The No Real Champions Alternative Championship

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 28 Sep 2010, 19:46

I've decided to remove every F1 driver champion from every single F1 race in history, and see who would be the most successful champions ever. There will be no removing of new champions as they win a title here, so we should get several multiple times world champions (this should be great news for Stirling Moss, though as I write this I still don't know it).

Another interesting thing is that when we get a new champion in our real world, this world will be altered. If ie. Webber wins this year's title, he will have to be removed from the 2002-2010 records, and that could change former champions. Coincidentally, if someone is a WC in this world (ie. very likely to be Vettel in 2009) he will lose his title(s) as soon as he wins the real one.

Early seasons had the same changes that in Bleu's thread:
- Data on fastest laps was mostly not complete, so no point is awarded.
- In shared drivers, if one driver is champion and other not, non-champion gets full points for that position.
- Dropped scores result as it was in that season.

1950
Four best results count:

Luigi Fagioli 32 (38) (3 wins)
Louis Rosier 19 (2 2nds)
Louis Chiron 8 (1 win)
Johhnie Persons 8 (1 win)
Dorino Serafini 8 (1 win)
Prince Bira Bhandubandh 8 (2 3rds)
Reg Parnell 6 (1 2nd)
Raymond Sommer 6 (1 2nd)
Bill Holland 6 (1 2nd)
Peter Whitehead 6 (1 2nd)
Bob Gerard 5 (1 4th)
Pierre Étancelin 4,5 (2 4ths)*
Yves Giraud-Cabantous 4 (1 3rd)
Mauri Rose 4 (1 3rd)
Luigi Villoresi 4 (1 3rd)
Robert Manzon 4 (1 3rd)
Johnny Claes 4 (2 5ths)
Toulo de Graffenried 4 (2 5ths)
Cecil Green 3 (1 4th)
Felice Bonetto 3 (1 4th)
Pierre Levegh 3 (1 4th)
Charles Pozzi 2 (1 5th)
Eugene Chaboud 1,5 (1 4th)*
Tony Bettenhausen 1 (1 5th)*
Joie Chitwood 1 (1 5th)*

1951
Four best results count:

José Froilán González 32 (38) (4 wins)
Luigi Villoresi 24 (28) (1 win)
Felice Bonetto 16 (1 2nd)
Piero Taruffi 15 (1 win)
Louis Rosier 9 (1 2nd)
Lee Wallard 8 (1 win)
Luigi Fagioli 8 (1 win)
Consalvo Sanesi 8 (1 2nd)
Toulo de Graffenried 8 (1 3rd)
Mike Nazaruk 6 (1 2nd)
Reg Parnell 6 (2 4ths)
Louis Chiron 5 (1 4th)
Yves Giraud-Cabantous 4 (1 3rd)
Andy Linden 3 (1 4th)
Rudi Fischer 3 (1 4th)
Andre Pilette 3 (1 4th)
Manuel Ayulo 2 (1 3rd)*
Jack McGrath 2 (1 3rd)*
Robby Ball 2 (1 5th)
Andre Simon 2 (1 5th)
Stirling Moss 2 (1 5th)
Johnny Claes 2 (1 5th)
Robert Manzo 2 (1 5th)
Philippe Étancelin 2 (1 5th)

*Shared drive

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 28 Sep 2010, 19:51

I like it!

Incidentally, by the time you've done another 50 of these (!) and got up to 2001, we'll probably know who the 2010 champ is, so you probably won't have to "re-write" any should Webber or Vettel win this year.

I'm thinking Rubens should grab a fair few in his Ferrari years, and might be the most successful driver in this format!

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 28 Sep 2010, 22:18

James1978 wrote:I like it!

Incidentally, by the time you've done another 50 of these (!) and got up to 2001, we'll probably know who the 2010 champ is, so you probably won't have to "re-write" any should Webber or Vettel win this year.

I'm thinking Rubens should grab a fair few in his Ferrari years, and might be the most successful driver in this format!

He'll get 2002 and 2004 definitely, 2000 and 2001 will go to DC and JPM will be 2003 champ.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 29 Sep 2010, 11:10

I reckon Rubens will probably benefit more in 2001 than DC will from the absence of Michael and Mika - DC rarely finished behind Mika but Rubens came 2nd and 3rd a lot when his teammate won. The Williamses were too unreliable that year I think.

Also we might have Stefan Johansson double-champ too (86 and 87), now that would be a slight to behold!

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 29 Sep 2010, 11:51

1952
Four best results count:

Piero Taruffi 30 (32) (3 wins)
Robert Manzon 20 (1 win)
Rudi Fischer 14 (1 win)
Luigi Villoresi 14 (1 win)
Jean Behra 10 (2 3rds)
Troy Ruttman 8 (1 win)
José Froilán González 8 (1 win)
Maurice Trintignant 8 (2 3rds)
Jim Rathmann 6 (1 2nd)
Dennis Poore 6 (1 2nd)
Paul Frere 6 (1 2nd)
Alan Brown 6 (1 3rd)
Sam Hanhs 4 (1 3rd)
Felice Bonetto 4 (1 3rd)
Eric Thompson 4 (1 3rd)
Ken Wharton 3 (1 4th)
Duane Carton 3 (1 4th)
Roger Laurent 3 (1 4th)
Peter Collins 3 (1 4th)
Andre Simon 3 (1 4th)
Reg Parnell 3 (1 4th)
Duncan Hamilton 3 (1 4th)
Art Cross 2 (1 5th)
Johnny Claes 2 (1 5th)
Roy Salvadori 2 (1 5th)
Fritz Riess 2 (1 5th)
Lance Macklin (1 5th)

1953
Five best results count:

Luigi Villoresi 30 (36) (3 wins)
José Froilán González 26 (2 wins)*
Felice Bonetto 26 (2 wins)*
Toulo de Graffenried 20 (2 2nds)
Maurice Trintignant 15 (1 2nd)
Bill Vukovich 8 (1 win)
Onofre Marimón 8 (1 2nd)
Art Cross 6 (1 2nd)
Hermann Lang 6 (1 2nd)
Louis Rosier 6 (2 4ths)
Ken Wharton 6 (2 4ths)
Óscar Gálvez 4 (1 3rd)
Stirling Moss 4 (1 3rd)
Roberto Mieres 4 (1 3rd)
Prince Bira Bhandubandh 4 (1 3rd)
Jean Behra 3 (1 4th)
Jacques Swaters 3 (1 4th)
Sam Hanks 2 (1 3rd)*
Duane Carter 2 (1 3rd)*
Jack McGrath 2 (1 5th)
Harry Schell 2 (1 5th)
Peter Collins 2 (1 5th)
Peter Whitehead 2 (1 5th)
Max de Terra 2 (1 5th)
Umberto Maglioli 2 (1 5th)
Fred Agabashian 1,5 (1 4th)*
Paul Russo 1,5 (1 4th)*
Sergio Mantovani 1,5 (1 4th)*
Luigi Musso 1,5 (1 4th)*

*shared drive

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 30 Sep 2010, 14:53

1954
Five best results count:

José Froilán González 36 (40) (5 wins)*
Maurice Trintignant 28 (1 win)
Karl Kling 18 (1 win)
Roberto Mieres 13 (1 2nd)
Hans Hermann 12 (2 2nds)
Bill Vukovich 8 (1 win)
Luigi Musso 8 (1 win)
Prince Bira Bhandubandh 8 (1 3rd)
Jimmy Bryan 6 (1 2nd)
Stirling Moss 6 (1 2nd)
Onofre Marimón 6 (1 2nd)
Robert Manzon 6 (1 2nd)
Sergio Mantovani 6 (2 4ths)
Umberto Maglioli 4 (1 win)*
Jack McGrath 4 (1 3rd)
Elie Bayol 4 (1 3rd)
André Pilette 3 (1 4th)
Luigi Villoresi 3 (1 4th)
Harry Schell 3 (1 4th)
Paco Godia 3 (1 4th)
Fred Wacker 3 (1 4th)
Mike Nazaruk 2 (1 5th)
Jean Behra 2 (1 5th)
Ken Wharton 2 (1 5th)
Piero Taruffi 2 (1 5th)
Peter Collins 2 (1 5th)
Louis Rosier 2 (1 5th)
Troy Ruttman 1,5 (1 4th)*
Duane Carter 1,5 (1 4th)*

José Froilán González becomes the first two-time champion.

1955
Four best results count:

Stirling Moss 25,33 (3 wins)
Maurice Trintignant 18 (1 win)*
Eugenio Castellotti 14 (2 2nds)*
Piero Taruffi 12 (1 win)
Luigi Musso 11 (1 2nd)
Roberto Mieres 9 (1 3rd)*
Jean Behra 9 (1 3rd)*
Bob Skeiwert 8 (1 win)
Karl Kling 7,33 (1 2nd)*
Paul Frere 6 (1 2nd)
Umberto Maglioli 5 (1 2nd)*
José Froilán González 4 (1 win)*
Jimmy Davies 4 (1 3rd)
Luigi Villoresi 4 (1 3rd)
Paul Russo 3 (1 2nd)*
Tony Bettenhausen 3 (1 2nd)*
Cesare Perdisa 3 (1 2nd)*
Johnny Thompson 3 (1 4th)
Carlos Menditeguy 3 (1 4th)
Louis Chiron 3 (1 4th)
Jacques Pollet 2 (1 5th)
Hans Hermann 1,33 (1 3rd)*
Bill Homeier 1 (1 5th)*
Walt Faulkner 1 (1 5th)*
Harry Schell 1 (1 5th)*

Stupid "sharing drives" thing gives a weird points score. But Moss finally wins a title!

*shared drive

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 30 Sep 2010, 20:40

I'm thinking ahead a long way again, but I reckon Martin Brundle could be a WDC under this format - he'll have an outside chance in 1992 as Benetton were such steady points-scorers (though it probably will be Patrese), but he should have a good chance in 1993. The year was dominated by Prost, Senna, Hill and Schumacher, then there were the next best all bunched up within a few points of each other, and I reckon he had more to gain than anyone else from the removal of the champions as he had lots of 5ths and 6ths which will become podiums!

That would be even funnier than Herbert winning 1995 under the "previous champions are eliminated" championship (and I stick by the fact Herbert will probably get 1995 in this too).

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 30 Sep 2010, 20:56

Also, guys like Coulthard, Alesi, Berger, Frenzen and Barrichello will most likely score a title or two. Also, Arnoux and Watson.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 01 Oct 2010, 14:41

1956
Five best results count:

Peter Collins 32 (2 wins)*
Stirling Moss 27,5 (2 wins)*
Jean Behra 26 (3 2nds)
Eugenio Castellotti 9 (1 2nd)
Luigi Musso 8 (1 win)
Pat Flaherty 8 (1 win)
Paco Godia 7 (1 3rd)
Paul Frere 6 (1 2nd)
Sam Hanks 6 (1 2nd)
Jack Fairman 6 (1 3rd)
Louis Rosier 5 (1 4th)
Ron Flockhart 4 (1 3rd)
Don Freeland 4 (1 3rd)
Alfonso de Portago 4 (1 3rd)
Luigi Villoresi 4 (2 5ths)
Cesare Perdisa 3,5 (1 3rd)*
Harry Schell 3 (1 4th)
Johhnie Parsons 3 (1 4th)
Horace Gould 3 (1 4th)
Olivier Gendebien 3 (1 4th)
Nano da Silva Ramos 2 (1 5th)
Dick Rathmann 2 (1 5th)
Gerino Gerini 2 (1 5th)
Chico Landi 2 (1 5th)
José Froilán González 1 (1 5th)*
Alberto Uría 1 (1 5th)*

The three top drivers had a chance at the final round, in Monza, Collins leading Behra on countback. Moss won, but Collins finished second and took the title.

7th in the championship is a terrific performance by my countryman Paco Godia. With Alonso de Portago also scoring 4 points, I really wonder whether Spain will ever have a better season under this system, in terms of a driver's points, a driver's final position or total points for the drivers of the country. There's no Alonso in this world... De la Rosa will outscore Godia in 2006, but no Spaniard will finish higher than 7th I guess.

1957
Five best results count:

Stirling Moss 24 (3 wins)*
Luigi Musso 20 (1 win)
Peter Collins 16,66 (1 win)*
Harry Schell 15,5 (1 2nd)
Tony Brooks 14 (1 win)
Masten Gregory 14 (1 win)
Jean Behra 13 (1 win)
Wolfgang von Trips 8,66 (1 2nd)*
Sam Hanks 8 (1 win)
Stuart Lewis-Evans 7 (1 3rd)
Carlos Menditeguy 6 (1 2nd)
Jim Rathmann 6 (1 2nd)
Maurice Trintignant 5 (1 3rd)*
Jimmy Bryan 4 (1 3rd)
Giorgio Scarlatti 3,5 (1 4th)*
Paul Russo 3 (1 4th)
Roy Salvadori 3 (1 4th)
Mike MacDowel 3 (1 4th)
Andy Linden 2 (1 5th)
Bob Gerard 2 (1 5th)
Alfonso de Portago 1,5 (1 4th)*
José Froilán González 1,5 (1 4th)*
Cesare Perdisa 0,66 (1 5th)*

Stirling Moss joins José Froilán González as two-time champions. It was an exciting final round, again at Monza. Musso was leading with 20 points, but Collins (16,66), Moss (16), Schell (14), Behra (13) and Brooks (12) still stood a chance. Ferrari were hoping that either Musso or Collins would take the crown, but the car was awful, their four drivers lining up 7th-10th in the grid. In the end, no points for Musso, and Moss won the race and the title.

*shared drive

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 02 Oct 2010, 09:52

Ferrim wrote: It was an exciting final round, again at Monza. Musso was leading with 20 points, but Collins (16,66), Moss (16), Schell (14), Behra (13) and Brooks (12) still stood a chance.

A 6 way title battle at the final race? Now THAT is Epic

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 02 Oct 2010, 18:34

That's a good'un. Let's see if we have Amon and Peterson winning! :lol:

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 02 Oct 2010, 20:46

'82 is gonna be interesting

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 02 Oct 2010, 22:13

Let's go with the next couple:

1958
Six best results count:

Stirling Moss 40 (5 wins)
Tony Brooks 26 (3 wins)
Harry Schell 22 (24) (1 2nd)
Roy Salvadori 21 (2 2nds)
Peter Collins 16 (1 win)
Stuart Lewis-Evans 16 (2 2nds)
Maurice Trintignant 12 (1 win)
Luigi Musso 12 (2 2nds)
Wolfgang von Trips 12 (1 2nd)
Jean Behra 12 (3 3rds)
Cliff Allison 11 (1 3rd)
Jo Bonnier 9 (1 2nd)
Jimmy Bryan 8 (1 win)
George Amick 6 (1 2nd)
Masten Gregory 6 (1 2nd)*
Johnny Boyd 4 (1 3rd)
Carroll Shelby 3 (1 2nd)*
Tony Bettenhausen 3 (1 4th)
Jim Rathmann 2 (1 5th)
Bruce McLaren 2 (1 5th)
Carlos Menditeguy 2 (1 5th)
Olivier Gendebien 2 (1 5th)
Gerino Gerini 2 (1 5th)

Stirling Moss becomes the first three-time champion, and a legend of Formula One history. He won every race he finished.

1959
Five best results count:

Tony Brooks 28 (3 wins)
Stirling Moss 24 (3 wins)
Bruce McLaren 22 (1 win)
Maurice Trintignant 22 (24) (2 2nds)
Dan Gurney 16 (2 2nds)
Masten Gregory 12 (2 2nds)
Jo Bonnier 11 (1 win)
Harry Schell 10 (1 3rd)
Olivier Gendebien 9 (1 2nd)
Rodger Ward 8 (1 win)
Innes Ireland 7 (1 3rd)
Jim Rathmann 6 (1 2nd)
Roy Salvadori 5 (1 4th)
Johnny Thomson 4 (1 3rd)
Cliff Allison 4 (1 3rd)
Tony Bettenhausen 3 (1 4th)
Jean Behra 3 (1 4th)
Ron Flockhart 3 (1 4th)
Paul Goldsmith 2 (1 5th)
Ian Burgess 2 (1 5th)
Wolfgang von Trips 2 (1 5th)

Brooks denies Moss a fourth title. They were even before the last race, where Moss took pole position in the superior Cooper, with Brooks leading Ferrari from the 4th position. But Moss' gearbox failed on the 5th lap.

*shared drive

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 03 Oct 2010, 17:59

WeirdKerr wrote:'82 is gonna be interesting

Pironi vs. Watson for the title.

I look much forward to 1993. Top 4 was in their own class: Prost, Senna, Hill and Schumacher and they all are gone.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 03 Oct 2010, 18:20

Think Pironi not completing the season will scupper him for '82. I'd ideally like '93 to go to someone who won't get another, Patrese was next after the 4 champions, but I'm hoping with most of his points being concentrated into a few mid-season races, it will go to the more consistent Brundle.

Otherwise I think the late 80s/early 90s will be dominated by Berger and Patrese, just as the late 90s/early 00s will be dominated by number 2 Ferrari/McLaren drivers (with Montoya in '03 a possible interloper)!

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 03 Oct 2010, 18:41

And another two:

1960
Six best results count. For the first time, a point is awarded for 6th instead of for the fastest lap.

Bruce McLaren 42 (46) (3 wins)
Innes Ireland 28 (2 wins)
Stirling Moss 22 (2 wins)
Wolfgang von Trips 19 (20) (1 2nd)
Olivier Gendebien 17 (1 win)
Richie Ginther 13 (1 win)
Tony Brooks 12 (3 3rds)
Jim Rathmann 8 (1 win)
Henry Taylor 8 (1 3rd)
Rodger Ward 6 (1 2nd)
Cliff Allison 6 (1 2nd)
Willy Mairesse 6 (1 2nd)
Jo Bonnier 6 (2 4ths)
Paul Goldsmith 4 (1 3rd)
Guilio Cabianca 4 (1 3rd)
Lucien Bianchi 4 (1 3rd)
Don Branson 3 (1 4th)
Carlos Menditeguy 3 (1 4th)
Ron Flockhart 3 (1 4th)
Johnny Thomson 2 (1 5th)
Hans Hermann 2 (1 5th)
Roy Salvadori 2 (1 5th)
Eddie Johnson 1 (1 6th)
Edgar Barth 1 (1 6th)
Carel Godin de Beaufort 1 (1 6th)
Bruce Halford 1 (1 6th)

Pretty much a walkover for Bruce McLaren, driving the vastly superior Cooper Car.

1961
Five best results count. No more Indianapolis, and the winner gets 9 points instead of 8; this scoring system will last for 3 decades.

Wolfgang von Trips 37 (3 wins)
Dan Gurney 27 (34) (1 win) -----> Scored in every single race and had to drop three results
Stirling Moss 25 (2 wins)
Richie Ginther 24 (3 2nds)
Bruce McLaren 18 (19) (1 2nd)
Innes Ireland 13 (1 win)
Jo Bonnier 12 (1 3rd)
Tony Brooks 10 (1 3rd)
Giancarlo Baghetti 9 (1 win)
Roy Salvadori 6 (1 4th)
Jackie Lewis 5 (1 3rd)
Olivier Gendebien 4 (1 3rd)
Maurice Trintignant 1 (1 6th)
Carel Godin de Beaufort 1 (1 6th)
Roger Penske 1 (1 6th) -----> Still a reject

Von Trips becomes the first posthumous champion.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 05 Oct 2010, 17:09

A couple more:

1962
Five best results count:

Bruce McLaren 48 (51) (4 wins)
Dan Gurney 26 (2 wins)
Tony Maggs 26 (27) (3 2nds)
Richie Ginther 17 (1 win)
Ricardo Rodríguez 13 (1 win)
Trevor Taylor 12 (1 win)
Carel Godin de Beaufort 11 (1 2nd)
Jo Bonnier 11 (1 3rd)
Giancarlo Baghetti 9 (1 2nd)
Masten Gregory 8 (2 2nds)
Willy Mairesse 7 (1 3rd)
Lorenzo Bandini 6 (1 2nd)
Innes Ireland 6 (1 3rd)
Maurice Trintignant 5 (1 3rd)
Neville Lederle 3 (1 4th)
Lucien Bianchi 3 (1 4th)
Jo Siffert 2 (1 5th)
Jackie Lewis 2 (2 6ths)
John Love 1 (1 6th)
John Campbell-Jones 1 (1 6th)
Roger Penske 1 (1 6th) ---> another 6th, but still a reject!

No one could hold a candle to McLaren during the second half of the season. He joins Moss and González as a multiple champion.

As Penske didn't race anymore after 1962, he remains a reject in this world, alongside other luminaries, such as Bernie Ecclestone. I genuinely thought he (Penske) could escape rejectdom here! In fact he got as close as 1.7s to escape (that was the gap between him and Ireland, 5th, in the race Penske scored his point this season)

1963
Six best results count:

Richie Ginther 54 (62) (6 wins)
Dan Gurney 34 (2 wins)
Bruce McLaren 27 (1 win)
Jo Bonnier 19 (21) (1 2nd)
Tony Maggs 20 (1 win)
Lorenzo Bandini 16 (2 2nds)
Jim Hall 13 (2 3rds)
Innes Ireland 11 (1 2nd)
Jo Siffert 8 (1 3rd)
Gerhard Mitter 6 (1 2nd)
Carel Godin de Beaufort 6 (1 3rd)
Chris Amon 6 (2 4ths)
Trevor Taylor 6 (1 4th)
Ludovico Scarfiotti 3 (1 4th)
Hap Sharp 3 (1 4th)
Peter Broeker 3 (1 4th)
Maurice Trintignant 2 (1 5th)
Mike Hailwood 2 (1 5th)

Perfect score for Richie Ginther! An unbelievably dominant season.

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 05 Oct 2010, 19:11

Is Dan Gurney this world's Moss? 3 champ silvers in a row.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 06 Oct 2010, 08:06

QuickYoda41 wrote:Is Dan Gurney this world's Moss? 3 champ silvers in a row.

With Clark, Hill, Stewart and Surtees all eliminated I wouldn't be surprised if Gurney wins the championship in 1965.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 06 Oct 2010, 11:08

QuickYoda41 wrote:Is Dan Gurney this world's Moss? 3 champ silvers in a row.

For the alternative championship I just did (previous champs eliminated, 2010 points sytem) Nick Heidfeld has been runner-up 4 times ('01, '02, '07 and '08) without winning it. He got loads more points than his teammate Kubica in '07 too but sadly for him they both trailed Hamilton by a long way, once Lewis was out of the way in '08, Kubica beat Heidfeld when it really mattered!

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 06 Oct 2010, 20:53

1964
Six best results count:

Lorenzo Bandini 40 (3 wins)
Richie Ginther 35 (42) (3 2nds)
Bruce McLaren 26 (2 wins)
Dan Gurney 22 (2 wins)
Peter Arundell 22 (1 win)
Jo Siffert 18 (1 win)
Bob Anderson 16 (1 2nd)
Mike Spence 12 (1 4th)
Jo Bonnier 7 (1 3rd)
Innes Ireland 7 (1 4th)
Chris Amon 6 (1 2nd)
Tony Maggs 6 (2 4ths)
Trevor Taylor 6 (2 4ths)
Mike Hailwood 6 (1 4th)
Maurice Trintignant 4 (1 3rd)
Walt Hansgen 4 (1 3rd)
Pedro Rodríguez 3 (1 4th)
Giancarlo Baghetti 3 (1 5th)

Peter Arundell was looking very good for the title until he had an accident in a F2 race and resulted injured. Ginther outscored Bandini, but had to drop THREE results. Winning the title without winning a race is very hard when you have to drop results.

1965
Six best results count:

Dan Gurney 48 (49) (4 wins)
Mike Spence 36 (2 wins)
Lorenzo Bandini 34 (36) (1 win)
Bruce McLaren 26 (1 win)
Jo Siffert 25 (1 win)
Richie Ginther 24 (1 win)
Jo Bonnier 15 (2 3rds)
Bob Anderson 5 (1 4th)
Pedro Rodríguez 4 (1 3rd)
Richard Attwood 4 (1 4th)
Paul Hawkins 4 (1 4th)
Frank Gardner 4 (1 4th)
Masten Gregory 3 (1 4th)
Innes Ireland 3 (1 4th)
Ronnie Bucknum 2 (1 5th)
Peter de Klerk 2 (1 5th)
Bob Boundurant 1 (1 6th)
Tony Maggs 1 (1 6th)

Clark, Hill, Surtees, Rindt, Brabham, Hulme and Stewart all having to be erased here! Mike Spence (who in our time line never won a race) had a 16-point lead over Gurney with 4 races to go, but he didn't even manage to qualify for several races and lost out in the end.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 07 Oct 2010, 12:29

Ferrim, would you be Ok if I sent you a private message with my predictions for the winners of the 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s? I want to see how many I can get right, but don't want to spoil for the people who don't want to see at least educated guesses in advance!

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 07 Oct 2010, 15:07

James1978 wrote:Ferrim, would you be Ok if I sent you a private message with my predictions for the winners of the 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s? I want to see how many I can get right, but don't want to spoil for the people who don't want to see at least educated guesses in advance!

For sure.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 09 Oct 2010, 09:05

1966
Five best results count:

Lorenzo Bandini 33 (3 wins)
Dan Gurney 18 (3 2nds)
Mike Parkes 15 (1 win)
Richie Ginther 15 (1 win)
Bruce McLaren 15 (1 win)
Mike Spence 13 (1 win)
Peter Arundell 12 (2 3rds)
Bob Bondurant 11 (1 2nd)
John Taylor 11 (2 3rds)
Ludovico Scarfiotti 9 (1 win)
Jo Siffert 9 (1 win)
Jo Bonnier 8 (2 3rds)
Chris Irwin 6 (1 2nd)
Bob Anderson 6 (2 4ths)
Guy Ligier 4 (2 5ths)
Ronnie Bucknum 2 (1 5th)
Chris Amon 2 (1 5th)
Chris Lawrence 1 (1 6th)

Top seven of the real season were World Champions! It was a veeeeeeeery strange season, a lot of races had very few finishers and in the end Lorenzo Bandini did enough to take his second championship. And yes, Guy Ligier unrejectified himself.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 09 Oct 2010, 09:10

And now a separate post for one of the most amazing seasons of this alternative championship:

1967
The "you drop a result from both halves of the championship" system begins. This year it was one result from the first six races, and another one from the last five races.

Chris Amon 52 (4 wins)
Mike Spence 33 (2 wins)
Pedro Rodríguez 32 (1 win)
Jo Siffert 21 (2 wins)
Dan Gurney 18 (2 wins)
Chris Irwin 16 (1 2nd)
Jo Bonnier 15 (2 2nds)
Bruce McLaren 9 (1 2nd)
Jean-Pierre Beltoise 8 (2 3rds)
Bob Anderson 7 (1 3rd)
John Love 6 (1 2nd)
Mike Parkes 6 (1 2nd)
Jacky Ickx 6 (1 2nd)
Guy Ligier 5 (1 3rd)
Ludovico Scarfiotti 4 (1 3rd)
Davis Hobbs 4 (1 4th)
Jonathan Williams 3 (1 4th)
Alan Rees 2 (1 5th)

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!!
I've not only managed to make Chris Amon a race winner, but a multiple race winner and a WORLD CHAMPION!!! I think it's the first alternative championship where this happens (correct me if I'm wrong). I know, it's easy when you look at the 1967 real results, where Amon finished 5th and the 4 guys in front of him were World Champions, but still...

Lorenzo Bandini dies in dramatic fashion at Monaco, as he becomes the first already crowned F1 World Champion driver who dies driving a F1 car during a F1 race (Ayrton Senna is the one and only to have died in these circumnstances in real life). And he was one of the only four to have won it more than once.

There was a Jo 1-2 (Siffert and Bonnier) at Watkins Glen. :lol:

And yes, Guy Ligier made it to the podium!

Post by **tommykl** » 09 Oct 2010, 09:23

If I remember correctly, Amon was champion with the knockout format.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 09 Oct 2010, 09:43

Didn't know it had been done, although I can't seem to find it...

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 10 Oct 2010, 00:39

Ferrim wrote:Didn't know it had been done, although I can't seem to find it...

In my "qualifying results-only" championship, I've made Amon champion in 1968 :mrgreen:

http://www.f1rejects.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3520

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 10 Oct 2010, 13:52

1968
One result dropped from each half of the championship (12 races in total).

Bruce McLaren 36 (3 wins)
Jacky Ickx 36 (2 wins)
Pedro Rodríguez 28 (4 2nds)
Jean-Pierre Beltoise 23 (1 win)
Jo Siffert 22 (1 win)
Chris Amon 17 (1 win)
Piers Courage 14 (3 3rds)
Richard Attwood 13 (1 win)
Dan Gurney 12 (1 win)
Vic Elford 11 (1 2nd)
Ludovico Scarfiotti 10 (1 2nd, 1 3rd)
Jackie Oliver 10 (1 2nd, 1 4th)
Brian Redman 9 (1 win)
Johnny Servoz-Gavin 9 (1 win)
Lucien Bianchi 8 (1 2nd)
Jo Bonnier 5 (1 4th)
Silvio Moser 3 (1 4th)
John Love 3 (1 4th)
Hubert Hahne 2 (1 5th)

The title was Ickx's until he managed to score 0 points in the final 3 races. McLaren took his 3rd title, equalling Moss, on countback, and driving his own car. A lot of people scored a few points and won races.

1969
One result dropped from the first six races, and another one from the last five.

Jacky Ickx 51 (4 wins)
Jean-Pierre Beltoise 47 (2 wins)
Bruce McLaren 44 (1 win)
Jo Siffert 33 (2 wins)
Piers Courage 26 (2 wins)
Pedro Rodríguez 12 (1 2nd)
Vic Elford 10 (2 4ths)
Jackie Oliver 7 (1 3rd)
Chris Amon 6 (1 2nd)
Silvio Moser 6 (1 3rd)
Johnny Servoz-Gavin 5 (1 4th)
Richard Attwood 4 (1 3rd)
Pete Lovely 3 (1 4th)
Sam Tingle 2 (1 5th)

Ickx vs. McLaren for the second time in a row, but this time Beltoise came very close to stealing the show. McLaren was leading with one race to go on 44 points, followed by Ickx (42) and Beltoise (41). But Ickx took pole and won the race, denying McLaren (who retired) a historical 4th championship. The opposite of last season, this year a few people shared most of the points and wins.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 11 Oct 2010, 14:34

1970
One result dropped from the first seven races, and another one from the last six.

Jacky Ickx 49 (5 wins)
Clay Regazzoni (2 wins)
Pedro Rodríguez 34 (2 wins)
Chris Amon 34 (1 win)
Henri Pescarolo 28 (1 win)
Jean-Pierre Beltoise 27 (1 win)
Rolf Stommelen 19 (1 2nd)
John Miles 11 (1 2nd)
François Cévert 11 (1 win)
Bruce McLaren 9 (1 win)
Ronnie Peterson 8 (1 3rd)
Reine Wisell 6 (1 2nd)
Johnny Servoz-Gavin 6 (1 2nd)
Jo Siffert 6 (1 3rd)
Dan Gurney 4 (1 3rd)
Ignazio Giunti 3 (1 4th)
John Love 3 (1 4th)
Jackie Oliver 3 (1 5th)
Peter Gethin 2 (1 5th)
Derek Bell 2 (1 win)
Andrea de Adamich 1 (1 6th)

Second title in a row for Ickx (first driver to do so since Moss).

Post by **tommykl** » 11 Oct 2010, 18:11

So far, I'm still the only one to make Howden Ganley win a race!

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 11 Oct 2010, 23:58

1971
One result dropped from the first six races, and another one from the last five.

Ronnie Peterson 45 (46) (3 wins)
François Cévert 36 (3 wins)
Jacky Ickx 28 (2 wins)
Jo Siffert 25 (1 win)
Clay Regazzoni 21 (1 win)
Reine Wisell 19 (1 2nd)
Chris Amon 15 (1 2nd)
Pedro Rodríguez 12 (1 win)
Henri Pescarolo 12 (1 2nd)
Peter Gethin 11 (1 win)
Rolf Stommelen 11 (2 3rds)
Tim Schenken 10 (1 2nd)
Jean-Pierre Beltoise 9 (2 4ths)
Howden Ganley 8 (1 4th)
Mark Donohue 6 (1 2nd)
Mike Hailwood 3 (1 4th)
Brian Redman 3 (1 4th)

Ronnie Peterson was the most consistent driver and took the title with relative ease. Too many zeros for Cévert to challenge him.

tommykl wrote:So far, I'm still the only one to make Howden Ganley win a race!

I won't either, because people like Ickx, Regazzoni or Peterson don't get eliminated here.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 12 Oct 2010, 00:08

And before going to bed, a brief résumé of the World Champions so far, and their achievements:

I've only included results worse than 3rd when I needed them as tie-breakers.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 12 Oct 2010, 20:35

1972
One result dropped from each half of the championship (12 races in total).

Peter Revson 47 (4 wins)
Jacky Ickx 41 (3 wins)
François Cévert 28 (2 wins)
Chris Amon 28 (1 win)
Ronnie Peterson 28 (2 2nds)
Mike Hailwood 24 (1 win)
Clay Regazzoni 24 (3 2nds)
Jean-Pierre Beltoise 14 (1 win)
Carlos Reutemann 10 (1 2nd)
Brian Redman 7 (1 3rd)
Carlos Pace 7 (1 3rd)
Howden Ganley 7 (2 4ths)
Andrea de Adamich 6 (1 3rd)
Tim Schenken 6 (1 3rd)
Arturo Merzario 4 (1 3rd)
Peter Gethin 4 (1 3rd)
Wilson Fittipaldi 4 (1 5th)
Patrick Depailler 3 (1 4th)
Dave Walker 2 (1 5th)
Henri Pescarolo 2 (2 6ths)
Helmut Marko 1 (1 6th)
Rolf Stommelen 1 (1 6th)
Mike Beuttler 1 (1 6th)
Reine Wisell 1 (1 6th)

The nephew of the owner of the legendary cosmetics firm Revlon takes the title. Ickx peaked too early, and lost a title that looked certain after his great win at the Nurburgring.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 12 Oct 2010, 23:01

I was way out with my guess for 1972, but maybe I shouldn't have started predicting till the 80s.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 13 Oct 2010, 19:03

1973
One result dropped from the first eight races, and another one from the last seven.

François Cévert 72 (5 wins)
Ronnie Peterson 60 (6 wins)
Peter Revson 55 (3 wins)
Jacky Ickx 29 (3 2nds)
Carlos Reutemann 29 (1 2nd)
Arturo Merzario 19 (1 win)
Clay Regazzoni 16 (1 3rd)
Jean-Pierre Beltoise 16 (2 3rds)
Carlos Pace 15 (1 2nd)
Andrea de Adamich 11 (1 2nd)
George Follmer 10 (1 2nd)
Jackie Oliver 8 (1 2nd)
Wilson Fittipaldi 7 (1 3rd)
Howden Ganley 7 (1 4th)
Mike Hailwood 5 (2 5ths)
Chris Amon 4 (1 3rd)
Mike Beuttler 4 (1 5th)
Gijs van Lennep 3 (1 4th)
Nanni Galli 2 (1 5th)
Henri Pescarolo 1 (1 6th)

Cévert wins the first "modern" championship (held over 15 races, while the previous record was 13) with 2 races to spare. He gets killed during practice at Watkins Glen, like Von Trips and Bandini before him. Peterson was good but couldn't finish any of the first five races of the season

And Merzario won a race.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 13 Oct 2010, 20:29

1974
One result dropped from the first eight races, and another one from the last seven.

Clay Regazzoni 83 (7 wins)
Carlos Reutemann 42 (3 wins, 1 2nd, 1 3rd, 2 5ths, 1 6th, 1 9th)
Ronnie Peterson 42 (3 wins, 1 2nd, 1 3rd, 2 5ths, 1 6th, 1 10th)
Patrick Depailler 32 (1 win)
Mike Hailwood 28 (2 2nds)
Jacky Ickx 22 (1 win)
John Watson 21 (1 2nd)
Carlos Pace 19 (1 2nd)
Jean-Pierre Beltoise 16 (2 2nds)
Jean-Pierre Jarier 13 (2 2nds)
Hans-Joachim Stuck 9 (1 2nd)
Arturo Merzario 8 (1 2nd)
Vittorio Brambilla 7 (2 4ths)
Guy Edwards 6 (1 3rd)
Tom Pryce 6 (1 4th)
Brian Redman 4 (1 3rd)
Davis Hobbs 4 (2 5ths)
Tom Belso 3 (1 4th)
Rikky von Opel 3 (1 5th)
Jochen Mass 2 (1 5th)
Tim Schenken 2 (1 5th)
Howden Ganley 1 (1 6th)
Helmuth Koinigg 1 (1 6th)
Chris Amon 1 (1 6th)

Domination. This word resumes Clay Regazzoni's 1974 campaign. By the 11th round he had already clinched the title, as he had 70 points and 2nd placed Mike Hailwood had… 28 (!)

Reutemann and Peterson tried to make me go mad with their sets of results, but they failed. :mrgreen:

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 13 Oct 2010, 20:46

I knew all those 2nd places in Tyrrell 1-2s behind Jackie Stewart would do Cevert proud in '73!!

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 13 Oct 2010, 20:52

BTW, has anyone ever got unrejectified scoring less than 3 points?

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 13 Oct 2010, 22:51

Ferrim wrote:BTW, has anyone ever got unrejectified scoring less than 3 points?

I imagine there could be some split points somewhere.