The title fight thread

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 11 Oct 2010, 13:46

This is it people, 3 races to go. Nail-biting stuff, nothing like last year.

Ahead of us: a racetrack nobody has been to; a place where Mark won last year; a place where Vettel dominated in 2009. Any reasons it should be different? Vettel and his infantile errors under pressure, Mark's luck potentially catching up with him - and the lingering question if he really believes he can do it?

The Ferrari may well be competitive in Brazil, where straight line speed matters and there's not enough of those mid-high speed corners where the RB6 is just dominant. And you just know that Alonso will go 5% above the car's potential all the time - but will the engines hold?

And let's not forget the McLarens either. Lewis' qualifying in Japan has shown just how much he can transcend the laws of physics at times.

So, betting men and women: which way is it going to be? I'm going Webber.

madmark1974 · Post by **madmark1974** » 11 Oct 2010, 14:07

You have to believe that Hamilton will get at least one podium in one of the remaining 3 races, which then means one of the top 3 will be disadvantaged by McLaren at least one time.

I can't see the Mclaren being competitive enough to be racing Red Bull for wins, Hamilton has been known to pick one off on several occasions but not both regularly, and he'd need Jenson
as back-up and he's just not got the pace at the moment, so I can only see a 4th / 5th for McLaren, sadly.

As for Alonso, to be honest he's not really had to 'race' much this season, how many times has he actually overtaken a Red Bull or McLaren, usually he's either got a better car and finishes
ahead, or settles for the points behind. He's going to have to race the Red Bulls and win, based on their usually qualifying ahead. I can't see Massa being in a position to help either.

So I'm seeing it as an inter-Red Bull battle really, and though both drivers have had races where everything has gone right and they've just cleared off at the front, equally they've both had
races where it's all gone wrong and they've hit something/someone/each other (

). You get the feeling Vettel is a bit faster but more error-prone, whereas Mark is driving safely and picking
up the points, can he produce another Monaco-esque race or two, or will Hamilton and/or Alonso sneak ahead a couple of times so Vettel can close the gap?

I think I'll say Vettel, though I rather anyone except him or Alonso win to be honest. Mark as the people's champion?

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 11 Oct 2010, 14:25

CarlosFerreira wrote:a place where Vettel dominated in 2009.

I'm assuming that you meean this to represent Abu Dhabi, which I believe Hamilton was dominating last year until his brakes gave out.

Anyway, in the championship, I don't think McLaren have the pace necessary to continue taking the fight to Red Bull and Ferrari any more. Hamilton can continue to pull out cracking laps in qualifying, and McLaren will be bringing upgrades to Korea, so he might well spoil the front three there, but he'll need to be properly lucky with retirements to get back in the fight. I'm pretty much writing Button out of this one; though I'd like to see him repeat, he'll need similar luck to Hamilton, and he doesn't have the ultimate pace on his side either.

The momentum is with Vettel and Alonso now, and while you like to have momentum, you can't afford to share it in this situation. I can see both drivers taking points off each other, which will do Mark Webber no harm at all. In fact, I'd go as far as saying that this season is currently Webber's to lose; he's got the car, the mindset, a decent lead, enough speed, and, for once, the luck on his side. Hopefully he can take advantage of that.

coops · Post by **coops** » 11 Oct 2010, 15:00

Firstly, I cant believe the seasons nearly over already and secondly I still wouldnt like to put money on who could win it. With the Mclaren drivers now needing snookers to get back in the game I think they'll find the spotlight has moved off them, which might help matters. Out of Webber, Vettel and Alonso I have no idea but Ive a suspicion that while the Red Bull drivers may take lumps out of each other Alonso will grimly hang on in there picking up points and may possibly snatch the crown at the last race.

But I would like Mark Webber to prove me wrong, he deserves it for still being the kind of guy you'd enjoy a few beers with.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 11 Oct 2010, 15:04

coops wrote:The Red Bull drivers may take lumps out of each other Alonso will grimly hang on in there picking up points and may possibly snatch the crown at the last race.

Doesn't this remind you of 2007, where Alonso and Hamilton battled each other and in the end, Kimi won in the last race?

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 11 Oct 2010, 15:15

CarlosFerreira wrote:The Ferrari may well be competitive in Brazil, where straight line speed matters and there's not enough of those mid-high speed corners where the RB6 is just dominant. And you just know that Alonso will go 5% above the car's potential all the time - but will the engines hold?

Add that if anywhere, in Brazil Massa will be there also to back up the Spaniard and take away points from the others.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 11 Oct 2010, 21:50

I really believe in Alonso, but Webber also has a very big stab at this. Vettel may not be able to catch up, and the McLarens seem to be weaker than the Ferraris and Red Bulls. But Hamilton can come with a surprise; at this point, he should be able to manage pressure very well (no more 2007/2008 stuff). Button just seems too conservative for me to think he'll succesfully defend his title.

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 11 Oct 2010, 22:28

I have a terrible gut feeling that Vettel will pinch the title from under Webber's nose at Abu Dhabi, such that the only time Sebastian will have led the championship this year is right when it counts - at the finish line.

There. I've said it.

(Just as Dario Franchitti did it to Will Power in the last round of the Indycar series, and just as Mikhail Aleshin did it to Daniel Ricciardo in the last round of FR3.5 on the weekend - although the difference there is that Ricciardo had been chasing Aleshin all season rather than the other way around.)

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 11 Oct 2010, 23:21

I think it's going to end up being Fernando Alonso. Just a hunch.

Benetton · Post by **Benetton** » 11 Oct 2010, 23:32

Alonso, Button and Hamilton have one great advantage in this bought; they have been champions, so they know the pressure. It's at times like these those experiences count. Webber, Vettel or even Red Bull has not been in the championship fight ever, and as we have seen their minds can melt into breakdowns, although we have not seen that lately. Let's round this up track by track, driver by driver.

KOREA - An unknown circuit. It's anybody's game. If the asphalt causes a lot of tyre wear, I could see Button still keeping his hopes up, but that's really the only chance he's got, or rain. Yeah, how's the weather in Korean btw?? This can seriously go absolutely either way, but the McLarens need to bring it for real now. Hamilton will have a crash or win attitude here.

BRAZIL - A good circuit for all the cars. However, I do think RB has a slight advantage. Jens could do a high downforce setup ala Monza.. who knows?? Plus, Brazilian weather will make this a grand prix to remember. Anyone remember qualifying from last year?? And yeah, watch out for Renault and Massa at this track.

ABU DHABI - Hamilton was very fast here last year. The RB's closely followed him. Ferrari sucked.

--

ALONSO - He is the best driver of the field out there. Not always the fastest, yet when it counts he get's results. By far the best complete package. He is mentally the toughest driver out there, and has the whole support of Ferrari and Massa (in Brazil). His run kind of reminds me of Kimi in 2007.

VETTEL - Fast, but fragile for errors. And boy he has no room for errors anymore. I think he will eff up one of the remaining races and thus not win the title.

WEBBER - He seems cool about leading the series, but I'd like to see into his brain. He knows this probably is his last chance to win the championship. He has a good lead though, but he would need one sterling drive to secure the title. I think he is targeting Brazil for that, the place were he won last year.

HAMILTON - Fastest driver of the field. He can do practically anything when he is on fire. Has had bad luck recently, it's bound to change IMO. Will be fast, could even win, especially if Macca's upgraded package works.

BUTTON - The least likely to win the title. He needs conditions that he can exploit and gain advantage from. His pace is not enough against the other four.

My percentages would be (BUTTON 3% - HAMILTON 14% - ALONSO 30% - WEBBER 30% - VETTEL (23%)

It's either Alonso or Webber.

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 12 Oct 2010, 00:08

IF Alonso win the title, the parallers to 2007 are VERY obvious.

Two drivers, one established, one young in absolutely best car in the grid against one established star in his first year for Ferrari.
Said two drivers are both favorites for the title, but internal bickering and bad blood strains the team from midway onwards, allowing the third guy to snatch the title.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 12 Oct 2010, 01:05

I might have been a vocal critic of Webber in the past, but right now, I don't care if he wins the title. I'm not suddenly juming behind him because there's a very real chance that he will, but because I've focused my dislike on Ferrari and Alonso. If Alonso wins the title by six points or less, it's really going to suck. The best season of racing that we've had in years will have been successfully undermined by team orders.

patrick · Post by **patrick** » 12 Oct 2010, 01:16

Webber has driven brilliantly this year but you could say in Hungary - although lapping fantastically to get the pit window, and Silverstone, he was lucky to get the wins. He needs pole positions if he is going to keep his lead at this late stage. But at no point has he shown any of it's getting to him, unlike his team-mate. Which is a huge advantage.

Alonso has definately shown that he's still got it, but he has made mistakes. Like Webber, he was also lucky to win Bahrain and maybe Singapore but he was on form in Germany (although some say undeserved) and Italy. Psychologically we know he can crack, especially when Hamilton is involved, but his anger is rarely directed at the team and he has the advantage of their full support. He needs to pray his engines last.
The constructors is probably out of reach for Ferrari at this stage though.

Vettel is in the strange position of being the fastest driver all year, who's championship it was to lose right from the start. He's made errors, crashed into people, arguably lost out on six wins - but he's still in the championship standings. It's still his to lose, because if any driver can score pole in all three races it'll be him. He certainly has the drive, but is another one who can crack like Alonso, only he's obsessed with Webber. He's also possibly lost the support of the team that he may have once had - not that they are favouring Webber, Mark has just forced them into impartiality with his driving.
The Constructors title seems more than likely.

Hamilton seems like he has out-driven the car all year. He wants to win, he deserves to win and I'm not a Hamilton fanboy but another championship would be a solid reminder of his undoubted talent. He's certainly got the speed in qualifying and often seems to put the car where it's not meant to be (sometimes to his detriment, monza). If any driver doesn't need pole position to win a race, it's him. But at this stage the DNFs and low scores are costing him, and the car seems fragile. Anything can happen, but it may be too late.

Jenson is arguably out of it - while his wins earlier in the season were brilliant, and he tried hard in Italy and Turkey (save fuel!) - he's never at any point looked like he was going to win the championship. He's the only one of the five not to have scored a pole position, and that says a lot about his qualifying in general. It may also be that McLaren start to back Hamilton for the title in a last ditch attempt (even though three points seperate them). He needs to be flawless in every race, but even then it'll be close.
The constructors is possible, they are stronger scorers than Ferrari at this stage.

All in all I'd say a Red Bull driver will probably take it. They certainly deserve the constructors title for producing such a brilliant car two years in a row. The McLaren duo have fought well all year but aside from the straight line speed the car hasn't been so good. Alonso has not been short of enthusiasm for the title but I do not think him and his team truly deserve it.
Sorry for the long post. What a great year!!

lostpin · Post by **lostpin** » 12 Oct 2010, 03:34

What seems interesting to me for the last couple of years is that we have Button and Webber, drivers that held records for all the wrong reasons - becoming champions, or at the verge of becoming one. It seems to me that the machinery is really the key here... I mean, really, could any F1 driver become a champion if he has the right technology to drive? Seems very likely...

BTW, my vote goes to Webber.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 12 Oct 2010, 05:37

I'm going with either Webber or Alonso for the reasons mentioned and elaborated on above but I feel that there are several other drivers who can very much decide the fate of the championship. In no given order:

Robert Kubica: I wanted to put Rosberg in exactly the same boat but the only thing that stopped me was the fact that the Renault is probably the better car. Robert has been on mega form this season and has been hugely unlucky not to win atleast 1 race this season (He could have won Monaco had he got a better start and once can only wonder if he would have won a few days ago as well) and he may as well be the straw that breaks McLaren's title challenge with the MP4-25's relative lack of pace as of late.

Nico Rosberg/Michael Schumacher: Rosberg has also been on mega form this season but the Mercedes is not up to scratch so it's unlikely he'll be much of a factor at Brazil or Aba Dabby but with a clean slate for everyone at Korea he may spring a surprise as could Schumacher. Speaking of Michael his performance last weekend showed that there may be some light at the end of the tunnel. He clearly had a pace advantage over Nico for the first time this season and once Rosberg's wheel said no more Michael immediatly found 2 seconds a lap (At one point he was the 2nd fastest car on track). If Michael keeps this form up then he'll be mixing it with the title contenders.

Felipe Massa: The eternal Ferrari No.2 who came closer to a world championship than Rubens Barrichello ever did at his time at Ferrari. He's been struggling with form as of late but he's here because he will score a podium at Brazil. Either that or take out a championship contender. If Massa can find form he'll also be one of the biggest advantages Fernando Alonso will have over the others.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 12 Oct 2010, 07:07

Eternal Nr. 2 Ferrari driver, whose engine in Hungary and whose pit crew in Singapore cost him the title in 2008?

Anyway...

Webber needs to pull out one pole-win run again. If he can do it, he only needs to stay on podium on the other two races. Second place should be the target in them, but he has new engines and that might give him some extra time in qualifying he needs.

Vettel in my eyes is bound to cause a first corner crash. And if he does that, he's going to lose it. He has the pace, but not the peace.

Hamilton is the other one who's bound to cause a first corner crash. I foresighted him and Button clashing together in Interlagos. Well, it might happen, but a Vettel-Hamilton crash is also on cards. Hamilton has had too many mistakes. Plus mechanical problems recently. (Hungary, and now Japan)

Alonso has to win in Interlagos. That has to be a good springboard for Abu-Dhabi, but seeing the red team's form last year, he needs to pray the car will work there too, or he might lose it. He might lead before Abu-Dhabi, but who knows he will after it.

Button needs luck and mixed weather. Korea might give this for him. Interlagos also. Abu-Dhabi no way. He needs to risk a high downforce run in Brazil if it will not rain, also some attrition in the front. Otherwise it's not going to happen.

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 12 Oct 2010, 07:28

Webber has been very good, but Vettel is going to be very hard to beat. If he has no more braindead moments, I think he has the raw pace advantage over Mark to seal the title.

Alonso should be strong in Korea and Brazil though, in particular. As for McLaren, I don't like their chances unless there is a spate of mechanical issues or errors from Red Bull and Alonso.

coops · Post by **coops** » 12 Oct 2010, 08:28

lostpin wrote:I mean, really, could any F1 driver become a champion if he has the right technology to drive? Seems very likely...

But theres only ever one champion and generally two cars capable of winning. I say 'generally' as I dont want to spark a 'team orders' or 'number one driver' debate. Irrespective of the incendiary decisions made on the pit wall, Felipe Massa could not have won this year. HH Frentzen couldnt beat Villeneuve, Coulthard couldnt beat anyone from Finland etc etc.

bighaydo · Post by **bighaydo** » 12 Oct 2010, 09:46

Dunno about you guys, but each race is making me a little nervous - anything can happen here! I just hope that we're not watching the Turkish GP played out over a full season...

We have Korea next, which having driven it on F1 2010 is an unknown quanity - the two long straights in the first sector will be manna for anything with straight-line mumbo, but the second half of the lap should suit anything that can change direction well. Given that the facilities may be somewhere less than 100% ready it'll be hard to pick a winner, seeing that the track surface may be a rush job to get the event underway...

Brazil can often throw up some surprises, but I can't pick between Red Bull and Ferrari just yet. As for Abu Dhabi, we've been there once so that could throw up some randoms too.

Now for the contenders:

Alonso: this guy knows how to win championships, but on both occasions in 2005-6 he was the hunted and not the hunter - it'll be interesting to see how that works with the roles reversed. Some of Alonso's performances haven't been as bullet-proof as they had been pre-2007 either, but he will have the full support and resources of Ferrari, and providing Massa can get somewhere near the top 10 he could be a real thorn in the side of RBR.

Vettel: has got the pace over his teammate, but not so sure he has the racing nous. If he has to pass anyone on a level playing field I'm not convinced he could do it. Still prone to brain snaps as well, so if the pressure is on I'm not so sure he can handle it. It might be going over old ground but I still suspect he's Red Bull's favoured driver - would RBR still be talking driver parity if the inter-team championship standings were the other way around? For someone that polled only 1.7% of the vote in the most popular driver stakes in the F1 Racing global survey at the beginning of the year, it makes you wonder why they bother with forcing him down our throats (although I can't wait to see what happens with the next poll, given the spoiled brat attitude, cliched winning quotes and constantly raised digit in parc ferme...)

Webber: my preferred champ (but he is by no means assured of it) has driven out of his skin all year, and for someone that was once the demon qualifier seems to have done a 180 and has brilliant racecraft now. He's been pretty sharp on overtakes this year as well (save for some of the blunders in Melbourne) and has gone lights-to-flag for a lot of his wins this year. He's also driving with his head and hasn't done anything truly silly since Valencia - something that the other contenders can't lay claim to. Plus, this would be the better story of the three main protaganists, having been in F1 since 2002 with the most appalling machinery and luck. I just feel he deserves it more (the others already have, or are very likely to). As Villeneuve put it though, it may not be his last chance - it's just his first!!

McLaren: have got a hard slog to get back in contention, so expecting nothing short of an extreme approach from Hamilton's side of the garage. The top three might want to watch out for him, because he should be there, or there-abouts. I don't think the contenders are going to get home on podium finishes alone.

If Japan was anything to go by, they'll all have a tough time from other teams getting in the mix: Kubica was brilliant all weekend in Japan - and both Renaults were electric off the spot (which could be dangerous for anyone that qualifies near Petrov!), Schumacher showed a decent turn of speed at Suzuka and Rosberg has been there all year, and Williams are beginning to scratch around too.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 12 Oct 2010, 12:36

Hate to say it, but I think Mclaren have too much to do now, barring something really strange happening like RB's taking each other out like in Turkey. It is more or less the classic 3 way, 2 teammates v one outsider like 1986 and 2007, where the outsider's teammate will be helping them even if they had title aspirations themselves at the start of the year.

I feel Webber must get his starts sorted, and Vettel must have three performances like Japan, but my money's on Alonso - I think he might well do it without Massa's help with 7 points between a win and a 2nd. And I have no problem at all with if he wins it but wouldn't have if Massa hadn't let him past at Hockenheim, you can see all sorts of instances of that in years gone by!

pablo_h · Post by **pablo_h** » 12 Oct 2010, 13:54

I can't say who will win, all I can say is that it's been an exciting season. The unknown is korea, Alonso should do pretty well there, and his recent resurgence causes much worry to the two RBR drivers.
I don't know if either of the RBR driver will be head after T3 even if they get pole. Either one of them needs to get 2nd and win in brazil to stave of alonso. If they do that, then they need good luck, strategy and to concede to the other in abu dhabi to win.
It's a lot different to KERS enabled ferrari and mclaren of last year, so hard to say how well they wil go at interlagos or abu dhabi. The new korea track and the competitiveness of the two RBR drivers make this season way harder to call than recent seasons as it really throws a spanner into the works

Henrique · Post by **Henrique** » 12 Oct 2010, 15:05

I share Eytl's opinion. I have all my faith in Webber and I'm rooting for him, but I believe that his bad luck and some behind-the-scenes play by Red Bull may give the title to Vettel.
I doubt this will be decided before the last race.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 12 Oct 2010, 15:17

Henrique wrote:I share Eytl's opinion. I have all my faith in Webber and I'm rooting for him, but I believe that his bad luck and some behind-the-scenes play by Red Bull may give the title to Vettel.
I doubt this will be decided before the last race.

I think we all want Webber to win the title, except DonTirri. Even me, a Button fan since 2000.

BabyG · Post by **BabyG** » 12 Oct 2010, 16:09

I have a feeling that a failed Ferrari engine may take the title away from Alonso, just as one handed the 2006 WDC to him. Is it posible for an engine to last the rest of the season?

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 12 Oct 2010, 18:53

BabyG wrote:I have a feeling that a failed Ferrari engine may take the title away from Alonso, just as one handed the 2006 WDC to him. Is it posible for an engine to last the rest of the season?

If Alonso drove around as fast as Lavaggi.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 12 Oct 2010, 19:34

redbulljack14 wrote:
I think we all want Webber to win the title. Even me, a Button fan since 2000.

I agree. If it can't be Jenson, I would rather see Webber win it this year. The pre-season and mid-season underdog.

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 12 Oct 2010, 20:47

redbulljack14 wrote:
Henrique wrote:I share Eytl's opinion. I have all my faith in Webber and I'm rooting for him, but I believe that his bad luck and some behind-the-scenes play by Red Bull may give the title to Vettel.
I doubt this will be decided before the last race.

I think we all want Webber to win the title, except DonTirri. Even me, a Button fan since 2000.

Well to be fair I've gone from "VETTEL VETTEL VETTEL!" to "As Long as It ain't Alonso or Hamilton"

Though I'd still favor Seb over Mark

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 12 Oct 2010, 21:07

dr-baker wrote:
redbulljack14 wrote:
I think we all want Webber to win the title. Even me, a Button fan since 2000.

I agree. If it can't be Jenson, I would rather see Webber win it this year. The pre-season and mid-season underdog.

Are we the only people on this forum who like Jenson Button? I thought he'd be more popular, especially seeing as he's the only person/team to ever be a 2-time ROTY.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 12 Oct 2010, 21:11

redbulljack14 wrote:
dr-baker wrote:
redbulljack14 wrote:
I think we all want Webber to win the title. Even me, a Button fan since 2000.

I agree. If it can't be Jenson, I would rather see Webber win it this year. The pre-season and mid-season underdog.

Are we the only people on this forum who like Jenson Button? I thought he'd be more popular, especially seeing as he's the only person/team to ever be a 2-time ROTY.

He's grown on me throughout the season, to be honest. After, what, 10 years as F1's playboy and a WDC where he didn't shine - he has been doing pretty well this year.

Post by **mario** » 12 Oct 2010, 21:21

redbulljack14 wrote:
BabyG wrote:I have a feeling that a failed Ferrari engine may take the title away from Alonso, just as one handed the 2006 WDC to him. Is it posible for an engine to last the rest of the season?

If Alonso drove around as fast as Lavaggi.

Ferrari reckon that each engine is good for at least 2,500km, so provided that Ferrari are careful with Alonso's engines, particularly his practise mileage, they should be able to make them last. That said, Toro Rosso complained last year that the performance of the Ferrari engines dropped off more noticeably at higher mileages, so Alonso will still be feeling the effects in terms of a slight loss of power. With the long straights at Korea, loosing a bit of engine performance is likely to hurt him, which will please Mclaren and Red Bull.

redbulljack14 wrote:
dr-baker wrote:
redbulljack14 wrote:
I think we all want Webber to win the title. Even me, a Button fan since 2000.

I agree. If it can't be Jenson, I would rather see Webber win it this year. The pre-season and mid-season underdog.

Are we the only people on this forum who like Jenson Button? I thought he'd be more popular, especially seeing as he's the only person/team to ever be a 2-time ROTY.

I don't think that Button is unpopular, just that Webber is more popular because he has had to struggle against adversity for longer then Button. After all, Webber drove some terribly unreliable cars in the past, and had to come back from a broken leg last year, and yet he has managed to hold off the charge of a younger team mate. Moreover, he has overturned what appeared to be a bias within the team towards Vettel (who is perhaps not quite as popular as once he was as a result), and turned it to his advantage (as Red Bull now have to back the championship leading driver, which is him).

Personally, I would be happy with either Webber or Button winning, as I like both of them for their character; Mark for his ability to overcome adversity, and Button for his good humoured nature. Perhaps the one I'd be less comfortable with would be Alonso, because there would always be the questions about the German GP and that radio call - it'd leave a sour taste in the mouth of many a fan, and a question mark against his achievements.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 12 Oct 2010, 21:55

It's because Mark Webber is in the rare fraternity of drivers to have scored points for Minardi. That's why we all love him.

patrick · Post by **patrick** » 12 Oct 2010, 22:45

CarlosFerreira wrote:
redbulljack14 wrote:
Are we the only people on this forum who like Jenson Button? I thought he'd be more popular, especially seeing as he's the only person/team to ever be a 2-time ROTY.

He's grown on me throughout the season, to be honest. After, what, 10 years as F1's playboy and a WDC where he didn't shine - he has been doing pretty well this year.

I think he's gained a lot of respect this year - nobody knew quite what to expect in such a team like McLaren, but he has driven to the best of his abilities and shown how level headed and intelligent he is. No, he was probably never going to beat Lewis but he's certainly handled himself and he's settled into the team perfectly. I hope he stays in Formula 1 for a long time, not just as a driver.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 13 Oct 2010, 09:18

patrick wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:
redbulljack14 wrote:
Are we the only people on this forum who like Jenson Button? I thought he'd be more popular, especially seeing as he's the only person/team to ever be a 2-time ROTY.

He's grown on me throughout the season, to be honest. After, what, 10 years as F1's playboy and a WDC where he didn't shine - he has been doing pretty well this year.

I think he's gained a lot of respect this year - nobody knew quite what to expect in such a team like McLaren, but he has driven to the best of his abilities and shown how level headed and intelligent he is. No, he was probably never going to beat Lewis but he's certainly handled himself and he's settled into the team perfectly. I hope he stays in Formula 1 for a long time, not just as a driver.

Jenson's already nearing 200 races, and he's only 30. I reckon he'll overtake Rubens Barrichello's record eventually.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 13 Oct 2010, 10:04

thehemogoblin wrote:It's because Mark Webber is in the rare fraternity of drivers to have scored points for Minardi. That's why we all love him.

Incidentally, I believe that the first driver to have won a race after being a Minardi driver is Fernando Alonso. Hard to imagine that he was once a Minardi man.

Warren Hughes · Post by **Warren Hughes** » 13 Oct 2010, 10:50

fjackdaw wrote:
thehemogoblin wrote:It's because Mark Webber is in the rare fraternity of drivers to have scored points for Minardi. That's why we all love him.

Incidentally, I believe that the first driver to have won a race after being a Minardi driver is Fernando Alonso. Hard to imagine that he was once a Minardi man.

That's not the case, I think it's Alessandro Nannini. Then Fisichella, then Alonso. After that I think there's only Trulli and Webber. I'm quite prepared to be corrected though.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 13 Oct 2010, 10:52

redbulljack14 wrote:Are we the only people on this forum who like Jenson Button? I thought he'd be more popular, especially seeing as he's the only person/team to ever be a 2-time ROTY.

Nope, I'm a JB fan, too. Have been since day one. Now that he's World Champion, I still back him, but I needed a new underdog and Petrov is that man.

But like I said - this year, I don't care who is World Champion provided it's not Alonso. And especially not Alonso by less than seven points.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 13 Oct 2010, 10:56

Warren Hughes wrote:
fjackdaw wrote:
thehemogoblin wrote:It's because Mark Webber is in the rare fraternity of drivers to have scored points for Minardi. That's why we all love him.

Incidentally, I believe that the first driver to have won a race after being a Minardi driver is Fernando Alonso. Hard to imagine that he was once a Minardi man.

That's not the case, I think it's Alessandro Nannini. Then Fisichella, then Alonso. After that I think there's only Trulli and Webber. I'm quite prepared to be corrected though.

I must have a Nannini blind spot, I had no idea he'd won a race. And you're right about Fisichella. I must be thinking of championships, not races...

madmark1974 · Post by **madmark1974** » 13 Oct 2010, 11:08

Nannini won Suzuka 1989 when Senna was DSQ'd, if I recall correctly. After his crash with Prost and subsequent illegal re-start (for whatever reason), Senna
came into the pits, got his car checked over then chased down and passed Nannini before the end. I don't think Senna was allowed to take the podium
though so at least Nannini got to stand on the top step (unlike Fisichella at Brazil when Raikkonen 'won') ...

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 13 Oct 2010, 11:10

I'm hoping for Webber. I would have loved to see Hamilton win a second title, but it looks like McLaren are just about finished for this season, unless either Lewis or Jenson manages to win all of the next 3 races.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 13 Oct 2010, 12:58

I don't know why but I always considered Webber more impressive at Minardi in 2002 than Alonso was in 2001. I know the Australia 5th place was lucky, but he was mixing it with Jaguars/BARs/Toyotas/Arrows and the like quite regularly. Whereas I can only recall Alonso doing it once (Japan).