. Kimi deliberately used a completely different circuit to the rest of the field at the first corner, in order to get an advantage. It should not be allowed.

Well, I am a Finn, and I look through stricly blue and white glasses.

And I'm sick and bathplug tired of everyone dissing Kimi, simply because it seems to be the "in" thing now.

We can argue that he coulda avoided going out there, we can argue he did it intentionally to gain an advantage...


But the bottom line is: The stewards didnt penalize him, thus it was legal.

Sure, Giancarlo didn't win, BOO bathplug HOO. For the last three races Räikkönen has been getting better and better, three consecutive podiums, one a piece ON A CAR THAT HASN'T SEEN ANY bathplug DEVELOPMENT SINCE GERMANY/HUNGARY And yet you keep saying he's rubbish and should be replaced by alonso and all that other crap a lot of you bathplug been spewin.

I'm sick an tired of it. Fact remains that he won, Giancarlo didn't. Deal with it and stop chastising Kimi for doing what every racer should do, everything he can within the rules to win.

And I repeat my point from earlier: He wasnt penalized, THUS IT WASN'T AGAINST THE RULES.

Its easy for you to say what the stewards should or shouldnt do, when in reality you got no bathplug clue on what goes on behind the curtains

And for any mods who sees this as overly insultive and flammatory, feel free to delete it. Atleast I got to vent my bent up feelings.

EDIT: Rewording a bit to clarify a thought.

DonTirri wrote:Well, I am a Finn, and I look through stricly blue and white glasses.

And I'm sick and bathplug tired of everyone dissing Kimi, simply because it seems to be the "in" thing now.

We can argue that he coulda avoided going out there, we can argue he did it intentionally to gain an advantage...


But the bottom line is: The stewards didnt penalize him, thus it was legal.

Sure, Giancarlo didn't win, BOO bathplug HOO. For the last three races Räikkönen has been getting better and better, three consecutive podiums, one a piece ON A CAR THAT HASN'T SEEN ANY bathplug DEVELOPMENT SINCE GERMANY/HUNGARY And yet you keep saying he's rubbish and should be replaced by alonso and all that other crap a lot of you bathplug been spewin.

I'm sick an tired of it. Fact remains that he won, Giancarlo didn't. Deal with it and stop chastising Kimi for doing what every racer should do, everything he can within the rules to win.

And I repeat my point from earlier: He wasnt penalized, THUS IT WASN'T AGAINST THE RULES.

Its easy for you to say whats illegal or legal from behind your keyboards when in reality you know jack shite about what goes behind the curtains.

And for any mods who sees this as overly insultive and flammatory, feel free to delete it. Atleast I got to vent my bent up feelings.

Totally and utterly agree.

And now you'll have to delete two posts.

May I remind everyone that Kimi did the same thing last year, and wasn't penelised? There is a precedent, people are allowed to do that on the first lap.

...still have to wonder if Fisi held back for the "Red" seat next race. He caught up to Kimi after their 2'nd stops, timed @ 4.5 secs behind (@ start/finish line) on their outlap, and was then right behind Kimi on the exit of Aux Rouge (again, and again, and again...). Was it really all to KERS?

Might also help VJ's outstanding engine bill financing be eaisier going...

johnston21 wrote:...still have to wonder if Fisi held back for the "Red" seat next race. He caught up to Kimi after their 2'nd stops, timed @ 4.5 secs behind (@ start/finish line) on their outlap, and was then right behind Kimi on the exit of Aux Rouge (again, and again, and again...). Was it really all to KERS?

Might also help VJ's outstanding engine bill financing be eaisier going...

Okay, now thats just graspin for straws. Kimi won fair and square, get over it

DonTirri wrote:And I repeat my point from earlier: He wasnt penalized, THUS IT WASN'T AGAINST THE RULES.

I might not like your entire post, but I agree with this. It's a bit like people watching soccer and discussing the referee. It was much worse last year when Hamilton was penalised, and the year Schumacher was penalised because the bottom of his wooden board had worn 2mm too much. I hate both situations - interventionism for the sake of it, and minute-made technicalities.

I also hate the idea that the WMSC might be investigating about Nelsinho's Singapore last year. One of these days, they'll try to take Schumacher's first Championship away from him because of that Adelaide incident, and will investigate if Fangio was using doping in the Nurburgring in 1956 (which they all were, because it was legal back then).

Stuff is decided on the track, not on the stewards' desk after the race was over. Penalty for Webber because of pushing Barrichello in the Nurburgring? Fine, because it was given during the race. Penalty today for unsafe release? Again OK, because it was during the race. Minutes before we watched Ferrari keep Kimi stopped, during his pit stop, to avoid the unsafe release, although he was fighting for the lead.

Every time a decision is made after the race is over, there's a lot of sour grapes and conspiracy theories. I want to see the podium celebrations and believe that's that, unless someone finds out the engine has sprouted a couple of turbos nobody has noticed before, or the car is 10kg below the limit.

Kimi won on an inferior, slower car. He deserves it.

About KERS, a comment: everyone pointed and laughed when McLaren and Ferrari kept the thing and faced the task of optimizing it. Other couldn't handle it - money, number of engineers, whatever. Renault and BMW actually dropped the thing, in order to get a quick performance boost (which wasn't that much), thereby compromising their future performance. McLaren and Ferrari deserve to get the profit of their courageous and difficult decision, even if they hated the thing themselves and only stuck to it begrudgingly. KERS is here to stay, I think. FOTA will backtrack. And it might just be the thing that makes a champion out of our Jens after all.

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:May I remind everyone that Kimi did the same thing last year, and wasn't penelised? There is a precedent, people are allowed to do that on the first lap.

It's a bit questionable, but this comes from the simple fact that those run-off areas exist in the first place. Kimi wasn't the only one who capitalized on running off (remember how Sutil past Badoer? He used the run-off area). It's even more questionable since I can't forget last years decision to punish Hamilton for cutting the chicane and doing an overtake move on the next curve. The circumstances were different, true, but essentially two things happened: 1. a driver didn't follow the exact course of the track 2. gained an advantage by doing that.

I'm not saying that Kimi didn't deserve his victory. This was one of his better races and proves that he still has it, no matter what. What I'm not sure about is the true nature of the regulations and how are they interpreted on a driver to driver basis. And those run-offs... Spa used to look so much better with those gravel traps, didn't it?

Ross Prawn wrote:
No way. Kimi deliberately used a completely different circuit to the rest of the field at the first corner, in order to get an advantage. It should not be allowed.

Didn't he do something simillar in Silverstone too?

Yet again I watched the video on YouTube, Barrichello (or Button) did the same thing, and so did Badoer.

lostpin wrote:It's even more questionable since I can't forget last years decision to punish Hamilton for cutting the chicane and doing an overtake move on the next curve. The circumstances were different, true, but essentially two things happened: 1. a driver didn't follow the exact course of the track 2. gained an advantage by doing that.

The major difference in those two circumstances was that Hamilton's deviation shortened the distance he would have to do to complete a lap. Kimi's deviation lengthened it. And if there was an advantage to be gained, don't you think more people would use the run-off?

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:

lostpin wrote:It's even more questionable since I can't forget last years decision to punish Hamilton for cutting the chicane and doing an overtake move on the next curve. The circumstances were different, true, but essentially two things happened: 1. a driver didn't follow the exact course of the track 2. gained an advantage by doing that.

The major difference in those two circumstances was that Hamilton's deviation shortened the distance he would have to do to complete a lap. Kimi's deviation lengthened it. And if there was an advantage to be gained, don't you think more people would use the run-off?

Well it depends on the situation really. In this case it was an advantage because he didn't suffer any speed loss. He did go a longer distance, and he came back on the grid 3rd. There was no harm done. If there wasn't any run-off he probably would have gotten out from the hairpin somewhere around 11th or 12th.. having to let go all the traffic on the inside of the hairpin.

I think stewards normally turn an unofficial blind-eye to deviations like Kimis on the opening laps due to not wanting half the field destroyed within 10 seconds of a race starting.

lostpin wrote:Yet again I watched the video on YouTube, Barrichello (or Button) did the same thing, and so did Badoer.

Neither of them gained an advantage from doing so though, that was the difference.

DonTirri wrote:simply because it seems to be the "in" thing now.

If his performances were consistently good enough, and befitting of somebody who is meant to be a champion, then he would receive far less criticism in my view.

But the bottom line is: The stewards didnt penalize him, thus it was legal.

I disagree, it means the stewards are not competant because they do not know the rules.

For the last three races Räikkönen has been getting better and better, three consecutive podiums, one a piece ON A CAR THAT HASN'T SEEN ANY [deleted expletive] DEVELOPMENT SINCE GERMANY/HUNGARY And yet you keep saying he's rubbish and should be replaced by alonso and all that other crap a lot of you bathplug been spewin.

I would have far more respect for your points if you could manage not to use unnecessary swear words, and turn off the caps lock key. Writing in capitals and swearing doesn't improve the quality of your argument in my view, and it makes me want to disagree with you more, not less.

I appreciate that you are a Raikkonen fan, but I'm afraid I am not. I would be happy to give him some credit if his performances were consistently good enough to warrant his salary and his status as a world champion, but over the course of the last two seasons as a whole, they have not been good enough in my opinion, and this one victory does not mitigate against that.

I'm not saying his drive wasn't good, but he was very fortunate to win for all the reasons I've covered in a previous post, and the stewards should have, in my view, penalised him. The stewards should also have handed out penalties last year to a variety of drivers who committed the same offence and gained an advantage, but didn't, so I'm not saying it just because it's Raikkonen.

And I repeat my point from earlier: He wasnt penalized, THUS IT WASN'T AGAINST THE RULES.

Its easy for you to say what the stewards should or shouldnt do, when in reality you got no [expletive deleted] clue on what goes on behind the curtains

Again caps lock and swearing do not strengthen your argument in my opinion. The stewards need to have a firmer grip of the rules. Gaining an advantage by going off the circuit is not within the rules. Raikkonen did not have to go off the track to the extent to which he did, so the stewards should have penalised him for it in my opinion.