Grand Prix Rejects

So does the point only go to the fastest lap driver, or is it for "the guy who did the fastest lap of those drivers who happened to be in the top 10 in the very final standings after the race was over"?

I don't know which is more stupid as a system. I would definitely prefer the fastest lap going to anyone, just for the extra banter, and so that Williams can gather some last-lap points.

So it's been confirmed - and if the 11th place (or lower) person does the fastest lap, there is no point awarded ( to anyone).
Mostly it wont matter I suppose , but if someone loses a title because his rival's team mate stopped for hypersofts with 3 laps to go and took a point off them...people will be unhappy . And we'll have the nonsense of someone slowing down for a few laps, getting a nice empty track and then pushing for a quick one

yannicksamlad wrote:So it's been confirmed - and if the 11th place (or lower) person does the fastest lap, there is no point awarded ( to anyone).
Mostly it wont matter I suppose , but if someone loses a title because his rival's team mate stopped for hypersofts with 3 laps to go and took a point off them...people will be unhappy . And we'll have the nonsense of someone slowing down for a few laps, getting a nice empty track and then pushing for a quick one

Then again, there's also the possibility that a driver attempting to score the FL might stuff up spectacularly while pushing hard. The top teams probably don't consider it worth the risk, but some upper midfielders might take the gamble.

It isn't even three points like they actually thought about the relative value... this is what we're doing with the world's greatest drivers....

This is maybe more appropriate for the Rantbox, but I find it a bit tiresome that almost every season a major, either controversial or just downright unpopular decision gets made about critical rules about three days before Australia. Obviously timed just so they can't reverse it, even though 2016's qualifying debacle proves that enough hatred will get the rule changed anyway.

I get the feeling that the moment the fastest lap point is actually given, it will be controversial, and then will get the rule scrapped.

Rob Dylan wrote:This is maybe more appropriate for the Rantbox, but I find it a bit tiresome that almost every season a major, either controversial or just downright unpopular decision gets made about critical rules about three days before Australia. Obviously timed just so they can't reverse it, even though 2016's qualifying debacle proves that enough hatred will get the rule changed anyway.

I get the feeling that the moment the fastest lap point is actually given, it will be controversial, and then will get the rule scrapped.

I would like to see points given for the driver who achieves the SLOWEST laptime during the race. Now that would be fun to watch

Rob Dylan wrote:This is maybe more appropriate for the Rantbox, but I find it a bit tiresome that almost every season a major, either controversial or just downright unpopular decision gets made about critical rules about three days before Australia. Obviously timed just so they can't reverse it, even though 2016's qualifying debacle proves that enough hatred will get the rule changed anyway.

I get the feeling that the moment the fastest lap point is actually given, it will be controversial, and then will get the rule scrapped.

Completely agree that the tendency to meddle with rules just before the season starts is tiresome, and unnecessary, and makes it look pretty amateurish. And as Rob D says - it's an ambush really, to try to make sure it can't be undone even if there is valid criticism.

Hopefully it won't make much difference ( I personally don't think we should award a point for an insignificant part of the race and for performance which relies on so many largely irrelevant factors- tyres, traffic, DRS etc) but I don't suppose it'll be scrapped until someone loses/wins or almost loses/wins a title because of some other driver in a different team going for a quick lap , or because they put on new tyres a couple of times in Austria and France and effectively decided the title then..

Here's something I hope might be up your alley: we got Sergio Rinland in for a podcast, and he's got some pretty cool thoughts on how the tech regs should be rehashed...
https://www.spreaker.com/user/10600217/ ... sode_title

Aerond has some explaining to do: https://twitter.com/FARACINGTEAM

Also of note is the unfortunate name of the same team - FA Racing Team or FART for short...

Knowing Alonso this surely can’t be accidental.

FortiWinks wrote:Also of note is the unfortunate name of the same team - FA Racing Team or FART for short...

Knowing Alonso this surely can’t be accidental.

That's why I was calling out Aerond: it was the original name for his Alt-F1 team.

Simtek wrote:

FortiWinks wrote:Also of note is the unfortunate name of the same team - FA Racing Team or FART for short...

Knowing Alonso this surely can’t be accidental.

That's why I was calling out Aerond: it was the original name for his Alt-F1 team.

Ah I didn’t see your post initially to be honest! Sorry about that, I’ll try to learn to read for next time then...

FortiWinks wrote:

Simtek wrote:

FortiWinks wrote:Also of note is the unfortunate name of the same team - FA Racing Team or FART for short...

Knowing Alonso this surely can’t be accidental.

That's why I was calling out Aerond: it was the original name for his Alt-F1 team.

Ah I didn’t see your post initially to be honest! Sorry about that, I’ll try to learn to read for next time then...

Don't forget there was Foxdale Auto Racing Team in F1RWRS too...

dr-baker wrote:Don't forget there was Foxdale Auto Racing Team in F1RWRS too...

Weren’t those cars too busy barbecuing themselves though?

Simtek wrote:

FortiWinks wrote:Also of note is the unfortunate name of the same team - FA Racing Team or FART for short...

Knowing Alonso this surely can’t be accidental.

That's why I was calling out Aerond: it was the original name for his Alt-F1 team.

And I rejected it because surely someone would notice that unfortunate abbreviation before the ball gets rolling ... I really need to stop having so much faith in people. Also ... Alt-F1 Did It First™

FortiWinks wrote:

dr-baker wrote:Don't forget there was Foxdale Auto Racing Team in F1RWRS too...

Weren’t those cars too busy barbecuing themselves though?

There are links between FARTs and fires. https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/2016 ... /93105910/

Sup

dinizintheoven wrote:

This looks like a great opportunity to start another immature puns thread like...

"Ex F1 champ releases FART"

Why do Formula 1.5 complaints only seem to have cropped up in the Turbo Hybrid era?

I'm currently (slowly) making my way through every F1 season from 1989 to present, and what has struck me is that it is a rare thing to have a season where there are more than two teams (and sometimes it's only one team!) who are able to challenge for race wins on pure merit. Sure, there were some shock results, but that was more down to the poor reliability than a midfield team taking a big leap forward.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of every season being like 2012, but I relish that we have Mercedes, Ferrari, and sometimes Red Bull able to contest for race wins on pure race pace.

Perhaps it's rose-tinted glasses? I enjoy the races from this era far more than the early 90s.

AustralianStig wrote:Why do Formula 1.5 complaints only seem to have cropped up in the Turbo Hybrid era?

I'm currently (slowly) making my way through every F1 season from 1989 to present, and what has struck me is that it is a rare thing to have a season where there are more than two teams (and sometimes it's only one team!) who are able to challenge for race wins on pure merit. Sure, there were some shock results, but that was more down to the poor reliability than a midfield team taking a big leap forward.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of every season being like 2012, but I relish that we have Mercedes, Ferrari, and sometimes Red Bull able to contest for race wins on pure race pace.

Perhaps it's rose-tinted glasses? I enjoy the races from this era far more than the early 90s.

I'm completely in agreement. The midfield could still be closer to the front three teams, but it's not as bad as last year, and Renault/McLaren/Alfa could still improve.

We do need more of those days with some pleasantly surprising results, in the vein of something from 1997 or 2012, but given the negativity from some so-called fans of the sport, you'd think F1 ought to be exactly as it was in early/mid 2000s or earlier still. Because that will solve all of the sport's problems, won't it?

On an unrelated note, it has now been 25 years and 2 days since the death of Roland Ratzenberger. Here is footage that I had been looking for for a long time, but which Twitter offered up to me a few weeks ago, where Roland meets his near namesake, Roland Rat: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j6o-aCZSyi8

dr-baker wrote:On an unrelated note, it has now been 25 years and 2 days since the death of Roland Ratzenberger. Here is footage that I had been looking for for a long time, but which Twitter offered up to me a few weeks ago, where Roland meets his near namesake, Roland Rat: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j6o-aCZSyi8

Roland died on 30th April. Not quite 25 years ago.

Gertrand Bachot wrote:

dr-baker wrote:On an unrelated note, it has now been 25 years and 2 days since the death of Roland Ratzenberger. Here is footage that I had been looking for for a long time, but which Twitter offered up to me a few weeks ago, where Roland meets his near namesake, Roland Rat: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j6o-aCZSyi8

Roland died on 30th April. Not quite 25 years ago.

One month early. My apologies.

AustralianStig wrote:Why do Formula 1.5 complaints only seem to have cropped up in the Turbo Hybrid era?

I'm currently (slowly) making my way through every F1 season from 1989 to present, and what has struck me is that it is a rare thing to have a season where there are more than two teams (and sometimes it's only one team!) who are able to challenge for race wins on pure merit. Sure, there were some shock results, but that was more down to the poor reliability than a midfield team taking a big leap forward.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of every season being like 2012, but I relish that we have Mercedes, Ferrari, and sometimes Red Bull able to contest for race wins on pure race pace.

Perhaps it's rose-tinted glasses? I enjoy the races from this era far more than the early 90s.

I think it's the reliability factor, at least with unreliability you'd get smaller teams picking up results every now and again. 15th and 16th is about as good as it can get for Williams at the moment.

Then again, ultra reliability has been my least favourite thing about Formula 1 for a few years.

Get ready for more Will Smith in upcoming years

The "mass appeal of celebrities"? Dis gonna be good

http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/264 ... e-weekends

Absolutely incredible. IIDOTY.

DonTirri wrote:I'm calling it now. Unless something REALLY drastic happens and SOON, F1 won't see the next decade.

From 2014

CoopsII wrote:

DonTirri wrote:I'm calling it now. Unless something REALLY drastic happens and SOON, F1 won't see the next decade.

From 2014

But it could be argued that Liberty buying the sport and deposing Bernie E WAS something drastic and soon?

Circuit de Catalunya is seemingly on the verge of being dropped for 2020 in favour of Zandvoort to cash in on Verstappen mania.

Now, we all love having the old tracks on the calendar and Zandvoort, even as it exists today, is a cool track - in an F3 car, or a GT car. In F1 though? Not sure. It's apparently no shorter than a few circuits already on the calendar (which tbh surprised me, it feels like a club track to virtually drive rather than something that can be FIA grade 1 in it's current configuration), but it's narrow and fairly tight. Not sure it's going to be great.

Also, it has tiny runoff areas around most of the track, so they'll have to be extended, and the pits and facilities need an upgrade. I wonder how they're to do that in a year?

Enforcer wrote:Circuit de Catalunya is seemingly on the verge of being dropped for 2020 in favour of Zandvoort to cash in on Verstappen mania.

Now, we all love having the old tracks on the calendar and Zandvoort, even as it exists today, is a cool track - in an F3 car, or a GT car. In F1 though? Not sure. It's apparently no shorter than a few circuits already on the calendar (which tbh surprised me, it feels like a club track to virtually drive rather than something that can be FIA grade 1 in it's current configuration), but it's narrow and fairly tight. Not sure it's going to be great.

Also, it has tiny runoff areas around most of the track, so they'll have to be extended, and the pits and facilities need an upgrade. I wonder how they're to do that in a year?

They won't, the owner of Zandvoort makes lot of promises but the truth is that he has no investors ready whatsoever. Liberty really did a poor job in this decision since Assen was ready and had the finances to improve even further.... And is arguably a better race track for spectators.

Enforcer wrote:Circuit de Catalunya is seemingly on the verge of being dropped for 2020 in favour of Zandvoort to cash in on Verstappen mania.

Now, we all love having the old tracks on the calendar and Zandvoort, even as it exists today, is a cool track - in an F3 car, or a GT car. In F1 though? Not sure. It's apparently no shorter than a few circuits already on the calendar (which tbh surprised me, it feels like a club track to virtually drive rather than something that can be FIA grade 1 in it's current configuration), but it's narrow and fairly tight. Not sure it's going to be great.

Also, it has tiny runoff areas around most of the track, so they'll have to be extended, and the pits and facilities need an upgrade. I wonder how they're to do that in a year?

From what I can gather Zandvoort would need renovation to become FIA Grade 1, while Assen is already Grade 1. The short DRS zone may be a cause for worry, though we can just have 1 track that doesn't have a major DRS area for once

Perhaps a street circuit could be on the cards too, but I'm not sure which city would have it...

Assen is Grade 2, not Grade 1: https://www.fia.com/file/70006/download?token=hDk9-FSg

Oddly enough, the Wikipedia page on the subject says it's Grade 1 despite including the same pdf in its references...

But yes, it is strange that Liberty have been so dead set on Zandvoort over Assen this whole time, despite the latter reportedly having actual funding in place already.

Well either Liberty want to have it for the name and history, even though Zandvoort's current configuration only shares the old track as far Scheivlak, a corner which they'll probably have to butcher along with Tarzanbocht to make FIA Grade 1 status anyway, (unless they can buy more land for run off), or Zandvoort's owner/promoter is really, really good.

What is the story with the surrounding land? It's just sand dune, as far as I can tell. So is it in public ownership? If so, is it a public park/amenity that isn't going to be easily given over to extend a race track?

The wave of early 2000s F1 nostalgia is somehow making me feel old knowing that I'm about the same age as these crazy people, and scared that I might soon be yearning for the days when I started watching F1 at the other end of the decade.

I miss those Red Bull front row lockouts...

Enforcer wrote:Well either Liberty want to have it for the name and history, even though Zandvoort's current configuration only shares the old track as far Scheivlak, a corner which they'll probably have to butcher along with Tarzanbocht to make FIA Grade 1 status anyway, (unless they can buy more land for run off), or Zandvoort's owner/promoter is really, really good.

What is the story with the surrounding land? It's just sand dune, as far as I can tell. So is it in public ownership? If so, is it a public park/amenity that isn't going to be easily given over to extend a race track?

On the side where the old part used to be is camping grounds, doing anything on that side will be impossible.
The promotor isn't very good either, though he has ties with royalty, he doesn't actually got the money and is merely trying to pressure the local governments to fund the whole thing. (the national government already said no). He's mostly active in the real estate business. Doesn't have an actual plan to find investors.
Assen had been acknowlegded to be F1 worthy by the FIa with only minor modifications which are realistic. Altough drivers love Zandvoort, the track is super dull for spectators (will be similar to the Hungaroring), difficult to reach (whilst Assen is a lot easier to reach) In its current State, Zandvoort is about as F1-worthy as Zolder. Pitlane facilities, fan facilities and accessability are very poor.

I think it's a combination of Liberty Media falling for the Zandvoort Scam (because in my opninion this is nothing but a scam) and not having properly investigated Assen. It doesn't help that the sporting body also protected Zandvoort as 'the only option'. Which sucks for Assen because they'd be able to actually pull it off without making insane financial losses. It just shows F1 is absolutely not safe from overambitious unrealistic ideas.

If they somehow do pull it of to do all the upgrades, the circuit will go bankrupt sooner than later.

Is it my impression, or is one of the big factors contributing to the overall negativity towards this season not just the racing in general, but the way Mercedes have approached the season?

Ever since pre-season testing, they've downplayed their chances and continue to put a mask of "underdogs" fighting against the evil that is Ferrari, who have the best car and best engine according to them, when it's clear to everyone that ain't the case.

The multiples comments carried out by Wolff or Hamilton across the year have really been nagging me, and the fact that multiples news outlets continue to pick up on them is really bothering me, since it creates a fake expectancy regarding the state of F1 of today.

This wrote:

Enforcer wrote:Well either Liberty want to have it for the name and history, even though Zandvoort's current configuration only shares the old track as far Scheivlak, a corner which they'll probably have to butcher along with Tarzanbocht to make FIA Grade 1 status anyway, (unless they can buy more land for run off), or Zandvoort's owner/promoter is really, really good.

What is the story with the surrounding land? It's just sand dune, as far as I can tell. So is it in public ownership? If so, is it a public park/amenity that isn't going to be easily given over to extend a race track?

On the side where the old part used to be is camping grounds, doing anything on that side will be impossible.
The promotor isn't very good either, though he has ties with royalty, he doesn't actually got the money and is merely trying to pressure the local governments to fund the whole thing. (the national government already said no). He's mostly active in the real estate business. Doesn't have an actual plan to find investors.
Assen had been acknowlegded to be F1 worthy by the FIa with only minor modifications which are realistic. Altough drivers love Zandvoort, the track is super dull for spectators (will be similar to the Hungaroring), difficult to reach (whilst Assen is a lot easier to reach) In its current State, Zandvoort is about as F1-worthy as Zolder. Pitlane facilities, fan facilities and accessability are very poor.

I think it's a combination of Liberty Media falling for the Zandvoort Scam (because in my opninion this is nothing but a scam) and not having properly investigated Assen. It doesn't help that the sporting body also protected Zandvoort as 'the only option'. Which sucks for Assen because they'd be able to actually pull it off without making insane financial losses. It just shows F1 is absolutely not safe from overambitious unrealistic ideas.

If they somehow do pull it of to do all the upgrades, the circuit will go bankrupt sooner than later.

My friend in Zandvoort is preparing for the whole week of the Dutch GP to be a shutdown because of how a Dutch GP would clog up all the trains and roads leading into town. Ironically, although Zandvoort is much more populated than Assen the lack of modern transportation infrastructure means that Zandvoort is harder to get people into.

Miguel98 wrote:Is it my impression, or is one of the big factors contributing to the overall negativity towards this season not just the racing in general, but the way Mercedes have approached the season?

Ever since pre-season testing, they've downplayed their chances and continue to put a mask of "underdogs" fighting against the evil that is Ferrari, who have the best car and best engine according to them, when it's clear to everyone that ain't the case.

The multiples comments carried out by Wolff or Hamilton across the year have really been nagging me, and the fact that multiples news outlets continue to pick up on them is really bothering me, since it creates a fake expectancy regarding the state of F1 of today.

Yeah, I mean it's the same every year, isn't it. And that's actually the problem. Every year every team bar Ferrari plays down their chances, including Mercedes, but when Mercedes are winning for the sixth year in a row - and not just winning, but destroying every single one of their competitors - it gets very very tiresome for them to go "oh, it wasn't easy, Ferrari really had the advantage over us and we pulled a result out of the bag."

I had the same issue in the beginning of the decade. Think 2011 and 2013. Vettel was leading by 30s in every single race, yet every single race the team would say "oh wow we've got major problems" mid-race which would end up being absolutely nothing. Regardless of all their complaints about how unreliable their car was, Vettel's car broke down once in a race in 2013, and never (from memory) in 2011. So press releases for the media to make themselves seem 'humble' just alienate all the F1 fans who want nothing more than for them to shut up.

How long until we see sub-60 second laps in Austria? Or will regulations ensure that won't happen?

So... When will Red Bull push Gasly out the door? and Who will replace him (If it's for this season I would probably say Kvyat).