RIP Manor Racing (2010-2017)

McDuck · Post by **McDuck** » 31 Mar 2011, 02:53

http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/gall ... ar/253.jpg

What a pile of junk. I will go out on a limb here and declare that this is the worst car design currently racing (LOL) in Formula 1.

Why???

A CFD only approach might sound viable to someone on drugs, but it's painfully obvious just by looking at the car that the computer isn't generating optimal aerodynamic data. If it were, the car would look something like this:

http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/gall ... medium.jpg

ATTENTION MARUSSIA VIRGIN RACING FORMULA ONE TEAM: Your CFD only experiment is a FAILURE.

$5 FRN says that HRT beats them in the WCC again.

Agree or disagree?

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 31 Mar 2011, 03:24

In virgin's defence, the cfd approach is not a complete failure. And comparing them to red bull is unfair. CFD doesn't just magically make an F1 car. It still has to be designed by someone using information gathered from the computers.
They have proven that CFD isn't at least completely useless. I mean, in 2010 they were close to Lotus on pace. Lotus has pulled away from them from what we see, and HRT, from what we can assume will close the gap and maybe even pass them, but all the CFD in the world can't make them top the superior funding and designers at Lotus, or the superior designers at HRT(I guess).

But they are really in danger of coming a dead last again in the WCC. They must step their game up or become the laughing stock of the F1 grid.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 31 Mar 2011, 07:20

Kick the struggling team while they're down, why don't you. Hardly the F1Rejects way...

Glennerz · Post by **Glennerz** » 31 Mar 2011, 11:36

McDuck wrote:What a pile of junk. I will go out on a limb here and declare that this is the worst car design currently racing (LOL) in Formula 1...ATTENTION MARUSSIA VIRGIN RACING FORMULA ONE TEAM: Your CFD only experiment is a FAILURE...$5 FRN says that HRT beats them in the WCC again.

Virgin need all the support they can get. If we don't love them for what they are, then who will?

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 31 Mar 2011, 12:13

Why is everyone so full of hate for Virgin? :cry:

I think they're doing a great job, on a low budget, and look to have most of the reliability problems from last year ironed out. They just need to work on their performance over this year and you never know what might happen!

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 31 Mar 2011, 13:02

McDuck wrote:http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/gallery/pictures/2011/f1/test-catalunya-10mar/253.jpg

What a pile of junk. I will go out on a limb here and declare that this is the worst car design currently racing (LOL) in Formula 1.

Why???

A CFD only approach might sound viable to someone on drugs, but it's painfully obvious just by looking at the car that the computer isn't generating optimal aerodynamic data. If it were, the car would look something like this:

http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/gall ... medium.jpg

ATTENTION MARUSSIA VIRGIN RACING FORMULA ONE TEAM: Your CFD only experiment is a FAILURE.

$5 FRN says that HRT beats them in the WCC again.

Agree or disagree?

It's hard to judge whether it's slower or faster than the HRT yet. It's logical to assume HRT will gain some speed when they get more running. Whether they'll gain the two and a half seconds they were short of D'Ambrosio's MVR-02 is another matter. My personal inkling is that they won't anytime soon, even if their car is potentially faster than the MVR-02, because they simply won't have enough cash and spare parts to give the car a lot of laps in practice.

As for the CFD approach, for all we know it's better than the half-assed, underfunded attempt to build a car through hours of scale model tests and wind-tunnel testing that they could make for the same money. And even with the CFD Glock was only .5 of a second off an allegedly improved Lotus built the good old fashioned way, so I don't think it's a total disaster.

Why are Marussia/Virgin getting a lot of stick and HRT are getting a free-ride compared to them? Because we expected HRT to be rubbish and not qualify? Were we expecting Glock to challenge for pole or something?

eagleash · Post by **eagleash** » 31 Mar 2011, 13:35

shinji wrote:Kick the struggling team while they're down, why don't you. Hardly the F1Rejects way...

Very much seconded Shinj

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 31 Mar 2011, 15:11

Disagree! I would be surprised if HRT qualified for a race!

Valrys · Post by **Valrys** » 31 Mar 2011, 17:33

JeremyMcClean wrote:Disagree! I would be surprised if HRT qualified for a race!

Prepare to be surprised.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 31 Mar 2011, 17:43

Valrys wrote:
JeremyMcClean wrote:Disagree! I would be surprised if HRT qualified for a race!

Prepare to be surprised.

Seconded!

S951 · Post by **S951** » 31 Mar 2011, 17:57

DanielPT wrote:
Valrys wrote:
JeremyMcClean wrote:Disagree! I would be surprised if HRT qualified for a race!

Prepare to be surprised.

Seconded!

3rds! not only will they qualify they will do better than we think

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 31 Mar 2011, 20:17

What are we basing that on though?

HRT got three practice laps on one of their cars in Australia, plus qualifying. And this was a car that was supposed to be ready for the Bahrain Grand Prix two weeks earlier. Now either:

a) They would've been an utter no show at Bahrain if it had happened.

or more likely

b) They'd have run 3 practice laps there too because they don't have enough money and spares to make a proper fist of both practice and qualifying.

Unless they get more sponsorship, I'm hard pressed to see that situation improving. The car can only improve with mileage, and I wonder will they get enough. The F111 may very well have the potential to be better than the MVR-02, I just suspect it'll never fufill that potential because the team won't be able to get enough laps into it. Maybe they'll prove me wrong by running the car for the full session in Malayasia and power to them if they do, I'd like to see a 24 car grid instead of 22, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Pedestrian · Post by **Pedestrian** » 31 Mar 2011, 20:22

Well I for one refuse to believe that CFD is a failure until I see proof that a superior non-CFD designed car can be built on the same budget.

Eryx · Post by **Eryx** » 31 Mar 2011, 20:50

McDuck , you cant expect a team after 1 season and a bit to just magically jump from back to front, its not impossible but its VERY unlikely, Virgin will be a laughing stock unless they pick up there pace a bit though what your saying isnt totally unjustified i grant you but you cant insult a team because it isnt doing well , remember we were told allot by Lotus that they will be "running with the back midfield" judging buy Australia i dont think so.

Then again Australia isnt the one where we judge cars on Aerodynamics as such so...

As for HRT expect them to qualify believe me and the rest that are saying seconded 3rds etc the 107% time was 1:31.2 Liuzzi (ON LIMITED RUNNING OF A FEW LAPS) managed to gettit to 1:32.9 if Liuzzi got more laps more practice and more time to get the car set up we would of seen Liuzzi qualify...as for Karthikeyan im optomistic about wether he can do it but i dont think we should judge as such because there going to get allot more running for Malaysia they have all the practice sessions as such to get the car set up so lets see what happens and not insult teams that are struggling...remember HRT is on a low budget and even though Virgin is owned by Mr.Branson (go home to him as well as Kolles) they obviously dont have 100% funding...

Eryx xx

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 31 Mar 2011, 20:59

Marussia own most of Virgin now don't they?

How long was Branson actually bothered with Virgin Racing? Three, four races? Cos he could've given them enough money to get into the midfield with the change that's fallen down the back of his sofa...

JohnMLTX · Post by **JohnMLTX** » 31 Mar 2011, 21:35

When turbo engines were used for the first time, the technology wasn't where it needed to be, and the team using them struggled.
When aerodynamic wings were used for the first time, they didn't look right, had loads of problems, and the teams using them struggled.
When the Cosworth DFV was introduced, it was unreliable, with many of the components failing, and the team using them struggled.

Give it some time before you criticize the technology. It's not a matter of whether or not the MFV-02 is as quick as the RB7, it's the fact that Virgin Racing has designed, engineered, and built TWO cars WITHOUT A WIND TUNNEL. They're doing something truly incredible, and you're pointing out that all of their hard work and determination has produced 'a pile of junk'.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 31 Mar 2011, 22:13

Enforcer wrote:Were we expecting Glock to challenge for pole or something?

No i'm not, despite the fact that he is one of the top 5 or 6 drivers in F1.

GroupLotusRenault · Post by **GroupLotusRenault** » 31 Mar 2011, 22:16

I think Virgin have taken a gamble with the all CFD desing and to me its a good one, Even though they arent on the pace like the midfied teams (yet) its till only a year old project and it takes time to sort out all the niggling problems. People should give Virgin racing time and I give them my 100% support with the all CFD design and I think it will be a new era in Motorsport engineering design.
Glock will have to be morte patience with the team and just try his best to help Virgin move up the field

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 31 Mar 2011, 22:20

Pedestrian wrote:Well I for one refuse to believe that CFD is a failure until I see proof that a superior non-CFD designed car can be built on the same budget.

Exactly my point. The factory they now have at their disposal for CFD is huge, trust me. I've driven past it more times than you lot have had hot dinners! :lol:

JohnMLTX wrote:When turbo engines were used for the first time, the technology wasn't where it needed to be, and the team using them struggled.
When aerodynamic wings were used for the first time, they didn't look right, had loads of problems, and the teams using them struggled.
When the Cosworth DFV was introduced, it was unreliable, with many of the components failing, and the team using them struggled.

Give it some time before you criticize the technology. It's not a matter of whether or not the MFV-02 is as quick as the RB7, it's the fact that Virgin Racing has designed, engineered, and built TWO cars WITHOUT A WIND TUNNEL. They're doing something truly incredible, and you're pointing out that all of their hard work and determination has produced 'a pile of junk'.

Superb post. Beer well and truly deserved!

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 31 Mar 2011, 23:34

Enforcer wrote:Marussia own most of Virgin now don't they?

How long was Branson actually bothered with Virgin Racing? Three, four races? Cos he could've given them enough money to get into the midfield with the change that's fallen down the back of his sofa...

He said they joined on a budget cap. And they decided to follow that.

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 01 Apr 2011, 00:38

I think its an overgeneralisation to declare the CFD approach a failure, evidence suggests that it is too early to do away with the wind tunnel, but that doesn't mean that F1 cars of the future won't be designed without wind tunnels.

Remember both the Wind Tunnel and CFD are just tools, used to approximate the airflow over a car but nothing more. CFD is limited by our understanding of aerodynamics (which is far from complete) and the computing power of the system it runs on, whereas wind tunnels are limited by scale and the fact that F1 cars don't race in tunnels.

So you see that data from both sources is only as good as the engineers interpreting it, and the creativity of the designers to come up with solutions to the problems that the data presents.

The CFD approach has produced the Acura ARX-02 for the ALMS, a car designed and built on a shoestring, powered by "world's worst LMP engine" and capable of running with the Audis and Peugeots with their massive manufacturer backing.

Now I understand F1 and Le Mans are a league apart, but aero modelling will get more advanced, computers will always get faster, given time we might see CFD surpass the windtunnel.

Having said all that, the MVR-02 does seem to be a dog of a car, but hey, so was the Honda RA107: Built with the use of a wind tunnel, with full manufacturer backing and a huge budget.

GroupLotusRenault · Post by **GroupLotusRenault** » 01 Apr 2011, 07:16

IdeFan wrote:Having said all that, the MVR-02 does seem to be a dog of a car, but hey, so was the Honda RA107: Built with the use of a wind tunnel, with full manufacturer backing and a huge budget.

And look what happened to the old Honda team two years later...Virgin will get their, but I think what is worrying the cars are still way off the pace like last year and just making it on the grid. Will Richand Bransen put up with being a backmarker team anymore?

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 01 Apr 2011, 09:33

GroupLotusRenault wrote:
IdeFan wrote:Having said all that, the MVR-02 does seem to be a dog of a car, but hey, so was the Honda RA107: Built with the use of a wind tunnel, with full manufacturer backing and a huge budget.

And look what happened to the old Honda team two years later...Virgin will get their, but I think what is worrying the cars are still way off the pace like last year and just making it on the grid. Will Richand Bransen put up with being a backmarker team anymore?

That is why Marussia is slowly taking charge. Branson got fed up with F1 really quickly. Next year or two it will be called only Marussia and have Mikhail Aleshin at the wheel of one of their cars. Hopefully their self imposed cap will be lifted and they will have more resources to improve their CFD approach.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 01 Apr 2011, 09:47

I think it's still too early to pass judgement on whether the CFD desing is a failure or not. Last year Virgin (read Timo Glock) could often run with Lotus and even outpace them, so this approach isn't as bad as whoever opened this thread thinks. They are limited because of his small resources but with more time and refining of this technique, I don't see why it shouldn't work so far...

Post by **mario** » 01 Apr 2011, 17:02

Phoenix wrote:I think it's still too early to pass judgement on whether the CFD desing is a failure or not. Last year Virgin (read Timo Glock) could often run with Lotus and even outpace them, so this approach isn't as bad as whoever opened this thread thinks. They are limited because of his small resources but with more time and refining of this technique, I don't see why it shouldn't work so far...

And in Melbourne, there were some signs that the MVR-02 wasn't as far off the pace of the Lotus T128 that most people were predicting before that weekend. Glock was 0.5s off Trulli's qualifying time roughly, which, although a not inconsiderable deficit, is closer than initially thought, whilst during the race itself, both Glock's and D'Ambrosio's first stints were not that far off that of Trulli and Heikki.

Now, I will admit that I've been somewhat sceptical in the past of Virgin Racing and their pure CFD approach - but, as IdeFan points out, the main limitations with any form of design tool, be it a wind tunnel or CFD server farm, are the constraints that are imposed on you because of your chosen modelling technique.
And that is without the potential random variable of human error and misinterpretation of your data, from Renault's non flush tile in their wind tunnel throwing their results out, to Honda's repeated wind tunnel calibration issues in 2007 and 2008 or McLaren's incorrect weight bias in 2009.

Hell, there are even examples outside of Formula 1 which show the limitations of relying too heavily on laboratory experiments - take the Audi R15, which made extensive use of CFD and wind tunnels (especially the latter, since wind tunnel testing in the Le Mans series is not limited like F1 is). Whilst the car in theory should have been very competitive based on wind tunnel and simulation data, well, we all saw that they struggled against Peugeot.
And in that scenario, the problem was established early on, although the remedy was much harder to find - instability in the braking zone caused by changes in the airflow around the car as it pitched back and forth. Wind tunnel data was ultimately no match for data obtained at the track, where you have a very different set of parameters compared to your idealised laboratory conditions.

If anything, I am wondering if perhaps the issue in itself is not just the limitations of the CFD computational models available but also the willingness of Wirth to experiment and push the envelope. The MVR-02 is little more than an evolution of the VR-01, and the VR-01 was pretty conservative in the first place, so it isn't really surprising that the car as a whole is not quite matching the pace of the T128.
It's not exactly if Wirth is afraid to experiment with his designs - we've seen that with the Acura Le Mans cars, especially the 02a, and the 01e, which is an evolution of that car. The design team at Virgin Racing is pretty small - substantially smaller than Lotus, for example - and at the back of the grid, you tend to be more conservative with your designs anyway because you cannot afford for them to go wrong.

By contrast, take, say McLaren. In testing, they were rumoured to have a revolutionary but highly complex and unreliable exhaust system, which was part of the reason why they were off the pace and suffering from a lot of problems in testing.
The point is, McLaren have the resources to have multiple design teams, so they could have one team working on a back up system (which is the one they used in Melbourne), manufacture it and have it ready for the car in Melbourne within a handful of weeks. In addition, McLaren have a very systematic and methodical method for acquiring data at the track, as do a number of other teams, so they are constantly feeding back data to the factory and designers back in Woking.
If you are at Virgin Racing, you don't have the resources to be able to do that, so if a part doesn't work as expected, it's going to take much longer to sort out.

GroupLotusRenault · Post by **GroupLotusRenault** » 02 Apr 2011, 03:38

Mario makes a good and critical point, the MVR-02 is just a updated evolution of the VR-01 which isn't a good car in the first place. Why didn't build a complety new car?

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 02 Apr 2011, 05:20

Money? Safe bet? Waiting for the upgrade on the facilites to be finished? Lazy? Stupid? There are so many reasons!

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 02 Apr 2011, 13:24

I think it might have something to do with their move from Bicester to Banbury to the larger factory, which I think meant they weren't able to utilise the new place in time for this season so the car had to be designed/built still in the old factory. I believe they are fully moved in now though so perhaps we'll see the benefits of the improved CFD power through updates during the season? I'd like to think so anyway!

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 02 Apr 2011, 13:27

Like every new method or technology, it is sometime that needs time to perfect, to improve and to train. I hope they can have it!

McDuck · Post by **McDuck** » 10 Apr 2011, 02:11

Code: Select all

Q3 cut-off time: 1m38.163s          Gap *
18. Pastor Maldonado Williams    1m38.276s
19. Heikki Kovalainen Lotus         1m38.645s
20. Jarno Trulli Lotus                    1m38.791s
21. Timo Glock Virgin                   1m40.648s
22. Jerome D’Ambrosio Virgin      1m41.001s
23. Tonio Liuzzi HRT                    1m41.549s
24. Narain Karthikeyan HRT         1m42.574s

Virgin is in trouble. They had better add a few more hacked Sony PS3s to their CFD supercomputing cluster because HRT is coming for them!

Geoff Willis > Nick Wirth.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 10 Apr 2011, 06:35

Actually, Wirth Research has the third most-powerful supercomputer in the world at their disposal.

I think that part of the problem - and what might actually prove to be the team's saving grace - is the way they concentrated on getting the reliability down. Speed is good, but if your car keeps breakng down, you're worse off than if you had a slow car. Since the MVR-02 is basically just an upgraded VR-01, and because they don't have any signifcant upgrades planned until Istanbul, I suspect they're planning on introducing some big stuff halfway through the season.

CFD isn't this problem. It's the budget. After all, Wirth had som real success with the Acura Le Mans Prototype. He's shown it can work, but they jsut have to take it that extra step forward.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 10 Apr 2011, 10:59

And the reliability is looking good. Okay so Glock pulled out of Australia and came back out 9 laps down to do some more valuable running, whilst D'Ambrosio made most of the distance at Sepang today. Both drivers have made the finish once so far which is a big improvement on last season when they couldn't get a finish for love nor money at the start of the season, especially with the undersized fuel tank.

The Captain's right, the team is operating on the lowest budget of all of the teams with the exception of HRT of course and consequently they are limited by what they can do. I'm hoping for a good bit of improvement as the season progresses, and whilst currently pace-wise the car hasn't improved by a great deal like perhaps the Lotus has, overall the team is a better operation, stabilised and moving forwards. Today Glock had a steady race and at times ran ahead of Trulli who didn't have the best race in the world, running wide and flat-spotting his tyres after his second(?) stop. There's no doubt that the gap between Virgin and Lotus has opened up from last year, but they look just as unlikely to score points in ordinary race conditions as Virgin. They still need to be concentrating on reliability first and foremost, that's what Virgin have done, and they're enjoying the benefits of race finishes early in the season.

To even entertain the idea that HRT will do better than Virgin over the season as a whole this year in my opinion is nuts. I posted in the HRT thread about Liuzzi's pace, he was no-where near the pace of even D'Ambrosio, a rookie in only his second race, whereas last year Di Grassi was frequently under threat from whoever was the faster of the two HRTs.

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 10 Apr 2011, 16:55

Last year I said I would reserve my judgement on Virgin until I saw the (M)VR-02, which would actually be designed with a year's worth of data in the bank as opposed to a clear sheet. And, for whatever reason, it seems the most sophisticated piece of equipment they used to design the MVR-02 with was a photocopier copying a car that wasn't what you'd call competitive in the first place. For all the grandstanding about increasing their CFD computer capacity, I was expecting this year's car not to have all those obvious giveaways in the design that it was a first attempt, when the second should have shown an improvement. I'm also concerned that there will be barely any difference in the MVR-03 as well - unless they were going to be seriously threatened with a raft of DNQs floating their way, why would they change anything for 2012 when the 2013 rules are going to force everyone's hand to change the design to fit a completely different set of rules?

Sticking with a self-imposed budget cap isn't going to work if the only other team with a comparable budget is going to be Hispania, and the two teams will be racing for 22nd place every race. If the rumours about Branson not coughing up some cash are true - especially as his company's name has been allowed to trample over that of Manor Motorsport - then they should tell him to bathplug off, revert to being Manor Grand Prix (especially as it looks likely they'll finish 11th or, dare I say it, dead last and not have any televisoion money to lose) and instead go all-out for Russian sponsorship. This will, as it has been pointed out, most likely mean ditching Custard in favour of Mikhail Aleshin - as far as I can see, the only sponsorship Custard's brought with him or attracted is from Quick - but as even Williams are finding out now, beggars can't be choosers. The problem I can see with Marussia is that they have to sell their road cars to be able to supply money to the team - and, you have to ask, who's going to buy a Marussia? Even if you're a Russian oligarch for whom $130,000 is small change, unless you were as blinded by patriotism as a worryingly large proportion of the USA is, would you buy a Marussia ahead of a Ferrari 458, a McLaren MP4-12C, a Porsche 911 turbo, a Lamborghini Aventador, a Mercedes SLS, even an Audi R8? Somehow, I can't see it happening. So, though Nikolai Fomenko could still keep his company logo on the car, what he needs to do is aggressively target the huge Russian sponsors - Gazprom being the obvious one. Whip them out from under the noses of Team Bahar who will most likely have the same idea with Vitaly Petrov still on board. Meanwhile, keep a team base in the UK. And, if possible, keep it in Yorkshire. Expand it, even. I mean, we're always talking about how so many jobs in the UK are being concentrated in the South East with everywhere in the North being left to rot; why not make a determined attempt to make this a proper Yorkshire success story? A Formula One team in an old mining town. Maybe they could try to get some Yorkshire sponsors on board as well. Get Taylor's of Harrogate to serve Yorkshire Tea in the motorhome in exchange for a logo on the car. And what about the CFD computers all being linked up by plusnet, a.k.a. "good honest broadband from Yorkshire"? If only British Steel was still a going concern, that'd be ideal, seeing as the team isn't based too far from Sheffield.

As some of you know from one of my first posts here (directed mainly at Andrea Moda), I also want to see MVR do well - or, at least, better than they are doing, because half my family's from Yorkshire, and I'm not all that far away. Certainly I'm closer to Dinnington than I am to the hateful carbuncle on the UK landscape that is Milton Keynes, so MVR are my local rejects. It's just I thought they'd do a bit more to escape eternal rejectdom than they already have.

I live in hope, or maybe that should be mindless optimism. Just you wait for the MVR-04, or the MMR-04, or whatever the car will be called, in 2013.

IdeFan wrote:Having said all that, the MVR-02 does seem to be a dog of a car, but hey, so was the Honda RA107: Built with the use of a wind tunnel, with full manufacturer backing and a huge budget.

I reckon a valid comparison would be between the MVR-02 and the RA108; both are, in effect, updated versions on what was a dog the previous year and for some unfathomable reason, the basic design was carried through to the next year for another guaranteed season of rejectivity. At least Rubens Barrichello scored a fluke podium with the RA108, though, which I really can't see Timo Glock doing in the MVR-02.

I would say, for a true evaluation of the all-CFD approach, a large team with a huge budget needs to have a stab at it, and see what happens. I really can't see that happening, though, unless the FIA steps in and bans wind tunnels altogether.

watka · Post by **watka** » 10 Apr 2011, 22:02

dinizintheoven wrote:Last year I said I would reserve my judgement on Virgin until I saw the (M)VR-02, which would actually be designed with a year's worth of data in the bank as opposed to a clear sheet. And, for whatever reason, it seems the most sophisticated piece of equipment they used to design the MVR-02 with was a photocopier copying a car that wasn't what you'd call competitive in the first place. For all the grandstanding about increasing their CFD computer capacity, I was expecting this year's car not to have all those obvious giveaways in the design that it was a first attempt, when the second should have shown an improvement. I'm also concerned that there will be barely any difference in the MVR-03 as well - unless they were going to be seriously threatened with a raft of DNQs floating their way, why would they change anything for 2012 when the 2013 rules are going to force everyone's hand to change the design to fit a completely different set of rules?

Sticking with a self-imposed budget cap isn't going to work if the only other team with a comparable budget is going to be Hispania, and the two teams will be racing for 22nd place every race. If the rumours about Branson not coughing up some cash are true - especially as his company's name has been allowed to trample over that of Manor Motorsport - then they should tell him to bathplug off, revert to being Manor Grand Prix (especially as it looks likely they'll finish 11th or, dare I say it, dead last and not have any televisoion money to lose) and instead go all-out for Russian sponsorship. This will, as it has been pointed out, most likely mean ditching Custard in favour of Mikhail Aleshin - as far as I can see, the only sponsorship Custard's brought with him or attracted is from Quick - but as even Williams are finding out now, beggars can't be choosers. The problem I can see with Marussia is that they have to sell their road cars to be able to supply money to the team - and, you have to ask, who's going to buy a Marussia? Even if you're a Russian oligarch for whom $130,000 is small change, unless you were as blinded by patriotism as a worryingly large proportion of the USA is, would you buy a Marussia ahead of a Ferrari 458, a McLaren MP4-12C, a Porsche 911 turbo, a Lamborghini Aventador, a Mercedes SLS, even an Audi R8? Somehow, I can't see it happening. So, though Nikolai Fomenko could still keep his company logo on the car, what he needs to do is aggressively target the huge Russian sponsors - Gazprom being the obvious one. Whip them out from under the noses of Team Bahar who will most likely have the same idea with Vitaly Petrov still on board. Meanwhile, keep a team base in the UK. And, if possible, keep it in Yorkshire. Expand it, even. I mean, we're always talking about how so many jobs in the UK are being concentrated in the South East with everywhere in the North being left to rot; why not make a determined attempt to make this a proper Yorkshire success story? A Formula One team in an old mining town. Maybe they could try to get some Yorkshire sponsors on board as well. Get Taylor's of Harrogate to serve Yorkshire Tea in the motorhome in exchange for a logo on the car. And what about the CFD computers all being linked up by plusnet, a.k.a. "good honest broadband from Yorkshire"? If only British Steel was still a going concern, that'd be ideal, seeing as the team isn't based too far from Sheffield.

As some of you know from one of my first posts here (directed mainly at Andrea Moda), I also want to see MVR do well - or, at least, better than they are doing, because half my family's from Yorkshire, and I'm not all that far away. Certainly I'm closer to Dinnington than I am to the hateful carbuncle on the UK landscape that is Milton Keynes, so MVR are my local rejects. It's just I thought they'd do a bit more to escape eternal rejectdom than they already have.

I was reading this imagining that you were reciting this on a soapbox in Hyde Park with Land of Hope and Glory blaring out in the background.

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 11 Apr 2011, 00:12

watka wrote:I was reading this imagining that you were reciting this on a soapbox in Hyde Park with Land of Hope and Glory blaring out in the background.

Wouldn't touch that tune with a barge pole, me old mucker!

And having just been out to see Saxon, who are also from Yorkshire, I think I'd have something by them instead... only there isn't a lot that's suitable. Not even Wheels Of Steel, because that's about a '68 Chevy that even a misfiring Hispania with Plamen Kralev driving it could outrun. Maybe the Largo from Dvorák's New World Symphony would do it - you know, that Hovis advert... but it was also used on Channel 4's Top Ten of British Heavy Metal to introduce the band who were at no.8, and as soon as I saw a sepia-tinted picture of an old Northern town with dry stone walls and that music playing in the background, I knew who it was going to be. And then the announcement... "when we were lads, we were so poor we couldn't do any drugs after t' show, we'd go home and have a mug o' luke-warm dirt"... all in a strong Yorkshire accent. That sealed it. Next thing we know, there's Biff Byford in his tight spandex trousers...

The Hovis advert: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Mq59ykPnAE (filmed in Dorset)
What the Largo from the New World Symphony is supposed to sound like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoUDthyy0Nk - the famous cor anglais solo starts at 40 seconds in.

So, where were we?

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 01 May 2011, 14:52

Can we make this into an official "The Virgin Thread", seeing as we've got a very long one on Hispania?

Pitpass has just made an article called "Finding Timo". I thought at least one of you might want to read it.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 02 May 2011, 08:21

Why would we want to read anything by Spitpass?

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 02 May 2011, 09:50

Captain Hammer wrote:Why would we want to read anything by Spitpass?

God bless you Captain and your unabated hatred of some journals and media-outlets.
Let the word be heard!
Thy Shall Not Read Spitpass!Thus Spoke The Almighty Captain!

Seriously, it was good read. Your "hatred" vs Saward and now apparently pitpass too is a major source of annoyance for me on the boards, another being Cynon and his constant "NASCRAP this and NASCRAP that" spouting.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 02 May 2011, 11:13

Captain Hammer wrote:Why would we want to read anything by Spitpass?

I think they kiss way too much Bernie boots, but otherwise they have some humorous points of view...

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 02 May 2011, 12:42

DonTirri wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:Why would we want to read anything by Spitpass?

God bless you Captain and your unabated hatred of some journals and media-outlets.
Let the word be heard!
Thy Shall Not Read Spitpass!Thus Spoke The Almighty Captain!

Seriously, it was good read. Your "hatred" vs Saward and now apparently pitpass too is a major source of annoyance for me on the boards, another being Cynon and his constant "NASCRAP this and NASCRAP that" spouting.

Don't worry, I'm sure your complaining on various topics, such as people who dislike Vettel, is a source of annoyance for other people too. That aside, I have to agree with you here - I'm not sure that random attack was entirely called for, especially considering that the article seemed pretty informative to me.