The HRT thread

The place for speaking your mind on current goings-on in F1
Post Reply
User avatar
MaxZero
Posts: 166
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 19:08

The HRT thread

Post by MaxZero »

Because these guys are being louder than a loud thing on a loud day at the moment, several topics on different aspects didn't seem a good idea



so according to Kolles, the development mess is all Chandhok's fault
http://www.motorsport.com/news/article. ... 7443&FS=F1

Kolles claimed the missing money affected HRT's progress.

"We were planning to do certain upgrades on the car, but everything got disturbed"


I would like to extend this accusation, its Chandhok's fault that they didn't pay the FOTA fees and were booted out of that, its also his fault that the owner owes millions! :roll:

What is their budget anyway, is 6 million (less than that with Yamamoto bringing money in) enough to disturb everything?

I'm just deliberating over the likelihood of them developing the darn thing if they had gotten the money, I notice they have also said that the 2010 car will also be the 2011, will it technically still be a Dallara then?
User avatar
Mister Fungus
Posts: 351
Joined: 11 Sep 2009, 16:09

Re: The HRT thread

Post by Mister Fungus »

Man we need to start making notes for the future site profile.
User avatar
Shizuka
Posts: 4793
Joined: 27 Jul 2010, 15:36

Re: The HRT thread

Post by Shizuka »

Good job blaming everything on the driver who made the team finish ahead of Virgin, Colin Kolles.
You can go home now.

Code: Select all

14:03   RaikkonenPlsCare   There's some water in water
User avatar
fjackdaw
Posts: 1233
Joined: 11 Apr 2009, 21:00

Re: The HRT thread

Post by fjackdaw »

Shizuka wrote:Good job blaming everything on the driver who made the team finish ahead of Virgin, Colin Kolles.
You can go home now.


Much as we like Karun, and dislike Colin Kolles, if Karun's sponsors really only did deliver a quarter of their promised sponsorship, that sounds like a basis for legal action to me, and would have had an impact on development.
User avatar
MaxZero
Posts: 166
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 19:08

Re: The HRT thread

Post by MaxZero »

See these sponsors tho, if their not paying up, shouldn't the legal action be against them?

For sure , theres enough content available already to produce a good reject profile, I've always felt with Kolles at the helm it has been a spiritual continuation of Midland/Spyker
Last edited by MaxZero on 11 Jan 2011, 11:16, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
DanielPT
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 6126
Joined: 30 Dec 2010, 18:44
Location: Porto, Portugal

Re: The HRT thread

Post by DanielPT »

These guys are really crying for attention now. Well I guess for them, all publicity is good publicity. Anyway, while other teams are busy working on their cars quietly, Kolles seems busier talking to the press. I take from it that these are not great signs. It almost seems like a last hurrah...
Colin Kolles on F111, 2011 HRT challenger: The car doesn't look too bad; it looks like a modern F1 car.
User avatar
mario
Posts: 8107
Joined: 31 Oct 2009, 17:13

Re: The HRT thread

Post by mario »

MaxZero, HRT's budget for 2010 was said to have been about $35 million - so, €6 million (or about $7.8 million) would make a substantial difference, as that is about 22% of their entire budget. It would be the equivalent, say, of one of the top teams like Mclaren, Mercedes or Red Bull losing about $25 - 30 million in revenue (they have budgets in the order of $130 million), or Ferrari losing about $50 million (budget said to be about $240 million).
Now, that sort of loss of revenue would cripple a larger team, although they might have enough in the bank to cushion some of the blow; but a new team, with no reserves of capital to draw on, could be sunk altogether. See what happened to Super Aguri, for example, when their biggest sponsor (SS United) defaulted on their payments.

As to the legal action, I suppose that it depends on the clauses within the contract, as it sounds as if Chandhok's place was conditional on him providing €8 million. Either his sponsors have not paid up fully, in which case I would say that most of the blame lies on their side, not Chandhok's, or Chandhok only ever had €2 million in sponsorship but claimed to have €8 million, which is potentially a more serious situation. I guess, though, that the best thing to do would be to see what happens if the case does indeed go ahead, and what charges are brought.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
User avatar
S951
Posts: 949
Joined: 29 Dec 2010, 18:10
Location: Shropshire, UK
Contact:

Re: The HRT thread

Post by S951 »

This is becomming a laugh, even virgin managed to come under budget for 2010.

It's always interesting to see news on these guys as it is almost as bad as USF1 but these guys just about have enough to run "something"
Luca Badoer we miss you appreciation group

https://www.facebook.com/groups/187177268036270/
User avatar
Mister Fungus
Posts: 351
Joined: 11 Sep 2009, 16:09

Re: The HRT thread

Post by Mister Fungus »

I don't understand why many people are frustrated or angry at HRT/Collin Kolles, every news I read about them makes me jolly and I gorge upon their shame.
User avatar
FullMetalJack
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 6269
Joined: 31 Mar 2009, 15:32
Location: Some place far away. Yes, that'll do.

Re: The HRT thread

Post by FullMetalJack »

Can we just put the HRT profile up now?
I like the way Snrub thinks!
User avatar
AndreaModa
Posts: 5806
Joined: 30 Mar 2009, 17:51
Location: Bristol, UK

Re: The HRT thread

Post by AndreaModa »

I think we should certainly consider getting some of the information down, considering the amount of stuff that's gone on there in 2010. Do we still have the wiki available to place pieces of information in before starting to mould it into a profile?
I want my MTV...Simtek Ford

My Motorsport Photos

@DNPQ_
User avatar
watka
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 4097
Joined: 26 Apr 2009, 19:04
Location: Chessington, the former home of Brabham
Contact:

Re: The HRT thread

Post by watka »

As much as I dislike HRT now for being incompetent, non-triers who have ruined Bruno Senna's career, I think in 5 years time I'll probably like back on HRT with fondness such is their rejectness! :D
Watka - you know, the swimming horses guy
Peter
Posts: 780
Joined: 06 Nov 2010, 00:45
Location: Kingston, Jamaica

Re: The HRT thread

Post by Peter »

The fact that they made a 19 race season on only 35 million Euros at best is nothing short of incompetence. They aren't incompetent, they aren't mis-managed, they are just inexperienced and poor. Yet they still finished a season, and was the best at reliability, and even beat a team. And every bad thing that happens to them whatever reason they give is dismissed as them blaming everyone but themselves, when it's not really even their fault. I'm tired of people saying "let's write up an article from now" and "mismanaged" and "worst team ever" and "Go home, Colin Kolles."
"The FIA's implementation of penalties is about as effective as that of the English football team."
User avatar
Warren Hughes
Posts: 1334
Joined: 23 Aug 2009, 10:37
Location: Sunderland, UK

Re: The HRT thread

Post by Warren Hughes »

But "go home Colin Kolles" is a running joke. I thought it was almost an unwritten rule of these forums that no-one ever gets tired of a running joke. Which is why the 'HWNSNBM facts' thread continues to thrive.

On the subject of HRT, somebody has to be at the back, and to be honest I'm happy to have a backmarker that lives up to the finest reject traditions of a crap car, no money and a string of pay drivers. They're triers; let's hope they can soldier on for as long as possible!
Nico Rosberg wrote:Break me down mentally? Good luck with that one.

:roll:
User avatar
mario
Posts: 8107
Joined: 31 Oct 2009, 17:13

Re: The HRT thread

Post by mario »

Warren Hughes wrote:But "go home Colin Kolles" is a running joke. I thought it was almost an unwritten rule of these forums that no-one ever gets tired of a running joke. Which is why the 'HWNSNBM facts' thread continues to thrive.

On the subject of HRT, somebody has to be at the back, and to be honest I'm happy to have a backmarker that lives up to the finest reject traditions of a crap car, no money and a string of pay drivers. They're triers; let's hope they can soldier on for as long as possible!

And on top of that, Kolles might be a consummate professional, but he is not the sort of figure who many would publicly sympathise with, having garnered a reputation for being "hard headed" and uncooperative. Many of the driver changes through the season seemed somewhat arbitrary, and not particularly well planned, making the team look disorganised at times.

Yamamoto, for example, only found out that he would be driving in Silverstone on Thursday night, hours before the first practise session, and throughout the rest of the season, this was a trend that was repeated. No explanation has ever been given for Yamamoto's appearance at Silverstone (not even to the drivers - Yamamoto was simply told to turn up and drive), but the fact that it coincided with rumours that Bruno Senna had criticized the teams lack of organisation and progress in an internal e-mail made the change look like a piece of petty revenge.

Either way, making literally last minute changes to your driver line up does not look like good practise, especially when you either put out transparently false statements (like Yamamoto supposedly being ill in Singapore, whilst turning up the the track looking completely normal and slightly cross), or just don't bother trying to explain why at all.

And, on top of that, there was the highly acrimonious relationship with Dallara, which ended up with Dallara essentially disowning the car (they make almost no mention of the car at all, and where they do mention it, it wasn't exactly with pride). Managing to annoy one of the most highly renowned chassis makers in the world of motorsport - a company which is crushingly dominant in Formula 3, which built the chassis for the Audi R8 (a five times Le Mans winner) and now produces the current GP2 car - didn't help. Although I do concede that there were probably faults on the side of Dallara too, the angry exchanges in the press hurt what became HRT badly (although most of those problems were inherited from Campos, who was out of his depth), and gave the company a reputation as bad customers.
The fact that they were very late to pay their bills during the season (reputedly being one of the the worst debtors, with some payments up to 180 days late) only made their reputation worse (even though they were no worse a debtor than Lotus Racing, because of what happened in the pre season, HRT have ended up with the worst reputation).
On top of that, they were fined more times during the season than any other team for procedural errors, making them look foolish at times, or downright dangerous (for example, for sending mechanics out of the pitlane to recover tyre blankets they'd left on the car, and for unsafe pitlane activities after that mechanic was knocked over in Monza).

All in all, although HRT haven't been the worst team compared to teams in the past, these days the expectations from the press and other teams is much higher, and HRT did not meet those expectations. And, on top of that, they haven't endeared themselves to either the FIA, because of their misdemeanours, or to FOM, because of their image (whether or not warranted) of incompetence.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
Peter
Posts: 780
Joined: 06 Nov 2010, 00:45
Location: Kingston, Jamaica

Re: The HRT thread

Post by Peter »

If the FIA allowed testing, these newbies wouldn't ahve been complete rubbish. New teams should be allowed a certain amount of testing in the year before they join, os they should also know wen they are joining much sooner. That would really make them join and have some experience already. So HRT, Lotus and Virgin would've been around Torro Rosso pace.
"The FIA's implementation of penalties is about as effective as that of the English football team."
User avatar
mario
Posts: 8107
Joined: 31 Oct 2009, 17:13

Re: The HRT thread

Post by mario »

Peter wrote:If the FIA allowed testing, these newbies wouldn't ahve been complete rubbish. New teams should be allowed a certain amount of testing in the year before they join, os they should also know wen they are joining much sooner. That would really make them join and have some experience already. So HRT, Lotus and Virgin would've been around Torro Rosso pace.

There is pre-season testing, which Lotus Racing and Virgin Racing both attended in 2010 - although Virgin Racing was handicapped by reliability problems, Lotus Racing racked up a lot of testing mileage (in the order of 1,100km, which was comparable to the mileage that the established teams covered). This year, with the addition of a fourth test in Bahrain (because Pirelli are testing as many different compounds they can bring, so they have a better idea of how each tyre performs over a stint), the covered mileage in testing could be even higher.
Then, during the race weekends, there are the practise sessions, where the drivers can rack up a lot of mileage - consider that the drivers often do a few lengthy stints at the track to test tyre wear, they typically rack up about 45 laps at a particular venue before the race itself.

On a second note, though, the whole point of imposing a testing ban was to prevent the larger teams from simply continuously testing throughout the year. Ferrari, for example, would run test sessions literally all day at Maranello, with Badoer, Barrichello and Schumacher racking up as many or more miles during the off season then they covered during the season itself. By comparison, a team like Minardi or Jordan could never afford to cover that sort of mileage, so the gap between the front runners and the back markers was remaining static, or widening, as a result.
Testing is effective at getting the data you need, but very expensive; even the post season Pirelli test session at Abu Dhabi, with scaled back race crews (quite a few teams ran just one car), cost the teams in the order of several hundred thousand dollars. Even if you allowed the new teams to test, I doubt that they would have actually done that much additional testing, simply because of the cost.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
User avatar
DanielPT
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 6126
Joined: 30 Dec 2010, 18:44
Location: Porto, Portugal

Re: The HRT thread

Post by DanielPT »

True, mario. Testing is expensive and, worst of all, it is not even covered by TV so there is no point in sponsors paying it, even if it was the only way for a team be competitive. It is already hard for them to pay given that the only coverage is when your car gets lapped, crashes into things or simply blows up. I think the best way would be having a thursday afternoon 3 hour only-rookies-or-young-test-drivers-allowed practice session, that way, not only new teams get more mileage, but also gives the established teams test drivers something to do while encoraging this teams to give some chance to young drivers.
Colin Kolles on F111, 2011 HRT challenger: The car doesn't look too bad; it looks like a modern F1 car.
Faustus
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 2073
Joined: 30 Mar 2009, 20:23
Location: UK

Re: The HRT thread

Post by Faustus »

DanielPT wrote:True, mario. Testing is expensive and, worst of all, it is not even covered by TV so there is no point in sponsors paying it, even if it was the only way for a team be competitive. It is already hard for them to pay given that the only coverage is when your car gets lapped, crashes into things or simply blows up. I think the best way would be having a thursday afternoon 3 hour only-rookies-or-young-test-drivers-allowed practice session, that way, not only new teams get more mileage, but also gives the established teams test drivers something to do while encoraging this teams to give some chance to young drivers.


I think it should be one step further, with free testing on thursday. The teams are already there, all the equipment and material are there and the garages are fully set-up by then, so everything is ready to go.
Following Formula 1 since 1984.
Avid collector of Formula 1 season guides and reviews.
Collector of reject merchandise and 1/43rd scale reject model cars.
Peter
Posts: 780
Joined: 06 Nov 2010, 00:45
Location: Kingston, Jamaica

Re: The HRT thread

Post by Peter »

Faustus wrote:
DanielPT wrote:True, mario. Testing is expensive and, worst of all, it is not even covered by TV so there is no point in sponsors paying it, even if it was the only way for a team be competitive. It is already hard for them to pay given that the only coverage is when your car gets lapped, crashes into things or simply blows up. I think the best way would be having a thursday afternoon 3 hour only-rookies-or-young-test-drivers-allowed practice session, that way, not only new teams get more mileage, but also gives the established teams test drivers something to do while encoraging this teams to give some chance to young drivers.


I think it should be one step further, with free testing on thursday. The teams are already there, all the equipment and material are there and the garages are fully set-up by then, so everything is ready to go.


I support this. Let's mail a letter to Mr. Todt straight away.
"The FIA's implementation of penalties is about as effective as that of the English football team."
Phoenix
Posts: 7986
Joined: 21 Apr 2009, 13:58

Re: The HRT thread

Post by Phoenix »

My proposal would be for the FIA (or FOTA, it's all the same) to organize collective testing sessions for every team, with a limited mileage allotted for each test. If any team is in monetary troubles the FIA (or FOTA) could help those teams lending them some money for them to participate in the sessions. There would be a limited number of those sessions. That way, you have testing and all teams are on equal billing. No probems at all :D
User avatar
LucaPacchiarini
Posts: 328
Joined: 21 Jan 2010, 14:41

Re: The HRT thread

Post by LucaPacchiarini »

Phoenix wrote:My proposal would be for the FIA (or FOTA, it's all the same) to organize collective testing sessions for every team, with a limited mileage allotted for each test. If any team is in monetary troubles the FIA (or FOTA) could help those teams lending them some money for them to participate in the sessions. There would be a limited number of those sessions. That way, you have testing and all teams are on equal billing. No probems at all :D



Communism! :twisted:

:lol:
..I'm the member number 666 on this forum... I'm doomed to rejectdom
"Giovanni Lavaggi Draiver is a big, bigger than people think"
(Giancarlo Minardi, on his former driver Giovanni Lavaggi)
User avatar
europeanminardi
Posts: 67
Joined: 31 Mar 2009, 12:42
Location: Zuerich, Switzerland

Re: The HRT thread

Post by europeanminardi »

I often think "why haven't I enjoyed F1 more before I became a fan in 2002? I missed the Pacific/Forti/Simtek years".

Now, since the F1R podcast exists, we have seen a true reject team (SUPER AGURI) come and go and I have the bad feeling I didn't enjoy them enough while they were there.

Therefore, I will from now on support H R T with all my heart. It's like this team is 15 years too late, isn't it?

- the idea came from a former reject, the honourable Adrian Campos, formerly of Minardi
- they have a customer chassis and a Dallara one, too. I think Dallara never really covered themselves with F1 glory...
- for their second season, they will use a car that was galaxies off pace already last year
- their team head has only experience in keeping teams afloat. has he ever worked for a team that was not running last or second but last in the championship?
- they bring back Narain Karthikeyan (that alone makes me feel five years younger and I thank them for that).
- the drivers and the team are sueing each other

I mean, how much better could it get? Will they ever actually qualify for a Grand Prix now that the 107% rule is back?

We have to enjoy every minute of there existence as long as it lasts...
Peter
Posts: 780
Joined: 06 Nov 2010, 00:45
Location: Kingston, Jamaica

Re: The HRT thread

Post by Peter »

europeanminardi wrote:I often think "why haven't I enjoyed F1 more before I became a fan in 2002? I missed the Pacific/Forti/Simtek years".

Now, since the F1R podcast exists, we have seen a true reject team (SUPER AGURI) come and go and I have the bad feeling I didn't enjoy them enough while they were there.

Therefore, I will from now on support H R T with all my heart. It's like this team is 15 years too late, isn't it?

- the idea came from a former reject, the honourable Adrian Campos, formerly of Minardi
- they have a customer chassis and a Dallara one, too. I think Dallara never really covered themselves with F1 glory...
- for their second season, they will use a car that was galaxies off pace already last year
- their team head has only experience in keeping teams afloat. has he ever worked for a team that was not running last or second but last in the championship?
- they bring back Narain Karthikeyan (that alone makes me feel five years younger and I thank them for that).
- the drivers and the team are sueing each other

I mean, how much better could it get? Will they ever actually qualify for a Grand Prix now that the 107% rule is back?

We have to enjoy every minute of there existence as long as it lasts...


HRT will have a new car for next year. Whether there will be any major improvements or not. And besides, for almost all the races in 2010, all teams were within the 107% rule.
"The FIA's implementation of penalties is about as effective as that of the English football team."
User avatar
the Masked Lapwing
Posts: 4204
Joined: 10 Sep 2010, 09:38
Location: Oran Park Raceway

Re: The HRT thread

Post by the Masked Lapwing »

Peter wrote:
europeanminardi wrote:I often think "why haven't I enjoyed F1 more before I became a fan in 2002? I missed the Pacific/Forti/Simtek years".

Now, since the F1R podcast exists, we have seen a true reject team (SUPER AGURI) come and go and I have the bad feeling I didn't enjoy them enough while they were there.

Therefore, I will from now on support H R T with all my heart. It's like this team is 15 years too late, isn't it?

- the idea came from a former reject, the honourable Adrian Campos, formerly of Minardi
- they have a customer chassis and a Dallara one, too. I think Dallara never really covered themselves with F1 glory...
- for their second season, they will use a car that was galaxies off pace already last year
- their team head has only experience in keeping teams afloat. has he ever worked for a team that was not running last or second but last in the championship?
- they bring back Narain Karthikeyan (that alone makes me feel five years younger and I thank them for that).
- the drivers and the team are sueing each other

I mean, how much better could it get? Will they ever actually qualify for a Grand Prix now that the 107% rule is back?

We have to enjoy every minute of there existence as long as it lasts...


HRT will have a new car for next year. Whether there will be any major improvements or not. And besides, for almost all the races in 2010, all teams were within the 107% rule.

Really?
R.I.P.
GM HOLDEN
1948-2017
User avatar
mario
Posts: 8107
Joined: 31 Oct 2009, 17:13

Re: The HRT thread

Post by mario »

the Masked Lapwing wrote:
Peter wrote:
europeanminardi wrote:I often think "why haven't I enjoyed F1 more before I became a fan in 2002? I missed the Pacific/Forti/Simtek years".

Now, since the F1R podcast exists, we have seen a true reject team (SUPER AGURI) come and go and I have the bad feeling I didn't enjoy them enough while they were there.

Therefore, I will from now on support H R T with all my heart. It's like this team is 15 years too late, isn't it?

- the idea came from a former reject, the honourable Adrian Campos, formerly of Minardi
- they have a customer chassis and a Dallara one, too. I think Dallara never really covered themselves with F1 glory...
- for their second season, they will use a car that was galaxies off pace already last year
- their team head has only experience in keeping teams afloat. has he ever worked for a team that was not running last or second but last in the championship?
- they bring back Narain Karthikeyan (that alone makes me feel five years younger and I thank them for that).
- the drivers and the team are sueing each other

I mean, how much better could it get? Will they ever actually qualify for a Grand Prix now that the 107% rule is back?

We have to enjoy every minute of there existence as long as it lasts...


HRT will have a new car for next year. Whether there will be any major improvements or not. And besides, for almost all the races in 2010, all teams were within the 107% rule.

Really?

It would explain why HRT are planning on using their current car for the first test in Valencia, and an interim car for Jerez.

In some ways, it makes things easier to work with a car already designed around the Cosworth engine, and (I think) using a conventional diffuser instead of a DDD. However, when their rivals are able to work with new cars that are better optimised to the 2011 regulations, perhaps the only benefit HRT might have is reliability - and even then perhaps not that, if they have to resort to using old parts.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
User avatar
DanielPT
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 6126
Joined: 30 Dec 2010, 18:44
Location: Porto, Portugal

Re: The HRT thread

Post by DanielPT »

HRT is truly epic! :mrgreen:

It makes me wonder if Max Mosley has once visited F1Rejects and decided to contribute with new material for the web site...
Colin Kolles on F111, 2011 HRT challenger: The car doesn't look too bad; it looks like a modern F1 car.
Phoenix
Posts: 7986
Joined: 21 Apr 2009, 13:58

Re: The HRT thread

Post by Phoenix »

Of course it's true they were within 107% rule almost always this season, but for 2011 everyone will have improved, and I just can't see how a car that was quite off the pace already will be able to post times in qualifying inside 107% of the fastest time set, much more so with Narain Karthikeyan, a driver that was quite slow in 2005 and haven't driven an F1 car since 2006. Maybe they will have very good reliability, but what's the point if they can't qualify for many races, if for any I dare to say? Well, at least they will contest pre-season testing this time :lol:
User avatar
Henrique
Posts: 669
Joined: 30 Mar 2009, 03:48
Location: Portugal

Re: The HRT thread

Post by Henrique »

Updating the car instead of building a new one is a bad sign. That's what poor teams usually do when they're on their last years. They'll probably update it enough to qualify, but they'll continue to finish last every single time.

Karthikeyan was more reckless than slow back in 2005. He had some experience in open-wheels after F1, so maybe he improved a bit. I'm not saying he'll shine, but I think a lot of you are being too pessimistic about him.
User avatar
MaxZero
Posts: 166
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 19:08

Re: The HRT thread

Post by MaxZero »

well bear in mind the first Force India was the year before's Spyker, may not have scored any points but they clawed more and more time back as the season went on. Improvements with this approach aren't impossible


Kolles has "categorically denied" the suggestion that they were kicked out of FOTA, should be interesting to see this one plays out
Peter
Posts: 780
Joined: 06 Nov 2010, 00:45
Location: Kingston, Jamaica

Re: The HRT thread

Post by Peter »

Can we rename the HRT thread, "the best team on the grid thread"?
"The FIA's implementation of penalties is about as effective as that of the English football team."
User avatar
DanielPT
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 6126
Joined: 30 Dec 2010, 18:44
Location: Porto, Portugal

Re: The HRT thread

Post by DanielPT »

Peter wrote:Can we rename the HRT thread, "the best team on the grid thread"?


Let's not forget Virgin. They are rejects and pretty good at it too, despite not making that much noise. Any team having classified behind HRT at season end deserves to be looked at. I think Virgin was also the first team to have run a single car for a long time, since I cannot recall them having a second car! :lol:
Colin Kolles on F111, 2011 HRT challenger: The car doesn't look too bad; it looks like a modern F1 car.
User avatar
AndreaModa
Posts: 5806
Joined: 30 Mar 2009, 17:51
Location: Bristol, UK

Re: The HRT thread

Post by AndreaModa »

DanielPT wrote:
Peter wrote:Can we rename the HRT thread, "the best team on the grid thread"?


Let's not forget Virgin. They are rejects and pretty good at it too, despite not making that much noise. Any team having classified behind HRT at season end deserves to be looked at. I think Virgin was also the first team to have run a single car for a long time, since I cannot recall them having a second car! :lol:


Damn right let's not forget Virgin! :lol:

HRT continue to make the headlines on Autosport, this time it's the continuing saga with the FOTA fees, apparently they'd already paid half and offered to pay the rest when they left...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88922

Interesting stuff, wonder how it will pan out now?
I want my MTV...Simtek Ford

My Motorsport Photos

@DNPQ_
User avatar
mario
Posts: 8107
Joined: 31 Oct 2009, 17:13

Re: The HRT thread

Post by mario »

Hmm, thanks for the link, AndreaModa, because what initially looked like a fairly straightforward story might have a more intriguing background.

For the moment, I, like most people, would have put the dispute down to non payment of the entry fee; most of the sources and rumours had suggested that was the case, and that very article you've linked to has a quote from Whitmarsh (who is FOTA's current manager) saying that is the case.

However, this suggestion that HRT's departure was prompted by a dispute over drafting up a new version of the Concorde Agreement which offered teams outside of the top 10 better commercial terms is interesting. It's true that the division of FOM's TV revenues amongst the teams has been historically weighted towards the top teams, and those at the top are going to resist any changes which eats into their revenue.
It's not for nothing that Red Bull are now being accused of disrupting the latest negotiations for the Resource Restriction Agreement - they've reached the point where they are as big as, or even bigger, than the traditional power brokers (their budget for 2011 is very healthy according to Auto Motor Und Sport - potentially as much as €330 million http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 92022.html ).

Now that they are at the top, they, like any other team, are going to try and use their position to get every possible advantage - which seems to be coming at the expense of those at the bottom of the heap.

Still, this is a very aggressive move by HRT to take, and it does seem odd that a team with seemingly no support from either the financiers or rule makers of Formula 1 would want to risk provoking a protracted argument with the more influential top teams. And surely having some leverage within FOTA would not be a bad idea.
Given that a 70% majority is needed (according to Whitmarsh) for proposals to go through, and that many of the FIA's recent rule changes and decisions have been influenced by FOTA, surely it would be better to work from within FOTA to garner support, not to be on the outside and having negligible leverage? And if FOTA really is so hostile to the new teams, and the situation so bad for those outside of the top 10, why is Virgin Racing not complaining?

All in all, there is something amiss here, I feel - and suspect that we might not have heard the last of this story just yet.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
User avatar
SuperAguri
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 2026
Joined: 30 Mar 2009, 01:27
Location: Rio, Brazil

Re: The HRT thread

Post by SuperAguri »

DanielPT wrote:True, mario. Testing is expensive and, worst of all, it is not even covered by TV so there is no point in sponsors paying it, even if it was the only way for a team be competitive. It is already hard for them to pay given that the only coverage is when your car gets lapped, crashes into things or simply blows up. I think the best way would be having a thursday afternoon 3 hour only-rookies-or-young-test-drivers-allowed practice session, that way, not only new teams get more mileage, but also gives the established teams test drivers something to do while encoraging this teams to give some chance to young drivers.


I think going back to the old days and having some pre season Race of Champions or non championship GPs would be fantastic.
<@Ataxia> these people are making a mess of their crepe suzettes
Phoenix
Posts: 7986
Joined: 21 Apr 2009, 13:58

Re: The HRT thread

Post by Phoenix »

SuperAguri wrote:
DanielPT wrote:True, mario. Testing is expensive and, worst of all, it is not even covered by TV so there is no point in sponsors paying it, even if it was the only way for a team be competitive. It is already hard for them to pay given that the only coverage is when your car gets lapped, crashes into things or simply blows up. I think the best way would be having a thursday afternoon 3 hour only-rookies-or-young-test-drivers-allowed practice session, that way, not only new teams get more mileage, but also gives the established teams test drivers something to do while encoraging this teams to give some chance to young drivers.


I think going back to the old days and having some pre season Race of Champions or non championship GPs would be fantastic.

Maybe yes, but probably both many drivers and teams would complain that the calendar is already too crowded for it to add more races. Besides, Bernie Ecclestone would not make enough of a profit from them.
User avatar
Waris
Posts: 1781
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 01:07
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

Re: The HRT thread

Post by Waris »

Phoenix wrote:
SuperAguri wrote:
DanielPT wrote:True, mario. Testing is expensive and, worst of all, it is not even covered by TV so there is no point in sponsors paying it, even if it was the only way for a team be competitive. It is already hard for them to pay given that the only coverage is when your car gets lapped, crashes into things or simply blows up. I think the best way would be having a thursday afternoon 3 hour only-rookies-or-young-test-drivers-allowed practice session, that way, not only new teams get more mileage, but also gives the established teams test drivers something to do while encoraging this teams to give some chance to young drivers.


I think going back to the old days and having some pre season Race of Champions or non championship GPs would be fantastic.

Maybe yes, but probably both many drivers and teams would complain that the calendar is already too crowded for it to add more races. Besides, Bernie Ecclestone would not make enough of a profit from them.


Instead, we should make a few of the current races non-championship, so we have 16 championship rounds and 4 non-championship races. That would be great!
MOTOR RACING IS DANGEROUS
User avatar
dr-baker
Posts: 15469
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 17:30
Location: Here and there.

Re: The HRT thread

Post by dr-baker »

Waris wrote:Instead, we should make a few of the current races non-championship, so we have 16 championship rounds and 4 non-championship races. That would be great!

Maybe no new countries/tracks could have a GP until they have held a non-championship F1 race. It would avoid the embarrassment Korea must have felt in the lead-up to their debut race last year!

Or else we could have a minor-state Winter series. For example:

1. San Marino GP at Imola
2. Luxembourg GP at the Nurburgring
3. Channel Islands (Jersey/Guernsey) GP at Brands Hatch
4. Manx GP either on the streets of Douglas or perhaps Anglesey, Wales (or perhaps Silverstone/Rockingham)*
5. Monaco GP as a sister event to the Monte Carlo Rally in January

* Yes I know I am obsessed with this idea, but only in the same way as Jamie and Enoch are with Vanuatu. And the Manx have an established motorsport scene already...
watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
MCard LOLA
User avatar
golic_2004
Posts: 918
Joined: 22 Dec 2010, 02:53
Location: Atlanta
Contact:

Re: The HRT thread

Post by golic_2004 »

dr-baker wrote:
Waris wrote:Instead, we should make a few of the current races non-championship, so we have 16 championship rounds and 4 non-championship races. That would be great!

Maybe no new countries/tracks could have a GP until they have held a non-championship F1 race. It would avoid the embarrassment Korea must have felt in the lead-up to their debut race last year!

Or else we could have a minor-state Winter series. For example:

1. San Marino GP at Imola
2. Luxembourg GP at the Nurburgring
3. Channel Islands (Jersey/Guernsey) GP at Brands Hatch
4. Manx GP either on the streets of Douglas or perhaps Anglesey, Wales (or perhaps Silverstone/Rockingham)*
5. Monaco GP as a sister event to the Monte Carlo Rally in January
6. US Grand Prix at Road Atlanta

* Yes I know I am obsessed with this idea, but only in the same way as Jamie and Enoch are with Vanuatu. And the Manx have an established motorsport scene already...


I added one to the list.
Williams in the last few years http://imgur.com/sNFFMYF
User avatar
dr-baker
Posts: 15469
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 17:30
Location: Here and there.

Re: The HRT thread

Post by dr-baker »

golic_2004 wrote:
dr-baker wrote:
Waris wrote:Instead, we should make a few of the current races non-championship, so we have 16 championship rounds and 4 non-championship races. That would be great!

Maybe no new countries/tracks could have a GP until they have held a non-championship F1 race. It would avoid the embarrassment Korea must have felt in the lead-up to their debut race last year!

Or else we could have a minor-state Winter series. For example:

1. San Marino GP at Imola
2. Luxembourg GP at the Nurburgring
3. Channel Islands (Jersey/Guernsey) GP at Brands Hatch
4. Manx GP either on the streets of Douglas or perhaps Anglesey, Wales (or perhaps Silverstone/Rockingham)*
5. Monaco GP as a sister event to the Monte Carlo Rally in January
6. US Grand Prix at Road Atlanta

* Yes I know I am obsessed with this idea, but only in the same way as Jamie and Enoch are with Vanuatu. And the Manx have an established motorsport scene already...


I added one to the list.


Not bad, although it does take it out of Europe. My choice of an off-season race in the US would actually be Martinsville. Having raced Martinsville in a NASCAR game, F1 round there could be... interesting.
watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
MCard LOLA
Post Reply