Why no more new teams?

[TeamTipper]

The new teams Manar USF1 and Campus anre the new teams next year in F1 which is really good but why wont they let all the ones who wanted a chance in F1 enter? Surely the more teams the better racing? And of course Reject teams and drivers and Pre Quafilying?

[CarlosFerreira]

I don't know maybe they don't too many teams crowing the pool of potential sponsors and anyway there's not a lot of people out there with money to burn in Formula One these days because of the financial crisis. At the risk of being called a grammar Nazi I just wanted to show what happens when you use no punctuation in a sentence with more than one idea it all gets a bit confusing and difficult to read but anyway welcome to the board!

[Tealy]

Yeah I think the general cost just to attend the race weekends as a team now is so high that many would not be able to get enough sponsor money if they could not garuntee a place on the grid. Hopefully when the costs come down and the financial sector sorts itself out we might be able to have a few more teams around and qualifying will become a real fight again.

[Warren Hughes]

Nobody wants to be in F1 just for the sake of being in F1 these days, that is, if you're going to enter a team, said team has to be competitive, or else you're just going to sink like a stone. Practically, having DNQs in this day and age is unworkable IMO. However, it's going to be good to have a full grid again!

As an aside, Tealy, it's good to see I'm not the only mackem on this forum!

[jackanderton]

BMW's exit has forced the FIA to publically state that they'll re-consider previously rejected or withdrawn applications.

Campos, Manor and US-F1 are still ploughing ahead, and there could possibly be one other.

However, I'd put my smart money on US-F1 making it, Campos making it with the aid of a benevolent constructor/engine supplier and a bit of help from the FIA, and Manor not making it. I simply don't see how they're possibly in a position to get into F1 at this stage.

By my calculations that will leave us with 22 cars in 2010, and that's a reasonably optimistic forecast.

Wild optimism could see us with 26 cars on the grid, but even that optimism would probably have to bear the 'successful' extra team the ignimony of DNQ's.

[shinji]

Are we meant to discriminate towards New Zealanders on this forum as we bow to our glorious leaders Jamie and Enoch? Is that inter-nation rivalry real or just in Flight of the Conchords? If it's real, learn to speak English TeamTipper, if it's not then Welcome to the Forum! Interesting thoughts but it's kind of been discussed before.

My worry is what will happen if BMW and possibly someone else (Toyota/Renault) leave and aren't replaced. We'll still just have 22 cars on the grid, with three teams a lot less competent than the ones that left.

[Captain Hammer]

The new teams Manar USF1 and Campus anre the new teams next year in F1 which is really good but why wont they let all the ones who wanted a chance in F1 enter? Surely the more teams the better racing? And of course Reject teams and drivers and Pre Quafilying?

While the pre-qualifying concept worked in the early 1990s, it doesn't today. Back then, it was possible to enter the sport for as little as $500,000, but here you'll need ten times that at least. Sponsors are a major source of income for teams, but they would be unwilling to commit to a sponsorshp deal if there is very little chance a car will end up on the grid. After all, there's only a certain number of cars that can race on circuits. While that number might be in excess of thirty at palces like Bahrain and Shanghai, twenty-six cars is considered the maximum possible at ther venues, particularly Monaco. And not every team that submitted an application to the FIA was a good one. myF1dream, for example, was to be run based on donations from fans; they'd be lucky to get $50,000.

However, I'd put my smart money on US-F1 making it, Campos making it with the aid of a benevolent constructor/engine supplier and a bit of help from the FIA, and Manor not making it. I simply don't see how they're possibly in a position to get into F1 at this stage.

I think all three will make it. The only reason people are averse to Manor being there is because you all assumed Prodrive and Lola would make it. Manor are in the habit of keeping quiet - that's why they didn't annouce it when they submitted an entry; because they didn't want to talk up their chances and then get disappointed - but I'm sure they're working away. If the FIA says there will be twenty-six cars next year, there will be twenty-six. There's even the rumour they could up that count to twenty-eight if the final plce comes down to two teams who can't be separated.

[DonTirri]

Manor not making it.

Haven't they pretty much gotten Virgin as a sponsor? You'd think that Branson has enough money to make sure they make it

[Captain Hammer]

Manor not making it.

Haven't they pretty much gotten Virgin as a sponsor? You'd think that Branson has enough money to make sure they make it

Yes, they do. But like I said: no-one saw Manor coming. And I think a lot of those people wouldn't be too disappointed if they disappeared overnight to be replaced by Prodrive.

[Irisado]

Toyota still haven't confirmed that they are definitely racing next year. Maybe that's the reason why they are rumoured not to have renewed Trulli's contract.....

Anyway, the door could yet be opened for a new team to replace BMW, but I find it more likely that somebody will buy the existing BMW team somehow. That said, Peter Sauber tried the 'Ross Brawn' approach, and the BMW board turned him down, so it could well be that a completely new team will take their place. This may provide either Prodrive or Lola with another chance to make the field for 2010, but time is running out, so if anyone is planning to make a bid, they (and I include the FIA in that they) need to get on with it.

[CarlosFerreira]

Manor not making it.

Haven't they pretty much gotten Virgin as a sponsor? You'd think that Branson has enough money to make sure they make it

Yes, they do. But like I said: no-one saw Manor coming. And I think a lot of those people wouldn't be too disappointed if they disappeared overnight to be replaced by Prodrive.

Captain, what do you make of the rumours that the FIA has been propping up Manor, including helping up with the Virgin deal?

[MaxZero]

Aren't Toro Rosso supposed to be changing hands at the end of this season?
That would open up another slot

[DemocalypseNow]

If Toyota bails and Campos doesn't have any money to build a car, could we see Prodrive-Mercedes, Epsilon-Euskadi and Sauber (whatever it is called by then) for next year?

[Janmarcuus]

Campos will be there for sure, and I'm confident Adrian will build a good team. USF1 is a doubt, because the structures now are... Absent. Manor is RIDICULOUS and was chosen just because Mosley is the true boss, to have some team lined with FIA in possible battles with FOTA. I honestly think USF1 will do it, and given the fact that Campos will live and Manor will be kept up... Epsilon Euskadi and Sauber will fight for the very last slot. All the existing teams except for BMW signed the Concorde Agreement, so they're going to stay until 2012.

[Irisado]

Aren't Toro Rosso supposed to be changing hands at the end of this season?
That would open up another slot

That rumour was circulated quite a while ago, and fizzled out quite quickly. They do have to start building their own car next season though if memory serves me correctly, so it will be interesting to compare them and the new teams in terms of pace, since Toro Rosso is a team the new teams should be aiming to beat realistically.

[Captain Hammer]

Captain, what do you make of the rumours that the FIA has been propping up Manor, including helping up with the Virgin deal?

Well, I know that the suggestion is that Max chose Manor and would have given them a discreet technical veto a la Ferrari that he could use to extert his will over the regulations. However, I think that Manor could cut it as a team in their own right. See, Max wouldn't just want a one-time-only deal. If Manor were a flimsy cobbled-together affair, they'd probably be out at the end of the season and Max would only be able to use that veto once. But if Manor were a legitimate racing organisation - and given their experiences and success in Formula Three, they are to a certain extent - then they're far more useful to Max because he gets perpetual control over the regulations. They would have had to make the sortlist of five teams before they were chosen, and because Mosley was so busying negoitating with and infuriating FOTA and because the selection process was so detailed and so drawn out, there's no way he could have done that on his own. No, if the rumours are true, then I think Manor would have been fourth or fifth on the shortlist, and that Max gave them the grid slot because without his support, they wuldn't have made it otherwise; in return, they get a technical veto over the regulations to be used in line with Max's desires. But again, I've seen no proof of this. A lot of people take it for granted, but it's nothing more than rumour. And I think a lot of it once again stems from the fact that everyone felt Prodrive and Lola were going to be on the grid, and now they're engaging in some character assassination to make themselves feel better.

As for the Virgin deal, that wasn't the FIA. Apparently Allan Donnelly introduced Richard Branson to John Booth, but that's as far as the FIA's involvement went. Someone close to Donnelly - his wife or a cousing or somethig - runs a public relations firm that brokered the deal, but Donnelly is the only one who is compromised. And when Nick Fry and Ross Brawn annouced that they have secured funing for the team for the next three years, they responded to questions about their relationship with Viring, saying they're on good terms and hve been offering Virgin advice on their sposorship of Virgin. There's more to it than simply the FIA meddling.

[CarlosFerreira]

Thanks, Captain. It does make some sense. I wonder, however, who could such a deal benefit from now on. The way I understood it, Todt's election would mean most of Max's bureaucracy stays in place. If Vatanen were to be elected, however, it could spell a somewhat deeper change - admittedly, not that deep, but still deeper. Interesting to see how things pan out after the FIA elections.

[TeamTipper]

shinji haha im british but living and studying in New Zealand. So im a Pommy which is worse kiwi or british? anyways the cost also of the drivers if say a real pro would be high but then that means more pay drivers I guess. And also their isn't enough engine makers atm with only mercedes ferrari cosworth renault and toyota their would be to much demand unlike the early 90's when their was loads of engines.

[Captain Hammer]

Thanks, Captain. It does make some sense. I wonder, however, who could such a deal benefit from now on. The way I understood it, Todt's election would mean most of Max's bureaucracy stays in place. If Vatanen were to be elected, however, it could spell a somewhat deeper change - admittedly, not that deep, but still deeper. Interesting to see how things pan out after the FIA elections.

I think that if it were true, Manor would make it known, thus negating its use.