What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

madmark1974 · Post by **madmark1974** » 22 Feb 2011, 09:39

Wizzie wrote:Barcelona beyond 2012 in doubt

Discuss.

Ok then ...

I think, like most F1 fans that seeing the back of Barcelona wouldn't be a bad thing as the race is virtually always incredibly dull due to no overtaking, they've had a 20 year run
at the track, and the only thing most people remember is Mansell vs Senna's sparks-flying dice IN A STRAIGHT LINE 20 years ago!

So, where to instead? I guess there HAS to be a Spanish GP, so the only options currently available are Jerez and Valencia harbour? As I recall, Valencia is signed up for a few years yet
(2014?), so maybe make that the Spanish round for a few years and possibly upgrade Jerez or the 'proper' Valencia circuit (where MotoGP go) to switch there once Valencia harbour is done
with. This would also free up the European GP to go somewhere else.

Having said that, I can't see any better races coming from either of those two tracks, both are tight and twisty with little by way of straights, so would we really be better off without Barcelona?

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 22 Feb 2011, 23:43

this may have been said before but i'll say it again.
Come on FIA, GET YOUR BALLS BACK AND RACE AT JEREZ. DON'T JUST TEST THERE.

...or Montjuic or something.

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 22 Feb 2011, 23:48

nome66 wrote:this may have been said before but i'll say it again.
Come on FIA, GET YOUR BALLS BACK AND RACE AT JEREZ. DON'T JUST TEST THERE.

...or Montjuic or something.

Unfortunately, as much as I want the circus to return to Jerez, the racing would be just as unspectacular as at Catalunya. The cause, of course, is the fact that they've been testing there as much as they have been at Catalunya, which IMO is the reason why racing in Catalunya is so boring.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 23 Feb 2011, 05:59

Just build this circuit in South Africa:

And get instant FOREVER status.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 23 Feb 2011, 10:43

I think the best option is going back to Jerez. Both current tracks serve racing as dull as it can be in Europe (there is a special place for Bahrain in the dull hell). We saw what at the circuit of Catalunya since F1 went there was bad, but Valencia street circuit is much worse. If Jerez is not an option, why don't they make a decent street circuit in Barcelona? That would be nice.

P_Friesacher · Post by **P_Friesacher** » 23 Feb 2011, 11:03

And, at the risk of repeating myself, why not give fabulous Motorland Aragon a chance?

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 23 Feb 2011, 11:50

It has a license for F1? I saw in wikipedia that none other than the great Hermann Tilke designed it, so a certain degree of dullness is to be expected!

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 23 Feb 2011, 12:20

P_Friesacher wrote:And, at the risk of repeating myself, why not give fabulous Motorland Aragon a chance?

Because they've said no in the past. Bernie approached them three months before the Korean Grand Prix and asked if they'd be willing to take Korea's place if the circuit wasn't ready. They said no. They also only qualify for an FIA Grade-2 licence, so they'd need some work done to get a Grade-1.

And besides, with all this talk of only-one-race-per-country, why the hell are we about to give Spain a third race? The creation of the European Grand Prix in Valencia to capitalise on the success and popularity of Fernando Alonso has largely failed (probably because he's been useless at home since the race was created). This isn't MotoGP.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 23 Feb 2011, 12:50

Captain Hammer wrote:
P_Friesacher wrote:And, at the risk of repeating myself, why not give fabulous Motorland Aragon a chance?

Because they've said no in the past. Bernie approached them three months before the Korean Grand Prix and asked if they'd be willing to take Korea's place if the circuit wasn't ready. They said no. They also only qualify for an FIA Grade-2 licence, so they'd need some work done to get a Grade-1.

And besides, with all this talk of only-one-race-per-country, why the hell are we about to give Spain a third race? The creation of the European Grand Prix in Valencia to capitalise on the success and popularity of Fernando Alonso has largely failed (probably because he's been useless at home since the race was created). This isn't MotoGP.

We weren't giving Spain a third race. We were scrapping both the existing ones and finding an alternative venue, hence the suggestion of Motorland Aragon...

Post by **mario** » 23 Feb 2011, 13:36

Captain Hammer wrote:
P_Friesacher wrote:And, at the risk of repeating myself, why not give fabulous Motorland Aragon a chance?

Because they've said no in the past. Bernie approached them three months before the Korean Grand Prix and asked if they'd be willing to take Korea's place if the circuit wasn't ready. They said no. They also only qualify for an FIA Grade-2 licence, so they'd need some work done to get a Grade-1.

And besides, with all this talk of only-one-race-per-country, why the hell are we about to give Spain a third race? The creation of the European Grand Prix in Valencia to capitalise on the success and popularity of Fernando Alonso has largely failed (probably because he's been useless at home since the race was created). This isn't MotoGP.

Just out of curiosity, where did you hear about Bernie approaching Motorland Aragon as a stand by for the Korean GP? I would not be surprised if Bernie had been asking a number of venues if they would be willing to hold the race if Korea wasn't ready in time, including Motorland Aragon.
However, if Motorland Aragon only holds a Grade 2 licence, why would he have approached them when there are many other circuits in the Iberian Peninsular that hold Grade 1 or Grade 1T licences (such as Jerez, Estoril, Portimao etc.)? Surely it would have made things more complicated than necessary to race there?

And regarding Alonso, his results at the Valencian circuit have been a retirement in 2008 when Nakajima crashed into the back of him, 6th place in 2009 (which, given that the R29 could be charitably described as useless, is actually not that bad a result), and a debatable 8th place following the deployment of the safety car last year. Not stunning results, sure, but given that two years out of three he had to drive uncompetitive cars after Renault botched their designs (due to incorrect data from a miscalibrated wind tunnel), it's not surprising that he didn't do well.

P_Friesacher · Post by **P_Friesacher** » 23 Feb 2011, 14:51

Sorry if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that Aragon had a Grade 1T licence.

Alianora La Canta · Post by **Alianora La Canta** » 23 Feb 2011, 15:55

Same here. Aragon was built partly to attract F1 testing, but it never intended to go for a race due to the financial equations involved (i.e. not great for the organisers), which would explain why it wouldn't have been interested in being Korea's understudy.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 23 Feb 2011, 22:16

nome66 wrote:this may have been said before but i'll say it again.
Come on FIA, GET YOUR BALLS BACK AND RACE AT JEREZ. DON'T JUST TEST THERE.

WOOHOO! HIGH FIVE!

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 25 Feb 2011, 07:53

Wizzie wrote:Barcelona beyond 2012 in doubt

Discuss.

PLEEEEEEEASE

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 25 Feb 2011, 22:09

thehemogoblin wrote:
Wizzie wrote:Barcelona beyond 2012 in doubt

Discuss.

PLEEEEEEEASE

A Spanish newspaper said Ecclestone was telling Montmeló directives it was Valencia under threat, and in the reverse. Honestly, I don't really care which one will get the boot...

watka · Post by **watka** » 26 Feb 2011, 20:13

How about Navarra for a new Spanish GP?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSJEP8XB5S4

Really like the uphill final turn.

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 26 Feb 2011, 22:50

or bring back argentina with San Luis.

http://www.gt1world.com/calendar/circuit/san-luis

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 27 Feb 2011, 03:51

Phoenix wrote:
thehemogoblin wrote:
Wizzie wrote:Barcelona beyond 2012 in doubt

Discuss.

PLEEEEEEEASE

A Spanish newspaper said Ecclestone was telling Montmeló directives it was Valencia under threat, and in the reverse. Honestly, I don't really care which one will get the boot...

Not going to happen. One of Bernie's favourite tactics is to play one circuit off another to get them to do what he wants. He's variously done it to Silverstone, Interlagos and Sepang in the past; odds are that both circuits will up their game and fall in line with his demands.

watka wrote:How about Navarra for a new Spanish GP?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSJEP8XB5S4

That's a monster pit lane.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 16 Mar 2011, 09:59

Aussie GP "As Important as Monaco" says Mr Ecclestone.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 16 Mar 2011, 10:08

Wizzie wrote:Aussie GP "As Important as Monaco" says Mr Ecclestone.

Typical Mr Ecclestone... Going from the "if we have to leave then we leave Australia" to "As important as Monaco"!

Post by **mario** » 16 Mar 2011, 10:36

DanielPT wrote:
Wizzie wrote:Aussie GP "As Important as Monaco" says Mr Ecclestone.

Typical Mr Ecclestone... Going from the "if we have to leave then we leave Australia" to "As important as Monaco"!

Typical, yes, but his sudden change of heart might also be explained by the fact that, a few days earlier, Jean Todt had publicly endorsed the Australian GP, talking at length about the importance of the race for the region and for Formula 1. http://en.espnf1.com/australia/motorspo ... 43275.html
So, it is possible that a few people from the FIA have been in touch with Bernie to encourage him to change his stance...

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 16 Mar 2011, 13:41

mario wrote:
DanielPT wrote:
Wizzie wrote:Aussie GP "As Important as Monaco" says Mr Ecclestone.

Typical Mr Ecclestone... Going from the "if we have to leave then we leave Australia" to "As important as Monaco"!

Typical, yes, but his sudden change of heart might also be explained by the fact that, a few days earlier, Jean Todt had publicly endorsed the Australian GP, talking at length about the importance of the race for the region and for Formula 1. http://en.espnf1.com/australia/motorspo ... 43275.html
So, it is possible that a few people from the FIA have been in touch with Bernie to encourage him to change his stance...

But I believe it was the Australian government who wanted out because it was too expensive and they could not justify the expenditure to the citizenship?

the Masked Lapwing · Post by **the Masked Lapwing** » 16 Mar 2011, 21:06

Phoenix wrote:
mario wrote:
DanielPT wrote:Typical Mr Ecclestone... Going from the "if we have to leave then we leave Australia" to "As important as Monaco"!

Typical, yes, but his sudden change of heart might also be explained by the fact that, a few days earlier, Jean Todt had publicly endorsed the Australian GP, talking at length about the importance of the race for the region and for Formula 1. http://en.espnf1.com/australia/motorspo ... 43275.html
So, it is possible that a few people from the FIA have been in touch with Bernie to encourage him to change his stance...

But I believe it was the Australian government who wanted out because it was too expensive and they could not justify the expenditure to the citizenship?

Victorian government actually. State governments must really hate motorsport - the Liberals running for the NSW government want to drop the Sydney 500, only because it'll help them get some votes from a few people around Homebush. Bloody politicians...

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 17 Mar 2011, 10:14

Shell becomes title sponsor for Belgian GP.

Could this mean the GP is safe in the medium term?

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 17 Mar 2011, 10:34

Wizzie wrote:Shell becomes title sponsor for Belgian GP.

Could this mean the GP is safe in the medium term?

I certainly hope that in Bernie's mind it is second only to Monaco and Australia in terms of importance to F1! :mrgreen:

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 17 Mar 2011, 20:15

Can we go back to Magny cours???

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 17 Mar 2011, 20:20

WeirdKerr wrote:Can we go back to Magny cours???

Why would we want to do that? Abiding memories are of a general lack of memories.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 17 Mar 2011, 20:20

WeirdKerr wrote:Can we go back to Dijon?

Fixed.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 17 Mar 2011, 20:46

Talking of Dijon, do we want to go back to Bremgarten?

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 17 Mar 2011, 20:57

madmark1974 wrote: I think, like most F1 fans that seeing the back of Barcelona wouldn't be a bad thing as the race is virtually always incredibly dull due to no overtaking, they've had a 20 year run at the track, and the only thing most people remember is Mansell vs Senna's sparks-flying dice IN A STRAIGHT LINE 20 years ago!

Right, because over the last 20 years the track has been ruined. First it was when La Caixa was changed, and then they added that RIDICULOUS chicane before New Holland.

If we're going to bring back the French Grand Prix, Paul Ricard is the only place I can think of that would produce decent racing. It doesn't hurt that the track is one of the safest in the world either.

Post by **mario** » 17 Mar 2011, 22:12

F1000X wrote:
madmark1974 wrote: I think, like most F1 fans that seeing the back of Barcelona wouldn't be a bad thing as the race is virtually always incredibly dull due to no overtaking, they've had a 20 year run at the track, and the only thing most people remember is Mansell vs Senna's sparks-flying dice IN A STRAIGHT LINE 20 years ago!

Right, because over the last 20 years the track has been ruined. First it was when La Caixa was changed, and then they added that RIDICULOUS chicane before New Holland.

If we're going to bring back the French Grand Prix, Paul Ricard is the only place I can think of that would produce decent racing. It doesn't hurt that the track is one of the safest in the world either.

It's the only other track in France at the moment where F1 cars can test - which reminds me, why is it that, despite the fact that the track is a permanent testing facility for motorsport, Formula 1 teams no longer test at Paul Ricard? Paul Ricard is technically capable of hosting a race, but - and there always is a but - it does have some drawbacks.
The thing is, Paul Ricard really lacks the supporting infrastructure for a race - the seating facilities are minimal compared to other tracks, nor is it really set up to cope with the sizeable media following that F1 now has. I'm sure that the money could be found, but the other issue is that Bernie owns Paul Ricard - and I hate to say it, but I don't think that he wants to have to invest heavily into the track, and pay FOM money for a race.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 17 Mar 2011, 22:14

WeirdKerr wrote:Can we go back to Magny cours???

Meh

Paul Ricard is better

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 17 Mar 2011, 22:33

shinji wrote:
WeirdKerr wrote:Can we go back to Magny cours???

Why would we want to do that? Abiding memories are of a general lack of memories.

was being sarcastic.....

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 18 Mar 2011, 00:28

JeremyMcClean wrote:
WeirdKerr wrote:Can we go back to Magny cours???

Meh

Paul Ricard is better

indeed....

POW 2 layouts right off the bat. i'm on a roll

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 18 Mar 2011, 03:15

Only two?

Paul Ricard has over fifty possible configurations.

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 18 Mar 2011, 09:53

These are the only two I could think of that are under 2.9-3 miles long. Otherwise Bernie might get bored and change the ru...... oh yeah he did already.

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 22 Apr 2011, 08:31

Bernie is said to have doubled the fee for Istambul Park to get onto the calendar from 2012 onwards if the Turkish promoter wants to continue the GP. So the negotiations for a new deal for Kurtkoy have started. This year's race could be the last at the circuit.

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news ... 42202.html

golic_2004 · Post by **golic_2004** » 22 Apr 2011, 11:26

Yannick wrote:Bernie is said to have doubled the fee for Istambul Park to get onto the calendar from 2012 onwards if the Turkish promoter wants to continue the GP. So the negotiations for a new deal for Kurtkoy have started. This year's race could be the last at the circuit.

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news ... 42202.html

Sucks for Turkey

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 22 Apr 2011, 11:36

Yannick wrote:Bernie is said to have doubled the fee for Istambul Park to get onto the calendar from 2012 onwards if the Turkish promoter wants to continue the GP. So the negotiations for a new deal for Kurtkoy have started. This year's race could be the last at the circuit.

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news ... 42202.html

But Istanbul is an absolutely brilliant track. :cry:

MaxZero · Post by **MaxZero** » 22 Apr 2011, 12:25

Never found the races in Turkey that fun to watch, turn 8 on-board is fun the first few times and there were a few Hamilton moves when he did 3 stops over everyone else's two that i can remember but other than that (and Fisi's hattrick of turn 1 brain farts) the venue has been very un-remarkable in my view

I wouldn't miss it